War is always the answer. McCain Reinstates the draft!

Email Print posted by villagemon 03/21/2008 09:37:30 PM EST

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A few days after invading Iran, John McCain will reinstate the draft.

It took a year after the stock market crash of '29 for the run on the banks to begin and almost a year to complete the total slide into Depression.

Let's act now and prevent a repeat with a new avalanche of spending... on war.

Lock and load....

Ooops, we can't do all this with mercanary forces.  Time for universal conscription.

Anyone with children 18 and younger is signing their death warrant if they vote for this war monger.


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War is always the answer. McCain Reinstates the draft! | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
A bit rash.... (none / 0)
Even old Grandpa Death knows that reinstating the draft will mean utter revolution among the citizenry.... Its not gonna happen...

I dont like McCain as much as any of you dont, but let us not fearmonger within the choir... it will only put us at their level (and the Clinton's level, maybe)...:0

Thanks

by bobo1 on 03/21/2008 10:00:14 PM EST

Spartan mothers used to tell their sons... (none / 0)

"Come home with your shield, or on it."

They valued those who would stand up and defend their country.

We have very little of that ethic in our country.  We expect others to do our dirty work.  We require no national service of any kind, and our children never learn that belonging to and benefiting from a society actually requires contributing to it if they want it to remain great.

As a former Vietnam protester, I never wanted to end the draft (although I was willing to suffer the consequences of refusing to serve in Vietnam -- that would have been my national service).  I did, however, want the sons of the rich on the front lines.  But they never went there, and they stopped drafting just before they got to me.

As a left-of-left progressive, I want people to know that they are citizens of this country and to contribute to it.  I want a draft, either for military service or for some other kind of meaningful national service.

I don't object to a draft if it is structured so as to avoid the injustice of people like Dubya being able to escape doing their duty.  And I want the rich to be the first ones drafted.

They should stand up for their country before forcing others to do so.  They should come home either with their shields or on them.

by EveningStarNM on 03/22/2008 04:35:40 AM EST

You want a draft? (none / 0)
In your opinion, over the past 60 years, which American wars (or other military engagements) have been worthwhile?

by KenTX on 03/22/2008 05:26:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
<yyyYYYAAAAAAWWWwwwnnn> (none / 0)

If this is too far over your head, Ken, let me know and I'll dumb it down a little for you.

by EveningStarNM on 03/22/2008 05:53:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Typical JuarezEveningStar Response (none / 0)
He makes the assertion that America should reinstitute the military draft, yet he cannot provide an example of a worthwhile war that America fought in the last 60 years.

The man is bereft of logic, and I will continue to demonstrate with counterpoint.

by KenTX on 03/22/2008 03:07:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Logic? (none / 0)

by EveningStarNM on 03/22/2008 03:28:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bereft, ie, you have none. (none / 0)

by KenTX on 03/22/2008 03:32:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What is this obsession you have with me, Ken? (none / 0)

We both know that you have no desire to sincerely discuss this issue.  Your sole motive for entering this thread is to try to provoke me in order to satisfy your sick psychopathic desire to cause someone unhappiness.  Today it's me.  Other days, you use other people.

But you're fighting a losing battle with me, Ken.  You just don't have what it takes.

You have demonstrated most of the symptoms of psychopathy that can be seen in a forum such as this:

Factor 1: Aggressive Narcissism

  1. Glibness / superficial charm
  2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
  3. Pathological lying
  4. Conning / manipulative
  5. Lack of remorse or guilt
  6. Shallow affect
  7. Callous / lack of empathy
  8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Factor 2: Socially Deviant Lifestyle

  1. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
  2. Parasitic lifestyle
  3. Poor behavioral control
  4. Impulsivity
  5. Irresponsibility
Ken, you have to understand the value I place on your comments about me: none at all.  Now, I know that you will keep stalking me here and trying to disturb me.  I know that your behavior will not change.  But it doesn't matter.  You don't matter to me.  I would have to think that your opinions were important in order to feel disturbed by you.

I don't.

And that's what logic is.

by EveningStarNM on 03/22/2008 03:50:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Your question is proof that you ignore logic. (none / 0)

by EveningStarNM on 03/22/2008 03:33:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ken, Ken, Ken (none / 0)
I love it when you pitch me a big fatty right down the center of the plate.

I know Cons just love the troops (as long as they don't have to spend tax money fixing them after they are no longer functional) and believe that if you use them as a back drop for pretty photo ops to prove what manly men they are (even if they don't have the balls to actually put on a uniform, or pulled strings to get out of actually having to put their asses on the line when real combat is taking place) that means they are real Americans who "support" the troops. Support in this case can not be put in financial terms which is why the troops usually are worse off after the cons have had control.

Cons also have a viscaral belief that if you lean liberal or progressive or don't tow the Republic Party line you don't believe in the use of the Military and hate the troops.

Both false assumptions.

Now it is obviously a trick question, because one can always argue that no war is “worthwhile” (a con view of what liberals beleive) but as a nation we have through various situations, commitments and treaties found it necessary to deploy our military for the purpose of securing our National Security interest.

While there are more I’ll just hit a few highlights.

Let’s start. 1948-49 Berlin Airlift. The United States was obligated to protect the sector it was controlling from the Soviet attempt to strangle West Berlin by cutting off supply routes to the city. I think most people would say it was a noble and justifiable use of the military.

Korean War- While you may argue that the war itself was mismanaged, The United States and the United Nations were obligated by charter to assist the South Koreans from invasion by the North Koreans.

Cuban Missile Crisis-While miscalculating that the Soviets would supply Cuba with Nuclear Weapons, once it was determined that bases were being built it was imperative in the climate of the times to respond, I think it worked out for the better.

First Gulf War- It can be argued that The United States was partially responsible for the invasion of Iraq. The U.S. Ambassador did give a the ole nod to Saddam telling Iraqi authorities that the United States had  “no opinion on inter-Arab disputes, like your border dispute with Kuwait." With that qualifier I would say that while we may have misstated our position once another country is invaded without provocation and with the overwhelming support of the international community the 1<sup>st</sup> gulf war is a justified use of our military.

1992- Bush 1 deployed troops to Somalia for humanitarian reason during the Somalia Civil War in conjunction with the United Nations.

1995-Bosnia again for humanitarian reasons and in keeping with the NATO charter we are committed to.

2001-Afganistan, with again a NATO operation authorized under the Article 51 of the U.N. charter. The United States was attacked by terrorist who were trained and harbored in Afghanistan.

This is a partial list answering the ORIGINAL question of instances were a U.S. Military was engaged in war OR military engagements. I could give you more but I think I’ve answered your trick question.

Here is my point. The United States has NEVER BEFORE Shrub decided to prove he had a bigger dick than his "daddy"  preemptively waged war on another country. It has responded to crisis and honored commitments it has entered into to support other countries but before the unprovoked invasion and occupation of Iraq it has never officially been the aggressor in waging war.

Hope that helps. Some may not agree with my examples, but for the most part we as a country before Shrub The Mighty Warrior have tried to promote peaceful solutions to crisis before kicking the shit out of someone.

We no longer have the ability to be the moral authority on when to use force.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 03/22/2008 05:50:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
nice job hubble (none / 0)
Always a pleasure doing business with you.

by KenTX on 03/22/2008 06:04:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What a liar (none / 0)
"As a former Vietnam protester, I never wanted to end the draft (although I was willing to suffer the consequences of refusing to serve in Vietnam -- that would have been my national service).  I did, however, want the sons of the rich on the front lines.  But they never went there, and they stopped drafting just before they got to me."

The last American combat soldier pulled out of Vietnam in March of 1973. You were 16 years old at the time. Kent State happened when you were 13 years old. The Tet Offensive happened when you were 11 years old.

Perhaps its unfair to call you a liar. You're so mentally ill that you don't know the difference between the truth and a lie.

by KenTX on 03/23/2008 04:15:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That was not even a good try, Ken. (none / 0)
I've already revealed my age in this forum on a few occasions this month (and maybe in February) as being 55. (As a matter of fact, I'll be 55 for the rest of this month.)  I'm surprised that you don't remember, since you seem to have such a fascination with me.

So, try again: How old was I when the war ended?

C'mon, Ken.  It's just simple arithmetic, and there's only one right answer.  Surely you can figure at least that kind of logic.

by EveningStarNM on 03/23/2008 05:50:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Are you lying again? (none / 0)
"I've already revealed my age in this forum on a few occasions this month (and maybe in February) as being 55."

How many times have you revealed your age as 55?

A quick search indicates the answer is zero!

Why don't you produce a post that proves me wrong? I've been wrong before, so here's your big chance.

by KenTX on 03/23/2008 07:43:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You're getting to be ridiculously tedious... (none / 0)

...in your desperate attempts to try to shake me.  What's worse is that you're boring.  But what is this fascination that you have with me?

Well, I don't really care.

So, until you try to harass me in another thread, adios, creep!

by EveningStarNM on 03/23/2008 10:14:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
To your corners (none / 0)

To EveningStar:  I don't think it's so obvious that you were "harassed" in this thread.  Ken asked you a question from his "clever stock."  (The "clever stock" includes golden oldies like "Why hasn't the US been attacked by terrorists since 9/11?" and -- sing it with me! -- "Which wars in which the US participated were, in your opinion, worth while?")  And then you basically called him stupid.  That's how the harassment started.  Just look up higher on the thread and you can see.

To Ken: That said, why do you pursue battles like this?  They make you look terrible.  After all the names you've been called, you should be as tough as a damn armadillo.  Yet, your reactions to EveningStar's comments border on allergic.  So I'd like to echo EveningStar's question: What is your fascination?

by OneHitKill on 03/23/2008 10:29:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You're right. (none / 0)

Ken wanted to try to ruffle my feathers with a stupid question.  He had no intent to pursue a reasoned discussion of the issue.  His only intent was to see if he could get a rise out of me.  I decided to not play his game and, instead, to describe his question in the only way that it can be described given the context of the preceding discussion:  It was a stupid question.

Hopefully, he might tire of his failures with me and not disrupt future conversations with his inanities.  But if he doesn't, it's no big deal.  There are lots of other people here who do have intelligent things to say, and I enjoy reading them.

by EveningStarNM on 03/23/2008 11:23:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The more things change. (none / 0)
The more they stay the same. Ken swiftboats a perfectly good thread by antagonizing someone. Maybe this forum isn't so different after all. McCain seems to have a real problem differentiating between Iraq and Iran. Some say it's just he's been working hard and he's tired. And that will get better when he get's elected how? If we are stupid enough to make him president, he will continue the Bush horror show, and a draft will be unavoidable. And then to cut costs we can ship our technology to China and buy cheaper equipment than our own citizens can build. 

by juebawl on 03/22/2008 05:41:11 PM EST

I thought we got rid of you? (none / 0)
"Ken swiftboats a perfectly good thread by antagonizing someone."

Please read the thread again and then defend your statement.

If I made a point in a thread and someone disagreed with me, would you label their post as "antagonizing"?

by KenTX on 03/22/2008 06:16:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You (none / 1)
 miserable,sad sack , loser , conservative wiener dogs will never be able to grasp the connection.

You are bereft of logic

by Chinese Democracy on 03/22/2008 07:16:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ah, Ken (none / 0)
I knew if I poked at you with a stick (dull as mine might be) you would say howdy. Hope life is treating you well.
Hubbles reply was much better than mine, don't you think?

by juebawl on 03/22/2008 06:54:40 PM EST

Welcome Back juebawl (none / 0)
Hope you decide to stay awhile.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 03/22/2008 07:01:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dems promises (none / 0)
Thanks,Hubble, but now back to the task at hand. Neither Barrack nor Hillary will be able to extricate us from this mess as quickly as they have promised. Bush took us into the quagmire and now we own it. Turning our backs and burying our heads wont fix Iraq, maybe nothing will. Ultimatly, I believe the Bush administration will get exactly what they wished for, the bankruptcy of the US treasury and the distruction of the new deal and the middle class, replacing it with an elite ruling class and a working poor, much like Mexico. The days of the US being a world power are rapidly coming to an end, we are becoming irrelivent. I wonder if Bush and Cheney have bought their mansions in Dugai yet?

by juebawl on 03/22/2008 09:02:39 PM EST

War is always the answer. McCain Reinstates the draft! | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
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