Clinton/Obama - maybe; Obama/Clinton never

Email Print posted by blueheartinaredstate 02/05/2008 09:15:39 PM EST

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I agree with Ben.  Obama would never pick Clinton to be his VP because Bill and Hillary are too powerful to put in the VP position.  Obama needs to make himself #1 in his own presidency and Clinton would vie for that position.

Now Hillary might choose Obama.  For the opposite reasons.

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Clinton/Obama - maybe; Obama/Clinton never | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
I agree whole heartidly... (none / 0)
Guys...people...voice of reason here...its gonna be Clinton Obama... They would be unbeatable. Period.

by bobo1 on 02/05/2008 10:58:19 PM EST

Nah (none / 0)
I don't think having Hillary anywhere on the ticket will help.

Cynicism is poison to reform and pumps life into the status quo.

by prezalex on 02/06/2008 12:08:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You need to stop sniffing glue (none / 0)
Obama would tank whatever future he may have had by becoming Hillary's running mate.  Also his campaign is BASED on his opponent being a Washington insider.  Finally, the ticket would 'look' extremely left wing to a large cross section of voters.  It would be too tough a hill to climb. 
If she wins the nomination, he won't take the #2 seat.  No chance in hell.  He'd get banished to outer Kazakhistan two seconds after Bill.  Of course Bill would start hitting on Kazakhi women two seconds before his plane landed.  It's not nearly as much fun for someone who practices fidelity in his marriage.

by veeve on 02/06/2008 02:50:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"tank" it? (none / 0)
What?

A Hillary-Obama presidency would guarantee 16 years of a Democratic executive.  You're dreaming if you think anyone is a) unseating Hillary or b) beating Barack Obama with 8 years as VP under his belt.

by jarett on 02/06/2008 04:10:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
i disagree (none / 0)
obama owes edwards a huuuuge debt of gratitude, so i wouldn't be surprised to see an obama/edwards ticket.

as for clinton, i could see her using obama to capture the black vote.  she's already doing well with the latino and female vote.  add the black vote and ba-boom, you got a damn good formula for success.

by mathcore on 02/06/2008 12:34:18 AM EST

oh shi- (none / 0)
i totally misread that.  therefore i totally agree.

by mathcore on 02/06/2008 12:49:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
hahahaha (none / 0)
sup b.

by jarett on 02/06/2008 01:15:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah kinda (none / 0)

It sure would have been nice for Edwards to endorse Obama though.

On your second point; nobody really needs to fight for any vote (black, latino, female, etc.) anymore.  All those votes are going for whoever the Democrat is regardless.  When it comes to the VP picks, it's pretty much all posturing at this point. 

by Spencer on 02/06/2008 12:54:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]
A real progressive (none / 0)
I'd like to see the nominee pick a real progressive as VP.  That'd it a lot easier to go into 8 years that will probably be more of the same from either of them.  Not more of the same bush crap, but more of the same DLC republican garbage.

by ynp7 on 02/06/2008 01:49:02 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You Need A Narrative (none / 0)
I somewhat agree with your notion of an Obama/Edwards ticket, but I completely disagree with your insinuation that you can just add the 'black vote'.  There is no narrative to bring that ticket together.  Political novices seem to think you can just mash candidates together.  BS.  Besides, the race has already gotten too nasty for the political expedience of adding the other to the ticket.  These two candidates HATE each other, regardless of what they tell 'us rubes'.

If Obama wins the nomination, I could see him pick Senator Jim Webb for the military expertise.

If Shillary wins, I can see her pick the 'go along to get along' Senator Evan Bayh.

by veeve on 02/06/2008 02:58:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Obama / Clinton would be a life ins. policy... (none / 0)
...for Obama.  Kind of like Cheney was a life ins. policy for Bush. 

by elasg on 02/06/2008 07:32:26 AM EST

I disagree (none / 0)
If Obama does get the nomination, hes gonna run as far away from Hillary Clinton as possible. He could pick Edwards and they would win easily. I dont think Obamas gonna win texas or ohio, though, and so its gonna give Hillary the nod. She has to pick him or end up fracturing the party after Obamas glorious upstart "get out the people" campaign.

that damn pesky voice of reason again ... Clinton/Obama 08...Then Obama WILL be president in 2016.

by bobo1 on 02/06/2008 08:28:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
2 Things (none / 0)
1)-As I've said before, being VP under Hillary is the worst, least important VP job in history.  Not only did VP's have very little power before Cheney (I assume we go back to that tradition), but who actually thinks Obama would be VP in any way other than title?

Bill Clinton would be the *actual* VP here, which means Obama better figure out if Clinton likes her coffee black or with cream and sugar.

2)-I think Obama would lose a lot of his luster sitting in a DLC dominated Whitehouse.  All that time with watered down corporate centrists HAS to have some negative influence on him.  Plus, what if Iraq and the economy really tank within the next 1-2 years (odds are great that at least 1 of the 2 will happen)? 

I think Obama's rhetoric (if he were president) could help keep public support up while (by contrast) the Clintons would be on a short leash, i.e. a potential one term presidency (again, assuming Bush created hangover).  There's a chance Obama could be tainted in that way as well, i.e. guilt by association.

by ihavenobias on 02/06/2008 11:48:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I disagree (none / 0)
You are right in saying that the VP position will lose a lot of its power, but that is absolutely perfect for Obama! He will have 8 years to develop his own distinct persona and agenda, aside from the Clintons and the DLC. The VP has 2 official jobs:

1. To have a heartbeat
2. To break ties in the Senate.

Obama as a VP would be able to take the initiative to work on the programs he wants without the scrutiny on his lack of record. He wont have to answer for his abundant inexperience because that heat will be taken by Clinton. he brings so many people to the ticket, it wont matter how little actual action there is behind his seemingly hollow words.

Remember, I like Obama. i'll certainly vote for him over Mccain or any other republican. But he isnt gonna win on his own! he just doesnt have enough substance on his own to hold up against McCain.

If Obama is on the outside during a Clinton presedency without being the VP, he will have to battle another Democrat (presumably Edwards) when 2016 comes up. Being the VP is almost always an automatic ticket in!!!! (Dont say Gore, Gore lost because Bush cheated and Gore ran away from Clinton, plus Gore is an attention freak, anyway!!!)

Obama as the Junior Senator from Illinois is not going to make a big splash in 8 years of Clinton. Do you think Hillary is going to allow Obama to succeed unless it makes her look good? Come on people, its time to stop smoking the ObamaMarijuana and come back to reality. The only way hes gonna get in is behind Madam President Clinton...

Thanks for reading!

by bobo1 on 02/06/2008 09:54:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
He doesn't have enough "substance" (none / 0)
to win on his own?

First off, I created a whole thread debunking that idea.  Maybe in his speeches and debates he doesn't put us to sleep with complex and detailed answers on every issue, but if you want substance, read reviews of his policy proposals.

Or go to his website and check out his BluePrint For Change.  He KNOWS that the vast majority of the electorate is a bunch of dopes that can't appreciate (due to ignorance and or misinformation and or apathy) substance to begin with.

It's policy wonks like us that care about that sort of thing and assume everyone else does too (I make this mistake from time to time myself...they should but the fact is they generally don't).

As for the general point of him not being able to win, are you kidding me?  Hillary is ahead with old people, latinos and women.  Obama gets just about everyone else, including a LOT more independents.  In a general, you know the hardcore dems will vote democrat.  But the independents and moderate-right types?  They will NOT vote Clinton but they *will* vote Obama, which is huge vs McCain.

by ihavenobias on 02/06/2008 10:23:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
On Policy Proposals... (none / 0)
Hey, again, please dont get me wrong. I LIKE OBAMA AND WILL VOTE FOR HIM IF HE IS THE NOMINEE!!!

That being said...any college graduate with half of a brain cell can write and make policy statements sound good. Having worked on local campaigns in my past, generally they are just outlines with fluff added in to sound good.

I would venture to say that he better have good sounding policy thoughts, because he hasn't had time to do JACK in the senate in 2 years!! nobody is that influential or powerful in a body like the senate in that short time span. He cant run on record, only on ideas and ideals, which sound good on TV, but really dont provide voters with Evidence (something I get accused of not providing enough on this blog) that he is capable of running the Federal government to support his ideas.

Remember, we are looking at best 60-40 in the Senate, a little better in the house, and the President (with normal Presidential Power) cannot do it all on his own. he's gonna need help. Are Republican Conservatives gonna help him. HELL NO...If you think they are, you are seriously delusional on how government works.

As for electability, I dont want to come across as a Hillary supporter, IM NOT. I cant stand her, to tell you the whole truth (a lot of it is that sexist thing we discussed earlier!) I'll vote for Obama in a heartbeat over anyone else running at this point. I just dont think that this momentum is going to build into this Kennedy-esque powerhouse all the way until November.

He is going to be scrutinized (eviscerated) by the Republicans and the media looking for a good story. And dont forget ole buddy Rezco from Chicago...thats coming up VERY SHORTLY, im sure the Republicans in the courts will make sure of that. At least with the Clintons, we already know their demons. Most people (even Republicans) have passed on their indiscretions.

As VP, Obama would be shielded from much of this scrutiny, have his chance to build 8 years of solid independent reputation and be the frontrunner and shoe in in 2016. Clinton is only going to let him succeed if it makes her and her legacy look good!!! Its just simple facts, people!!!


But then, simple facts are anyone is better than a Republican!!


Thanks for your input.

by bobo1 on 02/06/2008 10:42:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
But the guy (none / 0)
is incredibly intelligent, articulate and thoughtful, and seems to have good judgment overall.

The president isn't expected to be the perfect human.  He would just need to sorround himself with a solid VP and cabinet to fill in some of those experience blanks, at which point his intelligence, and judgment will MORE than make up for it. 

And his passion and inspiring speeches would, well, *inspire* much of America, which is a critical x-factor in his potential effectiveness as a leader.  And as Cenk said the other day, electing him sends a powerful message to much of the world (not to mention America) on several levels, which is a great bonus.

Finally, the media seems to LIKE him overall, especially relative to Hillary.  Who needs Rezko when you can pull out the old, already written storylines from the 90's?  You can say there's nothing there of substance, but so what, that doesn't stop BS from influencing people.

Whitewater, Lewinsky, the Iraq War Vote/Iran Resolution, "mandated healthcare" and on and on.  You think the media can resist bringing this nonsense (well, the Iraq/Iran stuff is real, but the rest is junk) up, despite the lack of relevance overall? If you do we're not watching the same TV stations.

by ihavenobias on 02/06/2008 10:59:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree and disagree... (none / 0)
I think Obama is very intelligent, likable and a better choice overall yes, but Cenk was mentioning today about the "information Gap" that exists, where dummies vote for name recognition and popularity (again, among the general public) Hillary Clinton (better yet Bill Clinton). Obama isnt gonna beat her in OHIO, TEXAS and PENNSYLVANIA, heavy establishment democratic states. (yes, the 3 democrats in Texas are heavy into DLC establishment - thats how they keep their jobs in redneck Texas {wink wink Ken TX})

Again, I like Obama, but Hillary is too entrenched into the Democratic Party as it stands today. She is the Bill Clinton Legacy candidate. Think of the Democratic Party as a giant fraternity (or sorority in this case).

I think if Obama gets the nod, he better surround himself with some Democrats with HUEVOS OF STEEL in terms of credibility and class.

As for potential scandal, I think the American public would actually sympathize with Hillary if all of that Gennifer Flowers, Whitewater crap came back up. Why rehash all of that, it would sound and be tired and old! I dont think the people would buy it again (some would, but they are republicans anyway who wont vote for Democrats anyway)

A new scandal like Rezko and whatever else the Republicans pull out of their hat will be new and more exciting against Obama, forever tarnishing his Kennedy-Esque aura to him. Everybody loves to tear down the nice innocent guy (especially in this case unfortunately because hes black and it could potentially revert to TYPICAL BLACK GUY BEHAVIOR) This would damage Obama among Independents, a group he will be struggling with McCain for.

I sure hope this doesnt happen, but do you trust the Lamestream media? I sure as Hell dont...


Thanks for your comments!



by bobo1 on 02/06/2008 11:29:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
uh (none / 0)
If Clinton/Obama becomes a reality, it would disintegrate on day 2.  Hillary would want to use Obama to make her triangulation sound inspiring.  I THINK that Obama would not want that and wouldn not let himself be used to that end.

That said, a Hillary/Obama ticket would win handily against McCain/Jesus Christ.  And maybe Obama would calculate that that is more important than anything and would bide his time as a VP hoping for something better in 8 years.

I don't see it though.  Hillary would pick Edwards or someone else that represented heart.  Obama would pick Richardson to pick up the Latino vote.

The dream team is a nice thought but it never happens.

by blueheartinaredstate on 02/06/2008 05:32:05 PM EST

Driving Mrs Hillary (none / 0)

by Chinese Democracy on 02/08/2008 02:06:06 PM EST

Driving Mrs Hillary (none / 0)

by Chinese Democracy on 02/08/2008 02:06:19 PM EST

Clinton/Obama - maybe; Obama/Clinton never | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
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