Is Hillary Positioning for 2012?

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The Politico laid it out very clearly yesterday - and solidified what we've known for weeks - this race is over.  Obama has the nomination.

Even Hillary Clinton's own campaign admits it! Politico reports, "One important Clinton adviser estimated to Politico privately that she has no more than a 10 percent chance of winning her race against Barack Obama, an appraisal that was echoed by other operatives. In other words: The notion of the Democratic contest being a dramatic cliffhanger is a game of make-believe."

It's somewhat hilarious to watch the media eat up the campaign spin on the record, that she's got a great shot to win this and win the Presidency.  Of course, the race gets a whole lot more boring with lower ratings when it's Obama vs. McCain, probably with a huge lull in the campaign, where - God forbid - the news media will actually have to go out and find and report news, and not just campaign talking points sent to them.

I've been trying to figure out for weeks why Hillary Clinton is still in this campaign because the math has been obvious for quite some time now. Even Mitt Romney had the - what would you call it, decency, wisdom, common sense - to drop out after he realized it was mathematically impossible (or next to impossible) for him to win.

There is one possibility as to why Senator Clinton might still be in this race, inflicting heavy damage on the presumptive Democratic nominee.  That reason is Hillary 2012.

Now that's a heavy charge. I can't read her mind, so I don't know what her true intentions are. We can only judge based on her actions. Her staff understands and agrees that she has a very, very small chance of winning, but she is still willing to go after front-runner of her own party in the strongest possible words.

Look at what she has said about the man she privately believes will be the Democratic nominee for President:

He has not crossed the "Commander in Chief threshold" like John McCain has.

He cannot be trusted to answer the phone at 3am.

His only experience is a speech from 2002.

That he is disenfranchising voters in Michigan and Florida (even though she agreed to the same rules he did when those states stepped out of line in the primary process).

And, as Bill Clinton intimated yesterday, he doesn't love our country, like Hillary and McCain do.

Those are some serious blows against someone in your own party and might seriously hurt his chances of winning the general election. In fact, every day that Senator Clinton stays in the race is another day she spends money damaging Senator Obama. And every dollar she spends is a dollar in John McCain's pocket.

It almost makes you ask - does she want him to lose?

If Obama wins, then Senator Clinton couldn't run again until at least 2016 (unless something goes terribly wrong). At which point, she would be almost as old as John McCain is now. If she's ever going to become president, she has this narrow window.

On the other hand, if Senator Obama sustains serious political wounds going into the general election and winds up losing, then Hillary Clinton is sitting pretty in 2012.

In four years, John McCain will be 209 years old, and coming off a disastrous first term.  We will still be in Iraq and the country will be dying for change. If you thought the voters wanted change now, imagine what the situation will be in 2012. Imagine how starved the electorate will be for a Democrat if McCain just spent four years replicating George W. Bush's policies - as he is adamantly promising to do on the campaign trail.

At that point, Senator Clinton would be able to swoop in and say, "See, you went with Obama last time and he lost, just like I told you.  Now, nominate me, and I will take this White House back like we should have four years ago!"

Having narrowly lost to Obama in the primary, she would be in a great position to say "It's my turn! Let's get this right!"

Is she that cynical? Does she care that little about her own party or her own principles? Remember, a McCain win signs us up for more years in Iraq, a possible new war with Iran, an untold number of conservative judges on the Supreme Court, a probable overturn of Roe v. Wade, four more years of economic pain for the lower and middle class and ... no healthcare reform for another four years.

Is anyone that politically craven? To risk all that so they have a better chance of winning in 2012? I hope not. I hope she is just being delusional and thrashing about in misguided desperation as she continues to wound Obama going into the general election.

But if she is doing this on purpose - and she wants Obama to lose this time around so she has a better chance of winning in 2012 - she better make damn sure that news doesn't leak. Because that kind of political crime would be unforgivable. Unforgivable.

Watch The Young Turks Here

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Cenk, you have hit it square on... Hillary staying in at this point only shores her up for the next run...

She will do all in her power to bring Obama down...even if it means eating one of her own, she will do whatever it takes to win - she is a Clinton, thats what they do...

I think Obama is gonna show his true colors once the nomination is offical (thats not a good thing, Obamabots) and short of actually campaigning for McCain, Hillary will do everything in her back channel, back alley, political connections abilities to make sure McCain wins... Dont be surprised to see Hillary canoodling with Lieberman when Obama gets the Nod...

Like you said Cenk, McCain will be 209 years old (if he survives the term anyway) and a Democrat will certainly take the White House in 2012... Obama will go by the way of Kerry if he loses to Grandpa Death, never to be a national figure again...

Im sorry to the Obamabots and HildaBeasts both, but Im gonna say it again - the Democrats really screwed the pooch by letting a woman and a black guy fight for their nomination... anyone else (Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Gore ie White Men) and this would have been a cake walk for the Dems - Bush might as well have just handed them the keys...
 
In your desire to "Change the World" and "Show that America can get past their divides" (both gender and racial) you have just given old Grandpa Death a fighting chance at the White House. Its a damn shame, Democrats wont have this kind of opportunity again for a while... Talk about snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory!!! This year democrats have turned it into an art form...

Any Thoughts?

Thanks for your insight, all gracious host...

:)

by bobo1 on 03/22/2008 05:45:59 PM EST

What are Obama's true colors? I thought he was being himself. (As much as we can depend on any pol to, at least)

Also, why does it have to be that having a white woman and a black man caused this when it may just be that is was THIS white woman and black man running? Also, what does that have to do with the article? Those same divisions did not occur until after the Clinton campaign saw its chances dwindle after the Iowa caucuses loss and went negative on Obama.

Cynicism is poison to reform and pumps life into the status quo.

by prezalex on 03/23/2008 11:01:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]
But I'll just chalk up the similarity to my earlier post to great minds thinking alike.  :0)

http://www.theyoungturks.co m/story/2008/3/13/16265/118 4/Diary/Is-Clinton-delibera tely-sabotaging-Obama-s-Nov ember-chances-

by Dogger on 03/22/2008 07:52:56 PM EST

You linked to another story that contained a link to an AOL blog about Hillary with the "ME!!  GLOOOOOORIOUS MEEE!!!!" clip in it.

I want to direct everyone's attention to the comments in that AOL blog.

http://news.aol.com/newsblo ggers/2008/03/11/ill-go-to- democratic-convention-with- a-pitchfork-if-hillary-ste/

Really?

SERIOUSLY?

Where the hell do these people come from?  WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?  There are no conservatives like these on the TYT forums.  There aren't any of them on the Facebook communities I frequent.  I've never met any that I can think of.  Yet they seem to inhabit AOL with a virulence.  Why?

by jarett on 03/22/2008 10:52:25 PM EST

This is what I have been screaming to you guys over the last 2 months...

PEOPLE IN AMERICA DO NOT REFLECT WHO YOU SEE ON TYT AND OTHER LIBERAL FORUMS...

Unfortunately, the majority of Americans are like the people on AOL... Im sorry that this is news to you... The Facebook communities are probably full of Liberals who know what the Hell "Facebook" is - Go ask any average Joe, and they wont know WTF you're talking about!!!

These issues you guys fight over with the Hildabeasts are irrelevant to the General population...

You guys are gonna be shocked when November rolls around... This is why the Pastor Story is still alive - IT MATTERS TO THE GENERAL JOE SIXPACK MIDDLE AMERICA POPULATION - who are severely Underrepresented on TYT and other liberal sites!!!

Thanks again...

by bobo1 on 03/22/2008 11:23:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I think there are a lot more Joe Sixpack's tuning in, even if slightly, then you think. I think there are a lot more liberal Joe Sixpacks than you or the MSM think. Part of why I think so has to do with the high turnout in the primaries so far. We're talking well over 25 million votes between Obama and Clinton so far, huge for a primary, and we're not done yet.

People are tuning in, and things like Youtube and Facebook are open to the public and very popular. It's not just latte-sipping liberals who frequent them, or else they wouldn't be some of the most frequented sites on the world wide web. That means lots of people from all over, including Joe Sixpack, have the chance to see and hear about these candidates and if you hear them, sure there are a lot of very old-world, prejudiced minds, but many are changing and even more are at least talking about the election and Wright and the "More Perfect Union" address, so to be the contrarian's contrarian, I think more 'average' people are tuning in than you think.

Though to be honest, I'm quite middle class, average, whatever myself. 

Cynicism is poison to reform and pumps life into the status quo.

by prezalex on 03/23/2008 11:08:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Sorry, I didn't just mean TYT and Facebook.

I meant even the people I interact with in town in South Bend.  The random Indianan townies who likely have never been outside the county.  Most of them don't even care, really.  My overwhelming impression is that there really aren't a whole lot of crazy conservatives left.  You've got plenty of Ron Paul "conservatives," maybe -- people who overall just distrust government and want to be left alone -- but this spittle-drenched crap these people write seems to be coming from an entirely different animal.

by jarett on 03/23/2008 10:00:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]

There is one possibility as to why Senator Clinton might still be in this race, inflicting heavy damage on the presumptive Democratic nominee.  That reason is Hillary 2012.

 I heard Randi Rhodes say the same thing and I disagree.  I think she is BLACKMAILING the DEMOCRATS.  GIVE me MY NOMINATION or I'll give this election to McCain!!!

 It's the Neo-ROVIAN butthole, Mark Penn in action.  The Dominant Theme of Hillary's case against Obama is and ahs always been, "He can't beat the EEEEEEVVVILLL Republicans.  Only *I* know how to beat Republicans!"

It's a tactic of FEAR (Rovian).  Republicans have al Qaeda.  Hillary has the Republicans. Vote for MEEEE or the Evil, nasty Republicans will win!!!!!

THAT was what the "3 AM Commercial" was all about.  Republicans look at that and do BELLY LAUGHS about how Hillary should be Commander In Chief.  Does anyone in the WORLD think Hillary Clinton should be in charge or has any real qualifications to command the US Military???  Seriously?

(Of course, putting your Bud's Dad, Wes Clark as Secy. of Defense would make me feel SUPERGREAT about American Security.  Like there's no way in GOD'S GREEN EARTH Obama couldn't offer and Clark couldn't accept the position from Obama, for God's Sake!  Just because he supports Hillary now.  Sheesh!  PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

It doesn't matter WHO is on the other end of that 3 AM call.  If Secy of Defense, WES CLARK, is the one MAKING IT, I trust the decision that will be made!!!)

No, this commercial was intended not to show how SUPERIOR Hillary's command of the Military was, but to show how REPUBLICANS will ATTACK Obama on his LACK of Military credentials.  Thus, you need to vote for Hillary because she will PRETEND to have military credentials. (Dukakis in the TANK, anyone?) 

by sunsawed on 03/23/2008 02:19:28 AM EST

Hillary doesn't have the patience to wait for 2012, she is scuttling Obama's ship to leave super delegates with only one percieved choice: her.  And it may work.  That is, it may get her the nomination.  Remember, many of these superdelegates are the same Dems who have bent over Bush's meat counter for years with nary a "be gentle" for the American people.  They will bend over for the Clintons' bullying too.

Where she is wrong is her assertion that she is the one who will beat McCain.  She won't, because she can't.  She has already bought into Republican framing, and she can't be as Republican as Granpa' John.  If she kills Obama, she will kill the enthusiasm of the Democratic base.  Middle America won't trust the Clintons, conservatives hate them, and liberals and people of color will feel betrayed.  It's McCain in a walk, in a year when it shouldn't even be close.

Remember, Hillary funded Lieberman after he went independent - that  is her wing of the "big tent." 

by gdoud on 03/23/2008 02:56:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Except...Obama will not lose to McCain in 2008. The dems have more voters and more energy...and McCain doesn't even have the GOP base solidified behind him and will never have it either.

by acroso on 03/23/2008 05:58:44 AM EST

 So what side of the rainbow are we working this week acroso?

 Read these acroso posts and then decide.

On TYT: Voting for Democrats are at best like voting for street bums and at worst a lot like voting for terrorists.http://www.theyo ungturks.com/comments/2007/ 10/14/155517/23/33#33

 On Ron Paul Forum: my ass....they want to stay in Iraq for 100 years.We're better off with Democrats at this point if not Paul

ON TYT :the Dems support the troops by supporting their defeat. The dems can't be trusted on any matters of national security.http://www.theyoun gturks.com/comments/2007/2/ 25/61739/1922/63#63

the Terrorists and the Democrats have had a lot of success in their attempts to break the will to fight of the American people. http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/9/131553/ 4837/1#1

Here acroso supports a Paul-Kucinich ticket !

On Ron Paul Forum:As long as Paul is on the top of the ticket...and not the bottom of it...

 Sort of , earlier:

 On Ron Paul Forum: I hate Kucinich

Here acroso contradicts himself, again

 On Ron Paul Forum: uhhh..I hope H-beast wins to keep the Democrats demoralized too even tho i like Obama

Earlier he posts

 On Ron Paul Forum Obama sucks it, smokes, swallows it.

On TYT How did they manage to trick the voters into this new hope ( Obama ed.) filled bipartisan agenda. http://www.theyoungtu rks.com/comments/2007/2/6/1 1367/49130/2#2

Here acroso shows his true feelins about TYT
Q( to acroso):the young turks? those idiots on the young turks youtube??? what are you doing posting there? they always seem to be bashing paul
A:True.
Here Acroso trolls with CNN... on TYT he has called it Communist News Network and pro-terroristr after raving about Fox. Ok but...

 On Ron Paul Forum: I like CNN more than Fox. MSNBC has dipshits one and two- Olbermann and Mathews spewing their leftist venom.

On TYT: CNN can play the terrorists propaganda vids along side of the dem resolution supporting the terrorists.

the CNN sniper video of troops getting shot that was filmed by the terrorists in Iraq for propaganda. They want to break the American will so they give the tapes to the libs in our lib media who have like minded goals.  http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/1/5/19828/5 3784/2#2

Ron Paul Forum I've stopped watching television since I liked Paul lol. Everything it says annoys me so i look on net instead

Here Acroso shows his concern for the troops and their coming home from Iraq in this thread on how to deal with McCain supporters and showing his antiwar stripes to his Ron Paul friends in other posts:

On Ron Paul Forum :
Just ask them why so many soldiers are committing suicide over there and when they come home

To sabotage McStain too! Who wants to waste another 1-2 trillion in Iraq.

Tell him Iraq has cost 1.6 trillion, and McCain wants to dump another trillion in it over the next four years.

McCain keeps winning the anti-war vote....no idea why.

Less Jobs! More Wars! McCain 08'!
Thompson loves war and is a dumbass? yes..yes he is.

my ass....they want to stay in Iraq for 100 years.We're better off with Democrats at this point if not Paul

 

As noted above Acroso is against the war on the Ron Paul Forum. No crime in that , BUT compare those statements to his insults he posts on TYT 

 

Dems think our troops are "Nazis" http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/10/25/21313 4/43/102#102

The dems desire to defeat the troops in Iraq and Afganistan. They want to impeach Bush because that is another way to victory in the war against the war (or another way to defeat the U.S., whichever way you look at it.) http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/11/112312 /588/9#9

Pelosi has set a date for surrender to the terrorists in Iraq, Pelosi has set a date for surrender to the terrorists in Iraq, http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/11/112312 /588/2#2



Many Americans have lsot the will to fight the terrorists after the non-stop rhetoric coming from the left and the L&S divisions of our campuses http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/9/131553/ 4837/1#1

Nancy hangs the troops out to dry to let the Americans know who the dems really are and to lets the Islamos know that your party supports them http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/3/23/14658/ 5848/1#1

Go complain to Harry Reid who is heading up the defeat our troopsbillhttp://www.theyou ngturks.com/comments/2007/3 /2/941/60818/2#2

I posted his closing speech in the effort to stop the Dems pro-Al Qaeda resolution.http://www.theyo ungturks.com/comments/2007/ 2/25/61739/1922/54#54

Well if there is one thing the Dems don't do is " Caring about our country." They've been working on tearing apart the ideaof what it means to be American since way before the farewell speech of Reagan where he talked about the elimination of nationalpride and collective memory. http://www.theyoungt urks.com/comments/2007/2/17 /22318/8973/22#22

Well I do know why the dems voted for General Patraeus and his plan for a surge along with giving funding to president Bush for the troops surge yet pass resolutions opposing what they just did\approved. It's all politics. Their rabid anti-American base demands that the dems politicize the war and pretend to not support the troop http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2006/5/3/12955/5 1892/8#8

The dems are invested in defeat, and cheer it on http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2006/12/3/151518 /361/4#4

Which is it, he supports the war...or he doesnt. Well you can support the troops with out supporting the war...right? So how does acroso support the troops? To his Ron Paul friends he posts:

We need to gut the military to cut spending.

 

Yet on TYT the trolling never stops. Its hard to fight in Iraq..or anywhere else when you gut the military, dont you think?

 Democrats hindering the war effort, funding, and the troops we'd have won these years ago. What we need is a much larger standing army, more media control, and fewer rules. Unfortunately Al Qaeda has learned to game our media in order to dispirit the American people and the dems just act an amplifier for their message. http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/2/2/18320/2 3155/9#9

the Dem supported the troops by supporting their defeat in the 60s. Now they "support" the troops by supporting their defeatin the war on terror. It comes to reason that the Democrats DO NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.http://www.theyoungt urks.com/comments/2007/2/15 /175041/565/41#41

 The Dems mato is defeat. Common sense tells us they were going to surrender to the terrorists if they took power incongress.This defeatism means implementing dates for withdrawal and defunding the our troops. http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/3/28/102731 /281/11#11

 

Here acroso shows some geographic deception. This is same person who rails on about Democratic voter fraud on TYT


I'm voting Romney in Florida...That doesn't mean I'm not a RP supporter and big time donor....it just means I CAN'T FUCKING STAND JOHN MCCAIN

Ok...how do I become ( precinct captain) one.....in Tennessee...what I need to do Inform me please.

I want to be a delegate...or whatever it is...please explain what I must do...for Tennessee?

 Here acroso demonstrates his capacity for hate:

I hate Kucinich 

I hate Gravel.

I hate Mcain (38) 

If any thing acroso should be consistant on immigration, right? 

Ron Paul Forum: Close the border by using fencing, deport VISA overstayers

TYT :Build the fence, deport illegal aliens.

Deport illegal aliens after they serve their sentences rather than releasing them

As for deporting criminals- that's easy. Who the hell pays for them to sit in jail all that time.


 Here acroso complains about a troll! Now on TYT he screams censorship about the same type of activity.

The post on the Ron Paul Forum: RFP Blows!!! What once was an uplifting place for grassroot supporters to get together and support our cause has turned into a joke overrun by idiots and their conspiracies and Billionaire saviour posts.

Who runs this place? 12 year old kids?Nothing could be so disheartening than coming here looking for good RP info and see post after post of "Secret to winning", "Billionaires for Paul, coming shortly", "I've got a secret that will get RP elected" , ... Only to see fluff in one post after another.Yes, we certainly have earned the name Paultards for a reason.What a shame. We had something special going.
Sorry to the true RP supporters but I think you know what I'm talking about.

Acroso: TROLL=ban IP please.

And again 

 Post; The sheep have spoken: If Ron Paul can't do better than 5th place in SC with the kind of dismal voter turnout that occured here today, this campaign is done.I can't tell you how disappointing this is. Hopefully the "movement" will survive and continue.

Acroso : Troll! 

 

Here acroso speculates about Fox and Diebold collusion on controlling the vote.

Fox has shut down their forums...not letting anyone talk until the election is over.PANIC?Maybe Diebold doesn't control these states?

 

Here acroso isnt above a bit of GOP bashing on the Ron Paul forum. Plays well with the Pauliacs

 Post: Shepherd Smith was talking to Michigan folks in a bar.....the Democrat didn't vote, but the Republican voted for Ron Paul. He was clean cut, well spoken....it was wonderful!!!  

Acroso You mean he wasn't an AIDS infected communist who ...never mind.

Here Acroso quotes Think Progress..a website that when used as a reference on TYT he calls  "leftist and subversive"

McCain says that he will no longer adhere to his no new taxes primary pledge he made in the Republican primary.

Now he wants to raise your taxes! (link)

by MRFred on 03/23/2008 10:21:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Not trying to be critical, but just, breathe, relax, and let it go for now. We'll get 'im next time.

Cynicism is poison to reform and pumps life into the status quo.

by prezalex on 03/23/2008 11:09:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Are you trying to say that acroso is a highly consistent, very thoughtful poster?

by jarett on 03/23/2008 10:34:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I am hoping Dave will finally deal with their own rules about trolling .

by MRFred on 03/24/2008 09:20:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
YOU have decided that she can't win and because of that YOU have decided she must have an alterior motive for staying in the race. Of course anyone who agrees with you is 100% right (not). Whether you like it or not the Superdelegates can vote any way they want. They are a part of this crazy process just like the caucuses and primaries. I didn't hear you crying about how unfair the caucuses were to Clinton and how they are not honestly reflective of the will of the people.

Let me ask you What is the "official" function of the superdelegates? What is their purpose? (and guess what it is not to rubber stamp the pledged delegates) They are supposed to vote for the candidate with the best chance at winning in November.



The fact is that YOU want to steal the election, by ending it before it is over. YOU want ot steal the election by telling voters in PA (and all the other states) that they should just vote for Obama because she can't win, when in fact she still can.

You bitch about how Hillary's tactics, what about yours? So far you have accused of trying to steal the election and now you are accusing her of sabotaging Obama. No wonder Obama stays clean when he has people like you to slime her. Just like those people who accused her of being a racist. (I wonder do you think that has anying to do with Afro-American voting patterns this cycle)

Honesty check Cenk: When Bill Clinton called Obama's opposition to the war a fairy tale was he being racist or was he pointing out something else?

By the way who is John O Brennan (and what was his role in "breach gate")

and one last thing what is this Thesis story I keep hearing about.





 

by LORD FOUL on 03/23/2008 08:06:06 AM EST

Obama has got the black vote polarized so that 95% of them are voting for him. Clinton has the white vote polarized, but not to the degree that Obama has suceeded so it's costing her big time.

by acroso on 03/23/2008 08:51:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]

 

 Read these acroso posts and then decide.

On TYT: Voting for Democrats are at best like voting for street bums and at worst a lot like voting for terrorists.http://www.theyo ungturks.com/comments/2007/ 10/14/155517/23/33#33

 On Ron Paul Forum: my ass....they want to stay in Iraq for 100 years.We're better off with Democrats at this point if not Paul

ON TYT :the Dems support the troops by supporting their defeat. The dems can't be trusted on any matters of national security.http://www.theyoun gturks.com/comments/2007/2/ 25/61739/1922/63#63

the Terrorists and the Democrats have had a lot of success in their attempts to break the will to fight of the American people. http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/9/131553/ 4837/1#1

Here acroso supports a Paul-Kucinich ticket !

On Ron Paul Forum:As long as Paul is on the top of the ticket...and not the bottom of it...

 Sort of , earlier:

 On Ron Paul Forum: I hate Kucinich

Here acroso contradicts himself, again

 On Ron Paul Forum: uhhh..I hope H-beast wins to keep the Democrats demoralized too even tho i like Obama

Earlier he posts

 On Ron Paul Forum Obama sucks it, smokes, swallows it.

On TYT How did they manage to trick the voters into this new hope ( Obama ed.) filled bipartisan agenda. http://www.theyoungtu rks.com/comments/2007/2/6/1 1367/49130/2#2

Here acroso shows his true feelins about TYT
Q( to acroso):the young turks? those idiots on the young turks youtube??? what are you doing posting there? they always seem to be bashing paul
A:True.
Here Acroso trolls with CNN... on TYT he has called it Communist News Network and pro-terroristr after raving about Fox. Ok but...

 On Ron Paul Forum: I like CNN more than Fox. MSNBC has dipshits one and two- Olbermann and Mathews spewing their leftist venom.

On TYT: CNN can play the terrorists propaganda vids along side of the dem resolution supporting the terrorists.

the CNN sniper video of troops getting shot that was filmed by the terrorists in Iraq for propaganda. They want to break the American will so they give the tapes to the libs in our lib media who have like minded goals.  http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/1/5/19828/5 3784/2#2

Ron Paul Forum I've stopped watching television since I liked Paul lol. Everything it says annoys me so i look on net instead

Here Acroso shows his concern for the troops and their coming home from Iraq in this thread on how to deal with McCain supporters and showing his antiwar stripes to his Ron Paul friends in other posts:

On Ron Paul Forum :
Just ask them why so many soldiers are committing suicide over there and when they come home

To sabotage McStain too! Who wants to waste another 1-2 trillion in Iraq.

Tell him Iraq has cost 1.6 trillion, and McCain wants to dump another trillion in it over the next four years.

McCain keeps winning the anti-war vote....no idea why.

Less Jobs! More Wars! McCain 08'!
Thompson loves war and is a dumbass? yes..yes he is.

my ass....they want to stay in Iraq for 100 years.We're better off with Democrats at this point if not Paul

 

As noted above Acroso is against the war on the Ron Paul Forum. No crime in that , BUT compare those statements to his insults he posts on TYT 

 

Dems think our troops are "Nazis" http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/10/25/21313 4/43/102#102

The dems desire to defeat the troops in Iraq and Afganistan. They want to impeach Bush because that is another way to victory in the war against the war (or another way to defeat the U.S., whichever way you look at it.) http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/11/112312 /588/9#9

Pelosi has set a date for surrender to the terrorists in Iraq, Pelosi has set a date for surrender to the terrorists in Iraq, http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/11/112312 /588/2#2



Many Americans have lsot the will to fight the terrorists after the non-stop rhetoric coming from the left and the L&S divisions of our campuses http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/4/9/131553/ 4837/1#1

Nancy hangs the troops out to dry to let the Americans know who the dems really are and to lets the Islamos know that your party supports them http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/3/23/14658/ 5848/1#1

Go complain to Harry Reid who is heading up the defeat our troopsbillhttp://www.theyou ngturks.com/comments/2007/3 /2/941/60818/2#2

I posted his closing speech in the effort to stop the Dems pro-Al Qaeda resolution.http://www.theyo ungturks.com/comments/2007/ 2/25/61739/1922/54#54

Well if there is one thing the Dems don't do is " Caring about our country." They've been working on tearing apart the ideaof what it means to be American since way before the farewell speech of Reagan where he talked about the elimination of nationalpride and collective memory. http://www.theyoungt urks.com/comments/2007/2/17 /22318/8973/22#22

Well I do know why the dems voted for General Patraeus and his plan for a surge along with giving funding to president Bush for the troops surge yet pass resolutions opposing what they just did\approved. It's all politics. Their rabid anti-American base demands that the dems politicize the war and pretend to not support the troop http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2006/5/3/12955/5 1892/8#8

The dems are invested in defeat, and cheer it on http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2006/12/3/151518 /361/4#4

Which is it, he supports the war...or he doesnt. Well you can support the troops with out supporting the war...right? So how does acroso support the troops? To his Ron Paul friends he posts:

We need to gut the military to cut spending.

 

Yet on TYT the trolling never stops. Its hard to fight in Iraq..or anywhere else when you gut the military, dont you think?

 Democrats hindering the war effort, funding, and the troops we'd have won these years ago. What we need is a much larger standing army, more media control, and fewer rules. Unfortunately Al Qaeda has learned to game our media in order to dispirit the American people and the dems just act an amplifier for their message. http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/2/2/18320/2 3155/9#9

the Dem supported the troops by supporting their defeat in the 60s. Now they "support" the troops by supporting their defeatin the war on terror. It comes to reason that the Democrats DO NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.http://www.theyoungt urks.com/comments/2007/2/15 /175041/565/41#41

 The Dems mato is defeat. Common sense tells us they were going to surrender to the terrorists if they took power incongress.This defeatism means implementing dates for withdrawal and defunding the our troops. http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2007/3/28/102731 /281/11#11

 

Here acroso shows some geographic deception. This is same person who rails on about Democratic voter fraud on TYT


I'm voting Romney in Florida...That doesn't mean I'm not a RP supporter and big time donor....it just means I CAN'T FUCKING STAND JOHN MCCAIN

Ok...how do I become ( precinct captain) one.....in Tennessee...what I need to do Inform me please.

I want to be a delegate...or whatever it is...please explain what I must do...for Tennessee?

 Here acroso demonstrates his capacity for hate:

I hate Kucinich 

I hate Gravel.

I hate Mcain (38) 

If any thing acroso should be consistant on immigration, right? 

Ron Paul Forum: Close the border by using fencing, deport VISA overstayers

TYT :Build the fence, deport illegal aliens.

Deport illegal aliens after they serve their sentences rather than releasing them

As for deporting criminals- that's easy. Who the hell pays for them to sit in jail all that time.


 Here acroso complains about a troll! Now on TYT he screams censorship about the same type of activity.

The post on the Ron Paul Forum: RFP Blows!!! What once was an uplifting place for grassroot supporters to get together and support our cause has turned into a joke overrun by idiots and their conspiracies and Billionaire saviour posts.

Who runs this place? 12 year old kids?Nothing could be so disheartening than coming here looking for good RP info and see post after post of "Secret to winning", "Billionaires for Paul, coming shortly", "I've got a secret that will get RP elected" , ... Only to see fluff in one post after another.Yes, we certainly have earned the name Paultards for a reason.What a shame. We had something special going.
Sorry to the true RP supporters but I think you know what I'm talking about.

Acroso: TROLL=ban IP please.

And again 

 Post; The sheep have spoken: If Ron Paul can't do better than 5th place in SC with the kind of dismal voter turnout that occured here today, this campaign is done.I can't tell you how disappointing this is. Hopefully the "movement" will survive and continue.

Acroso : Troll! 

 

Here acroso speculates about Fox and Diebold collusion on controlling the vote.

Fox has shut down their forums...not letting anyone talk until the election is over.PANIC?Maybe Diebold doesn't control these states?

 

Here acroso isnt above a bit of GOP bashing on the Ron Paul forum. Plays well with the Pauliacs

 Post: Shepherd Smith was talking to Michigan folks in a bar.....the Democrat didn't vote, but the Republican voted for Ron Paul. He was clean cut, well spoken....it was wonderful!!!  

Acroso You mean he wasn't an AIDS infected communist who ...never mind.

Here Acroso quotes Think Progress..a website that when used as a reference on TYT he calls  "leftist and subversive"

McCain says that he will no longer adhere to his no new taxes primary pledge he made in the Republican primary.

Now he wants to raise your taxes! (link)

by MRFred on 03/23/2008 10:22:46 AM EST

[ Parent ]
hey Fred,

WTF? I dont know the whole history between you and Acroso, but you show yourself as intolerant as you accuse him of being by these repetitive posts.

So much for tolerant Liberals...

Dude, Take a Pill, Go find some pantless women and chill the fuck out...

Even Im not that high strung...

Thanks...

by bobo1 on 03/24/2008 12:33:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I don't know the whole history between you and Acroso

There is no history " between" us. I go through these jihads when I get fed up with the trolling.Here's a good example.  Usually he'll go away for a couple of weeks.I am hoping that Dave will finally enforce his trolling rules. Ive made my point lets see how it goes.

You can also not read the post, hows that. 

by MRFred on 03/24/2008 09:39:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
but having to skip through all of them just to get to legitimate posts is a pain in the ass... thats all...

Good sailing to you...

:)

by bobo1 on 03/24/2008 09:50:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Just do a "find" on the term [new] and it will jump you right to the new posts on the page, one at a time.  Very easy to skip to the ones you want to read.

"If you're not pumped up, then get the hell out, 'cause you don't belong here." -- Cenk Uygur

by Spinny on 03/24/2008 01:34:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I shall try that...

thanks

:)

by bobo1 on 03/24/2008 01:49:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
doesn't anyone find the clintons' love affair with mccain odd? i have thought for a while that this would be the year of the 'unity' ticket. what better way to trump obama's historic candidacy than... mccain-clinton 2008. i know it is ludicrous, and i may be insane, but the hillary i have been seeing in the last coupla months--- except for her closing statement in the la debate--- is not acting like a member of a party, nor is bill. in any event, i expect one or both of the candidates to cross party lines for a running mate. obama-hagel?

by silence donothing on 03/23/2008 11:02:07 PM EST

I have thought in passing about such a dream (disaster) ticket... I dont think it would happen, but that might just reaffirm McCains maverick Image and drag enough DLC Dems over to the Dark Side...

Obamas people would literally shit bricks if she pulled something like that...

I was gonna post a thread questioning McCain VP choices here, but Im afraid that might overload the ObamaBots programming!!! :)

thanks...

by bobo1 on 03/24/2008 12:29:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]

First of all -- "The Math" -- from Peter Daou:

FACT: The delegate math reflects an extremely close race that either candidate can win.

"The Math" is actually very simple: with hundreds of delegates still uncommitted, NEITHER candidate has reached the number of delegates required to secure the nomination. And EITHER candidate can reach the required number in the coming weeks and months. That is indisputable. No amount of editorials, articles, blog posts, charts, graphs, calculations, formulas, or projections will change the basic fact that either candidate can win. Pundits who confidently proclaim that Hillary has no hope of winning because of "the math," have counted Hillary out of this race three times before. Each time they based their sober assessments on 'facts' and 'realities' -- and each time they were wrong.

In a campaign with dozens of unexpected twists and turns, bold prognostications should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism. Look no further than Sen. Obama's "full assault" on Hillary's character to judge whether he thinks this election is over. The fact is this: Hillary and Sen. Obama are locked in a very close, hard-fought campaign and Hillary is demonstrating precisely the strength of character required of a president. Her resilience in the face of adversity, her faith in the voters, her capacity to rise to every challenge, are part of the reason she is the best general election candidate for Democrats. And it is why she is increasingly strong against John McCain in the polls at the same time that Sen. Obama is dropping against Sen. McCain.

 Second -- This is a perfect setup for Team Obama -- make it CW that Hillary is only staying in the race to damage Obama so badly he can't win the GE. So then, if Obama wins the nomination, when he loses the GE, which he will, it is already truth (to Obama supporters) that it was all Hillary's fault! So quick! So easy! It makes one think many of you know he can't win, and are all ready with the excuses.

Only problem is, there are over 12 million Hillary supporters who aren't going to buy it. Good try, though! 

 

by jen on 03/24/2008 05:27:02 PM EST

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