Quick Carville "Judas" Note

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This may have been noted by other commentators - even Cenk, but I haven't heard it said and just wanted to point out what I think the underlying point of Carville's ugly analogy between Bill Richardson and Judas Iscariot.


Look, Carville has a sharp tongue but this one goes beyond the bounds of a decent intra-party race between two candidates.  So why did he say it and, more importantly, why did he reiterate the point (confirmed that he MEANT exactly what he said and that he was not taken out of context)? 

Note that he went on to say that he is only a "periphery" player in the Clinton campaign and that he was speaking "his own opinion".  Well, sure, it's so outrageous that the campaign has to distance itself from the comment.  But no one in the Clinton campaign (let alone the witch) came to Richardson's defense.

So here's what I see - Hillary's own way of playing the fear card.  Several prominent Democrats have now come out and endorsed Obama.  But there isn't exactly a flood of Hillary defections.  So I believe Richardson was intentionally and specifically targeted as the guy they would smear for one reason - to send a message to the probable hoards of others (many of them former members of the Clinton Administration or, at the least, beneficiaries of 8 years of Clinton Presidency).  She's trying to cower others into withholding their support for Obama.  Other Dems have to at least ask themselves, "if I now endorse Obama, does the Clinton machine attack me for it"?

It makes sense in a GOP, Karl Rove, sort of way.  And Hillary and Attack Dog Bill are looking more and more like EXACTLY THAT.  From Bill's statements likening Barack Obama to Jesse Jackson,  to "SHAME ON YOU",  to the picture of Obama in African garb,  to jumping on the Reverend Wright "controversy",  to Bill's "it would be nice to have two candidates who both love the country" - it's Rovian in the fullest sense and, thus, would be highly unsurprising if the attack on Richardson was NOT orchestrated at the highest level of the campaign.

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I dont think there is any doubt in anyones mind about who was behind this...Hillary herself...Carville doesnt speak unless he is directed to by the campaign...

In spite of this action, though, did Carville lie? Did he not speak the truth about what Richardson had done? Bill Richardson was a nobody until the Clintons promoted him... Do you think he would have his current position as Governor without the Clinton Machine behind him? Oh Please...

Politics is Politics, of course, but if theres any sense of loyalty within the party, it has been shattered by this kind of endorsement... furthering my thoughts that the Democratic party will not exist as it does today after this election cycle - The "Moderate DLC/Blue Dog" types and the "Progressives" are prime for a split. If thats good or bad is up to you...

Wasn't it Richardson out there saying that the Superdelegates had to vote as their constituents had so not to "thwart the will of the people?" Who won in New Mexico?


I wonder what Richardson got from Obama - VP? Sec of State? You know that what happened, guys - anyone who denies this is just fooling themselves...

I hope it was worth the 30 Silver Pieces, Bill...

thanks :)

by bobo1 on 03/27/2008 04:12:49 PM EST


Wasn't it Richardson out there saying that the Superdelegates had to vote as their constituents had so not to "thwart the will of the people?" Who won in New Mexico?

That's a Hillary load of shit.  "Superdelegates" have no duty to "represent their states".  Do you think that when they say their are about 250 Supers in Hillary's camp right now and 220 in Obama's, that they mean this is due to the STATE they are from?  It has NOTHING to do with that!  Superdelegates are their to vote their own individual consciences.  If not, they would be "Supers"... they'd just be another "state" (pledged) delegate.


As far as loyalty, well, that pretty much means all of the Party Democrats should line up behind Hillary because of everything that HER HUSBAND did for those Dems in the 90's!  LOL!  You have to be kidding, right?  And, if Chelsea runs in 15 years, Bill Richardson damn well better line up behind her too, right? 


Look, the one fair point you make is that it's politics and Richardson certainly should expect to get something when Obama is President.  But come on.  The same would be true if he supported Hillary and SHE became President.  Like you said, that part is just politics as usual.  So, what you need to do is look at why he lines up behind one or the other.  He chose Obama because is SO CLEAR he is the nominee.  And he'll do just fine as long as Tanya Hillary leaves the legs alone....

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 03/27/2008 04:44:35 PM EST

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Richardson was out there in Full force when he was a candidate and immediately afterward saying that the Superdelegates needed to vote with their states wishes as not to thwart the will of the public vote...He was on several TV News shows saying that very thing!!!

There is no spin here, happy... Its the truth...

I know how the Superdelegate system works. Obama and Richardson just cant have it both ways - they cant say one thing 2 months ago and then spew the other now and act like its OK to do a 180... yes I know they are politicians, but they are so hypocritical it is embarrasing... and They need to be called out on it...

This race is far from over, people...get used to it!

:)



by bobo1 on 03/27/2008 06:10:30 PM EST

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mark this down.

That's a Hillary load of shit.  "Superdelegates" have no duty to "represent their states".  Do you think that when they say their are about 250 Supers in Hillary's camp right now and 220 in Obama's, that they mean this is due to the STATE they are from?  It has NOTHING to do with that!  Superdelegates are their to vote their own individual consciences.  If not, they would be "Supers"... they'd just be another "state" (pledged) delegate.

by LORD FOUL on 03/27/2008 06:17:53 PM EST

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Look, Carville has a sharp tongue but this one goes beyond the bounds of a decent intra-party race between two candidates. 

Good God man, it's simple English?
Carville called the man a Judas.
Even people that English is a second language can understand the metaphor.

I know it gets a little old but let's look at the definition of the word shall we?

The Free Dictionary and the American Heritage Dictionary share  this definition

Ju·das One who betrays another under the guise of friendship.

While Dictionary.com gives us this
1. Also called Judas Iscariot. the disciple who betrayed Jesus. Mark 3:19

2.a person treacherous enough to betray a friend; traitor.

So the argument here is 1.That Richardson didn't betray a friend, or 2.That the Dictionary definition is inaccurate, or 3.The followers of "he that must not be named" are trying to play a little game of mock political outrage.

I choose 3.

by Hubble on 03/27/2008 07:23:12 PM EST

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The argument is  comparing someone to Judas on easter is lowwwww

get it?

by Chinese Democracy on 03/27/2008 11:14:28 PM EST

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I love how the Hillary backers are squirming (as they should be). 

Yeah, argue about my comments on the real job of the Superdelegates and what Richardson said about them, argue about whether calling a fellow democrat a traitor is overly dirty or just an insult, BUT DON'T deal with the essence of the post! 

What's the essence?  Read the last paragraph and argue with that. 

Hillary and Bill and Carville and the rest of their "old boy and girl" network are roughly fighting the with the same tactics as you can expect from a Republican. 

Hey, if you want Hillary so badly that you can watch that without squirming (you know you can't - not if there is an ounce of decency in you) then by all means ENJOY the next few months and Obama will STILL be the nominee.  Though no doubt a very badly damaged nominee.

I'm OK with Hillary going through every remaining contest and stating her case to the people.  But, interesting that she has been wholly unable to do so by JUST stating the case.  Is it because she has lost the intellectual battle?  I don't know.  I only know she reminds me a lot of the Republicans.   

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 03/28/2008 01:48:40 AM EST


I agree with wholeheartedly about the superdelegates

No squirming from me, I don't want Hillary that badly but then again I don't want Obama that badly either.

Yup she has lost the intellectual battle, she points out his inexperience and intellectuals cry, she points out that wright may be a problem and intellectuals cry.

She's labeled a racist and intellectuals turn their collective heads. She's called a bitch and intellectuals sigh.

When was the last time the Dem "left" choose a winning candidate?

by LORD FOUL on 03/28/2008 08:35:36 AM EST

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If you are willing to agree she's running a despicable campaign, then I'll accept that and defer answer on the electability of candidates from the "left".

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 03/28/2008 01:34:50 PM EST

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What has been so despicable about her campaign, seriously?

The 3 am ad? the one that was labeled racist despite the fact that a black child was depicted in the video?

Or was it the one where she said that her and McCain have experience?

Or is it because she won't quit in the 7th inning?

Let us be serious for one moment. I guess it has been the easter bunny labeling everything she says and does as racist?

remember Ferraro, how racist she was. Now go back and check. You will discover that Obama himself stated that if he was white he just would have been "just another freshman Senator" and that he has benefitted from his race.

Honestly she has been smeared 6 ways to Sunday by Liberals. Not to mention the media abuse.

So you really think Obama is a victim here. You ain't seen nothing yet.

by LORD FOUL on 03/28/2008 02:22:57 PM EST

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I'll point out that the left has NEVER had the opportunity of running a candidate on the heels of a GOP President with a 20% approval rating!

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 03/28/2008 01:37:30 PM EST

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so then there is no excuse right.

Remember Bush isn't running. McCain will pivot left after the convention. (watch John Kerry)

It will be McCain the war hero vs the unpatriotic/white hating Obama

Can Obama beat McCain in Ohio, Pa, Fla. Mich? If not game over.

Then everyone here will blame it on Hillary

by LORD FOUL on 03/28/2008 02:30:30 PM EST

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Do you agree with my point that Carville public denunciation of Richardson as a traitor to Hillary was a calculated ploy to try to prevent others in the Party from supporting Obama?  If you answer "yes", do you think it's a fear tactic?

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 03/30/2008 04:59:16 PM EST

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