Sogokakutogi: Rick and Cenk's Moronic Take

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Rick Overton mines the dimmer recesses of his mind for an absurd take on mixed martial arts.  What does he discover?  That he is subject to the same media manipulation he has spent the last 3 hours railing against.  Odd.

For those of you who don't know me, and I do mean "know" in the Biblical sense here so I would wager that is 70-75% of you (to the remaining 15%, hey, how ya been, I've been meaning to call) I train at Purebred Kyoto, one of the better known mixed martial arts gyms in the world.  Therefor I see it as my role to comment on Rick Overton's misguided commentary on my sport on Friday's show.

Rick began the show by strongly arguing that most people were the subjects of media manipulation.  That most information that the main-stream media supplies is mistaken, wrong, or a blatant lie.  I accept that argument.  Mr. Overton then used the post-game show to show that he, like any mere mortal, was subject to the same underhanded manipulation.

 To begin with, there is no sport known as "Ultimate Fighting."  There is a mixed martial arts fight promotion company called "The Ultimate Fighting Championship."  In English the sport is MMA.  In Japanese, Sogokakutogi, in Brazilian Portuguese, Vale Tudo.  The UFC would be very happy if you kept referring to the sport as "Ultimate Fighting" however, just as the NFL would love it if football were to become, "National Football Leaguing."  Unfortunately, and as usual, the media itself can not actually delve into an issue for context,  so commonly term an entire sport by this erroneous moniker. 

MMA rose to popularity in the U.S. due to the efforts of the Gracie family who believed that their interpretation of jiu-jitsu was the most effective martial art in the world.  Up until the mid-Nineties, most people had been persuaded that true martial arts were mystical Chinese men who could touch your sternum and make your heart stop beating, or dedicated young men whose countless fingertip push-ups enabled them to rip out an attackers throat.  The Gracies took a very progressive approach to the issue that I would equate favorably with the current rise of scientific skepticism.  They made the proposition, "If that's the case, prove it."  To this end they began the UFC and invited martial artists from multiple disciplines to take on family representative Royce Gracie.  Over the next few years Gracie proved that a smaller man with technical acumen and a knowledge of human anatomy could render other martial arts virtually useless.  He also brought the martial arts world into the age of reality, into its own Age of Enlightenment, in which rumor and speculation were no longer sufficient.  Proof and practicality were.  That seems to me a very progressive, a very leeebril proposition.

Now, people like Overton, at the not so subtle urging of the press, make claims along the lines of, "You are teaching kids to punch people when they are down.  That's not American."  What is American then?  The John Wayne model in which you, standing of course,, punch someone in the head until they have too much brain damage to stand and then say, "Okay, I guess you've had enough." Or is it the kung-fu movie model in which you snatch out someone's eyeball and hold it before their screaming face?  Neither of these model's seem particularly noble, nor are they realistic.  The Gracie family began with the oft-stated proposition that 90% of fights go to the ground.  That being the case, one should learn how to fight from there.  What Overton, and other critics, fail to realize, wither deliberately or out of their own ignorance, is that the person on the bottom of a fight in jiu-jitsu has every bit as much chance to win as the person on the top.  That seems rather more inspiring to me than the John Wayne model.  Also, in jiu-jitsu, a fight is over whenever one competitor says it is.  While submissions might look contorted and violent, they are rarely severe and seldom injure people.  Compare that to football, which we cheer without any problem.  We teach our children to play it.  To hit anyone with the ball. To try to knock people hard enough to give them concussions.  At practice, elementary school children play 'bull in the ring.'  Don't get me wrong, I love football, but there is nothing about it that is less violent, or less dangerous. 

Current MMA is based on this structure of jiu-jitsu.  Usually when you see someone in the top position punching someone on the bottom, it is not because they are trying to injure them severely, it is because they are trying to bring an end to the fight.  Under the rules, if a competitor cannot intelligently defend himself, the fight is over.  It is not boxing in which the fighter is stood up and beaten on some more.  It is not football in which you can go to the sidelines, puke, and go back in the game.  Also, often times, punching from the top is just a way to get your opponent on the bottom to change positions, giving you a more strategic position to win the fight by submission.It isn't out of one's thirst for blood.  Of course, if one is uncomfortable in this position, all one has to do is tap-out.

I completely agree that one being uncomfortable with children's participation is completely valid.  When is it okay to compete in football?   When is it okay to stand in a batter's box and allow another child to through a hard ball at you?  When is it okay to wrestle?  When is it okay to go into the ocean with a surfboard?  These are all valid, parental concerns.  When I was in elementary school, my friends and I spent our time going to the largest sand dune in town and jumping off the top.  When we got tired of that, we would string a rope from a tree on the top to a tree on the bottom and swing down holding onto a pulley.  Looking back it seems inadvisable.  Any martial arts done by children should be done with professional supervision and the utmost concern for safety.  The children should also be firmly aware of the differences between a sport, self-defense, and violence and bullying.  Any sensei or teacher that is any good should put this foremost in children's minds.

I teach at a junior high in Japan and also participate in their judo club.  I wonder if Mr. Overton's criticism applies to Judo.  A component of the sport is throwing your opponent to the ground and from there, submitting them.  Is this instilling bad manners in the children?  If so, millions of kids all over Japan are being corrupted.  You can see the nation, awash in violence, that it has produced.  I am fortunate to have participated in MMA.  I can say that, sitting here, I can't think of a bad person I have met in the sport.  I can't think of people more composed within themselves and without a desire to act out on other people. People like Mike Kyle, who punched an opponent after the fight was over, or Babalu Sobral who held onto a choke for an extra second, are reviled in the sport.  They are villains who lose their contracts and any fan support they might have had.   Just because MSNBC and The Huffington Post publicize stories about that are sensational in nature and critical of a sport doesn't mean that one has to jump on the bandwagon and shout down that sport.  I would invite anyone who harbors unease about the sport to try one day of jiu-jitsu and a reputable school.  There are many in LA.  When you see the dedication, the commitment and the intelligence required in a discipline where it can take 10-15 years to earn a black belt, when you see the good-nature and the willingness to teach and to learn, with he capacity to be humble in the people involved, I think you will be far less likely to be led around by the nose by whatever new scare the media dreams up for us.

War Superfly Snuka.

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Poll

Rick Overton's Point is Weaker Than...
James Thompson's Chin. 0%
Royce Gracie's Stand-Up. 20%
Frank Shmarock's Takedowns. 0%
Cung Le's Ground Game. 0%
BJ Penn's Cardio. 0%
Matt Hughes' Punches 0%
Tim Sylvia's Popularity. 0%
Chuck Lidell's Head Tattoo. 40%
Phil Baroni's Act. 0%
Shinashi Satoko's Marriage After She Meets Me. 40%

Votes: 5
Results | Other Polls
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You are probably the only person in the world who is capable of taking this (and by "this," I mean "a comedian's half-considered opinion on martial arts training for kids") this seriously.

by jarett on 03/31/2008 04:16:46 AM EST


This thread makes me miss the daily EV update thread.

by ProfRich on 03/31/2008 10:03:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Hey man, put yourself in Wes's shoes.  If Rick Overton made an errant comment about Guilty Gear XX: The Midnight Carnival (one of very few subjects upon which I am very confident in my expertise) I'd come out guns blazing, too.

by OneHitKill on 03/31/2008 10:08:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I withdraw my comment.

Also, Guilty Gear ftw.

by jarett on 04/01/2008 05:10:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?  I don't know, but why be a regulator if you ain't gonna mount up?  You know what I'm sayin'...

by wes in japan on 03/31/2008 06:38:18 AM EST


For a poll to be effective, the questions must have relevance to the subjects of the survey.

I'm sure that the questions are hilarious but to most of us the names could not be more obscure. For all we know those folks could be players cut from arena football teams or guest decorators on Home and Garden Network.

by MRFred on 03/31/2008 09:29:27 AM EST


But since we are playing Chuck Norris:

 Chuck wrecked the periodic table because they left of the element of SUPRISE!!!!

 No get with the program.  I wasn't playing.  The media manipulates even those who recognize that the media manipulates...suckas.

by wes in japan on 03/31/2008 09:52:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I think its cool to watch people beat the shit out of each other.

by ProfRich on 03/31/2008 11:19:54 AM EST

[ Parent ]
It's really that simple.  No armor, no swords and no lions, but there you have it.

The funny thing is, while the spectacle may have changed a bit (no one generally dies), the crowd hasn't changed much over the centuries.

by ihavenobias on 03/31/2008 12:11:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I worked a project in LA for 12 weeks..Jezzus..thats full contact sport if I ever say it.

by MRFred on 03/31/2008 02:48:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]

That makes sense because Chuck Norris has no weaknesses.  Here are a few facts about Chuck Norris:

Chuck Norris invented the Caesarean section when he roundhouse-kicked his way out of his monther's womb.

Chuck Norris doesn't bowl strikes, he just knocks down one pin and the other nine faint.

Chuck Norris played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.

When taking the SAT, write "Chuck Norris" for every answer. You will score over 8000.

Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.

When the boogeyman goes to bed at night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris. 

 

Other Chuck Norris facts can be had here. 

 

by bfaul on 03/31/2008 09:44:43 AM EST



WTF are you talkin' 'bout, Willis? Norris doesn't have anything to do with MMA.

by MedfordTim on 03/31/2008 12:10:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
but guns don't kill people, Chuck Norris kills people.

by z1p101 on 03/31/2008 01:47:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"WTF are you talkin' 'bout, Willis? Norris doesn't have anything to do with MMA."

Yeah, that's the joke. 

by bfaul on 03/31/2008 02:26:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Now it is a Chuck Norris joke thread.  Thanks guys.

by wes in japan on 03/31/2008 01:52:54 PM EST


I'm sorry, I'll shut up about Chuck Norris.  I just like that joke page.

by bfaul on 03/31/2008 02:27:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Take comfort in knowing that at least one the the participants in this forum and thread is well aware of the intricate chess matches which occur on the ground and holds great respect for the people who enter the ring.

Do I wish the "cage" concept had never seen the light of day? Sure. I much prefer the K-1 style rings, but a good bout is a good bout no matter where it's held.

I think the people here are under the impression that the focus is to go out and TRY to maim/kill the opponent. We know better. We know that the best matches are the ones where the moves of the contestants are the real thrill. I can remember one extremely intense match where NO punches were thrown.

I'm comfortable in assuming that you deplore the "highlight" reels which focus on the knockouts (entertaining as they are) to the exclusion of a well maneuvered arm-bar or rear naked choke...

Bas would be proud of us.

by MedfordTim on 03/31/2008 03:04:24 PM EST


...but knowing THAT, I know better than to argue against the fine points that Wes made.

Look, I've seen just enough sensational material on the sport to know that I don't know the facts.  Is boxing worse?  It could be.  I don't know.

Carry on, Wes.  Whatever floats your boat.  As long as you aren't forcing kids to participate (even if you think it has value) then I really don't care and have nothing against your sport that would be rational.

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 03/31/2008 03:40:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Much, much worse.  Every medical study will tell you so.  Think about it.  Boxing is won by punching someone in the head until you cause them brain damage.  Until they are concussed enough to not be able to stand.  That or by punching them to the body enough to damage their internal organs beyond the point of functioning properly.  MMA lasts only 3 rounds and has no standing 8 count.  ANy flash knock-down is the end of a fight.  The worst submissions ever seen would only result in a broken arm.  A broken arm.  Something you could get playing pick-up basketball.  In boxing, if you are being beaten, you have no recourse but to take it.  In MMA, if someone is punching you silly, you can take him to the mat.  If he is too much there, you can tap out, ot the ref will stop the fight.

 As for children being involved, I think that is a family decision.  Do we object to children in wrestling?  Or tae kwon do, or judo or karate or football or hockey?  I think these are all family decisions and should be supervised appropriately.  My (imaginary)kid is definitly going to be doing jiu-jitsu and learning how to punch and kick from an early age.  As long as they are into it, they can keep going.

by wes in japan on 04/01/2008 12:26:18 AM EST

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