What's the Matter with New Jersey?

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Now that the Democratic Primaries are over in a competitive sense, I was interested to look at the exit polling numbers.  My goal was to find the most racist states, based on the percent of the white vote that went for Obama.  I relied on exit polls from the MSNBC website.  I tried to leave aside states in which John Edwards garnered a significant percentage, and some states were not included because voting results by race were not included in the exit polls.  (And some states may have been left out because I didn't do a completely thorough analysis - sorry.)

So, here is a list of the states in which Obama won the smallest percentage of the white vote:

Arkansas 16%
Alabama 25%
Mississippi 26%
Tennessee 26% (Edwards got 6% of white voters)
Louisiana 30%
New Jersey 31%
Ohio 34%
Pennsylvania 37%
New York 37%
Indiana 40%

The top (or bottom) five are southern states, former Confederacy states if you want to say that. Outside of this region, the state in which white people votes least for Obama was my own home state of New Jersey, a state that is supposed to be educated, liberal and presumably enlightened.

I am very disappointed. I would like an explanation for this.  In Georgia (43%), Texas (44%) and Virginia (52%) whites voted in greater numbers for Obama than they did in New Jersey.  

Maybe in NJ Obama received a lower percentage of the black vote also.  Well, in NJ Obama did receive a lower percentage of the black vote (82%) than he did in Georgia (88%), Texas (84%) and Virginia (90%), Alabama (84%), Mississippi (92%), Louisiana (86%), Ohio (87%) and Pennsylvania (90%) and Missour (84%) as well as other states.  So maybe people in NJ rather than being the most racist outside the south, just love Hillary Clinton.

Other states in which Obama did poorly among black voters were New York (61% - a strong Hillary state obviously), Arkansas (74% - another Clinton state where Obama did poorly in all categories), and finally California (78%) and Connecticut (74%), two states in which he did very well among white voters, interestingly.

Anyway, I don't know what my conclusion is, but
I found all this to be somewhat interesting, as well as very uncomfortable, all this focus on race and racial voting patterns.  

Questions:  Why did Obama do well with white voters in CA, CT, VA, and to some extent GA?  Why did he do so poorly with white voters in NJ?  Why did he do so dramatically poorly with black voters in New York (61%)?

David

< Don't fear the Liberal Label | Pulling a Hillary >
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You are from Jersey and you don't know the answer to this one? Follow the money.

"Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton received the endorsement of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees Wednesday......

......Clinton has already received the backing of the American Federation of Teachers, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and Allied Craftworkers, and the United Transportation Union, among others."

That would be my best guess anyway.

What exit? 

by z1p101 on 05/12/2008 08:47:17 AM EST


9A?  There is no 9A. I'm from Exit 9.  By the way, I wrote this message, not Cenk. I am amused at the two main reactions.  Yea, I know that NJ is a political machine state and I know union endorsements came in early for Clinton, but still, it's not cool that Obama did that badly among white voters in the state.

David

by yturks on 05/12/2008 12:14:26 PM EST

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They are so stupid.  They have no correlation to the mile markers like they are supposed to.  They are just numbered in sequence.  God, it pisses me off.

First you end up with shit like "Exit 27J" and you never know how far anything is away.  What a yankee clusterfuck that is. 

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 12:22:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
ProfRich, just stick to the Garden State Parkway. They have exits the way you like them.

David

by yturks on 05/12/2008 01:44:44 PM EST

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Since you have both, do you prefer the GSP style numbers or the Interstates style (up there anyway).
I was in Ohio and was told to take exit 27.   I was on exit 12 so I thought "15 miles down the road, should be there in about 20 minutes."
An hour and a half later I am going, "Next Exit" at exit 26.  Then at 26b.  Then at 26c.  Then at 26d.  It went on forever.  It was awful.

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 02:40:13 PM EST

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You vote for who you are told to vote for and good things happen for you. If the other guy wins, then there are no guarantees.

Say you work for the Port Authority. If the person who they tell you to vote for wins, then everyone keeps their job and gets a raise. The other guy wins and usually it's the reverse.

Been that way for 50 years and don't expect it to change soon. 

Oh yea, 148 off the Garden State. 

by z1p101 on 05/12/2008 03:08:55 PM EST

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I meant 9. I actually don't live THAT close to the turnpike. I live down by PA off of Rt 1 and don't use the NJ Tpk that often. Sometimes I get off at 8A and I got the 2 confused.

by mijoh on 05/12/2008 02:30:44 PM EST

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I too live in New Jersey, and New Jersey, like PA, NY, and most other NE states has a powerful and disciplined Democratic Party machine. Who the machine says should win, wins. Especially in primary elections. Hillary got the machine's endorsement early in the primary process, mostly because they thought that she would be the nominee. It is the secret of her wins in these states, nothing else. Now that Obama has this thing pretty much wrapped up, you are starting to see politicians slide over to his side, hence Rep. Donald Payne, just to name one. The rest Democratic machine will move over to Obama here effortlessly, once this is all said and done. Especially if Hillary does the right thing for party unity. Even with that, trust me, anything even remotely connected with George Bush in this state will not stand a chance. People here hate him with a passion. You still see people driving around with Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers on their cars. The Rev. Wright himself could beat Bush in an election here. There is NO way the McCain will win this state. Maybe if he completely and utterly repudiates George Bush, which we know he will not do, he coud be competitive, and that's a BIG maybe. With his current strategy, he does not stand a chance in NJ. If the 'pubs want to waste their limited $$$ trying to contest NJ, let them do that. It will be wasted money that they could have put to better use somewhere else. Every presidential election, we see the media and the rightwing look hungrily at New Jersey only to get bitch slapped by reality on election night. It will happen this time too.

by mijoh on 05/12/2008 11:33:36 AM EST


If McCain runs away from Bush he loses his fundraising base and severely dampens turnout.  Bush is a lose-lose dilemna for McCain.  He didn't start stroking off Bush because he wanted to.  He did it because he decided he needed the base and the money more than he needed the independents and moderate.

He is pretty screwed either way but at least this way he doesn't have to beg his "cunt" and "trollp" of a second wife (his words not mine) to fund his campaign (which she could but for some reason won't) and he gets the mega-churches, Fox News and Limbaugh carrying his water for him even if they do so reluctantly.

Gallup today put up a poll showing McCain's ties to Bush are more destructive to vote-getting than Obama's ties to Wright.  So I guess you're right.  Wright could beat Bush.

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 12:20:44 PM EST

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i have some problems with this sort of superficial analysis:

(a)  if one can impute white racism based on the percentage of whites that do not vote for a non-white candidate, then one should equally impute black racism (or sexism or whatever-ism) based on the percentage of blacks that do not vote for a white candidate.

(b) the primaries have be going on for a while, and each episode of voting has occurred in a slightly different context (the voters know slightly different things); comparing demographic data across a period of many months makes the analysis weaker.

(c) the analysis ignores the "base rate" of demographic-specific voting patterns. in other words, one can say "white democrats in arkansas are racist because _only_ 16% votes for obama" only if one also knows that if racism were somehow to magically disappear from the minds of voters, and other things were equal, significantly more than 16% of the white democratic votes in arkansas would have gone to obama. without such base rate information, it is difficult to argue about any of the data in any of the states, as to which ones demonstrate deviations from the "expected" non-racist voting pattern, and which ones are racist.

 

keep in mind that the u.s. is a country where 90% of the population believes in some sort of sky-god who takes a personal interest in people's sex lives, 60% believe that darwinian evolution is the work of the devil being propagated by commies and nazis, and some 30% of the population is unclear about the mutual relationship of the sun and the earth w.r.t. who revolves around whom.

maybe the real problem with the analysis of voting/polling data is expecting some sort of rational behavior from the voters of such an irrational populace. 

by neo on 05/12/2008 01:25:58 PM EST


"On Aug. 28 at 7:30 p.m. in Borough Hall, the Freehold Borough Zoning Board of Adjustment is scheduled to hear an application filed by Chesapeake Companies Diversified Group LLC, of Minnesota, seeking a use variance to build an Olive Garden Italian restaurant on the property where Jersey Freeze now sits."

 

Arrrrgh! Blasphemy! 

by MRFred on 05/12/2008 01:30:43 PM EST


MrFred, Why or how did you find this insignificant news blurb from a place far away from where you live?

Neo, your critique of the analysis is 100% right. The analysis was not supposed to be rigorous.  

Here is another flawed analysis explaining why blacks who vote for Obama are not exhibiting black racism:  In my mind, Obama is the correct vote.  Ideally, he should have won about 3/4 of the votes in every state.  So if black people vote for Obama, that is the "correct" vote. If somebody votes for Clinton, that is the "incorrect" vote and therefore there must be an explanation. That explanation is racism.

David

by yturks on 05/12/2008 01:50:30 PM EST


he picks the color of skin (with apologies to bogie).

i think it speaks to the nature of discourse in our society that the sole, or the primary, reason for a voter deciding to cast an "incorrect" vote is racism, not health-care plans, not foreign-policy, not the economy, nothing.

 

this reminds me of some otherwise sensible leebruls i met in college who excoriated a newcomer to their company who did not like jazz because, get this, anyone who dislikes jazz is racist because all great jazz musicians are black. the poor guy was then reduced to pleading that he did like the blues, but no dice---if you did not like the duke, you might as well be in a klan lynch-mob.

i too was a newcomer to that group and did not stick around, but 2 things were very striking in that exchange: (a) the groupthink among those who equated jazz-love with egalitarianism (or, conversely, jazz-hate with racism) was scary, (b) i really don't think most of them actually were that big fans of jazz but felt a guilt-driven need to affirm their deep love for americana (and simultaneously, pay some sort of penance for the supposed crimes of their countrymen from the past).

 

back to the primaries.

i went to the msnbc website to look at the exit poll data, specifically for alabama (as an example of a seemingly extremely racist state, and ignoring arkansas because of the clinton home-state advantage):

(a) there is no indication of the % of eligible voters in the state who are registered democrat. there is also no indication of the % registered democrats who bothered to vote in the primary. low turnout polls provide less robust results than high turnout ones.

(b) clinton's advantage occurs in the over 65 age group, and equally among white men and women. the whites in alabama are demographically older and the blacks demographically younger. this sort of age-spread and age-regression is consistent with hillary being somewhat more conservative in her positions (or at least giving that impression, presumably from her arkansas days) and appealing to older voters, and for obama appealing to younger voters.

(c)  obama beats clinton in all categories by income, which just means that people lied on this part of the poll.

(d) level of education matters, but we need to regress that with age. the division of college-grad vs. highschool dropout is meaningless when the college-grad is 30 and the dropout is an independent business owner who grew up during world war 2.

most of the other categories indicate that impulse voters (who decided to show up at the last minute), and those who consider their personal philosophy to be moderate/republican have all gone more for clinton. none of this indicates racism. if it was a clinton vs. edwards choice, i suspect the splits would have been similar (with edwards gaining a small "man"-advantage).  

 

finally, if anything, whites in alabama are less racist and sexist than blacks in alabama. 75% of whites (about 50% of registered democrats) went for clinton, but 85% of blacks (also about 50% of registered democrats) went for obama.

finally finally finally, if you (dave) and i were magically dropped off in the street corner of bumfuck, alabama (or whatever shit-towns they have there), and we pulled aside a random white democrat and a random black democrat, and asked each of them to explain why they voted the way they did (making full allowances for lies), do you really think that the black person would offer a nuanced and reasoned explanation for why he/she thinks obama is a better candidate for president than hillary, or atleast offer a better explanation than the white person? most likely, each person is voting based on someone else's advice about who would be better for their narrow self-interest. voting based on ignorance is never going to produce sensible results.

by neo on 05/12/2008 10:48:38 PM EST

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I have been trying to tell y'all the Midwest is as racist if not more than the south (right Chris?).

I am more scared of racist voters in PA, MI, OH, WI and MN than any southern state.  For one thing we have a good chance to win all those states.  The southern states are meaningless. 

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 11:33:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"I am more scared of racist voters in PA, MI, OH, WI and MN than any southern state.  For one thing we have a good chance to win all those states.  The southern states are meaningless." 

While Barack Obama is expected to carry 99% of the African American vote, it turns out that the black population is concentrated way down south in the land of cotton. The only state where the black vote might make the election interesting is Virginia, but I don't think VA has gone Democrat since 1976. If Obama chooses Hillary as his running mate, they will probably carry Arkansas.
where's waldo?

by KenTX on 05/13/2008 01:02:23 AM EST

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(WTF is with me agreeing with trolls tonight?) 

BUt I would say NC and TX tighten up due to this,  Probably MO and MI and maybe OH.  Don't be fooled by the number of squares of each color.  You have to find the counties people live in.

One day Ken will learn we count elections by people not acres.  I bet there are more people in the six counties at 25% or more black in MI than the other counties combined.

Tell me true, Ken, what % of the people in TX live in that dark part on the right-hand side.  You know, where you live.  What % live in the yellow part to the left and in the panhandle?  What is left?  DFW?  Austin? SA?  He has one of those metro areas in the bag.  SA is interesting.

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 01:50:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Rich, remember that "dream ticket" Texas election in 2002, where Democrats ran a black guy for Senate and a Latino for Governor? I hope that experience was as good for you as it was for me. The only white person who voted for those two was that old hag, Ma Richards. I really miss her and her Robin Hood mentality.

by KenTX on 05/13/2008 02:25:39 PM EST

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In all honesty, I would say that a black person voting for Obama, and similarly a woman voting for Clinton, is not racism or sexism because they are voting to advance a member of a group that was historically oppressed.  It is historic and nobody could fault a person who wants to see that group achieve the highest popularity contest in the country. 

On the other hand, a vote against Obama because of his race and a vote against Clinton because of her sex would be racist or sexist. 

by jawill11 on 05/13/2008 11:25:11 AM EST

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Positive racism (I support this person because they belong to a historically repressed group) is better than negative racism (I hate these people).

Not sure one is wrong and one is right but one is clearly less wrong. 

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 12:21:35 PM EST

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I really could not disagree more, respectfully.

I guess it comes down to the definition of racism.  In my opinion, wanting to help advance an oppressed group is not a negative thing and does not meet my definition of racism (positive or negative).  In my definition of racism, you have to be AGAINST a certain race.  If you are trying to bring about equality through support for a particular race, that doesn't mean that you are against any other race.  Therefore, your actions are not racist. 

by jawill11 on 05/13/2008 01:52:09 PM EST

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I took great pains to say I wasn't sure if positive racism is bad.  Haven't decided.  I just know it is preferable to negative racism.  Or chicks covered in tattoos.

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 02:43:56 PM EST

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I'm not sure why I wrote my reply in a way that implied that we were on two opposing sides of an argument. 

My point is that in my opinion, the issue at hand would not qualify as positive racism.  I'm not even sure if it exists in my mind.  I say that because I think that you have to be against a race to be racist.  So, even if you are supporting a race, you have to be doing it in a way that makes you against other races to be racist. 

For example, I would say that a white supremacist is racist becuase they are trying to advance a race, but saying that it is superior to other races, and otherwise denigrating other races.  That is racist.  On the other hand, someone who is interested in preserving Russian heritage (or whatever), but not in a way that puts down any other race or group, it is not racist. 

by jawill11 on 05/13/2008 03:02:52 PM EST

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 MrFred, Why or how did you find this insignificant news blurb from a place far away from where you live?

Well, I spent 4 years living in Colts Neck NJ in the early 90's, The Jersey Freeze was a long, long standing tradition . Symbolic or just sad...let the people decide, NJ voters support traditional Dem candidates, like Hillary.

PS: Jersey Freezes broaden other things as well...

 

by MRFred on 05/12/2008 02:00:08 PM EST


That's some pricey real estate. I thought you had a government job.

by z1p101 on 05/12/2008 02:51:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I lived on the NWS EARLE , at Colts Neck

by MRFred on 05/12/2008 05:47:33 PM EST

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Questions:  Why did Obama do well with white voters in CA, CT, VA, and to some extent GA?  Why did he do so poorly with white voters in NJ?  Why did he do so dramatically poorly with black voters in New York (61%)?

New York is easy, and N.J. plays into it - It's Hillaryland. They were more familiar with Clinton, simple as that. Then, if you add in the Obama undercount things make a little more sense in N.Y.

Look, you had these states before Super Tuesday - N.J.'s voting day:

Iowa, caucus (Obama)
New Hammpshire, primary (Hillary)
Michigan (didn't count)
Nevada, caucus (Hell, I STILL can't figure this one - say 'Hillary')
South Carolina (Obama)
Florida (didn't count)

Keep in mind that at that time, most black people still didn't think Obama had a snowball's chance in hell and Hillary was walking down the throne toward coronation.

Things have changed.

I have a collection of Lord Of The Rings (extended versions, natch) that I would be willing to bet that if the primary were to be held over today in Jersey, the results would be significantly different.

by MedfordTim on 05/12/2008 02:40:27 PM EST


What’s the matter with NJ?
Well, for starters, jughandles.
jugs
Then there are the enormous tomatoes, grown in soil rich in nuclear and chemical waste.

(I'll stop now, but I could go on and on.)

Why did so many more Texas white people vote for Barack Obama than New Jersey white people?
Reverend Wright insulted Italians, so “there ain’t no way they’s votin’ for some moulinyan!” (mulignane)

Meanwhile, every Texas good ol’ boy voted for Obama, because “they’s no way any self respectin’ white man will vote for a (fill-in-the-blank) in November.”

by KenTX on 05/12/2008 03:27:00 PM EST


the jug handle. Baffles people from out of state. They exist because most areas do not have the room to expand the highway for a left turn only lane. You have no idea how many times I have seen someone with out of state plates trying to make a left turn at a light on a 2 lane highway and saying to myself "you are going to die".

The sweet corn and tomato farms have been mostly covered up by condos and town houses so it is no longer an issue. NJ fun fact, it is the only state in the union without a rural district.

Mulignane or "mooley" or just "yam" is an Italian slur (like the n word) for black people. I have been told that it is the Italian word for egg plant but I can't verify that. Trust me, Italians are not insulted.

"Meanwhile, every Texas good ol’ boy voted for Obama, because “they’s no way any self respectin’ white man will vote for a (fill-in-the-blank) in November.” "

In Jersey, they will do what their union tells them to do. Just like I explained to Dave. 

by z1p101 on 05/13/2008 02:43:15 AM EST

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