The "What He Said" Game

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Every election cycle the Republicans play the same game of distraction. They want to distract people from what they have done, so they turn the focus on to what their opponents said, or what someone who can nominally be linked to their opponents said.

And every year, the press dutifully plays along.

The ABC debate last night might have been the most egregious example because it seemed like it was the only thing they asked about, but the whole election so far has been littered with these false controversies. All of this plays exactly into the hands of the Republicans. Don't worry about what we did to this country, look away, instead spend all your time getting angry about what someone said.

What did Rev. Wright say, what did a man from the Weather Underground say, what did Obama say about bitter people, what did Hillary say about Bosnia? And now, it's even sillier - what did they wear? First, it was Hillary wearing something that theoretically showed cleavage - and this was supposed to prove how cunning she is. And now it's whether Obama wears a flag lapel pin.

The thing that I keep wondering about is whether the actors in this play realize they are in a theater of the absurd and dutifully do their parts or if they are all naifs who are being played themselves.

Does Stephanopoulos realize that he is helping the Republican election strategy by asking an insane and inane question about whether Obama wears an American flag? Or does he have no clue as to how he is being spun? It's all in the question, George. In case you don't know, let me make you aware, the answer is irrelevant, the Republicans win when you ask the question because 1) it sets Obama up as unpatriotic and makes him look defensive when he answers that he is patriotic - it's like asking him whether he beats his wife 2) it distracts from the real issues and gets people to vote the wrong way based on superficialities rather than the real issues that affect their lives.

This Republican administration, aided and abetted the whole way by the Republicans in Congress, has led us into a disastrous war in Iraq. 4,000 Americans killed, 30,000 wounded, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed. Think about that for a second. Hundreds of thousands of civilians - women, children, brothers, sisters, aunts, grandfathers - all killed based on a tremendous, world changing mistake by the Republicans, George W. Bush and John McCain (and Hillary Clinton). And they're asking what Obama is wearing?

It's the game of don't look at what we've done, look at what he said. If we don't all rise up and rebel against it, they are going to keep playing this game forever. They asked Obama about what his neighbor said about something his neighbor had done forty years ago. Do you know all the things your neighbor has said and done? And what would you do if you did know? Give him a sound thrashing?

Meanwhile, Rome is burning. The economy is a mess. The dollar is crashing because we have spent far too much money and borrowed even more for wars that did more harm than good. And now Charlie Gibson asks, no demands, that Clinton and Obama pledge to never, ever raise taxes. He says that revenues always rise when you lower capital gains taxes. Really? Would they rise even more if we lower the rate to 1%? How about 0%?

Does Charlie Gibson know that Republicans lower taxes irresponsibly every time they get into office and then blame the Democrats for raising them because the economy is crashing when they get into office? Does he know this shell game? Does he know his question is loaded to make it appear that the Democrats want to take your money and that everything would be fine if we just stopped taxing everyone? Does he ever ask the Republicans to take a pledge to not cut taxes if the budget isn't balanced? Think about that one for a second. You have to think about it because it has never, ever been asked of the Republicans.

But what a relief it was when they did ask the loaded policy questions because they were at least policy questions. I timed it. It took 52 minutes into the debate before the ABC "News" folks asked a single question on the issues. They were a parody of themselves. It was embarrassing to watch.

Will someone ask John McCain - yes or no, if you had to do Iraq war over again, would you do it? I don't want to hear about how McCain complained about Rumsfeld and how he would have done the war so much better. I want to know, knowing what you know now, would you have invaded Iraq? Shoot, they won't even ask him to apologize for what his pastor said or what his neighbor said, let alone ask him the most relevant question there is.

This game sickens me. All I want to know now is whether the so-called news folks are in on it or if they are fools being played like clueless puppets. I want to know whether I should be angry or sad. Imagine how embarrassed they must feel this morning if none of this had ever occurred to them and for the first time they realized they've been played for fools all along. That the Republicans call them names, accuse them of being biased and then have them do their bidding every year -- and then laugh at them behind their back and talk about how pathetic they are.

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Given the state of the economy and Iraq, McCain will bite the big one, either figuratively or literally in his first term.

It should be obvious to every one that with the collusion of Stepahnopolos and ABC , Clinton is engaging in a scorched earth campaign. She came out on the offensive  engaging in these  tactics to ensure that Obama  will lose in the general.

This is probably based on the damage already done by her campaign and her age. Polls show Democratic chances are diminishing daily the longer the blood letting goes on. Age wise, Obama is only 48 so his " candicacy"  window is much larger than Clinton's.  Short of an Obama meltdown, Clinton is finished. Unless Obama loses in 2008 Clintons last chance, realistically speaking is 2012. It's a cold political calculation, and refutes any "concern" that Clinton expresses for the state of the nation.

She is perfectly willing to toss the American people under the bus to further her ambition. Unfortunately, there will be very little of our Republic left after 4 more years of Bush polices.

by MRFred on 04/17/2008 12:07:50 PM EST

I say this because I am agreeing unconditionally with Fred... Now I know the country is going to Hell... :)

Anyway, I would just like to add that the American people have been under the bus for sometime, and every president since Johnson has succeeded in backing up and going forward over the American people time and again to suit their own interests and needs - the Clintons are no different, and I fear that Obama would not be any different either...


I know Im a bit fatalistic, but it amuses me to see people get angry over this stuff when it has always been the condition of our nation. I think with the new information sharing technology and enlightenment, these issues are finally starting to piss enough people off to start the gears of change. Bush has exacerbated the issues profoundly, perhaps to the eventual benefit of our nation...

But please dont disillusion yourself to think that one politician can solve these problems... they cant, I dont care who it is... Im afraid within my childrens lifetimes its gonna take bloodshed to solve some of these issues...

And does bloodshed ever solve anything?

Thanks...

:)



by bobo1 on 04/17/2008 12:38:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Here is what I am hearing.

We all agree Hillary and McCain will definitely not bring about the change we all seem to want (trolls excluded).

Many of us are skeptical that Obama will.  

So lets say it this way.  McCain and Hillary- chance of doing what we want-0%  Obama 1%

And from that argument you conclude we must not vote for Obama?

I don't play the lottery because I think the odds make it foolish but if someone offered me a free lottery ticket or a shit sandwich, I'd go ahead and take the lottery ticket and risk the disappointment. 

by ProfRich on 04/17/2008 01:02:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I dont care who you vote for - you have this mistaken belief that I care about what you or anyone else does vote wise - believe me, I dont...

What I am saying is that even at your 1%, Obama is not the Messiah we need to bring about the change you guys are screaming for... Will he take us closer, maybe, but I personally have my doubts because where you guys blindly follow anyone who is not Bush, I see Obama just as another version of Democratic politics that talks big but only talks - he will have little chance to enforce real change I think - but then again, this is only my opinion...

I find it facinating that many of you still have some faith in the system/media and believe that it can do good - Have you learned nothing from your lifelong observations? I guess its because I teach history and see it time and time again... It is a never ending cycle that has not and cannot cease...

Thanks for your thoughts...

:)

by bobo1 on 04/17/2008 01:18:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Here's the deal. Aside from the time you admitted to being a conservative, you have always presented yourself as a Democrat (albeit one who seems to hate the Democratic Party).  I realize that.

But you are gonna have to realize I am not an Obamabot.  I support him because he won the nomination and he is about 1000000% better than Grampa Death.  I was gonna support the Dem nominee no matter who it was because I support the policy proposals moreso than I support the other choices presented to me.

I like Obama fine.  I like Hillary.  I like Biden.  I like Edwards a lot.  But I don't think Obama is a messiah and don't claim he is or will be a transformative figure, much less a messiah.

Honestly, I am having a hard time thinking of anyone who posts regularly here who talks about Obama as anything more than the Democrat nominee for president that they prefer over Hillary.

Hillary supporters like to claim that anyone who doesn't support her is a member of some insane cult and worships Barak Obama.  Show me where I, or any of the other frequent fliers here have done this?  At least since my return in late March.

Do we defend him when people say stupid shit about him? Yeah.  But I would do the same for Hillary but no one has any reason to say stupid shit about her.  She's lost.

Get over yourself.  People have a right to their opinion.  If they think Obama is the best chance to end the war, avoid the next war and curb the depression they can think that.  Cut the silly Hilliblican (Republinton?) talking points and "clever" phrases out and start trying to put together a cogent argument. 

by ProfRich on 04/17/2008 01:30:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I am not exactly sure why you feel compelled to post when you have nothing to add other than the same old bromides, false concern...and now...thinly veiled hints at "revolution"

Please... basically what you are saying get a hooker, a bottle and party party party because their is no hope.

 and I fear that Obama would not be any different either...

Where you are wrong is that one person can and has made a difference in this world. History is replete with examples.

Is Obama one of those people? I honestly don't know. All the great presidents , great leaders of all stripes, have flaws...some had significant mental of physical issues ...  if they were subjected to the hypercritical media circus that is politics in the modern US. they would  have been excluded from office.

 Since there are no other viable alternatives (other than leaving the country ) I am willing to take a chance on Obama.  For that reason I do not understand your constant sniping that essentially is self destructive prattle with no purpose.

So here's the challenge

Right now there are three choices your either  McCain supporter, a Clinton Supporter or a liar. Which is it?

by MRFred on 04/17/2008 08:57:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Which is it?

by bfaul on 04/17/2008 09:54:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree.  I rated this comment, but I suspect I'm the only person who looks at that.

by Spencer on 04/17/2008 10:08:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What happened to your buddy Global Feetus? Is he the famous Jack Hannon?

by KenTX on 04/18/2008 07:41:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Globe...(real name Ethan) retired from TYT. His blogging conflicted with his potty traing schedule.

by MRFred on 04/18/2008 09:37:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Then who's boat did you pirate on the open seas, and did you leave them dead or alive?

Compare that photo with Mr Fred's profile.

by KenTX on 04/19/2008 04:22:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
with some dead presidents.

by MRFred on 04/20/2008 05:58:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Because he can't do too much damage. By contrast, we will not survive four more years of Bill Clinton in the Oval Office. You guys are just now getting a glimpse into the evil soul of that sick fukker.

by KenTX on 04/18/2008 01:36:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Its kind of like strippers.  Its no fun when you can tell they are just trying to get your money.

This is a really transparent attempt to rile someone up.

Pass. 

by ProfRich on 04/18/2008 01:44:54 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The famous word employed by Democrat spin doctors when they stir shiitt to keep an issue roiling. Well, I'm "troubled" that the two factions of the Democrat Party are engaged in all out civil war.

by KenTX on 04/18/2008 02:09:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
That about sums it up.

by MRFred on 04/18/2008 09:38:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If I ever had the chance to sponsor a presidential debate, I know for sure that I would have my best employees/reporters on their best behavior as the moderators.  I don’t follow ABC so I don’t know if these schmoos (George and Charlie) are the cream of the crop, but as witnessed last night, they guys were completely out of line.  They acted like children for god’s sake; junior high teenie boppers gossiping on the playground.  The funny thing is that Hillary seemed to revel in the trash even when briefly questioned about her Bosnia lie– bizarre! 

by rev24 on 04/17/2008 12:40:15 PM EST

Was today, when I listen to George Stephenolpolius on the Sean Hannity radio show saying that he was taking notes of the questions that Hannity would ask was abismal. Then to watch the clip of Stephenolpolius parrot the exact same question drove me fucking crazy! Who cares that Obama knows a "bitter" 60s radical...who cares!!!!! Who gives a shit whether or not Rev. Wright loves America as much as Obama does...WHO FUCKING CARES. You know I am sick of this bullshit. Obama should have walked over to Stephenolpolius and bitch smacked him for those questions, and Charlie too. I have had about all I can take of this shit. Then on top of that does anyone think about the GIGANTIC conflict of interest that is George Stephenolpolius. I mean he is one of the most know Bill Clinton staffers...except maybe Monica (booyah!) there is. How about the next debate be moderated by Michelle Obama or maybe Obama's daughters, they would probably ask better questions...

So to end all of this rant, let me just say this:

- FUCK YOU Stephenolpolius

- FUCK YOU Sean Hannity

- FUCK YOU Mainstream Media...YOU SUCK

Ask some real questions, how about NAFTA, CAFTA, the war(S)!, torture, YOO report, waterboarding and such. 

by KidDynamo0 on 04/17/2008 12:44:45 PM EST

in my above post I mention I heard the Hannity/Stephanopolius exchange. I just want to clear the air that I don't listen to that douchebag's show and I heard the exchange on Thinkprogress.org, here is the link...

 http://thinkprogress. org/2008/04/17/steph-hannit y-audio/

by KidDynamo0 on 04/17/2008 12:48:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"in my above post I mention I heard the Hannity/Stephanopolius exchange. I just want to clear the air that I don't listen to that douchebag's show and I heard the exchange on Thinkprogress.org"

I had a good laugh over your disclaimer.  I understand your revulsion.  There's a good many right-winger talking heads that I can't stand, but of all of them none make me want to reach for an air-sick bag like Sean "Great American" Hannity.  He's like a sickly Rush Limbaugh wannabe.  As much as I dislike Limbaugh, I recognize that he is a complete talking mouthpiece, a waterboy, a blowhard for "conservative principles".  I get the distinct feeling he well knows how full of shit he is, but sees it as his job to "carry Republican water".  Sean Hannity has no clue, he's like a mutt licking Republican hands for a pat on the head.  Good boy, Sean!  Good Boy!  Good little dog.  Don't jump up on daddy's leg!  Good dog!

by bfaul on 04/17/2008 01:59:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A perfect synopsis of not only Hannity but Rush.

by ProfRich on 04/17/2008 02:53:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]

This was a Democratic Primary debate.  Why the fuck does a right wing hack get to write the questions for a debate targeted at a party he openly despises.

There might be some twisted logic to this in the general election although it would still be grotesquely wrong, but in a primary?

Yeah, I am sure the Pennsylvania Democratic Primary Voters are loaded with Hannity listeners who were dying to know where Obama stood on the Weathermen. 

by ProfRich on 04/17/2008 01:06:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"This game sickens me. All I want to know now is whether the so-called news folks are in on it or if they are fools being played like clueless puppets."

This is the kernel of the nut.  I have often wondered this myself.  Something is badly askew here.  Do they recognize it?  Are they too close to see it?   Are they in on it? 

by bfaul on 04/17/2008 02:10:50 PM EST

I keep saying there is a career to be made out of pointing out how insanely crooked, clueless, out of touch and just stupid McCain is.

Someone is going to be the next Mathews/Blitzer/Olberman/St ephanopolous or whoever by doing this.  Why won't they do it? 

by ProfRich on 04/17/2008 02:55:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Should have been Al Gore
So my wife and I start to watch the debate last night. She couldn't stick through it. It was so terrible. She doesn't keep up with politics at all and she was asking me what is with these questions? She said that she could understand like maybe two of these for each person but not the entire first half-hour. So she left.

I am a political junkie and a glutton for punishment and stayed the whole way through. I am a also total dork and during the whole thing I am online talking with some friends as I watch. They were from Minnesota and Pennsylvania. The one in Penn lives about 25 miles north of Pittsburgh. But he doesn't live in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh or Allentown... so really who cares. Also he doesn't live in Scranton (thank you Office) nor, I think there is a Harrisburg, PA but it wasn't there either so again... who cares.

The one in PA is watching because "Yeah it is PA! People actually give two craps about us and it's not because of a sporting event." The one in Minnesota isn't watching because it is the 368th debate so far and "Jesus man, if you don't know what they are about by now you are just screwed." So Minn-man asks, how was the debate as a whole when it is over. I explain that this is how it basically ran down: 85% gossip and BS and 15% real issues. This is only an hour and a half show I am guessing accounting for commercials. Maybe 105 mins. That is like 15 mins of substantive questions. It may have been larger. Cenk says 52 mins into it they asked a real question. For the love of all that is good and holy, looking back it feels like I was more accurate. That was the worst debate I have ever seen. Where have you gone Dan Rather... where have you gone? This was a long way from a monumental debate. This was a debate of how much crap can we throw at these two and avoid really dealing with anything important.

I commend Obama when he started he stated that it was all pointless issues that drew our attention away from what really mattered. But then Hilary was like, I agree, but I am still concerned that these issued are being raised. I mean Barack... this is something we really have to be concerned about when it is time to take on the Republicans. ... ... aka... SUPERDELEGATES PICK ME!!! I'M THE ONE YOU WANT NOT THIS GUY!!!!

So then they go after Hilary with the Bosnia thing. And here is Barack's chance! GET HER!

So Barack unleashes, You know guys. We say a lot of things, and sometimes we might get some stuff wrong. You gotta give us a little wiggle room here. Correct us if we are wrong. We'll clarify it and fix it and then move on guys. You can just beat us up because a handful of times we made a few mistakes.

... ... (I look around confused?) DAMN YOU BARACK! YOU ELITIST!!! HOW DARE YOU RISE ABOVE THIS MOMENT TO BE THE BETTER MAN!!! What the hell man! Sling the mud. Wait... what is that you say? He is actually a good guy and a good candidate and someone you can be proud of? This is so weird. it has been so long since I've been able to be... proud of my president... I've forgotten what it is like. With reality TV we are taught you must back stab whenever the chance arises. And that you must lie, cheat and steal to get ahead. You mean... he is a good guy? OMG! Maybe Hilary will rise to the occasion too? (turns back to the debate after this epiphany)

You know... you have to be patriotic and love the flag as I do Barack.

Ah wishful thinking again. What the hell man. Ok ok. So there was a big controversy about a year or two ago when Howard Stern called Alexis Stewart the "C" word with a "y" added at the end. We know what I mean, just trying to be Rated PG here dunno who is reading. But the whole debate that is all I could think about every time I heard Hilary speak. WHAT A "C" WORD! I don't ever use this word. It is uncomfortable. Wife doesn't like it, I don't like it. But damn man... that was just the truth. And if she comes along and the Super delegates pick her... I will probably end up voting for her because I DON'T want McCain to win, but a big part of me will really want to vote for Nader. Just because I don't want it to be true that nice guys finish last. I don't want politics as usual. I don't want life to emulate a reality TV show.

It is no wonder the two guys I was talking with feel that if Hilary wins they will move to Canada. I think that is a bit much Mr. Alec Baldwin... but still. They are like we want Obama or McCain. If Clinton wins I am out of here. I told them that I could see that if it was McCain, but they truly feel that Clinton is Evil. LoL! I laughed. They actually are rooting for Judge Judy to win the Presidency. There is also a friend of mine on who is from Gainesville. YEAH UF (university of Flordia) Home of the "don't tase me bro" guy. He also is routing for Judge Judy. PA and I are both Dems. Minn-man and Gainesville guy are both Repubs but not in love with McCain.

So overall... I think we all agreed that it was just pretty much a waste of 2 hours of our lives and that we all want to file a class action suit against ABC for those two hours of our lives back. We are going to add it to our case against Warner Bros. for stealing 159 mins of our lives when we watched Eyes Wide Shut. It was a pointless debate. Wasn't even a debate. It should have been an episode of Judge Judy because it appeared to be a trial against how many ridiculous accusations we can throw at Obama.

Overall... this is why I don't watch ABC for any news or political information. It is nothing more than Perez Hilton on TV. How much gossip and dirt can we dig up and fling.

by Das Gimp on 04/17/2008 02:52:37 PM EST

It was a "Lowest Common Denominator" debate, Cenk.

It wasn't a debate for people that listen to The Young Turks or post on Huffington Post.  It was for everybody else, and let's be honest.

The mainstream media has gotten the mass of the public right back where they always are.  Caring more about flag pins, and stories in Bosnia than that whole 'war' thing.

Should we be mad?  Absolutely, but let's face it.  The rest of the country is paying a lot more attention to CNN's story about Chelsea hanging out at a transvestite club than the economy, General Petraeus' testimony, or anything else that actually matters.

by djm912 on 04/17/2008 03:03:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
t was a "Lowest Common Denominator" debate, Cenk.

It wasn't a debate for people that listen to The Young Turks or post on Huffington Post.  It was for everybody else, and let's be honest.

The mainstream media has gotten the mass of the public right back where they always are.  Caring more about flag pins, and stories in Bosnia than that whole 'war' thing.

Should we be mad?  Absolutely, but let's face it.  The rest of the country is paying a lot more attention to CNN's story about Chelsea hanging out at a transvestite club than the economy, General Petraeus' testimony, or anything else that actually matters.

by djm912 on 04/17/2008 03:04:29 PM EST

Cenk is really upset because his man  screwed the pooch again.  Does anybody think Barack looked presidential in this debate?  Another FDR?  Another TR? Another Reagan? Another Kennedy?

No, he looked like an agitated, passive agressive, and yes elitist academic who didn't like what he was hearing but didn't know quite how to handle it. Did he crash through to take center stage like a real leader? (Remember Reagan in New Hampshire?) No!

When Barack screws up, Cenk finds somebody else to blame it on.  The Media.  Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton etc. Hold  Barack responsible for his own actions? Forget about it.  Cenk has put his personal prestige on the line in backing Obama and thrown logic and reason out the window in his latest rants. (What happened to the champion of rationalism we used to known in the old TYT days?) Trash Hillary every day but have a hissy fit if anyone dares to ask Obama a tough question that he can't handle.  BOW DOWN TO BARACK!

Rome is burning and Cenk is still parsing the meaningless details of the debate.Guess what, the free ride from the Media ain't what it used to be. His canditate looked incompetent. People are watching Obama and starting to wonder if "there is any there, there?" Perception counts. That's the reality. That's politics.  Deal with it.

by winsor on 04/17/2008 03:26:54 PM EST

Perception counts.

And here you are, attacking Cenk's perception.  Wow, the contradiction is making me positively dizzy.  Obama supporters (at least the ones with carefully thought-out reasons for their allegiance) have chosen him because of this record of action.  In this race, unfortunately, that comes down to a question of "Who in this election has committed the fewest heinous acts?"  That question is not a winning issue for McCain or Hillary.

(Remember Reagan in New Hampshire?) No!

I like how you answered your own question here.  Efficient. 

by OneHitKill on 04/17/2008 10:07:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cenk, how come you never get this mad when Hillary is attacked?  Which has been, every single debate.  Just say it, you didn’t like the fact that Obama was forced to answer the questions he was asked, instead of allowing him to go on a tangent and distract us with “Hope” and “Change.” 


You should be glad they didn’t get into the specifics on Healthcare (because Obama plan really isn’t Universal, he should look up the definition), and education (because he plans to “reform” no child left behind because it was written by Ted Kennedy, instead of taking a stance and scrapping such bad policy).  On the war, he wasn’t there to vote, so his “stance” isn’t valid, especially since he voted to fund the war, just like Hillary once he was in office.   


Let’s face it, if Obama cannot handle George and Charlie, how can you say he can take John McCain?  This debate showed what a fighter Hillary is, she is ready to take the heat.    


To end on a good note let me say that as Democrats we need to focus on the Democratic contrast with the Republicans.  Let’s attack McCain, attract attention to these difference to make sure we win big in November.  This is something you can do with this show.  Don’t get angry, get active! 

by maritzd on 04/17/2008 03:59:56 PM EST

To reply to this and winsor, you guys are crazy. In the post game show when we got to their answers rather than the questions, I said I didn't like a lot of Obama's answers and he was far too tepid. I agree that he should take charge an rarely does in any debate.

I have said that Hillary has won every debate until the last one. And I think I am the only one in the country defending her Bosnia story (because it's not relevant).

Come on, in this debate, she didn't seem like she was being petty to you? She seemed like she was whining and none of her points resonated with me.

I think Obama scored more points by pretending to be above it (as he got his jabs in). This was smart on his part, though not particularly honest.

I'm being as fair as I possibly can.  

Cenk (I accidentally signed in as Dave here)

by yturks on 04/17/2008 07:53:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Cenk, someday I hope you are the one asking the questions.  Wouldn't that be AWESOME?  Keep up the good work man!

by desertpear on 04/17/2008 09:21:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
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