Hillary's bogus racial spin exposed

Barack Obama is stronger with white voters than she is.

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Thank you for posting the article, hazmat. You know I dont like using polling data as hard fact, but I will go along here for the sake of argument...

The fact that Obama is behind McCain in the white demographic is the story in itself... Through all of the Bullshit and the tripe of the last 7 years, McCain still holds a considerable lead among the largest group of voters according to this story - white men - and that right there, regardless of the Hildabeast factor, is a serious problem...

Now these polls are essentially meaningless when it comes right down to it, and I know Hillary is throwing everything at Obama to see if something sticks - but I think we should look past her now and focus on McCain...

Our friends like Spencer and Chinese Democracy would have us think that Obama is gonna take this in a walk at the general election... They quote (very much like your article) that even white people in North Dakota and Idaho voted Obama...

This is a false feeling of winnability, because in the general election, we work on the Electoral College system, and states like North Dakota and Idaho (along with most of the Mountain West and the South) are still gonna be red states, regardless of the 10 white people they found to vote democratic in the caucuses and primaries there... If we elected President strictly by numbers alone, Obama would take it in a walk, but we dont, unfortunately...

As I see it, the only states in play (barring some MAJOR catastprophe or history altering event) will be OH, NM, CO, FL, NH, NV and maybe PA and TN. Other than that, I would be very surprised to see the paradigm shift red or blue too much... Even with the high black population in the South, I just dont see it happening for Obama there... Maybe (hopefully) Im wrong, and places like AL, GA and MS can become blue... That would be a dramatic shift indeed!!!

Now, do I have statistics and polls to back this? No, call it an opinion, a gut feeling - Obama still may win, but he's gonna need a lot of help and a near miracle among the white vote to get it - or McCain needs to do something really stupid (beyond all of the stupid things hes already doing).

LET THE PANDERING BEGIN!!!!

Thanks again for the article, hazmat...

:)

by bobo1 on 04/08/2008 01:38:54 PM EST

but the polls also show that Hillary is doing worse than Obama for this democratic which undercuts her argument that we should nominate her because whites won't vote for Obama.

Just the same, you're right that people are being a little fantastical about expectations in red states. It's promising that Obama has clear appeal among independants and moderate republicans, but, but...

As awful as republicans are at doing the day to day goverment work and oversight, checks and balances etc, they are breathtakingly competent at setting the agenda for the popular media and at winning national elections. They slipped up in '06 because they thought they couldn't lose if they simply impugned the patriotism of their opponents. Their selection of John McCain shows that some of them at least have gotten the memo. He is not your run-of-the-mill candidate.

He is very effectively pandering to the far right and simultaneously reaching out to moderates (see his MLK holiday apology last week) with "plainspeak", which means not that he's being straightforward, but whether you like it or not he is very efficiently portraying himself as such while Hillary is busy making Barack appear like an extremist on the basis of innuendo and guilt by association.

As I have posted several times elsewhere democrats who think Obama is a shoe-in are deluded. I think he's a strong candidate, perhaps the strongest in my lifetime, but he ain't no shoe-in. Sun-Tzu wrote that the art of war is politics by other means, but he was really writing about human behavior. If you read that book and take it to heart, you'll learn not to underestimate the enemy. Regardless of the political climate, recent history, or the polls, make no mistake about it, John McCain has a bright, gleaming path to the presidency, regardless of who we nominate.

by hazmat on 04/08/2008 02:07:38 PM EST

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the really important thing, which the article addresses, is how Barack fares with white voters compared to past democratic candidates. Their data suggest he does comparably to Bill Clinton at his peak popularity among whites. So you can infer at least that there is no evidence for bias against Obama on racial terms that is distinguishable from the inherent bias of whites to vote republican.

by hazmat on 04/08/2008 02:22:17 PM EST

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First, I disagree with you almost completely about McCain.  He is an awful candidate who is going to struggle mightily when the Dems unite behind a candidate (and they will).  One rally, presumably in Little Rock, with Hillary hugging Barak will send McCain into a minimum 5 point deficit.

Beyond that the fact that he has so little money he is pathetically challenging Obama to accept public financing with him (despite the fact that he is blatantly violating campaign finance law according to the Republican chairman of the FEC), McCain is living and dying on the media having no interest in actually covering anything he says and does.

It will only take one mainstream reporter (not talk show) on a high profile outlet to begin the onslaught and considering that the only thing these clowns like better than free ribs is having that breakthrough story that gives them tenure McCain is playing a very dangerous game.

Not that his senile ass is aware of any of that.

About red states not mattering that is true but not because they are unwinnable.  They are perfectly winnable.  Most elections are not decided by fractions of a percent in the deciding state.  It is very likely someone will get 350+ EVs.  Maybe even 450+.  Obviously this would mean flipping a bunch of states.  That is how it usually works, just not in 2000 and 2004.  

From 1920-1996 there were 20 elections.  Four were decided by fewer than 200 EVs.  (1976 by 57, 1968 by 110, 1960 by 84 and 1948 by 114).  It is more likely than not that some solid red states will go blue or vice versa.

The reason the Oklahomas and Utahs don't matter is that by the time the Dems win those states they will have won all the tossup states and won the election anyway.  Playing the Dem nomination game to improve your chances in Indiana is playing for a massive landslide, not playing to win the White House.

Also, I have never understood the logic that if one primary candidate wins a state they are more likely to win that state in the general.  It seems to me since primaries are usually decided by party loyalists and close states in the general are decided by crossover other party voters and independents there would be little correlation between relative primary strength to the other candidate and strength in the general.  Theoretically the party loyalists (who tend to vote in primaries) will vote for either one.

Anyway, that said, the states to watch, in my humble opinion, are the Southwest states of NM, CO and NV.  All  look good for the Dems and would allow us to win without OH and FL.

In the midwest, MI and MN have to stay blue but they have been more dem than the country since JFK won.  MI and WI have to go Dem as well.  This seems likely barring a nationwide shift to the right.  MI and WI were wooed by Reagan but have been blue since 92.  Also the area is ravaged by the economy which should hurt the GOP there.

You will hear a lot of talk about OH and FL but I am not sure they matter that much.  Florida will go red in a 50/50 election and Ohio is a true tossup.  

Ohio is fascinating.  What will Buckeyes vote against? Will they decide their vote on revulsion of the massive GOP corruption in the state and the horrific economy or will their racist tendencies cause them to ignore all that to stop a man based on the color of his skin.  Ohio is a microcosm of the entire GOP strategy.  I do not believe the dems have to have it to win but the GOP absolutely does and it will probably be the most interesting state to watch. 

Oh, and if McCain has to spend a single penny running ads in Texas, he is on his way to getting Mondaled.  Don't believe it can happen?  Beware the brown, my GOP firends.

by ProfRich on 04/08/2008 03:33:06 PM EST

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If Texas even thinks about going blue, I will drink the kool aid, find the spaceship behind the comet and bear David Koresh's children because I will then know that the Apocalypse is upon us and Hell hath frozen over completely...

I still think Texas should be granted its independence again and made its own country - that would solve a lot of our problems, both on the Immigration front and on the redneck front... Let them deal with the brown issues...

Long live the Lone Star Republic!!!

:)

by bobo1 on 04/08/2008 04:22:45 PM EST

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But they did vote for Anne Richards. Your reply made me laugh!

by hazmat on 04/08/2008 06:44:29 PM EST

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My friend, why is this Hillary's bogus racial spin?

Who has been labeling everything she says as being racist? What race card has she played?

I just read an article written by Dave Sitora that basically accuses whites (in states with a black population of at least 5%) of being racist (because they didn't vote for Obama). The tortured logic is really sad but typical. You can find the article at TPM called Racial Chasm (it is actually reccomended by Josh marshall)

Read the article and see how certain liberals will twist any numbers to prove that  white people are racist. While at the same time ignoring the fact that blacks are voting for Obama by more than 85% (Note: Clinton had always enjoyed tremendous support in the black community because of her civil rights record).


How do polls prove anything. You have never saw me use a poll to prove a point because they are completely unreliable (as have been shown numerous times in this election cycle).

If I were a candidate, ANY candidate I would be very leery of any polls.


by LORD FOUL on 04/08/2008 04:32:49 PM EST

Polls in this case are essentially useless, and plus I dont like how they (the polls and the media) keep focusing on Identity and racial issues - They are not being honest with us, and they are just not giving a clear picture on how the country really thinks and feels...in my opinion.

Ask around with your non Obama-supporting friends (if you guys have any). Say the words Obama and president in the same sentence and see their initial reaction - thats a 1000 times more useful than any statistical poll...

thanks

:)

by bobo1 on 04/08/2008 04:45:43 PM EST

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I don't think Hillary's racist, and that's not what it says up there at the top of the thread. I referenced her racial spin. Okay I'll admit the word "exposed" kinda maybe implies racism. Sorry for the exaggeration--that's not what I meant. I meant that her false claim is exposed. Its well known that she's pushing the narrative that white people in swing states won't vote for a black guy. I just talked to a Hillary supporter today who said the same thing. Okay, he's not an official surrogate, but this is the buzz. Is it wrong?

About polls, yes, it's healthy to be skeptical about polls. But the ones that are done scientifically are real, hard data. They are statistics and one should be careful in their interpretation, but dismissing them out of hand is no more prudent than overinterpreting them. In this case, I put them up because Hillary's camp made the claim that Barack enjoys less of the white vote and thus will be a weaker general election candidate. There's nothing wrong with that claim, because it is falsifiable. These data suggest--but do not prove--that her claim is flat out wrong. They also imply that the opposite may be true. More evidence may come to light which shows something different, but until then, you can't simply discard real data because you don't like polls. Are you suggesting we trade opinions ad nauseum until one of us is forced to change our minds on the basis of the other having a more forceful opinion?

by hazmat on 04/08/2008 07:02:46 PM EST

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