Why Do Men And Women Go Too Far? (Friday Fun Thread)

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Men and women will go very far to look good for the opposite sex.  I understand that completely and don't have anything against that concept generally speaking.

I don't want to get into a discussion of plastic surgery (that's a whole other topic), but I do want to talk about the things people will do short of surgery that they think makes them look better.

First off, why do people tan *too much*?  I understand people not wanting to look pasty, but is dark orange a sexy skin tone?

I mean, I don't know many people who find that attractive, but the people who are actually over-tanning *think* other people find it attractive.

Both men and women are guilty of this, although IME, women are more likely to fall victim to thinking they aren't tan enough despite so much time in the tanning bed.

How about working out?  Obviously to look better, anyone and everyone would benefit from some weight lifting and cardio.  But then you have the workout warriors who take it too far.

If you want to be a bodybuilder because you enjoy it, ok. But do you expect the majority of women to find that attractive? If you don't care, again, great, you don't have to. I just don't get the "more is better" mentality for people who *do* care.

And obviously the more is better mentality destroys a lot of pretty women.  They go from curvy to flat and ripped.  Sometimes they just stop eating and are way too skinny. Ok, so Kelly doesn't look completely bad in that one pic (flat and ripped), but I shouldn't have to work so hard to convince you she's taken it way too far.  You could use those legs to fill out a scantron test.

Finally, we have women who think blondes always have more fun.  And hey, there are plenty of attractive blondes for sure.  But first off, white isn't blonde, and secondly, one of the worst possible combinations is someone who tans too much and on top of it, dyes their hair light blonde (I spent way too much time looking for pictures, but everyone knows what this looks like).

To top it off they might put on way too much makeup (especially eye makeup) and too much jewlery.

For men, to top off the too tan they might also wear too much jewlery and spray on too much cologne (that's more of a guido thing, I know).

PS---I realize that "too much" is subjective and that individual preferences vary. I'm just giving my opinion and I'm confident most people agree. But hey, if you think ripped, super tan, light blonde women with lots of eye make up are hot (or that the main guys on the cover of Flex magazine who sleep in the sun are sexy), please, let us know. And yes, the guys on Flex are injecting, of course.

Speaking of injecting...NO ONE is going to defend this.

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1) Tanning is a ridiculous practice, even in moderation (and that includes spray tanning as well).  When its done wrong it looks terrible (be it tan lines or carrot orange), and when it's done right it still looks weird and unnatural IMO.  I like my women a nice sickly shade of pale (well, the white ones anyway).

2) Bodybuilding is generally for men with small dicks (your pic links are proof of that).  And even if the package is of average size, the extra body surrounding it makes it look miniscule, so what's the point in the end?  It's also not all that healthy when it's taken to that degree.  All things in moderation.  And female bodybuilding, no thanks.  I agree with what Cenk said a few days ago, women should be soft.  Let me lift the heavy things, and you get back in the kitchen (tongue obviously in cheek).  Funny though that all that bodybuilding seems to make women's dicks look bigger...  Oh irony.

3) On the hair and makeup stuff, I honestly have never cared what a woman's hair looks like, whether they're Britney Spears bald or Rapunzel long.  So long as they're comfortable, it doesn't really matter to me.  Makeup on the other hand, I'm partial to none at all, but a little is okay.  One thing that drives me crazy (allow me a small tangent) is the dark line that some women draw around the edge of their lips.  It makes their mouth look like an open wound.

Since you had a pic link frenzy, I thought I'd share some good examples to go with your bad ones.  Here, here, here, here, and here (I always catch shit for that one). Oh, and one so you know I don't discriminate (cause I'm a PC lib).

And lastly, I LOVE the Friday fun thread idea.  The TYT community needs to come together and lighten up on occasion.

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 02:43:02 AM EST


Hair does matter to me actually. Shaved head? No, I can't deal with that. It's the least flattering thing I could imagine.

And hey, no blondes?  If I had to pick a favorite hair color for women, it's blondish/brown (or brownish/blonde).  Chestnut?  I don't know.

PS---If you're posting naturally pretty brunettes, how could you forget this one? (Rev, before you respond remember what Bambi's mom said to Thumper)

by ihavenobias on 04/05/2008 12:21:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree hair is essential, but lately I could care less what color it is - blue, blonde, platinum, red, bl ack (oh la la).. Style is key and every woman looking to impress a man (or at least me) should know this. Of course I'm partial to short hair (Portman, Ryder), but wonders can be achieved with medium length hair as well.   Don' t forget wigs can wonders wonders too - take Britney for example.

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that you must of fallen in love with Mandy back when she toured with the Backstreet Boys in '99...

by rev24 on 04/05/2008 03:21:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
back with BeetleJuice.

I call a truce!

And hair is really important. Oh, and my least favorite hair color is red.  And I'm not a fan of blue, purple, gold or other Crayola creations.

by ihavenobias on 04/05/2008 03:26:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Of course I'm partial to short hair (Portman, Ryder)."

And don't forget...petite!

by KenTX on 04/05/2008 04:40:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Portman, not so much.

Hair is essential when you're looking for a girl to be with for the long term.  But if a woman has a shaved head she might be a little insane, and that's not always bad (if you know what I'm saying) for short stretches.

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 06:09:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
actually looks all right in that one.  I go back and forth on her.

And oh, Sarah.  If only I were Matt Damon.

by jarett on 04/05/2008 02:19:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ricci made me think of Thora Birch (sp) from American Beauty, which then made me think of Mena Suvari...she might be the most overrated (physically speaking) actress I can think of at the moment.

I mean, I never understand why they cast her as the hot girl. Her face is alien-like (or maybe Fetal alcohol syndrome or something?), and her body isn't anything special either.

And yes, this is a superficial thread, but that's ok sometimes.

by ihavenobias on 04/05/2008 02:31:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Yes indeed.  And she's been blonde before, so I'm not exclusively attracted to brunettes (though I clearly have a bias there).

Mena Suvari is weird looking, and if you've seen American Beauty, then you know her body isn't fantastic either.  But when she's acting like a dirty cheerleader in that movie... well, I won't lie and say it didn't do anything for me.

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 06:13:22 PM EST

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Holy crap.

Turn off safesearch on Google and do an image search.

Wow.  Just wow.

by jarett on 04/05/2008 07:43:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
How close did you get to Chelsea? Is she as ugly as her parents?

by KenTX on 04/05/2008 07:52:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
She is actually sort of average face-wise but has clearly gotten a lot of exercise lately.  She has a simply fantastic ass, as well.

Also, for the record, Sean Astin really needs to go on the Chelsea Clinton exercise program.

by jarett on 04/05/2008 08:03:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Even though Ricci can sometimes look like an alien (Mars Attacks Maritan Lady Video), she's a definite top 20.  I surpringly found her very titillating as a blonde in Buffalo 66.  Maybe it was the whore makeup?

by rev24 on 04/05/2008 04:09:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
was the genesis of my Ricci love.

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 06:14:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]

jennifer love hewitt doesn't look like that anymore ;/

 

as dave chappelle said parodying rick james: 'the milk's gone bad!' 

by battierpeeler on 04/05/2008 03:04:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I take it you don't watch J Love on her current show, Ghost Whisperer.  Yes she was hot ten years ago, but she's just getting more beautiful with age.

by rev24 on 04/05/2008 03:50:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That's all I have to say.

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 06:16:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Although I can be a harsh critic at times, I respect people’s odd likings and desires to do unfathomable things to themselves.  However, I think tanning is one of the worst things you could to do your body, besides maybe extreme weight lifting.  Obviously I like women of all shades from pasty white to black black and everything in between.  For some reason, I just get turned off when I see that orange tanning hint.  I also don’t like it when women get obsessed with natural tanning.  Enjoy the sun, get your vitamin D, but calm down people. 

Lately I’ve been coming across a lot of younger women with lip injections and find it horrific.  I might be bias, since Angelina Jolie’s face does nothing for me (and no she looks nothing like Mena Cenk), but take Daisy from House of Rock 2 for example.  I’m sorry girl you might a perfect rack, but you look like a damn guppy.  Ok I’m getting off subject since this might fall into plastic surgery, so I’ll stop for now. 

by rev24 on 04/05/2008 03:44:35 PM EST


if it looks good, I don't care if it's fake.

IF it looks good. I have no moral objection, people can do what they want with their faces and bodies, and if they look better for it, why argue?

The problem is a lot of them do things that don't look good *or*, like with tanning/working out/cutting calories, they go too far.

I'm not someone who believes that natural always HAS to be better. Often it is, but not 100% of the time. Besides, it cracks me up when women with huge breasts express disgust with women who get implants. And look, huge implants look absurd.  At the same time, if someone is really small or uneven and they do something to be, say, a large B or solid C cup, I don't see why it's so horrifying.

If it's done poorly or doesn't fit with their frame, of course, it doesn't make sense.  But that's obvious.

Finally, how can anyone who fake tans, works out and spends hours on their hair and make up (and push up bra and whatever else) feel THAT superior to someone who's had *modest* plastic surgery?  Isn't the end goal the same, i.e. to make physical appearance better than would could be achieved naturally?

No seriously, is a push up bra "natural"?  Is putting on concealer, foundation, eye shadow and lipstick "natural".  Again, I'm not criticizing those things, as just about everyone looks better with moderate use of them.

I'm just saying...

by ihavenobias on 04/05/2008 04:04:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If someone gets work done and it makes them happy, I say go for it.  Though what does scare me are these Malibu grandmas who go completely overboard, but I guess that's their business if they want to look like Axl Rose. 

In regards to the whole breast thing, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I love a great rack whether fake or real.  Again, this is just one physical aspect of a women that I value, so obviously everyone I'm attracted to doesn't have to have mammoth melons (s orry some alliteration was called for).  I remember a past lady who I went out with asked me what I though if she got fake tits.  Nothing was wrong with what she had, but I was honest with her and told her of course I would think she would look hot with fake ones though she looked great with what she had.  More importantly, what mattered most was what she thought and wanted.  Obivously things get more complicated when someone has low self-esteem and is easily swayed by cultural influences dominated by male-centric views.

by rev24 on 04/05/2008 04:35:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If I can touch 'em, they're real.

by ProfRich on 04/06/2008 12:08:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]

There's a huge difference between a push up bra and getting breast implants.  Putting on makeup or a push up are temporary.  If you've ever seen how they put breast implants in...  Well, lets just say I'd rather see a woman putting on a push up than envision the bag getting jammed into her chest every time I see her with her top off.  But the real problem is, I don't think implants or other surgeries do anything to attract men.  I like women with big boobs, but I know plenty of guys who don't.  Men have enough varying tastes that it's not worth getting surgery to attract one.  Surgery is generally by women, for women, and, to beat a dead horse, I think its really due to the media and the way they perceive beauty. 

Sorry for dragging this conversation exactly where you didn't want it to go, but...  Eh, no I'm not sorry.  It evolved naturally.  See how that works?

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 06:30:37 PM EST

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*Most* men like larger breasts.  That's exactly why push-up bras are so popular (and padding, etc). 

Obviously we'd prefer naturally large breasts and I agree that many breasts look better with clothes/bra on.  Once they lose their support (and or you see a surgery scar, or the worst thing, the bag wrinkles from fake ones), they just don't look as good.

Of course air brushing, make-up and lighting does wonders.  But hey, if they aren't outrageously large, I'd say they look fantastic in a dress, t-shirt, sweater, etc.

by ihavenobias on 04/05/2008 06:44:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

if most men like larger breasts.  I think men just like breasts in general.  I'm not all that picky, a nice small breast is fine with me.

I was just pointing out that there's a world of difference between an article of clothing and a life altering surgery. 

by Spencer on 04/05/2008 11:06:01 PM EST

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This is something you see in NYC all the time.  I don't know why women do it to themselves.  The "show ponies" in NYC do this "fried to a crisp, gilded girl" thing that I've never seen anywhere else.

by jarett on 04/05/2008 07:45:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]

What do men do to attract women? <crickets>  One of my pet peeves about men is when they shop around for the cheapest haircut and look totally stupid for several weeks because of it.  What if their girlfriends did the same thing?

I'm too old to be spending time trying to attract guys when all it takes is wearing a tight tank top that shows a little cleavage.  I'm probably not your "average" woman though.  I'm a biologist and I live in Levi's and Carhartts and tend to be happiest when single.  Can't remember last time I wore makeup and a dress but it has probably been a few years now. 

By the way, was anyone else mortified yesterday when Wes kept telling Cenk to face the music and that marriage and children were inevitable?  Not everyone feels they have to join the crowd and be "normal."  Having children these days is environmentally irresponsible.  But as soon as someone gets married and has kids, they want everyone else to be saddled with the same nuisance--ever notice?

by desertpear on 04/05/2008 07:09:22 PM EST


On the kids.  We aren't having kids.  Of course when we say that, the response is generally some variation of "How old are you?" (Pause for response) "Oh, you'll change your mind, you'll see".

No, I don't think so, for many reasons.  It's true that biology beats a LOUD drum in favor of reproducing (and society adds it's own drum), but I just ignore it.


I think you're right about the "misery loves company" thing too.  A lot of them are bored, stressed and financially strapped (kids aren't cheap), so they take comfort in knowing that millions and millions (and millions) of others share their pain.


Kids are fun for those fleeting moments of firsts, throwing around the baseball, scholastic achievements, etc.  Otherwise, no thanks.  But to be fair, I think kids become worthwhile at some point in their 20's, at which point most of th expense and stress is gone, and you can actually have some quality conversations.


Is there a way to skip 0-22 (give or take) and just have a 23-25 year old kid?

by ihavenobias on 04/05/2008 07:29:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You can enjoy children of all ages by engaging in activities where you might meet them.  I actually enjoy interacting with kids on occasion, but for whatever reason I've never wanted one.  Never ever.  I guess GOD forgot to outfit me with a decent biological clock.  Damn that God anyway. 

by desertpear on 04/05/2008 07:34:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]

This is so much like me.  I wasn't planning to but had one anyway.  Funny how that happens sometimes.  The good news is that you love them like nothing else, the bad news is it's just as much of a sacrifice as you feared it would be.  I don't mind though.  I'd do it all over again because the greatest fear in my life now is something happening to him. Strange, isn't it?  It's impossible to fully comprehend this paradox until you've had one. (or it was for me anyway)

I offer no advice to other people about whether or not they should have kids, although I'm always glad to offer advice about how to raise them.  :^) 

by bfaul on 04/06/2008 01:03:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Is there a way to skip 0-22 (give or take) and just have a 23-25 year old kid?
 
That "kid" would have to spring forth from the mother's head like Athena.  Otherwise, I have a feeling the childbirth would be messy (and, invariably, end up in a photo posted on this forum by BytchBang).

by OneHitKill on 04/05/2008 11:45:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It did make me roll my eyes a good bit, though.

Cenk has been making noises about the possibility of children lately, whereas before he was totally against the idea.

Also,

"Having children these days is environmentally irresponsible."

Not buyin' it.

by jarett on 04/05/2008 07:46:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The environment suffers whether or not you "buy it," unfortunately.  Got any evidence that the environment actually benefits from people having children at this point?  Any at all?

by desertpear on 04/05/2008 07:53:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The environment benefits when you put more people into the world who know how to respect it.

Your argument reminds me of VHEMT, and is similarly flawed.

by jarett on 04/05/2008 08:04:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
We'll have to agree to disagree.  As a biologist who has been witnessing environmental degradation on a global scale for almost 50 years, I can't see that more people is the answer.

by desertpear on 04/05/2008 10:20:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
are truly astounding.  If you look at how long it took the human race to get to 1 billion people, you'll be shocked (and probably scared like I was) to see how much faster we reached 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 billion. HINT: Skim and look for my bold sentences if you don't want to read the explanations (fascinating, but hey):

"...There is more: In one day, 200,000 acres of rainforest also vanished, and 13 to 15 million tons of toxic waste, most of which is carcinogenic, was dumped into our air, soil, and water.

So, we have a problem. The story we tell ourselves is that this problem is the result of overpopulation, but there is some confusion in this explanation. For the first 190,000 years of human history, human population around the planet was relatively stable at anywhere from 25 to 75 million people. Then, about seven to ten thousand years ago, we began the age of pyromania - that is, we started using fire to smelt metal from rock, and with the help of metal tools, we became better farmers and hunters who were more efficient at producing food.

And logically, as with any animal population, if you increase the food supply, the numbers grow. The result was that our population increased slowly from 50 million people up to 250 million at the time of Christ, and we reached 500 million by the year 1000. And, somewhere between 1500 and 500 years ago, we began using ancient sunlight for the first time.

Up until then, human beings were fed, clothed, and sheltered entirely by current sunlight -- the sunlight that falls on the earth and is absorbed by plants, converting its energy into plant matter. There was also a 90 million year period, from 300 million years ago until 210 million years ago, called the Carboniferous Period, when the earth was covered by enormous plants that emitted a high level of carbon dioxide.

The average temperature was 12 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than now. These plants absorbed this carbon dioxide and eventually became what we now know as coal. We started using coal during the last 1,000 years, and now consume a million years worth of ancient sunlight each year by burning it. Pretty amazing, when you think about it.

Once we learned how to use ancient sunlight, we didn't have to maintain reservoirs of current sunlight in the form of forests anymore. We could cut forests down, use the land for crops, and produce more food -- and people. So our population grew rapidly, and we reached a population of one billion in the year 1800, after 290,000 years of human history. Then we became even more efficient in our use of ancient sunlight.

We began drilling oil wells, and it took only 130 years to reach two billion. Oil could be transported easily and burned in engines, so we could have a hundred horses pulling a plow in the form of a tractor engine. I mean, the energy stored in a handful of gasoline will propel a car -- thousands of pounds of steel -- for a number of city blocks. And the oil it comes from is three to four hundred million years old.

We reached our third billion in only 30 years, by 1960, and our fourth billion took only 14 years -- 1974. By this time, we used ancient sunlight not only to produce food, but also to kill off our competitors with pesticides and herbicides. Then our fifth billion took 13 years -- 1987 -- and our sixth took only 12 years -- 1999. If you talk to biologists and medical professionals, they will tell you that there are only two precedents for such a steep curve, or spike, in a biological system.

The first one appears when you are periodically measuring the pathogens in the blood system of a person suffering from a blood-borne disease. This sudden spike, which is called amplification, means that the patient's immune system has collapsed, allowing the pathogen, or disease organism, to run amuck. In other words, they are about to die. The other precedent is called cancer.

As a consequence, we have gone from consuming five per cent of the world's fresh water and eight percent of the planet's available energy, in 1850, to consuming over 50 per cent, which is why we are losing 120 species every day.

They have to compete for what is left...."

by ihavenobias on 04/06/2008 12:02:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]

In the documentary "A crude awakening" they show this graph of predicted world oil production:

peak oil graph 

 

To show how brief this period is in the course of human history look at this one:

fossil oil spike 

Now look at this graph of world population growth over human history:

historical population graph 

 

This is unsettling to contemplate, because what these graphs are showing is that world populations have spiked tremendously on the back of fossil fuels.  Fossil fuels have a peak curve that slopes upward very quickly and likely falls very quickly.  Ask yourself what this means for the population curve.

Desertpear was speaking about it from an environmental standpoint, but it amounts to the same thing: overuse of available resources.  I know what you're saying, and I can see it from both sides, but we have to ask ourselves at some point if we as humans are going to do what rabbits do: reproduce until all available resources are used up and then experience huge population diebacks.  She's taking the long view and thinking about people as a species.  If more people don't exhibit this kind of courage we (the species) are going to eventually be in big trouble.

So much for the Friday "fun post", huh!  Sorry, didn't mean to get so heavy on you. 

by bfaul on 04/06/2008 12:47:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Appreciate you both doing the work of arguing my position ;).  I fear that I don't have the energy to try to change someone's mind sometimes.  Indeed I am talking about the long term.  I don't fret when people choose to have a child or two, but population needs to be part of the discussion of environmental degradation or we are only treating the symptoms rather than the root of the problem.  Those who don't already see environmental degradation on every front, from water shortages and quality, to air quality, to the plastic that is filling up the bellies of seabirds, to climate change, to extinctions, either are not paying attention, or just don't really care about the non-human environment.  We are inseparable from our environment though, and ignore that to our species' peril.  Jarett is right about one thing--after pondering whether humans actually provide any benefit to the planet, I wouldn't mind seeing them bring their numbers WAY down.  So, count me among those who are quite existentialist and unsentimental about continuing the family line.  My parents' genetic line dies with me. 

by desertpear on 04/06/2008 03:02:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
And the reason that population control is NOT part of the discussion is political and religious and not scientific.  It invariably brings up the topic of abortion, which is an issue nobody wants to touch except in terms of extremes--choice vs life.  We need to be able to discuss abortion and birth control in more productive, objective ways, without all of the emotion.  This particular topic could be approached in an ethical, bipartisan fashion that acknowledges peoples' concerns with ending life, but also promotes the most ethically acceptable means of preventing unwanted conception and ending unwanted pregnancies early in gestation.

by desertpear on 04/06/2008 03:19:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Baby Killer!  Monster!

(Did I mention baby killer?)  ;)

I was listening to Catholic talk radio yesterday. I do that sometimes for a laugh or to get angry.  There is one show in particular that is incredibly entertaining if you want to be shocked (over the ignorance, and overzealous/warped worldview) called The Drew Mariani show.

Some of his topics are boring (when he gets too much into church history, etc.), but he talks about modern, secular culture a lot.  Like for Halloween he talked about how Harry Potter could be dangerous, and yesterday he was ranting about the "Culture Of Death" and how the "Contraceptive Mentality" was destroying our faith/country.

Oh, and if you're lucky, you'll hear some callers.  I'm amazed at these people.  The questions they ask are so pathetic.  While they might be adults age-wise, their mental/emotional development is questionable at best.  Why else would they call and ask things like "my good friend had a baby through a fertility clinic. I know she loves it very much and it's a wonderful child, but I know what she did was wrong.  What should I do?"

I couldn't believe my ears.  Is she f*ng serious?  I had several choice words for her, but I'll let you weigh in to keep my blood pressure down.  All I'll say is that these people are directionless kids who never grew up and learned to think for themselves.  Sure, everyone needs advice from time to time, but this goes way beyond that IMO.

by ihavenobias on 04/06/2008 03:28:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Must be part of, or similar to the 28% that support Bush no matter what he does.  Sort of a sheeplike mentality where you let someone else decide what is right and wrong for you without needing any evidence or supporting data in order to draw your own conclusions.  This is where Cenk's religious rant should be inserted ;)  It is so far from my experience (even being brought up as a catholic), that I just don't get it. 

by desertpear on 04/06/2008 04:39:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Population control is incredibly important and is the 800-lb gorilla in the room that no one talks about.  I am afraid, however, that unless we can somehow market it as desirable or create incentives for not having children, we will end up with this.

by jarett on 04/06/2008 03:28:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]

They happen naturally. As populations become more and more developed and the child becomes a financial strain as opposed to an extra worker in the family work force, birth rate drops.

In most of Europe and Japan with absolutely zero effort population growth has gone negative.  As China has developed, its population growth has declined.  India remains undeveloped and it will soon pass China.

The U.S. is an interesting case.  Due to the large number of people living in poverty and therefore having an undeveloped mentality our population growth remains positive but if you look at the wealthy, or even middle class, you see very little natural growth.

In short, the answer to population growth is development.  Unfortunately the more developed a country is, the more resources it uses per capita so its a double edged sword.

I'm sure that completely allayed your fear. 

by ProfRich on 04/06/2008 11:13:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I do agree that it happens naturally, but if we want to bring "everyone's" standard of living up, without having to sacrifice our own, or send the planet into code, it makes sense to me to at least try to speed up the process.  I guess I just don't see that limiting people to two children is that much of a sacrifice, but I do realize there is huge resistance to this type of interference in peoples' lives.  Then again, one would seem to want their children to at least inherit a livable planet.  I'm guessing that the buildup of toxics like flame retardants, DDE, etc. will eventually have more effects on human reproductive success.  oh yeah, but we can just grow them in test tubes.

by desertpear on 04/08/2008 11:59:44 PM EST

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Control the gut and add some flare... In regards to Wes, I was completely annoyed.  He reminded me of that uncle/friend who thinks he has everything figured out.  Hey don't get me wrong, maybe Wes has all of life's mysteries figured out for himself, but don't get all preachy and start using that prism of happiness for other people's happiness.  I call bull shit and I was surprised Cenk didn't go off. 

I use to think it was morally irresponsible to bring kids into this world with the way it is, but I've somewhat changed my tune.  I think it can be done, but for me I'd have to go all Larry King if it ever happened... 

by rev24 on 04/05/2008 09:24:40 PM EST

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