ITS SWIFT BOAT TIME KIDS!

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I know this is a Republican move, but I have NO problem kneecapping this prick if this stuff is even close to being true.

Plus, crashing four planes outside of combat is pretty bad.

http://www.vietnamveteransa gainstjohnmccain.com/cin_my sticalmccain.htm

Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school.  He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft. 
His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945. 
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat. 
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it." 
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom. 
McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral." 
McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. 
Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees. 
McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship. 
McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi. 
After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton. 
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain. 
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain. 
When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs. 
The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince." 
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals. 
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down." 
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism. 
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.

 

< Some lemmings pause at the cliff | Framing The Debate >
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I have no idea is any of this is verifiable. What I do know is that it's just a sideshow. This group, Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain, formed in January, is one of many that believes that American POWs were left behind in Southeast Asia after the war's end and that the US government abandoned them and covered up the fact for years.

This belief was once widespread in the general public, as polls will attest, but interest has largely faded over the years. The last time it got much attention was in the early 90s, when a Senate committee chaired by McCain and John Kerry was set up, looked at a lot of evidence, discounted most of it and came to the conclusion that it probably wasn't true and that no cover-up existed. At the time, Kerry allowed as how there was no way to definitively prove there weren't live captives being held somewhere, and the committee's conclusions would not satisfy everyone. That has certainly been the case with the hardcore conspiracists. They consider Kerry and McCain to be the worst kind of traitors.

So why didn't you hear from these people four years ago, when Kerry ran for President (this group has no connection to the Swiftboat Vets who did their own kind of mischief.)? You can be sure they tried to get their message out, but likely didn't have the resources to break through.

This new group is just one of many among the believers that US soldiers were left behind, and there is no one group or person who speaks for the movement, which has its factions and squabbles among them. These groups include family members of men who went missing in action and were never found, some veterans' groups, and associated lawyers and other advocates (for some reason, a lot of bikers seem to have taken up the cause). Outside the groups you have grandstanders of questionable motivation, such as NH State Sen. Bob Smith and former NC Congressman Bill Hendon, stirring the pot.

For the record, I don't believe any of it, but who's to say these people don't deserve to be heard? America never finished having this conversation. You see the black "POW-MIA/You are not forgotten" flag everywhere, which strongly implies there are abandoned soldiers sitting out there in prison camps, waiting - in some places (my home state of Massachusetts being one) it is required to fly this flag over post offices or other public buildings. Even those who recognize it's less likely any captives from 35 years ago are still alive have the feeling they were never told the whole truth. Who better to have to confront these questions than McCain?

Viet Vets vs. McCain needs help - lots of money and a better web designer would be a start. What all these groups really need is a spokesman who can unify their efforts and make their concerns break out into the public discourse.

Here's a link that will tell you more about this new group:

http://www.miafacts.org/mcc ain.htm

 

 

 

by ashbul on 05/17/2008 05:53:04 PM EST


No Cal.  Let the Republicans have their swift boating. It's a move for people with no sense of honor at all.  McCain didn't participate in it when they did it to Kerry, he spoke out against it.  I hate those fucking people, they're jackals, and the last thing in the world I'd like to see is good people emulate their behaviour.

Let it die with them. 

 

by bfaul on 05/17/2008 09:38:42 PM EST


These people have a highly developed sense of honor. They are sincere in their belief that McCain participated in a  treacherous effort to hide the truth about MIAs from the people.

The Swifboat Vets of four years ago (and I repeat, they have nothing to do with the present group) may well have been equally sincere in their belief that Kerry didn't deserve a hero's glory. What mattered was that others saw an opporunity to use these people whose status as vets who served alongside Kerry gave them a certain authority. They were bankrolled by outsiders who saw them as ideal attack dogs, and it worked.

Is it cynical of me to suggest that Viet Vets Against McCain (and others from the POW/MIA movement) deserve an angel of their own? Maybe. I'm not getting out my checkbook just yet. But I would not be sorry to see McCain confronted by these people, and forced to address their (probably unanswerable) questions.

by ashbul on 05/17/2008 10:42:14 PM EST

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The Republicans need to learn then lesson of why this is wrong, by having to deal with and expend more money dealing with it.

This isnt about honor--its about winning and saving the country.

Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty.

As far as Im concerned I want the GOP marginalized and contained, not a weakened and desparate party lashing out.

I want blood. The have it coming.

by calturner on 05/18/2008 08:31:45 AM EST

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I bet Karl Rove tells people the same thing.

You cant outlaw smear tactics; the fact is, the only way to change politics is by illustrating that something else works better. 

If Obama used this or gave the impression that he supported its use and won, it would show that it works.  Nothing would discourage someone else from using them again in future elections. 

I am not saying don't go on the offense, but attacks should be, at the very least, factual and relevant to the duties of the office if we have any hope that politics is going to change.

by richardshort2001 on 05/18/2008 06:58:31 PM EST

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If this is true, people have a right to know. Just letting McCain get away with a lie because you dont have the stomach to call him what he is: A LIAR is nothing short of "appeasement": you giving him legitimacy because you lack the courage to challenge him.

Lies and misrepresentations should never be allowed to float by safely because thats how this whole mess got started.

No comfort to liars and those who assist them.

by calturner on 05/18/2008 08:42:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
...it's not a lie if you believe it.

by ashbul on 05/18/2008 09:43:33 PM EST

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