Obamarama

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Is Barack Obama at the zenith of his popularity? Has he benefited from being unknown? In other words, have people seen what they want to see in the emptiness? We'll learn soon enough.

In the meantime, here is some food for thought about Obamamania.

What the Cult of Obama doesn't realize is that he's a politician. Not a brave one taking risky positions like Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich, but a mainstream one. He has not been firing up the Senate with stirring Cross-of-Gold-type speeches to end the war. He's a politician so soft and safe, Oprah likes him. There's talk about his charisma and good looks, but I know a nerd when I see one. The dude is Urkel with a better tailor. [LA Times]

The rise of democratic frontrunner Barack Obama signifies an alarming victory of style over substance. Not unlike the dot-com hype, his campaign promises more than he can deliver. The one thing his voters can count on is that they will ultimately be disappointed. [Der Spiegel]

The contrast between his broad rhetoric and his narrow agenda is stark, and yet the media -- preoccupied with the political "horse race" -- have treated his invocation of "change" as a serious idea rather than a shallow campaign slogan. He seems to have hypnotized much of the media and the public with his eloquence and the symbolism of his life story. The result is a mass delusion that Obama is forthrightly engaging the nation's major problems when, so far, he isn't. [Washington Post]

But if you listen to Mr Obama's speeches, it is not the lack of substance but the quality of it that ought to worry Americans. His victory speech after his latest primary win in Wisconsin this week was a case in point.

There was no shortage of proposals. He plans large increases in government spending on health and education. He wants to tax the rich more to pay for it. He is against companies using the opportunities of free markets to restructure their operations in the US. He is vehemently protectionist. He continues to insist, despite the growing evidence that this left-wing nostrum would be lunacy, that the US must pull its troops out of Iraq with the utmost dispatch.

While he speaks of the need for Americans to move beyond partisanship ("We are not blue states or red states, but the United States" is a campaign meme), when you cut through the verbiage there is nothing to suggest he believes anything that is seriously at odds with the far Left of his party. If you think about it for a second, it's not really an accident that he has been endorsed by the likes of Ted Kennedy and Jesse Jackson. [The Times]

"Yes we can to justice and equality. Yes we can to opportunity and prosperity. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can."

This sounds to me like a man doing an impression of what he thinks a great speech might be like. It is the kind of empty exhortation that usually gives politicians a bad name. Peter Sellers, a British comedian of the 1960s, caught the genre nicely in a parody speech: "Let us assume a bold thrust and go forward together. Let us carry the fight against ignorance to the four corners of the earth, because it is a fight that concerns us all." Mr Obama might easily give a speech like that - although he would probably strip out some of the detail.

Exhortation can make for thrilling rhetoric. But the difference between Mr Obama and some of the great speakers he is sometimes compared with is that Churchill, Kennedy and Martin Luther King were genuinely challenging their audiences. Surrendering might have seemed rational in Britain in 1940. King's "I have a dream" speech was made at a time when racial segregation was still a reality in the southern US. When King coined the phrase the "fierce urgency of now" (borrowed with acknowledgement by Mr Obama), he was explaining why he had come out against the Vietnam war. Even JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" demanded something from the audience.

Mr Obama is much vaguer and much less bold. He has taken the occasional risk. He likes to remind audiences that he called for higher fuel efficiency standards before an audience of Detroit carmakers.

But, in general, his campaign is relying on some of the most clichéd and least challenging slogans in the American political lexicon: unity not division; the future not the past; change not stagnation; an end to "business as usual"; lobbyists are bad, the people are good. Or as the man himself puts it: "We are choosing hope over fear. We're choosing unity over division, and sending a powerful message that change is coming to America." [Financial Times]

Do you remember chlorophyll? Then you're showing your age. For chlorophyll was all the rage back at the dawn of the '50s when Lever Brothers, in its finite wisdom, put on the market a bright green, mint-flavored dentifrice that promised not only to improve the condition of your teeth, but cure bad breath as well. How did the emerald goop work such wonders? Hard to say, as chlorophyll is nothing more than the green pigment found in most plants. Sure, it looked like it had something special to offer. But at the end of the day, chlorophyll toothpaste succeeded in making teeth green (if brushing was carelessly executed) and nothing more. Its market history was intense but brief. And so may well be the marketing history of Barack Obama - if American voters get wise to him.

I say marketing history rather than political campaign because that's precisely how the first-term senator is being sold to the American people - not as a person but as a product. And as "product placement" goes, you can't argue with the success of this one. Why, it seems like only yesterday former First Lady and the current senator from New York, Hillary Clinton, had the Democratic presidential nomination all wrapped up and tied with a neat litle bow. But over the past few months, that's no longer the case, with Obama winning primary after primary. And the Illinois senator's success is clearly the result of an element every bit as powerful today as chlorophyll was in the '50s - Melanin. What's that, you ask? Simply the primary determinant of human skin color that also exists in the plant and animal kingdoms where it serves as a pigmentation.

Like chlorophyll. [LA City Beat]

And just to prove that I can link to more than the latest example of a journalist or pundit jumping off the Obama bandwagon, David Ignatius has written an interesting column that argues that Obama's inexperience is a good thing.

KenTX and John Derbyshire are on the same wavelength:

Memo to the DNC: You are fielding two lackluster candidates here. What's more, they will get weaker, as the Clinton-Obama scrapping knocks coats of paint from off both of them between now and August. No doubt John McCain will trip over his tongue a time or two, but he won't be doing any scrapping. Doesn't need to. Within his party, he's a winner. Everybody likes a winner. Are you guys worried yet? You should be.

[. . .]

The Democratic party has two lame candidates, without a dime's worth of executive experience between them. Competing on the campaign trail, by August each will have thoroughly alienated the other's supporters, and turned off the voting public. Meanwhile, in the wings, there is this guy who was vice president for eight years, who ran a campaign for the presidency and actually won it! (well, according to party lore). He looks presidential, with a fine strapping physique and a big square jaw. You're hankering after moral authority? How about a Nobel Peace Prize, for crying out loud!!

But - does he want it? Does Al Gore want to be the president of the United States?

Are you kidding me? [National Review]

Last but not least, a video:

< Race Man | I finally got it, One has to post in the Sept. 11 Forum! >
 Display:
Give it up for him. It's a well written post, good research, even a valid point or two. Good stuff. Even if he didn't have to travel from the Real Clear Politics site for most of it.

Some of the points, I have issues/disagree:

Let's start easy. Read the following and tell me which politician in the last two hundred plus years does NOT fit the words...

"...his campaign promises more than he can deliver. The one thing his voters can count on is that they will ultimately be disappointed.

Yeah. It's called "politics." Applies to either and all parties. If you're naive enough to think that a candidate can deliver on all their promises (assuming, of course, that you aren't a big contributor), I have a crumbling bridge in Minnesota to sell you.


"...but I know a nerd when I see one"

The writer says this like it's a BAD thing. Over the last four administrations we've had a doddering old fool, a spook, a closet conservative, and a deranged frat boy. I have NO problem with giving the office to a "nerd." In fact, I think it is long past time to let someone with intelligence hold the office.

"The Democratic party has two lame candidates..."

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll believe it come November. Two "lame" candidates as opposed to a Genghis Khan wannabe and a Nehemiah Scudder clone. I'll take the nerd and the bitch any day.

Oh, and I'll wait patiently for a link delineating McCain's "dime's worth of executive experience" since the writer has a quibble in that area with the Dems. Good thing I'm very patient. I may have to wait until he HAS some.

"We are choosing hope over fear. We're choosing unity over division, and sending a powerful message that change is coming to America."

The Financial Times writer has a problem with these words. He doesn't like hope, unity, or the premise that America CAN change. Why does the Financial Times hate America?

Only the most deeply embedded head-in-the-sand neo-con supporter could have penned "He continues to insist, despite the growing evidence that this left-wing nostrum would be lunacy, that the US must pull its troops out of Iraq with the utmost dispatch." "Growing evidence?" What would that be? The Turks invasion of the North? The Shi'a leader in the south calling for a separate section of Iraq for Shiites? The Sunnis who were happy to take our money not to target Americans - until we started killing them again, which made them decide that maybe the money wasn't worth it? 4 million refugees wanting to return home?

The only "lunacy" here is the conservative refusal to accept that they got a bitch slapping from a ragtag group of poorly armed freedom fighters trying to remove the invaders from their homeland.

I'm glad Twba posted the link to the video, since the embedded one doesn't work (not a slam, I haven't been able to figure out how to get a vid to post, either). The speaker, Dan Ariely, almost nails it, but goes off the track by looking only at the flowing surface and not examining the current. "How can it be that people expect so much?" he asks. "...the expectations are so incredibly high, and they are so incredibly high because they're based on so little information."

Or...they're so incredibly high because the bar has been lowered so far over the last 25 years, but especially the last seven years, that a simple message of hope and change is more than we have come to expect.

But I must remember that I am not an "Obamamaniac." He was not my first or second choice. He's not nearly Liberal enough for me.

But he's the best of the bunch.

by MedfordTim on 03/01/2008 09:45:03 AM EST


 

"Or...they're so incredibly high because the bar has been lowered so far over the last 25 years, but especially the last seven years, that a simple message of hope and change is more than we have come to expect."

Well said.  For me it's a relief to find a candidate who speaks with thoughtfulness and maturity and can articulate his ideas fluidly.  Those three things alone constitute a sea-change in comparison with the current president and most of the other candidates.

 

I think this business of minimalizing Obama because he excites people is small and misguided, especially after the debacle of Kerry in 2004, who excited very few and cost us a second Bush term.  Mistakes don't get much bigger than that.

by bfaul on 03/01/2008 02:29:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
you sorta refuted the you done good part pretty nicely.

by Chinese Democracy on 03/01/2008 09:59:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Twba and I have differing views, and I may not agree with the opinions of the folks he posts, but his post IS well written and researched.

Compare it to any of acrosa's posts.

I know others think him a troll. I don't. He has been a contributer to this forum for a long time and has supported the Turks. I don't require agreement, I want good conversation and cogent arguments.

A troll merely snipes and posts stupid shit and then moves on. They don't become supportive members of the community. You can argue his politics, but you can't say that he doesn't contribute to the discussion.

But, thanks for the support. I appreciate the kind words.

by MedfordTim on 03/01/2008 10:11:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I dont think him a troll, I know he is a troll. The amount of time he lingers on a liberal leaning blog doesnt negate that fact. Cutting and pasting someone elses ideas isnt that impressive to me btw.

Your welcome

by Chinese Democracy on 03/01/2008 12:05:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Twba has bowel movements that are more intelligent than you. In the future, I advise you to avoid all discussions with him. Your Friend, KenTX

by KenTX on 03/01/2008 03:17:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]

 to pick a new nic for our friend. Its been a few weeks now...

  • Ana Larententive
  • Colin Noscipy
  • H.M. Roid
  • F. Calvin Matter
Got any?

by MRFred on 03/01/2008 04:23:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
  • Annie Mah
  • Haywood Jablowme
  • Hugh Jass
  • Jenny Tull
  • Alpha Kenny Wun
  • Dawn Keebals
Anyone got more...

by bobo1 on 03/01/2008 06:12:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]

We are being good shipmates here and just trying to help. Statistically, he changes his nic every 4 months or so...or after he gets his ass handed to him by one of his targets.

So I guess he's due.

Some people. Geez 

by MRFred on 03/02/2008 10:29:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is he just another of China mans nics? or is he off on some other existential plane? Oh well... Some more nic suggestions are in order, yes?

Phil Myez
Phillip McCrevice
Stu Padasso
Tess Tickle
Yerma Wildo
Pat Mykock

Any more?

by bobo1 on 03/02/2008 11:57:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I could tell when he started stalking me, and every post degenerated to name calling.

by KenTX on 03/02/2008 12:35:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Who knows? Maybe...I never really looked at his posts that closely. Seemed pretty innocuous.

The attacks on me are simply because I don't go high order on KenTX or TWBA when "the one whose name shall not be spoken" takes offense.

It usually has something to do with a knucklehead attempt at humor by KenTX, usually about gays or anyone he deems  is a "right wing troll."

He also has a fixation on the marvel of the technology age, the HID and cut and paste. Somehow, a blogger that posts references in his work is a lesser sort of blogger than one who painfully restates the reference.

I dunno, when I wrote my thesis my adviser called it "standing on the shoulder of giants" The realization is that, other than pure fiction, and even there, there is very little new under the sun.

I guess I need to read the APA Style Manual again. I don't recall a blogging section in there.

 

by MRFred on 03/02/2008 12:56:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Either way, I appreciate you, Ken, TWBA, Hubble, MedfordTim and others that provide thoughful commentary and provoking discussion...

Thanks again, and I hope to continue a dialogue...

by bobo1 on 03/02/2008 01:24:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"The attacks on me are simply because I don't go high order on KenTX or TWBA when "the one whose name shall not be spoken" takes offense."


Tiny Dancer goes ballistic whenever a "reg" (frequent poster in the TYT forum) has a friendly exchange with the evil monster KenTX. Tiny's single goal in life is to end my participation in this forum.

Whenever MRFred is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever bobo1 is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever Hubble is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever Jarett is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever OneHitKill is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever Twba is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever Zippy is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.
Whenever MedfordTim is polite to conservatives, Chinese Democracy expresses his disapproval.

I could produce hundreds more examples of this peculiar behavior.

"knucklehead attempt at humor by KenTX"

Fred nailed this also. Humor is one of the most effective tools for influencing opinion. It's why Cenk is highly effective, while Randi Rhodes is highly ineffective.

My number one goal in this room is to figure out ways to make you guys laugh.

by KenTX on 03/02/2008 03:10:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
And he told me Juarez decided to not participate in the forum after all the drama.  He's not Tiny.

by Spencer on 03/02/2008 10:51:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Tiny likes nics with two words, such as Chinese Democracy or Juarez Traveller.  So I tried to come up with names that met this criteria. The following list should get him through May.

Truckstop Attendant

Happy Recipient

Midnight Cowboy

Wide Receiver

Roadside Assistance

Bronco Bustee

Lube Tech

Undercover Agent

He Ho

Sugar Plum

Submissive In Sausalito

Auntie Em

Bottoms Up

by KenTX on 03/02/2008 11:22:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]
how about Leeberal? That would be a good one. Oh thats right that one was already used to copy  someones nic and used to harass that person. Every single one of the cloned nics  posts was deleted due to it being so over the top hateful  Yet I dont remember you being bothered by that hmm. I got it, how about Liberall that's  a good one ohhhh that's right that one was used to harass the guy  too ! Guess what all those posts where deleted due to their hateful nature. See a pattern here mrs fred? Where oh where is your indignation?  

But here is  the real kicker  some of the best posts come from your best buddy  Ken troll using his main nic he didnt even bother changing it to a clone nic.

Gems like this.

"Just remember that whenever you see a post from a pro-gay participant with a name like Tiny Demon, Leeberal, ZaKK, neon, XxX, Beyondhiv, Dylan, Eva Destruction, they're all the same guy.

Remember the Chinese proverb:
"If you wait by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by.

Eventually, he will succumb to AIDS"

Defend your buddy now  you homophobic  fossil. There are probably hundreds of posts I could paste from that hateful screech monkey. But why bother.

(anyone can use the search feature :) )
--------

 I guess if I want to fit in with the ken troll posse I have to play by your rules , so from now on Bytchbang Ac whatever and every single ignorant hate filled right wing nutball  that posts here is KenTX.

The clone ones he uses to try to drive people away of course don't count everyone knows those already.

 If you think I would have to change nics to hide from you or whatever is in your befuddled mind don't flatter yourself, you are a screen name on the net  Ohhhh Im scared.

I hope I covered everything in  a way that even you can understand. I know its not cut and paste its actual typing but try .

If you want to play dueling photoshop  drop me a note Ill see if I can pencil it in my schedule ok?

by Chinese Democracy on 03/01/2008 06:48:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Every single one of the cloned nics  posts was deleted due to it being so over the top hateful...

anyone can use the search feature

Except apparently you.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 11:11:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Planet earth to the lunatic fringe. Your opinion has no import whatsoever.

Your superior
Chinese Democracy

by Chinese Democracy on 03/01/2008 05:40:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Speaking of which, where the hell IS Acroso?  He's been missing for a few weeks, hasn't he?  Did he lose all hope on the Ron Paul campaign?  Check the rafters.

by OneHitKill on 03/02/2008 02:52:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]

How's the Libertarian candidate doing. What was his name again? Oh I'm sorry, I forgot... I was looking on my calendar and forgot to mark down the Libertarian Party National convention date.

There are several fine Libertarian candidates, lets see there's

John Burns : "We must stop the robbing, raping, and killing and at the same time allow the peace, prosperity, and progress that the division of labor brings."  Now that you mention it ,maybe Rodney King was a Libertarian

Who can forget Daniel Imperato. Dan,  at one time also sought the Green Party and Reform Party nominations. Dan took a spin at Hollywood producing the critically aclaimed The Red Worm , Imperato claimed his family was descended from the Roman Emperor Nero and also claims to currently be a Papal Knight and a Knight of Malta . Daniel Imperato also claims to be a Knight of the Order Bonaria and that he serves as the organization's United Nations representative.

Imperato has also purchased several awards from the Republican Party. His campaign site while mentioning these "awards" even though they in no way signify achievement fails to mention that he paid for them! Now that's the invisible hand of the free market at work!

These awards include a 2004 NRCC (National Republican Congressional Committee) Honorary Chairman of the Business Advisory Council an award which is purchased through a donation to the NRCC, see NRCC "award winners", a Ronald Reagan Gold Medal Winner purchased title through donation, and a 2007 recipient of the Order of Merit from the NRCC purchased title through donation. Maybe Dan's working on buying a Medal of Freedom, after all it only cost a trillion (so far) to get Bremmer one.

 

Of course no review of the Libertarian greats could overlook Bob Jackson: "I am an Eagle scout. That means that I am trustworthy, Loyal, Honest, Prepared, trained and I help others at all times. " Nope, no cliches here.

There is also Mr Steve Kubby, marijuana and peyote legalization advocate who once fled the US to avoid prosecution.

Finnaly we have Wayne Allyn Root author, gambler and Libertarian. Root is the author of several books, including The Zen of Gambling , The Joy of Failure!, "The King of Vegas' Guide to Gambling", and Millionaire Republican,  Speaking of the most clichéd and least challenging slogans in the American political lexicon:
"I will lead America back to prosperity by restoring fiscal discipline, personal responsibility, rugged individualism, and individual rights and freedoms"

 

Thanks to Wikipedia  and Politico.com

by MRFred on 02/29/2008 08:40:23 PM EST


Just read the articles against each other and you will see the problem. On the one hand he's a soft mainstream politician, on the other he's a representative of the vehement left wing.

These are different opinions from different people. There have always been people in the media that don't like Obama, and there always will be. What matters, at least supposedly, in a democracy is the opinion of the people, and so far it seems to be pretty solid in Barack's favor.

Continuing to read your columns it becomes even more clear that you've happened to pick up writings from people completely out of touch with the common man. Obama's problem is 'the lack of quality in his speeches' - REALLY?!

Furthermore, as far as I understand there has been record turnout in the primaries, at least on the Democratic side. It's hard to reconcile that with two apparently lackluster candidates.


There are points that I would like to agree with, however. I can certainly see how Democratic support might wane significantly before the election, perhaps particularly for Obama, and I find it alarming how some, like Cenk Uygur, seem to think that this win is already a lock. John McCain might very well win, however little we may think of anyone who votes for him. As for Al Gore, I can only speculate as to why he hasn't tried to get renominated - he would be a strong candidate.

by Erik on 02/29/2008 07:57:05 PM EST


I would add that whenever anything becomes popular (be it a song, tv show, movie or in this case, a politician) a group of contrarians emerge.

They have various motivations as to why they're trying to play the role of party-pooper.  Sometimes they've honestly weighed the evidence and concluded the majority is wrong.  Who knows, maybe that's the case here.

On the other hand, often times *some* people just love being a contrarian, i.e. taking two steps back in response to most others having taken two steps forward.  These types would find some reason, ANY reason to rip on anything or anyone that's popular.  As much as they criticize those on the bandwagon for being duped and failly prey to an excess of optimism, they themselves have fallen prey to an access of pessimism.

And yes, there *is* a difference between being a pragmatist Vs. a pessimist.  A lot of people like to think of themselves as the former when in reality they are the latter.

by ihavenobias on 02/29/2008 08:12:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm with you 99.8%.  Consider your comment rated "Excellent".

by Spencer on 03/01/2008 12:49:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Obama's problem is 'the lack of quality in his speeches' - REALLY?!

But if you listen to Mr Obama's speeches, it is not the lack of substance but the quality of it that ought to worry Americans.

Here's help for those who have difficulty with reading comprehension. Obama's problem is not the lack of substance. Obama's problem is the quality of the substance.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 01:32:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What you dont "get" is that Obama is going to be the next president.

by Chinese Democracy on 02/29/2008 05:29:03 PM EST


This will be the quietest forum in the entire internet. Barack Obama, Peter Sellers, Chauncey Gardner. Can anyone (besides Twba) explain the linkage?

by KenTX on 02/29/2008 09:20:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Obama is a mildly retarded gardener that  lived in isolation, totally out of touch with the real world who was mistaken for a great leader, economist and ...no wait...that's wrong.

Oh I got it, Chauncey  was a Libertarian after all he "likes to watch".

 



 

 

by MRFred on 02/29/2008 10:20:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
through the supreme court again and or caging and other forms of voter suppresion (ala FL and OH) *again*, the only good news would be that about a month later McCain's approval ratings would plummet and America would think "oh God...WTF did we just do?!" (just like Bush's "reelection* in 2004).

This is relevant because the endless war, endless tax cuts and non-improvement of things like health care would ensure a Dem president for the next 3 terms *at least*.

by ihavenobias on 02/29/2008 09:27:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I am more interested in the linkage between Barack Obama and Austan Goolsbee. If a University of Chicago economics professor is the senior economist to the DLC and the senior economics adviser to Barack Obama, why is Obama threatening to pull out of NAFTA?

Did Obama not promise to repair America's image abroad? How the hell is stabbing your closest allies and neighbors in the back going to repair our image abroad?

Perhaps Obama is just telling Ohio voters what they want to hear, but he has no intention of becoming a dangerous protectionist.

Within the last month, a top staff member for Obama's campaign telephoned Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the United States, and warned him that Obama would speak out against NAFTA, according to Canadian sources.

The staff member reassured Wilson that the criticisms would only be campaign rhetoric, and should not be taken at face value.

If the report is true, it's good to know that Obama is not stupid enough to opt out of NAFTA. It's not good to know that he is willing to brazenly lie to win votes. That may come back to haunt him against the Straight Talk Express.

As Barack Obama would happily concede, words are powerful. Words matter. So let's briefly look at the words of Obama on trade. Here is Obama from his book The Audacity of Hope, sounding all Tom Friedman:

We can try to slow globalization, but we can't stop it. The U.S. economy is now so integrated with the rest of the world, and digital commerce so widespread, that it's hard to imagine, much less enforce, an effective regime of protectionism. A tariff on imported steel may give temporary relief to U.S. steel producers, but it will make every U.S. manufacturer who uses steel in its products less competitive on the world market.... U.S. Border Patrol agents can't interdict the services of a call center in India, or stop an electrical engineer in Prague from sending his work via email to a company in Dubuque. When it comes to trade, there are few borders left. [LINK]

Here is another analysis of Obama's record on trade and protectionism:

Senator Barack Obama's campaign has been long on slogans and mood music but short on concrete proposals and policies. However, on 2 Aug 2007, along with Senators Dick Durbin and Sherrod Brown and Representative Jan Schakowsky, Obama introduced the yet unpassed Patriot Employer Act. On 13 February 2008, he stopped in Janesville, Wisconsin to give a speech extolling this accomplishment. Janesville was an ideal place to peddle his protectionist legislative initiative: the Janesville Assembly Plant of General Motors is the largest employer in town. This bit of political pandering no doubt contributed to his endorsement on 20 February by the Teamsters Union.

[. . .]

The Patriot Employer Act seeks to transfer wealth from the truly downtrodden of the world to a limited number of favoured US workers: mainly those in once dominant manufacturing industries that have lost their global competitive edge. It is breathtaking hypocrisy to object to the often appalling conditions of work and employment in developing countries and emerging markets, including sweatshops and child labour, while at the same time trying to prevent the operation of the normal and effective mechanisms for remedying these deplorable circumstances: foreign direct investment, outsourcing, off-shoring and all other manifestations of free trade.

Sen. Barack Obama's proposal is reactionary, populist, xenophobic and just plain silly. It is time for him to stop pandering and to show the world that hope and reason are not mutually exclusive.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 01:30:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I take it you neither saw the debate nor read the words at your own link.

"I will make sure that we renegotiate.... I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced. And that is not what has been happening so far."

Are you suggesting that NAFTA doesn't need fine tuning? The main thing that needs to be done is to change it from NA Free TA to NA Fair TA. That's all I see him asking for.

"And as president, what I want to be is an advocate on behalf of workers. Look, you know, when I go to these plants, I meet people who are proud of their jobs. They are proud of the products that they've created. They have built brands and profits for their companies. And when they see jobs shipped overseas and suddenly they are left not just without a job, but without health care, without a pension, and are having to look for seven-buck-an-hour jobs at the local fast-food joint, that is devastating on them, but it's also devastating on the community. That's not the way that we're going to prosper as we move forward."

Twba, you have an argument with that sentiment?

Why do you hate America? </snark>

Now, the other nonsense...

The Patriot Employers legislation would provide a tax credit equal to 1% of taxable income to employers that:
  • Invest in American jobs, by maintaining or increasing the number of full-time workers in America relative to the number of full-time workers outside of America AND by maintaining corporate headquarters in America if the company has ever been headquartered in America.
  • Pay decent wages, by paying each worker an hourly wage that would ensure that a full-time worker would earn enough to keep a family of three out of poverty (at least $ 7.80 per hour).
  • Prepare workers for retirement, by providing either a defined benefit plan OR a defined contribution plan that fully matches at least 5% of worker contributions for every employee.
  • Provide health insurance, by paying at least 60% of each worker’s health care premiums.
  • Support the troops, by paying the difference between regular salary and military salary for all National Guard and Reserve employees who are called for active duty AND by continuing their health insurance coverage for the Guard member and his or her family.

Ooooh, scary protectionism, offering a whole 1% as incentive to do the thing they should be doing anyhow. What a zeeno-fobe! Must hate the idea of trade altogether, by golly! Willem Buiter and Anne Sibert really gave Obama a good raking over the coals!

Or...did they?

"Overall, then, I think the amount of harm the Obama bill would cause is really rather small, and it might actually do some good for working families. Obama's apologists don't need to defend it on regrettable-political-neces sity grounds, it's actually reasonably defensible on its merits."

Or, so says Felix Salmon at Conde Nast's Portfolio.com and is backed up by those Left Wing Loons over at the Economist.com who say their article was "...patently false and beneath Mr Buiter and Ms Sibert, who should have stuck to an analysis of the proposed policy itself."

Ouch!


You keep settin' 'em up

I'll keep knockin' 'em down

by MedfordTim on 03/01/2008 03:58:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I take it you neither saw the debate nor read the words at your own link.

I read the transcript but did not waste my time watching.

I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced.

Threatening to use a hammer on Canada repairs our image abroad how?

Twba, you have an argument with that sentiment?

Based on the quote from Obama's book, Obama has an argument with that sentiment.

...backed up by those Left Wing Loons over at the Economist.com who say their article was "...patently false and beneath Mr Buiter and Ms Sibert, who should have stuck to an analysis of the proposed policy itself."

Let's look at that quote in context.

Their piece opens on an objectionable note. The authors declare, "Senator Barack Obama's campaign has been long on slogans and mood music but short on concrete proposals and policies." This is patently false and beneath Mr Buiter and Ms Sibert, who should have stuck to an analysis of the proposed policy itself. Mr Obama's website is home to a number of (lengthy) documents outlining energy and health care policies, among other things. The merits of the proposals may be debatable, but they are substantive.

You quoted a line that refers only to the opening sentence -- not the entire article. And you accuse others of having not read their links.

Are you suggesting that NAFTA doesn't need fine tuning? The main thing that needs to be done is to change it from NA Free TA to NA Fair TA. That's all I see him asking for.

If I were not such a nice person, I would wish that he and his supporters get what he's asking for -- good and hard.

Free trade is best because it is free. Allowing people the freedom to choose low cost imports is best. Disallowing that freedom raises costs for those least able to pay. It is illiberal to impose on the poorest the cost of protecting a few jobs in industries that have failed to keep up with their competition.

Erecting barriers to trade impedes the creation of jobs and wealth in export industries, of which America has many. America has added over twenty million jobs since enacting NAFTA. The Rust Belt's woes were not caused by NAFTA.

Ooooh, scary protectionism, offering a whole 1% as incentive to do the thing they should be doing anyhow.

Corporate welfare always starts out small. It's just one percent. What could possibly go wrong?

And I have no trouble getting the embedded video to play on my machine.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 11:07:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Threatening to use a hammer on Canada repairs our image abroad how?

By letting people around the world know that we care about labor and environmental standards on an even playing field. Remind me again how sanctions on Iran and Cuba and our continued presence in Iraq helps our image abroad?

You quoted a line that refers only to the opening sentence -- not the entire article. And you accuse others of having not read their links.

Thank you. It's refreshing to know that someone actually DOES follow posted links. Sometimes I wonder. Your point has 1/10th validity. I purposely trimmed the quote to see if I could garner just the reaction you provided. Why? Because it gives me the opportunity to say, "No, they may have specifically highlighted the first sentence as patently false, but the logical next step of the GIGO law is that what follows the first sentence remains patently false. When the foundation of a house is made of dung, the whole house stinks."

Pretty clever phrase turning, huh?

Based on the quote from Obama's book, Obama has an argument with that sentiment.

Hmm...that's not what I got out of it, but you didn't answer the question. Do YOU have a problem with that sentiment?

Free trade isn't free. Those who prefer 'free' over 'fair' have made a decision that $2.00 socks are more important to them than dwelling on the plight of billions of working people being exploited around the world without considering that the person who sold them those socks continues to make record profits year after year.

America has added over twenty million jobs since enacting NAFTA.

Gosh, that's an impressive statistic! 20 million, huh? In only 14 years. Wow. Especially since 3.5 million of them came in the first year. I mean...wow.

Meanwhile, our population has increased by 40 million. More households are two-income households, more people have part time jobs in addition to their full time jobs, wages have stagnated for lower income earners, and a lot more people are beginning to realize that when rich people start telling them how much better off they are with FREE trade as opposed to a MANAGED economy, they better grab hold of their wallets, fast!

You might want to look up the definition of 'corporate welfare.' Your statement makes no sense in the context of this bill. See: Oil company tax rebates or no bid contracts to Blackwater and Halliburton for a working example of corporate welfare.

Glad the embed worked for you - I got a message that the vid had been removed. Weird. 

by MedfordTim on 03/02/2008 01:35:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Threatening to use a hammer on Canada repairs our image abroad how?

By letting people around the world know that we care about labor and environmental standards on an even playing field.

Sure. The people around the world just see a huge bully slamming the door in their faces with the convenient excuse that it's about labor and environmental standards. They don't buy it.

Your point has 1/10th validity. I purposely trimmed the quote to see if I could garner just the reaction you provided. Why? Because it gives me the opportunity to say, "No, they may have specifically highlighted the first sentence as patently false, but the logical next step of the GIGO law is that what follows the first sentence remains patently false. When the foundation of a house is made of dung, the whole house stinks."

My point is 100% valid. The opening sentence of an essay is hardly a shitty house foundation. It's just the first sentence in the first paragraph. The fact that this first sentence was designed to provoke an emotional response from the reader does not mean that the following sentences are patently false.

To further expand on the Economist's opinion of Obama's recent conversion to a protectionist:

For a man who has placed "hope" at the centre of his campaign, Barack Obama can sound pretty darned depressing. As the battle for the Democratic nomination reaches a climax in Texas and Ohio, the front-runner's speeches have begun to paint a world in which laid-off parents compete with their children for minimum-wage jobs while corporate fat-cats mis-sell dodgy mortgages and ship jobs off to Mexico. The man who claims to be a "post-partisan" centrist seems to be channelling the spirit of William Jennings Bryan, the original American populist, who thunderously demanded to know "Upon which side shall the Democratic Party fight--upon the side of `the idle holders of idle capital' or upon the side of `the struggling masses'?"

[. . .]

The sad thing is that one might reasonably have expected better from Mr Obama. He wants to improve America's international reputation yet campaigns against NAFTA. He trumpets "the audacity of hope" yet proposes more government intervention. He might have chosen to use his silver tongue to address America's problems in imaginative ways--for example, by making the case for reforming the distorting tax code. Instead, he wants to throw money at social problems and slap more taxes on the rich, and he is using his oratorical powers to prey on people's fears.

Mr Obama advertises himself as something fresh, hopeful and new. But on economic matters at least he, like Mrs Clinton, has begun to look [like] a rather ordinary old-style Democrat.

Free trade isn't free. Those who prefer 'free' over 'fair' have made a decision that $2.00 socks are more important to them than dwelling on the plight of billions of working people being exploited around the world without considering that the person who sold them those socks continues to make record profits year after year.

Free trade is free. Now, some of the trade deals that are described as free are not free enough. There is no reason for a free trade deal to be more than about three pages. A good sign that a trade deal is not free enough is when it is about three thousand pages long.

Fair in fair trade is just lipstick on a pig. There is a good reason that a bad tax plan is called the Fair Tax. Who could be against fair? Fair trade is not fair. It is protectionism and designed to jack up prices on the poorest members of society to benefit a few well off members. It is an excuse to restrict access to our market to the people who are worst off around the world.

The two dollar socks are the first rung on the ladder out of poverty. If we had slammed the door in the faces of the South Koreans when they were peddling two dollar items because they lacked First World labor and environmental standards, they would not have been able to build industries that now threaten to surpass Japanese industries in selling automobiles and other high-priced items to Americans.

...people are beginning to realize that when rich people start telling them how much better off they are with FREE trade as opposed to a MANAGED economy, they better grab hold of their wallets, fast!

It's funny how the people mired in managed economies have no wallet to grab. A lot of people in Cuba are trying to get to America, but not many Americans are considering going to Cuba to look for a job.

by Twba on 03/03/2008 01:31:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
If the GOP wins, This will be the quietest forum in the entire internet. Barack Obama, Peter Sellers, Chauncey Gardner. Can anyone (besides Twba) explain the linkage?

I am happy to add this to Ken's already voluminous list of incorrect predictions, even before it happens.   I'm efficient like that.

by OneHitKill on 03/02/2008 02:55:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I selected a number of interesting articles and columns about Obama and provided quotes and links. Considering the wide variety of sources, it's silly to think that they all reflect my opinion. I chose them based on their likelihood to generate interesting conversation.

And anyone who wastes his time giving your comment a rating above one is an idiot.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 11:10:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"KenTX and John Derbyshire are on the same wavelength:"

No, you're always on their wavelength Joe. 

by bfaul on 02/29/2008 11:16:39 PM EST


KenTX and Twba were not on the same wavelength when it came to Gore running again.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 01:32:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
But I still think Gore could capture the nomination. If Denver becomes a brokered convention, with a 50/50 impass, and a raging civil war, Al Gore could emerge as the logical compromise candidate. After considering the reality of a Clinton or Obama nomination, convention goers would probably be relieved to vote for Gore.

by KenTX on 03/01/2008 02:58:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
But I still think Gore could capture the nomination.

That is why I included the link to Derbyshire.

by Twba on 03/01/2008 03:45:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Especially since I really have no idea where you stand.  Talking about Gore is really kind of a waste of time.  I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, but Gore's not running.  What I do know is that you spend all of your time running down the candidates that are available to the Democratic side.  I'm not sure what it is your looking for but you can be sure none of them are going to fit your views very closely, especially since your statements always circle back to the Republican point of view.  That's fine, but for some peculiar reason you insist you are a "liberal".  If you think the Republicans are right then stand with them.  You do it in all but name anyway, so what the hell are you afraid of?  Come out of the closet.

by bfaul on 03/01/2008 05:42:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It is disconcerting to me that Sen. Obama seems to be a moderate in terms of his voting record.  He also has not been as involved in the Senate as he could have been.  Sen. Clinton mentioned that he has not started one investigation since becoming Chair of the Sub-Committee for European Affairs.  Sen. Obama could investigate why the BushCo would not listen to our Nato allies about military strategy for invading Afghanistan.  It seems BushCo had a plan before 9-11 even happened.

by Truthand4Justice on 03/01/2008 01:51:19 AM EST


I found this exchange at another site and figured it would come in handy. I have no idea who the two conversing are and don't really care.

*************************** ******

It's funny you should mention higher taxation William, because the ONLY piece of legislation Obama sponsored in the Senate was the Global Poverty Relief Act of 2007, which would impose a huge global tax on the U.S. In other words, other nations will like us better if we give them our money. Moonbat socialism at its finest!

Posted by: Ellsworth

Well, ellsworth, actually he also sponsored:

S.697 : A bill to amend the Higher Education Act of 1965 to improve higher education, and for other purposes.

S.918 : A bill to provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

S.969 : A bill to amend the Public Health Service Act with respect to preparation for an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic, and for other purposes.

S.1180 : A bill to amend title 38, United States Code, to reauthorize various programs servicing the needs of homeless veterans for fiscal years 2007 through 2011, and for other purposes.

S.1194 : A bill to direct the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to establish guidelines and procedures for tracking, controlling, and accounting for individual spent fuel rods and segments.

S.1426 : A bill to amend the Safe Drinking Water Act to reauthorize and extend provisions relating to contaminant prevention detection, and response.


I could go on, but you get the point.

by MedfordTim on 03/01/2008 09:49:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]

"Sen. Clinton mentioned that he has not started one investigation since becoming Chair of the Sub-Committee for European Affairs.  Sen. Obama could investigate why the BushCo would not listen to our Nato allies about military strategy for invading Afghanistan.  It seems BushCo had a plan before 9-11 even happened."

Well, this argument would carry a lot more weight if she could show that she had succeeded in holding them responsible for anything herself at any time.

On the contrary, I can think of a few ways she enabled them. 

by bfaul on 03/01/2008 02:12:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hi troll

Missed you

Haven't changed abit, a little more wordy though.

The only person lacking more substance than Obama is your favorite president, George.

By that standard alone Obama is more qualified


Gore? if you guys would have supported him when you had the chance HE WOULD BE PRESIDENT

by LORD FOUL on 03/01/2008 08:36:35 AM EST


Kudos TWBA

trollerific

by LORD FOUL on 03/01/2008 09:59:31 AM EST


"Troll" is not code for "someone who disagrees with liberals on a liberal board."

by jarett on 03/02/2008 05:57:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Sound, fury, nothing, etc.

Obama is right on the lion's share of the issues and has his finger on the pulse of the American people.  He is going to be our 44th president and I'm afraid no amount of fear, uncertainty and doubt is going to change that.  People just aren't buying it anymore.

If you can attack him with substance, please do (of course, we reserve the right to disagree with you if you just say "universal health care is bad").  Otherwise, admit you really have no serious criticisms of him and move on.

by jarett on 03/02/2008 05:58:52 AM EST


If you can attack him with substance, please do (of course, we reserve the right to disagree with you if you just say "universal health care is bad").  Otherwise, admit you really have no serious criticisms of him and move on.

I pointed out Obama's pandering on trade. That is a serious criticism of Obama based on substance.

Obama's health care plan without a mandate means that it is not universal. Or at least that it is less universal than Hillary's. It's actually a good sign that he recognizes that a mandate would infringe on the freedom of people to opt out of health insurance.

by Twba on 03/03/2008 01:33:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
If you can attack him with substance, please do...

The substance keeps piling up.

by Twba on 03/04/2008 09:31:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I remember the Clinton campaign saying that they had one more thing to release about Obama.  If this is it...  The sauce, tis weak.  "Political posturing"?  Oooh.  How seedy.  Assuming it's even true.

by Spencer on 03/04/2008 06:22:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A senior Latin American diplomat, who asked to remain unnamed because of the sensitivity of the topic, says, "Look, we're all watching Obama with bated breath and hoping [his election] will be a transforming moment for the world. But now that we're listening to him on trade -- the issue that affects us so deeply -- we realize that maybe he doesn't wish us well. In fact, we might find ourselves nostalgic for Bush, who is brave and courageous on trade and immigration." [Newsweek]

When Obama looks bad, from the viewpoint of foreigners, in comparison to Bush, it's a problem.

by Twba on 03/06/2008 11:59:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]
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