Losing sense of nationalism

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The final year of my dads service

Most of you don't know me but you veterans on the site may remember me.

My dad is in his final year of service in the Army and the last two years he had to live away from our family. He didn't have to go to Iraq or anywhere outside the U.S.

Anyway, the past couple of years a thought kept coming up in my head: Where do my loyalties lie?

As a Christian my loyalty belongs soley to Jesus. As an American I have pledged my loyalty to the U.S.since kindergarden.

I've become disturbed with the direction that the world as a whole has taken and I can see that the only way the world will be able to survive is when the world can rid itself of nationality. This is also disturbing to me for obvious reasons.

I'm thankful to have grown up in the U.S. but the politics has started to separate us for the second time. Leaders of both major parties play to the lobbiest and companies. Nothing that is really important gets done due to the argueing in Washington. It's become very disappointing.

With all this being said I have decided that when my dad retires from the Army, I will no longer swear my allegiance to the United States. I will continue to honor the soldiers that have died in wars to preserve freedom but other than that, nothing else will be said or done. 


 

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Poll

Where do your loyalties lie?
God 0%
Country 38%
Republican 0%
Democrat 7%
Nowhere 53%

Votes: 13
Results | Other Polls
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It is not that I'm a godless heathan but I've just heard "for god and country" or simlar sentiment like "for king and country" echoed way too many times for mistakes that can be seen clearly for what they were with the judgement of history and benifit of hindsight to use them as excuses for genocides, mass murdering or even just an occupation (if that is all this is). Even if your dad was over there in it, I wouldn't find fault with him, perse, unless he were one of those that has been found guilty of say torture or rape and murder (I know probably the one bad apple theory and a lot less common than the liberal biased media makes it out to be).

But none the less I'm not faulting warfare nor even warriors. I just don't think God and Country should be used as excuses to basically go on Colonial conquest in search of natural resources (which is what I think our occupation and liberation of Iraq really amounts to).

I probably would say where my loyalties are but I hate the false dichotomy of false choices and nowhere. Ya might as well have said red blue, chicken or steak or you're a nihilist.

You say neehalist, I say NIGHalist, let's call the whole thing off (to mash and paraphrase Porter and John Goodman in Lebowski).

I hear your frustration and I can identify with it, I'm not judging you and hope you do not judge me for these comments which might come off as off the cuff and rude and insensitive. I can only suggest to you what has been suggested to me, which is to maybe try and keep a more open mind (about your dad, the war, yourself and your own views-perhaps there are other alternatives but you're limiting yourself?)

by tiggerporn on 05/01/2008 10:17:30 PM EST


Don't make any unnecessary final decisions. It's not an either/or situation. If every answer you come up with leads to a new question, you're headed in the right direction.

Glad your dad's okay.

by MedfordTim on 05/01/2008 11:56:03 PM EST


you didn't list the U.S. Constitution as an option? As far as I'm concerned its the only thing most Americans truly have in common. It's only a shame that many are so blinded by ideology and no longer give it much thought. But that document is the thing that binds us together. You've written a thought-provoking post here, and I'm very interested to hear more about your views. Obviously you've been through a lot. My dad lived apart from our family for over a year when I was very young. It was hard.

"I will no longer swear my allegiance to the United States"

That's a very strong statement. It sounds like you're feeling depressed (like a lot of people around here) about current affairs. Instead of putting down your allegiance to the United States, think instead about what it means to you to be a citizen. Underneath that, as a christian, your faith can inform your citizenship. Think of the fallen soldiers who have gone before for policies good and bad, and how best to honor that sacrifice. It's probably not with a yellow ribbon sticker on the family wagon.

Questioning authority in this country is at the core of your patriotic duty. Disagreement with the leadership or direction of our government isn't from lack of allegiance...it's required!

by hazmat on 05/02/2008 12:09:46 AM EST


so that isnt even an issue with me.

Obama means change. Im for change. If you are so upset with the status quo change it

by Chinese Democracy on 05/02/2008 12:46:30 AM EST


"As a Christian my loyalty belongs soley to Jesus. As an American I have pledged my loyalty to the U.S. since kindergarden.  I will no longer swear my allegiance to the United States."

First the bad news: We are revoking your citizenship, and exiling you to Russia.

Now for the good news: You get to keep your Jesus.

Is there nothing worse in this world than a Jesus-Loving American-Hater? You sound like Reverend Wright, you worthless little bastard!

I hope your father kicks your ass when he gets home.

by KenTX on 05/02/2008 01:59:21 AM EST


Now we have to spend the next week expaining how citizenship works to Ken.  Is there anything this guy understands?

Ken, if I could just revoke your citizenship with a blog post for being a racist-loving, rape supporter, I would.

by ProfRich on 05/02/2008 09:36:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Is there nothing worse in this world than a Jesus-Loving American-Hater?

No...so there goes most of the Republican base and some big contributors!

 

Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a South Korean theocrat who had denounced the United States as “Satan’s harvest” and likened American women to “prostitutes.”

In his angry sermons, Moon has gone further than saying “God-damn America” – as Wright did – to vowing to sweep aside American democracy and individualism as he builds a one-world state.

Once his plan to “swallow entire America” is complete, Moon told his followers in one sermon, there will be “some individuals who complain inside your stomach. However, they will be digested.”

But Moon’s hatred of America is not deemed news, in part, because Moon has financed the Washington Times since 1982 to the tune of more than $3 billion, according to former newspaper insider George Archibald.

Moon also has lavished many millions of dollars more to pay for conservative conferences and to bail out key right-wing figures when they have found themselves in financial distress, including Republican direct-mail guru Richard Viguerie and the late Jerry Falwell.

 And that Great American Jerry Falwell:

 I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this [9/11] happen.'"

Fuck You North Carolina 

"Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America."

 McCains Mentor:

Loves America 

"As a nation, America is under the curse of God."

Support for Israel? 

 "With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."

 Thats just a few...at least our friend has the guts to say it in clear unambiguous terms...and not hide behind the Bible like you buddies do.

by MRFred on 05/02/2008 11:39:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
did you read your post,  it sound's like you might want to pack your bags.then get on a plane , and fly to your one world state, and not come back. but maybe I took you all wrong, but it sounds like you hate it here, and talk about raceism, are you white, black, hispan, turk ?it dose not matter to me, all of us need to keep raceism out of our posts. raceism can be  at any race, not just the one al sharp no brian talks on.that man is also racist, so if I took you wrong I am sorry for that.


why can't we all just get a long

by tuna on 05/03/2008 08:17:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
John McCains spiritual advisors

1."Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist."

- Pastor John Hagee in his book What Every Man Wants in a Woman

2. "The Quran teaches that [all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews]. Yes, it teaches that very clearly."

-Pastor John Hagee

3." I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans...I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that...There was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades...The Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment."

-Pastor John Hagee

4. "The military will have difficultly recruiting healthy and strong heterosexuals for combat purposes. Why? Fighting in combat with a man in your fox hole that has AIDS or is HIV positive is double jeopardy"

- Pastor John Hagee on Don't Ask Don't Tell in his book What Every Man Wants in a Woman

5."It [Gay marriage] will open the door to incest, to polygamy, and every conceivable marriage arrangement demented minds can possibly conceive. If God does not then punish America, He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah."

-Pastor John Hagee on Don't Ask Don't Tell in his book What Every Man Wants in a Woman

6. "It is impossible to call yourself a Christian and defend homosexuality. There is no justification or acceptance of homosexuality.... Homosexuality means the death of society because homosexuals can recruit, but they cannot reproduce."

-Pastor John Hagee on Don't Ask Don't Tell in his book What Every Man Wants in a Woman

7. "Only a Spirit-filled woman can submit to her husband's lead. It is the natural desire of a woman to lead through feminine manipulation of the man. .... Fallen women will try to dominate the marriage. The man has the God-given role to be the loving leader of the home"

-Pastor John Hagee on Don't Ask Don't Tell in his book What Every Man Wants in a Woman

8.   "I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore."

-Parsley in Silent No More (Charisma House, 2005)

9. "Gay sexuality inevitably involves brutal physical abusiveness and the unnatural imposition of alien substances into internal organs, orally and anally, that inevitably suppress the immune system and heighten susceptibility to disease."

-Parsley in Silent No More

10.  "Only 1 percent of the homosexual population in America will die of old age. The average life expectancy for a homosexual in the United States of America is 43 years of age. A lesbian can only expect to live to be 45 years of age. Homosexuals represent 2 percent of the population, yet today they're carrying 60 percent of the known cases of syphilis."

by Chinese Democracy on 05/03/2008 01:39:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
He really wrote a book with this title?

I could have written the text with a single word.

by KenTX on 05/03/2008 02:23:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I think thats a better choice

by Chinese Democracy on 05/03/2008 03:01:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I agree, your poll doesn't have nearly enough choices, nor could it ever.  I like to hope there are lots of Americans whose loyalties to family, community or just good old humankind trump their loyalties to God as well as their country, but maybe that's naive.  Anyway, it's good to see you back.

I have to say, however, that no longer swearing your allegiance to the nation isn't altogether that big a deal.  I haven't done that since I was old enough to understand that I had a choice in the matter.  I guess I never really "lost" my sense of nationalism...nay, I most certainly and purposefully threw it away.

by OneHitKill on 05/02/2008 05:17:31 AM EST


There is and has always been a struggle to save the United States constitution from people who are fearful, from people who wish to control others, or from those who are simply greedy.  Each of these groups would sell out freedom in exchange for something of less value: security, control, or money.  Security itself is a worthy goal, but it must be accomplished without giving up basic rights to personal privacy that are a natural part of being free.  This is the only one of the three that should be open to careful negotiation. The other two groups should be opposed vigorously and at all costs, with violence even, if all else fails.

If you're going to pledge anything, pledge to stay in the fight. 

by bfaul on 05/02/2008 12:00:31 PM EST


Once again, bfaul cuts to the chase.

by hazmat on 05/02/2008 02:45:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I did not vote in the poll because I could not say nothing.  I am loyal to my wife, my family, my friends. 

Loyalty is an interesting topic to discuss, much like patriotism.  What aspect of America are we to be loyal to in order to please the likes of Ken?  The land?  I would say that many of us and our elected officials have failed that loyalty test in terms of environmental protection.  The Constitution?  Again, we have been failed by our politicians on that one.  The people?  I could go for that, but why them over the people of other countries? We're all homo sapiens. 

I think the closest choice from your poll and the best answer to my questions would be the Constitution or you could say our rule of law.  I feel your pain that we are being led politically by people who have not lived up to that oath and are dragging us down with them.  The question becomes at what point do you continue to fight for what's right and for the system you believe is worth fighting for, and at what point do you abandon ship to try again somewhere else.  I think that our system is one of the best in the world, mainly because of the framework put in place by the Constitution to rein people in and avoid disaster.  Because of the beauty of this system, I think it is definitely worth fighting for and using it to rein in those people who are trying to subvert it.  Are we past the point where we can do that?  I think we'll find out within the next 5 years or so.  It is up to all of us to do what we can to try and get it back.  The country still belongs to all of us.  It does not belong to the people currently trying to kill it.  And to Ken: those who are loyal to the people trying to kill it are as anti-American as you can get.  Someone who is pissed off and on the verge of throwing in the towel because they are sick of smelling the big fat dump those people have taken on the Constitution is not anti-American, they are sensible, caring human beings. 

In the bigger picture, I agree that nationalism just for the sake of it as if it were a sports team is something we as human beings must get beyond if we are to have a future.  It may happen naturally, or it may take a global natural disaster or an alien invasion to force that kind of change. 

by jawill11 on 05/02/2008 03:08:23 PM EST


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