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Morons In PA

Email Print posted by chrisman1547 04/17/2008 12:54:05 PM EST

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    Today April 16th 2008 I went to my pharmacy in Hershey, PA.  The pharmacist behind the counter was talking to someone else behind the counter.  I was shocked when I heard what she was saying.  She said "how can Barack Obama expect to be president when he wouldn't even swear into congress with the Bible, because he was Muslim".  I quickly interupted her conversation and explained how that was not him and he in fact is Christian.  I found this to be incredible since we are this far into the election.  Today, I was thinking about why this always happens to the democrat's.  My conclusion is that most people are morons, and Republicans are so much better at smearing people and us democrats need to get our shit together.  If George Bush was a democrat he definitely would of lost BOTH times.  I think we need to organize and start our own smear campaign against Mccain.

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Morons In PA | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
Right On!!! (none / 0)
Im glad Im not the only one who sees the real problem here.

You will find that many of the people on this site believe that average people are capable of intelligent thought and decision making... I have a feeling that you and I know better than that...

This is what kills Democrats every election - assuming that people will vote their interests instead of voting on gossip, rumor and innuendo... Assuming that people actually care enough or think enough on issues to decide...

Thank you for your posting. I hope some people here can see your point...

:)

by bobo1 on 04/17/2008 01:23:04 PM EST

morons? (none / 0)
People are misinformed or under-informed for lots of reasons that have been covered at the TYT forum before. I don't they're morons unless you can be one by sticking your head in the sand. Then there's also willful ignorance because they want to be accepted.

by toosinbeymen on 04/17/2008 01:23:53 PM EST

ugh (none / 0)

No matter how they got there, it is so discouraging to face the fact that at least a third of people in America seem to be ignorant of the most basic facts.  They support Bush and his war, they believe the bible is meant to take literally, they are skeptical of science and don't believe in evolution, they think Iraq is responsible for 9/11, and the list goes on and on.  I think the entire west coast should secede from the union.  I've lived in this bubble my whole life and rarely do I find someone that ignorant.  Say what you want about California....

Why don't the Democrats fight back?!!

by desertpear on 04/17/2008 01:42:40 PM EST

There will always be that (none / 0)
18%   the ones that still back bush

by Chinese Democracy on 04/17/2008 02:38:25 PM EST

It's the JR Jackson factor... (none / 0)
most people ARE stupid. You could just walk down the street and ask ANYONE the capital of the state that they live in or even the capital of the US for that matter and 9 out of 10 will not know. They only "know" what is told to them through the glow box. People like us who look beyond that shit are few and far between. This will be the downfall of America. Guys, we are doomed. We are already toast on the world stage, ripe and ready to become a dictatorship. It's not just oil that is making the dollar lose value. One more major mishap, say a tsunami hits California, or the Chinese invade Tibet or Taiwan, for example and our impotence will be fully exposed. The last 8 years has just accelerated the process. It's the decline and fall of the American Empire and we've got front row seats. Perhaps an Obama or Clinton presidency can bring us back from the brink, but I doubt it.

by mijoh on 04/17/2008 05:01:36 PM EST

Food for thought (none / 0)

Even accepting everything else in this post., do you think people just got stupid?  Do you not think they always have been?

I think it is very hard to make the case that the average person was ever any smarter than they are now.  I would think that before universal education people knew less.  So why didn't all those things happen in the past?

Just curious 

by ProfRich on 04/17/2008 05:26:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
teh nets (none / 0)
Things have probably always been like this, but we just notice now that your average Joe is posting on the internet.  At least, that's how it was for me.  When I read comments on general sites like newspaper websites, it makes me cringe at how ignorant most people are, at least in my field of interest, which is science.  I have only a rudimentary understanding of politics, but when I compare myself to the average person, I feel like a genius. 

by desertpear on 04/17/2008 07:20:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't feel like a genius (none / 0)
The thing is all the rules that you live by in the science world are out the window. The very techniques for distraction, deception and misdirection that are disqualifying in science are not merely accepted but indeed encouraged practices in politics and by the media. Its disorienting and difficult for you to read the tea leaves. I fervently believe that this is why public education matters. Its not just important that people be well informed. Even though I listen to this show and post a lot here, I don't consider myself well-informed. But I don't think I need to be. I don't frankly have time (I should post less here too but I'm really animated about politics lately). You have to assume people only get a fraction of the story for similar reasons. The question is what they do with that piece of data once they get a hold of it. Do they understand how to parse it? What does the method of delivery tell them about the messenger? Our public education system and increasingly the university system is not training people mentally to deal with the world around them.

by hazmat on 04/17/2008 07:45:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
agree (none / 0)
I meant that I feel like a genius just for knowing that Iraq didn't bomb the WTC.  I totally agree that we need to teach people critical thinking (and compassion).  Are schools totally failing at this now?  I don't have kids, so I don't know.  I've always lived on the west coast, from Washington to California, so I've been in a leebral bubble my whole life.  I also haven't watched TV in about 20 years, apart from renting shows on netflix and seeing clips on the internet.  But I am a really skeptical person overall and I've always been like that.  Watching the dumbing down of America makes me so sad. 

by desertpear on 04/17/2008 09:45:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You touched on something important (none / 0)
The big thing is that we have SO MANY distractions nowadays. I've made this point before, but it's good enough to make again...

We have:

TV--one zillion channels with everything from sports and movies to food, fashion and politics.

Internet--with 100 zillion websites offering any number of ways to waste our time (or not waste it, but usually waste it) chatting, surfing and watching porn.

Porn--This deserves it's own category. I feel bad for nerds and quiet types of generations past. Even grossly fat people and other outcasts. What the hell did they used to do?  Now they have all the friends they need online, on television, through netflix, their pc and their video game console.  Oh, and their comic and other books (not singling out comics, just saying fiction in general) offering mass distractions, like the entire sci-fi genre.

Drugs--Sure, these aren't new, although then again, yeah, they are.  At least the prescription stuff that is so often abused. And obviously more varieties of the illegal stuff.

Food--Hunger is a problem, but overall in the US the problem is *too much*, not too little food. People can drown their sorrows in pizza and pop (soda, whatever) and they do.


A draining job and family life--Now that was clearly always around, and to some extent I forgive people for not paying as much attention as I'd like them to WRT politics/science and so on.  If I had a bunch of kids and worked some shit factory job (or whatever), I'm sure I'd sink into the seductive sea of suburbia, floating on the lounge chair with a beer in one hand and a remote in the other.


How else would I want to spend my spare time after I come home exhausted from a boring but hard 10 hour day (and an hour in traffice each way), by reading about politics and science?

You put all of those factors together and it's a recipe for disaster. Or I should say, a recipe for an uninformed, misinformed and generally apathetic public.  When you're struggling to pay bills an cut out your little piece of the pie, who has the time, energy or desire to debate the merits of CO2 caps and top marginal tax rates?

I know, we all make time for what's important. But people don't fee like they can change anything. There is some self fulfilling prophecy element to that I know, but also at least a kernel of truth often times.






by ihavenobias on 04/18/2008 01:20:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
you're close (none / 0)

but my real point is that all else being equal, that's the world we live in, and people simply don't have the time. Like I said, I'm not an expert at trivial pursuit. I believe myself to be capable of evaluating information on its merits, because I'm lucky and have been afforded certain advantages. What makes an ignorant person (try to imagine an example of "an ignorant statement") isn't lack of knowledge. Its the lack of skepticism it takes to evaluate the knowledge you currently possess. Thus individuals that are equipped with the intellectual tools to evaluate their surroundings are ahead, instantly. People who think critically actually absorb information passively to an extent that others don't. That is why the greatest invention of the enlightenment is the public education system of Scotland that fueled the enlightenment--

--that gave birth to the American Revolution. 

As a humanist I want to expand this opportunity to as many other individuals as possible because I understand the ginormous dividends it pays. In a well educated society, libertarianism trumps everything! Hows that for a concession from a leeeberul??

There are a couple of self-described teachers on this forum, I count so far ProfRich and bobo1. What an underappreciated and underrewarded profession. Kudos to them.

by hazmat on 04/18/2008 02:31:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0)
for a long time now (this started long before No Child Left Behind, but NCLB is making it even worse) many (most?) public schools have not been teaching critical thinking skills, and rather have been teaching to the test.

Students cram in a bunch of (often useless) factoids instead of learning how to THINK and actively evaluate claims and situations.  These isolated factoids and knowledge nuggets are apparently a subsitute for a solid conceptual knowledge base, which is fine for trivial pursuit and some TV quiz shows, but horrible in most other situations.  BTW, that also helps explain in part why so many "educated" people have nothing insightful or interesting to offer.

Being able to spit out factoids can come in handy, but it takes more than that to be truly smart in my book. I notice Cenk often makes remarks like "so and so went to (fill in the blank university), so they must be really smart" (and he means it). 

There's *some* truth to that, but I hesitate to assume that higher education always equals an insightful and interesting person with something to offer, because sometimes it just means someone did a really good job of studying and taking advantage of their academic opportunities.  I applaud that obviously, but the "smart" thing is a different question IMO.

Anyway, back to K=12 education. Many schools have (again, for a long time but it's getting worse and worse) dropped or de-emphasized subjects like art that encourage individual creativity and exploration, etc.  And civics?

Civics?! Civics?! You wanna take about civics?!  They don't teach that anymore, do they?  ;)

by ihavenobias on 04/18/2008 08:23:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
personally (none / 0)
after all the bobotx posts I have read. I really dont want him/her/whatever teaching children anything.

Kudos to dedicated teachers that care about the kids they teach.

by Chinese Democracy on 04/18/2008 12:37:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks (none / 0)

by ProfRich on 04/18/2008 01:03:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I can speak to this somewhat (none / 0)
Americans don't seem to go to graduate school anymore.  I am convinced that part of the reason I was admitted to ND was simply to balance out the CS program with Americans; we're majority-Chinese and Indian, who then go wherever the jobs are (HINT: NOT THE USA).

by jarett on 04/17/2008 09:59:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Successful European countries (none / 0)
often have far more progressive education systems and offer free and or cheap post secondary education.

Imagine that, if people don't have to work 40 hours a week while going to school (and or they can go to school full time without worrying about how in the hell they're going to repay tens of thousands in loans) they're more likely to go and finish.

It's a novel concept the US might want to focus on. 

F*ng Ronald Reagan ended the last free college in the US as Governor of CA in the 60's.  I believe there was some free college in NY as well, and Thomas Jefferson originally founded the Univ. Of VA to be free of tuition.

He believed someone's financial background shouldn't determine their ability to be educated (damn crazy lib, what a horrible idea).

by ihavenobias on 04/18/2008 01:26:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I take exception to the Moron statement but (none / 0)
your observation is credible.  But I take exception to the term Moron.  To call the people of Pennsylvania morons is very troubling to me.  Most are very intelligent, some are just missinformed.  They watch Fox news,  listen to their Ministers or friends that are misinformed.   Not everyone pays attention to politics like us.

by jdenham on 04/18/2008 10:07:47 AM EST

PA morons (none / 0)
I am a pennsylvanian and have lived in Rural PA my whole life. And I wasn't calling all pennsylvanians morons just some of them.

by chrisman1547 on 04/18/2008 06:39:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Free public education, free colleges (none / 0)

I was looking up some information about Nokia phones last week and was reminded that in Finland, all education is free. That includes public schools and universities. Colleges and universities in Sweden are also free, France, too.

The best education system in the world used to be in California. The California university system was unparalleled and also free. The public schools also were very good, with other states trying to copy their education model.

Then idiot GE puppet Ronny Raygun became governor. His main "accomplishment" was hiring Max Rafferty to dismantle the California public education system and defund the universities. Reagan wasted billions of dollars on his friends [sound familiar?] and left a huge debt.

The legacy has been horrific. Across the country, schools continue to be underfunded, replaced by corporate welfare. Colleges for teachers and courses have been eliminated. This is deliberate. When people are uneducated, they don't understand government. They can be tricked, confused, distracted.

Ronald Reagan was a horrible governor and a worse president. Dumbya BushCo is Reagan's legacy. People can't entirely blamed for their lack of education, but they should take some blame and do something to improve and educate themselves.

by zenie on 04/18/2008 02:01:41 PM EST

What Was Her Response, Chrisman? (none / 0)
Curious about the pharmacist's response when you explained the truth? Did she happen to say how she learned about Obama's Muslim beliefs? Did she sem to believe you? What she horribly embarrassed?

by Verified1 on 04/20/2008 01:38:29 PM EST

Morons In PA | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
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