How do you fight a war on terror? Really?

Email Print posted by jarett 03/20/2008 04:12:44 AM EST

Google Technorati del.icio.us digg reddit
If you like this story, digg it!
I posted this last night on Digg and was curious what everyone's comments on it would be.  Bear in mind I was talking to a jingoist idiot at the time.

It boils down to "neocons think they can shoot America's problems," when the reality is you have to address the root causes. Ron Paul tried to explain it to you and you shouted him down at a debate. The Democrats have been trying to explain it to you for years and you called them terrorist-huggers.

What does the village down the road see when an American army unit goes into a terrorist stronghold, blows up their weapons cache and shoots the sons of bitches? They see American uniforms killing Arabs, which just goes further toward recruiting MORE terrorists. All military power can do is serve as a bare, temporary stopgap.

The reasons and excuses for Islamism - poverty, lack of education, the Israeli occupation of Palestine - have to be addressed directly instead of just putting bullets in the heads of psychotic religious whackjobs. America's foreign policy needs to change. There needs to be less militarism in Iraq and more economic groundwork. Israel needs to be convinced -- however necessary -- to retreat to their 1967 borders and share Jerusalem with the Palestinians. If real peace progress can be made in Israel, the entire reason terrorist organizations have for existing will start to fall apart like a house of cards.

"How can you say we must fight the Americans when they have convinced the Jews to stop killing our brothers in Palestine?" This is what we must get people in the Middle East to start saying each other if we ever expect to win the war on Islamism.

Lack of education, religious indoctrination and poverty is not "their fault" anymore than it is your fault that you were raised in the most privileged country in the world. The question is whether or not you want the entire situation to stop. This is not about "tough breaks." It is not about picking yourself up by your bootstraps. It is not even about whether or not the occupation is right or wrong. It is about the answer you get when you sit down and ask yourself "do we want one more Israeli to die because of this senseless idiocy?" And -- think about your answer to this one very hard -- "do we want one more Palestinian to die because of this senseless idiocy?" What is in the best interests of the Israelis? What is in the best interests of the Palestinians? What is in the best interests of the United States? As long as this conflict exists, the United States is in greater danger than it needs to be.

How do rabid killers get to be rabid killers? How do you stop them from becoming rabid killers? How do you get the extant rabid killers under control? Those are the questions to be asking. Not "Jews killing who," the answer to which is COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS. The point is not whether or not the Israelis are judicious in their responses to attacks. ANY response to an attack is viewed as terrorism by the entire Arab world.

Get this through your head: EVEN IF THE ISRAELIS ARE RIGHT, IT DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't matter who's "right" or "wrong" anymore. All that matters is ending the damn thing.

Make the Knesset sit down and realize the bunker mentality is getting them nowhere. Engage in a massive effort to establish lines of communication with every faction of Hamas at the same time as you find real ways to win the "hearts and minds" war with the Palestinians. Broker a peace, and carve out a spot for the Palestinians who currently have no home at all to speak of. That is the only way this thing is going to end.

We cannot win the war on Islamism the way we won the war on Naziism. There is no Berlin to roll tanks into. There is no Hitler -- if you really think Osama is like Hitler, you're fooling yourself. There is no leader of the Islamist movement. The entire process of brainwashing and radicalizing people has been decentralized. There is no regular army to fight against, there is no Luftwaffe, there are no strategic maps to look at. There is no Blitz. We are talking about a war of information that results in constant tiny-scale killings that add up to a big conflict, and the occasional high-profile terrorist attack. You cannot win this kind of war with bullets. It can only be won by showing the people that are being radicalized that -- and this is CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT -- our way is better than their way.

It's a little disorganized, but I hope it gets my point across.

< Dick Cheney makes a fair point | Obama on National Security and Iraq >
 Display:
How do you fight a war on terror? Really? | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
Yep (none / 0)

You're right.  Imagine a roll reversal here.  An Iraqi tank rolls down your street and shells your neighbor's house.  When they tell you that their way is the right way (no matter what way it is), I suspect you might think it's bullshit. 

Our best weapon is our culture and, while it goes against my hippie liberal commie ways, a little globalization is our best hope in this.  Afterall, nobody wants to fight after they've eaten a delicious McRib and watched an episode of The Simpsons.  It's little stuff like that that wins over the youth and, in time, breaks down the fundamentalism.  It's already happening anyway.  I mean, they banned Doritos for God's sake (literally), and any religion without nacho cheese is destined to fail in the end.

by Spencer on 03/20/2008 05:13:23 AM EST

No one really wants to hear this (none / 0)

but Rev. Wright was RIGHT.  We are reaping what we sowed in the middle east for generations.  We supported every kind of evil repressive dictator out there as long as he was "pro-America".&nb sp; We toppled the democratically elected leader of Iran and replaced him with the Shah.  We supported Saddam.  We currently support the Saudi royalty.  And we have blindly supported everything the Israelis have done.

 We might not remember or be aware but the people of the middle east sure do.

We cannot simply cynically rape any country we choose for their resources and expect that they will not fight back in any way they can.

First we change our policies.  We stop supporting dictators.  We stop grabbing other countries resources while returning as little as we possibly can.  We encourage REAL human rights everywhere including Palestine.  We help bring real economic opportunity  to the impoverished.  We TALK with people who have grievances with us and see what we can work out.

 In short we act like adults instead of school yard bullies.

That's how you fight terrorism. 

by blueheartinaredstate on 03/20/2008 08:10:21 AM EST

Really (none / 0)
It is true that the neocon solution is nothing more than adding gasoline to a fire.

As far as Israel, you are wrong. First off the 1967 border was expanded as a result of an invasion by their Arab neighbors. In fact the Israelis have given most of the land they won back.

The arabs will settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel period.

Arab/Muslim problems in the region have always been laid at the feet of the Jews since 1947. Notice how Saddam tried to drag the Israel into the Gulf war. Any time an Arab/Muslim leader gets into trouble the stir up another Jewish plot

Look at the map. Israel is relatively small and insignificant compared to her Arab neighbors. When was the last time you heard of any Arab nation willing to give up some of their land for the creation of a Palistinian state.

I wonder is a group of native Americans launched terrorist attacks in this country and demanded that anyone not american indian should leave would you comply?

What if Mexico sent suicide bombers here would you give back Tex,NM,ARZ and Cal.?

When would it end?

It is real easy to tell another country to give up their land isn't it

Terrorism is the Arab version of war, if the can't win militarily they resort to suicide attacks (usually against civilians). The Jews respond and are painted as the bad guys.

You are not going to end this fighting anymore than we are going to stop the fighting between Sunni and Shia tribes. They have been at this for thousands of years.

We are never going the "win" the war on terror because Terrorism is a tactic not an enemy.

The first step we have to make is letting the leaders of OPEC know that we intend to cut our dependence on their oil. How fast we do it will be determined by how much "cooperation" we get from them concerning "Al Qaeada", Iraq and Afganistan.

Arab/Muslin Nations should sign a treaty protecting the goverments and borders of Iraq and Afganistan. They should supply a peace keeping force in Iraq until Iraq can defend itself.

There should be 1 more offensive in Afganistan/Pakistan to wipe out Bin Laden and Al Qaeada. Then an arab peace keeping force for them as well.

Terrorism should then become the responsibility of law enforcement/military inteligence.

That would be a start.

by LORD FOUL on 03/20/2008 11:26:24 PM EST

C'mon (none / 0)
There should be 1 more offensive in Afganistan/Pakistan to wipe out Bin Laden and Al Qaeada. Then an arab peace keeping force for them as well.

Why would Afghans, who are not Arabic, accept a military occupation by Arabs?

by Twba on 03/21/2008 07:18:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Wording (none / 0)
Muslim peace keeping force (not an occupation)

by LORD FOUL on 03/21/2008 02:22:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wow. (none / 0)

Powerful stuff. After reading your article, jarett, and the replies by spencer, blueheartinaredstate, and Lord Foul, I can't think of anything to add.  You all have asked the most important question:

How do we stop it?

The desperation and fear and anger that I read in those posts reminds me of exactly how I felt during the Vietnam War.  We started a war under false pretenses after having abrogated a treaty that had been agreed to by both the north and the south.  We were setting children on fire.  We were killing our young men while rich people like our current President escaped doing their duty.  I was very angry.  I hated our warmongers.  I skipped school to protest and march and plan more protests in my little midwestern town.  I wanted to get arrested, but the older folks I worked with wouldn't let me because I was a minor.  I was willing to do almost anything to help stop the war.  But I could not condone the violence of some war protesters, although I understood their frustration and anger and saw no way to stop the hawks from killing even more people.

And now we're faced with exactly that question yet again:  How do we stop it?

I don't think we can yet.  This is the country in which a large number of citizens gloated when Oliver North brazenly boasted of lying to Congress and helping to foment an illegal war to overthrow a democratically elected government by selling weapons to our enemies.  We can't fight such a large number of people and keep our country together.

All we can do is to try to pursuade them and to tell everyone we know why Republicans are bad for children and other living things.  We hope for the best, knowing that we will not always be able to stop the killing and suffering.  With time I'm absolutely sure that we'll evolve away from these destructive tendencies , but not for another couple of centuries or so, at least.

In the meantime, we'll just have to do the best that we can.

Tell everyone!

by EveningStarNM on 03/21/2008 04:47:24 AM EST

Terror = Fear (none / 0)

How do we stop it?

You find a way to convince the majority that the only way to "win a War on Terror" is to quit being afraid of theorhetical danger.  But good luck doing that.  Some people just can't get comfortable unless they're scared shitless.

by OneHitKill on 03/21/2008 08:02:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Get real (none / 0)
If real peace progress can be made in Israel, the entire reason terrorist organizations have for existing will start to fall apart like a house of cards.

How will peace progress in Israel stop the Chechens from killing Russians? How will it stop Islamists from killing democrats in Pakistan? How will it cause the Taleban's reason for existence to fall apart? It won't. Continuing conflict between Issies and Pallies has nothing to do with the reason for the existence of terrorist organizations in Chechnya, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

by Twba on 03/21/2008 07:16:49 AM EST

Answer to Jarett's question (none / 0)
“What does the village down the road see when an American army unit goes into a terrorist stronghold, blows up their weapons cache and shoots the sons of bitches?”
They see American boys risking their lives to kill extremist nuts who have terrorized the village by:
Inviting Iraqi Sunni villagers to lunch, and then serving their ten year old sons, baked with glazing and an apple in their mouths; Decapitating children in front of their parents; Using mentally retarded people as human bombs.

They see American boys killing or capturing an average of 1500 al Qaeda terrorists every month.

They see the plain truth that "There is no God but Allah and Al-Qaeda is the enemy of Allah”

They see what the problem is, and they send this message back to America. "Please, tell the Democrats to stop pressuring Bush."

Then they offer America a simple message: “Thank You!”

by KenTX on 03/22/2008 12:17:30 AM EST

How do you fight a war on terror? Really? | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
 Display: