Rachel Maddow clears the air about Bitter-Gate.

Email Print posted by thinkingblue 04/15/2008 10:52:47 AM EST

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Rachel Maddow clears the air about bitter-gate.

But will they listen? Not JOE SCHMO SCARBOROUGH... As always he has his own stubborn mindset and refuses to make rational something that smacks him right in his pathetic puss! Thank goodness MSNBC has Rachel on its panel to give those who THINK a breath of fresh air! thinkingblue.blogspot.com

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
He's our Man.  
Who can make Change?
Obama can! 
 

HE'S OUR MAN !!!!  
YES WE CAN !!!    
VOTE HIM IN !!!
WE WILL WIN !!!

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Rachel Maddow clears the air about Bitter-Gate. | 26 comments (26 topical, 0 hidden)
Good stuff by Rachel (none / 1)
Rachel Maddow was excellent in this video.  But her argument is complicated. It's much easier to understand "Obama is elitist and condescending."  Regular folk always cling to simple concepts.

by yturks on 04/15/2008 12:18:18 PM EST

Sad but true (none / 0)
It's annoying how that applies to SO MANY arguments we have with conservatives.  They appeal to emotion (obviously liberals do too, don't get me wrong) and it works better because:

1)-They frame the issues in a more simplistic way that appeals to many voters.

2)-The issues they choose to argue are easier to frame to begin with. For example, "they want to kill babies" and "they want gays to take over" and "all the libs want to do is raise your taxes and take your heard earned money and waste it on BS". Oh yeah, and, "they want to take Gods out of schools/they hate God".

I could go on, but you get the idea.

A lot of the arguments on the left are more complicated and nuanced, sometimes because they have to be and other times because (unfortunately) some people just don't know how to distill and frame issues.  They go on to argue from the conservative frame, and often lose for that very reason.

PS---I watched Maddow do this live yesterday and she was awesome.  You know who else nailed the bitter issue?  They did.

by ihavenobias on 04/15/2008 12:35:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Obama was not perfect (none / 0)
By the way, to repeat, there was something a tiny bit condescending about Obama's comment.  He's suggesting that the habits and rituals some people participate in are not genuine, but a refuge from difficult economic circumstances.  If all these people were richer, they'd go windsurfing off the Cape.

David

by yturks on 04/15/2008 02:57:06 PM EST

OK (none / 0)

It seems to me the little coverage I have seen is Pennsylvanians reacted by saying, "Yeah, he's right.  The governments totally been screwing us."

Am I making that up? 

by ProfRich on 04/15/2008 03:12:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't think he's suggesting that at all (none / 0)

Although, I can see how some might take it that way, I don't think he was saying that those things weren't genuine.  The way I heard it, he was saying that, when everything else is going to hell, that people cling tighter to issues like guns and religion because it's what they know and can count on.  It's a way of making things black and white in a world that's gotten so grey they can't see the light anymore.

What do these people vote on?  Guns and God.  The rest of it is too complicated and nuanced when you're spending all of your time trying to raise a family and keep your head above water.

People keep saying he was belittling these people.  Sounds to me like he was trying to offer some understanding into why they vote against their best interests by focusing on guns, religion, etc. 

by pmdtrans on 04/15/2008 06:16:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
good interpretation (none / 0)
pmdtrans, I like your interpretation. The big problem is not that fact that people turn to god, guns and gay hating. The problems are that people vote on that basis, and that Republicans exploit and stir those sentiments up.  Obama was on to a very important issue, but he should have come at from a slightly different angle.

David

by yturks on 04/15/2008 06:28:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You sure? (none / 0)

I mean that he failed to get his message across.

I am holding my fire.  Mostly because I am not in the habit of telling people how they feel about stuff.

I am gonna go ahead and listen to them tell me.

So far, they (the people of PA) seem like they might just be agreeing with him.  Funny enough every one on here starts with, "Of course Obama's right..."

Even the people who hate him say that, more or less.

Then they proceed on to "but these people are so stupid and backwards that they won't be able to see that and will hate him forever because he used the word cling."

And you people think Obama is the judgemental elitist?

Y'all should take a step back and look at what reaction is coming from where.  I think y'all might have missed the boat on this one. 

by ProfRich on 04/15/2008 06:39:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
SAD (none / 0)
so sad we have to dumb down everything to appeal to the middle of the country. doesnt seem like we are able to do this. do we even want to do this.

the country is falling apart and all poeple are doing is look for a reason to vote for mcsentry. is it that bad did reagan do that good of a job dumbing down the country. seems that way.. people arent going to learn there lession till we fall apart Completely.

remember you get the goverment you deserve...

by Bungle on 04/15/2008 04:30:59 PM EST

Maddow put him in his place (none / 0)
Rachel threw out a reminder to thinking (keyword here) people that Joe Scarborough has absolutely nothing of substance to say, much like Sean Hannity. All his commentary subsists of are putdowns, scoffs, and eyerolls.  In the face of facts *run!  i'm scurred!* he goes to all he knows how to do.

It's all bullshit , but the sycophant/republican base eats it all up...but you all already know that.

By the by, Obama's comment was spot-on.  Stereotypes are only dangerous in the hands of people who aren't bright enough to read between the lines.  And that's a lot of people, hence the anger at his statement.

Was he condescending?  Yeah...but he spoke the truth.  Obama was dead-ass right.  Most bible-thumping gun nuts are poorly educated and turn to simple concepts and ideas to explain away the awful situation they're in.

God forbid these rednecks accept personal responsibility and blame themselves for voting against their own self-interests.  Oh nooo, that'd be inconvenient.

by mathcore on 04/15/2008 05:48:32 PM EST

I dont know if we saw the same video, guys? (none / 0)
I like Rachel Maddow, I listen to her often, and she is certainly not wrong in the clip provided, but Joe Scarborough wins the point hands down here - he said at the end concisely what Obamas problem is, and you pointy headed liberals just aren't listening - he laid it out as clear as the day...

Obama does not connect with average people...

Even if Obama was totally right about what he said (as he was this time), he still said it wrong and this story is not going to go away easily. He has shown a side of him which he better keep to himself or else he is going to have a hard time in the fall...

Why cant you guys see the problem here? Open your damn eyes and realize that he is going to go the way of Dukakis and Kerry if he continues these trends - Thats the simple truth to this whole matter!!!

Thanks!

:)

by bobo1 on 04/15/2008 09:34:59 PM EST

He has more of the popular vote (none / 0)
Is the average person is, well, average...I'll let you fill in the blank.

by ihavenobias on 04/15/2008 09:42:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Among Liberal democrats during primaries... (none / 0)
That hardly cuts it for the general election and you know it, bias... 

He has won amongst Democrats - not everyone when it counts...

Dont be disingenuous, it doesnt become you well...

:(

by bobo1 on 04/15/2008 10:03:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
OK (none / 0)

Who polls better among independents?

Who polls better among Republicans?

Who does better in head to head polls with McCain?

Bobo if I thought you had any clue at all I would accuse you of being disingenuous. 

by ProfRich on 04/15/2008 10:49:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
you guys are correct (none / 0)
Scarborough demolished Maddow.

In politics, the simple, straightforward, common-sense, logical argument always destroys the tortured, nuanced, parsed, wordy, overly-detailed argument.

Works in the courtroom.

Works in sales.

Works in politics.

by KenTX on 04/15/2008 10:03:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
In other words (none / 0)
Hulk Smash!

Hulk Destroy!

by ihavenobias on 04/15/2008 10:14:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Listen again. (none / 1)
Listen to the clip again. It provides a perfect illustration of the difference bewteen liberal and conservative debating styles.

Rachel Maddow is the best mouthpiece you guys have in your bullpen. Her arguments were blown away by Joe Scarborough. He was calm, quiet, polite, respectful. By contrast, she was talking 10,000 words per minute.

Logic always prevails over word count in a debate.

by KenTX on 04/15/2008 10:33:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Again (none / 1)
Hulk Calm!

Hulk Quiet!

Hulk Polite & Respectful!

by ihavenobias on 04/15/2008 10:34:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hulk always wins... (none / 1)
When have you ever seen the Hulk lose?

My point, exactly...

:)

by bobo1 on 04/15/2008 10:36:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Trust me (none / 0)
Hulk can lose.

by ihavenobias on 04/15/2008 10:49:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Jesus!!! (none / 0)
What are you like 15???I was talking about the Green Hulk - Bill Bixby Hulk - with the ugly purple shorts!!!

God, I just aged myself!!!!

:)

by bobo1 on 04/16/2008 12:27:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Look (none / 0)

This provides a perfect illustration of the difference bewteen liberal and conservative senses of humor.

ihavenobias made a joke, and bobo demonstrated that he didn't get it.

Viva Obama!    ;)

by Spencer on 04/16/2008 02:09:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes (none / 0)

Hulk just got beat badly at the end of World War Hulk.  Tony Stark beat him by being smarter.

Hulk smash puny fake democrats!!!

Hulk most liberal one there is!!! 

by ProfRich on 04/15/2008 10:52:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No he doesn't (none / 1)

Hulk's lack of projectile attacks makes him easy fodder for characters like Cable and Ryu.

Hulk....dead? 

by OneHitKill on 04/15/2008 10:57:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
GEEK!!!! (none / 0)

by bobo1 on 04/16/2008 12:28:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Cable is for cheaters (none / 0)

Strider Hiryu like a muhfucka.

Also, bobo needs to realize that he's on the internet.  If you're going to start geek hating, you're in for a long long night. 

by Spencer on 04/16/2008 02:04:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]
you forgot (none / 0)
Hulk roll eyes!

Hulk scoff!

Hulk use sarcasm!

bias, thanks to you, I will now call him Hulk Scarbourogh

by richardshort2001 on 04/15/2008 11:21:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Rachel Maddow clears the air about Bitter-Gate. | 26 comments (26 topical, 0 hidden)
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