The fallacy of Centrism

Email Print posted by MedfordTim 05/03/2008 12:45:52 PM EST

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In another thread, Lord Foul and I had the following exchange:

LF: This country runs best from the center (there I think we disagree)

MT: The "center" might be nice...except it never is the center. Imagine American politics as a seesaw, six feet long. You would assume that the center would be at the three foot mark, right? But, sadly, no. The left side of our seesaw is only one foot while the right has five feet. The "center" has been out of alignment for decades.

Coincidentally, NOW had an interview with Willie Brown and Dan Schnur last night in which McCain is referred to as a "centrist" by Schnur and host David Brancaccio calls him a "moderate Republican."

What a load of crap! McCain himself has said, "I am a conservative Republican." Not a moderate, not a centrist, a Conservative Republican. Can we put all other labels to rest, please?


And while we're at it, stop calling Hillary and Barack "Liberal," all right? Neither one is truly Liberal - they already are "Centrists" although Hillary is in reality a conservative in centrist's clothing, same as Bill was.

What is wrong with Centrism, you ask? For starters, there ain't no such critter. Whenever someone starts talking about going to the "center," notice how far Right they have to lean to even get close. Even the Republicans who want to approach the "center" have to move to the Right.

"Centrism" sent us into Iraq. It got us "No Child Left Behind." It got us the Bush tax cuts. It got us "Medicare Reform." It got us Roberts and Alito. It got us Petraeus. It got us back to back to back "filibusters" that force the Senate to get 60 votes minimum to pass a bill every single time instead of a simple majority.

"Centrism" is championed on the Democratic side by Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, Rahm Emmanual, and a host of other morons. What good has "Centrism" ever done for Liberals - or, for that matter, Democrats?? All it ever gets us is watered down policy, doomed from the start because the compromises deemed necessary for passage build in a Republican failure component.

Keep in mind that Republicans - especially the most rabid Conservative ones - want to destroy the government. They want the "Free Market" corporations to run the country, not the people. Their entire reason for being is to stop social progress and maintain the status quo of 1952 for the wealthy. Period.

Wake the fuck up.

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The fallacy of Centrism | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
To me the center is (none / 0)
everything but the 32% lunatic fringe  kentx land

by Chinese Democracy on 05/03/2008 01:19:40 PM EST

I am perfectly centered, (none / 0)
and I invite you to join me.

Somewhere I have a photograph of myself, standing astride the four corners, where UT, NM, AZ, CO come together at a single point.

I drove a flag in the ground, and claimed these states for John McCain. Meanwhile, Rich forfeited FL and OH.  

So I have no idea how Barack Obama will reach 270? 

by KenTX on 05/04/2008 06:11:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Remind me, please (none / 0)
What was wrong with "Medicare Reform?"  What did this mean in the context of centrists?  I seriously don't know as I know very little about Medicare.

by jarett on 05/04/2008 02:40:47 AM EST

Memory refreshers (none / 0)

When introduced: Bush's Bogus Medicare Reform

just before passage: Medicare Reform: The Real Winners

3 years on: The States Step In As Medicare Falters

Recently: Latest Medicare projections renew alarm on long-term sustainability

Democrats should never have voted for passage of this bill. It was flawed from the get-go, too heavily geared toward privatizing the system and providing windfall profits for insurers and Big Pharma. It didn't solve any of the inherent problems of the system - like Iraq, Bush is biding his time until the clock runs out, he can shunt it to the next guy,  and everyone can start blaming Democrats again.

by MedfordTim on 05/04/2008 03:36:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Sleep walking (none / 0)
The seesaw is not out of line, in fact it is our favor. If you survey most Americans you will discover that they support "Liberal" values more than "conservative" value. From abortion, to wages, to supporting our troops. Most people agree with us on most issues.

Pubs beat us using classic propaganda techniques. They seem to have a neverending stream of crooks and liars who will say anything as long as they get paid. While the best "so-called" spokesperson we have is Kieth Olbermann. I love Keith but look at the language he uses. He throws out 5 & 10 dollar words routinely. The average American can't understand him and we wonder why we are called elitists.

They run their elections like advertising campaigns and are very specific about who they target and where.

For years Pubs have successfully painted our party as the minority party, (who only cares about blacks and women, no white males need apply). We then add fuel to the fire when "liberal&quo t; writers accuse voters (dem voters at that) of being racist for not voting for Obama. (While clearly ignoring the fact that Obama is winning the black vote by 95%).

Obama, by his own admission, admitted that he would not even be in this race if he was white " I would have been just another freshman Seator."

So race is an issue for whites and blacks. So what does the far left do? They push to nominate an unknown black candidate with a muslin name to be POTUS. Then they cry when the Pubs use his middle name or make Wright an issue. Make no mistake this election will be made to be white (moderates) vs black (militants).

I asked you before and I'll ask you again didn't it seem strange that the media sat on the Wright story for 2/3rds of the primary election? I warned everyone that something was wrong and no one listened. Everyone here knows that the corporate media is not our friend. and yet Obama got a free pass until now. Funny they helped ensure that Obama got the nomination and now they are tearing him apart, who woulda thunk it. At the same time they have been making an unprecedented push to get Clinton to back out (check out media matters, who have documented other drawn out primaries). We need to learn how to counter the real elites like matthews, russert and Dowd.

Like I said the majority of people agree with us, we just need to learn A) how to communicate better, B) get better candidates that appeal to the middle (voters) and C) get more people to vote.

If 75% of the population or more would vote we wouldn't be having the problems we have today.

And finally some liberals must grow up and act like they got a pair. We need to learn how to win elections, win the public relation battle, win the battles with the MSM. If the Pubs can do it so can we.

Oh that's right I'll just sit in a corner and cry and blog about those f''d up white voters. Life is just so unfair.

Deal with it. We can win. If we are willing to do what it takes.

4 years ago we cried because "pussy" Kerry wouldn't fight. Now you hate the one candidate left who has enough balls to fight the pubs on their own terms.

She can win the swing voters and the swing states necessary for a Dem victory. So what's it going to be. i'll hold my breath for my favorite candidate or accept reality and nominate the candidate that can win in November.

by LORD FOUL on 05/04/2008 06:14:09 PM EST

The problem with that entire post LF (none / 0)
is the fact that she is NOT winning.

She is not winning the popular vote
She is not winning the most delegates.

What she could do. She should do and fast.

by Chinese Democracy on 05/04/2008 10:10:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Where have you been all my life LORD FOUL??? (none / 0)
I know this is gonna sound totally gay - I want you to know that I love you...

Now, after you go vomit and clean yourself up, I want to tell you why...

You have just hit the nail on the head concerning this election - you have just summarized to the most simplest element why Liberals do not win, and why Democrats are perceived as Pussies -

I just wish they would listen and learn - but they wont -

Anyway, my apologies for the gay love thing, but when you're hot your hot!!!!

And our good friend Chinese democracy definitely is not - Here's the pic to prove it!!!

China Tiny


:)

by bobo1 on 05/04/2008 11:14:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I truly don't know what to make of LF... (none / 1)
"...Obama got a free pass until now"
"...didn't it seem strange that the media sat on the Wright story..."

Almost an entire month of Wright bashing, you call a "free pass?" Neither of the Dems have gotten a pass - that would be McCain. As far as "sitting on it" - maybe they thought like I did, that there really isn't a story there - until they had a few weeks between elections in which they had a lot of air time to fill up.

"The seesaw is not out of line, in fact it is our favor."

I wasn't talking about attitudes, I was talking about the political reality of Republicans and Conservative Democrats preventing any of those things you say people support seeing the light of day.

"The average American can't understand him ..."

The average American doesn't watch MSNBC. Only a couple of million. Same as the other cable news channels. (In that sense, it IS an "elite" group.) And I think you have way too low an estimation of what people understand, given the chance.

"She can win the swing voters and the swing states necessary for a Dem victory."

So can Obama. As he has shown already.

You claim to have liberal thought and yet you want to see another conservative Clinton (friend of Murdoch, Sciafe, and O'Reilly) in the race. Why? Her campaign has descended into "Republican Lite" and you say "You GO Girl!" as though that was a GOOD thing?

Come November, will you vote for the Democratic candidate?

by MedfordTim on 05/04/2008 11:59:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A Dem who wants to win (none / 0)
Tim,

Where have you been since last year? Rolling Stone "broke" the wright story before Obama even announced his candidacy. No mention in Iowa, new hamshire, super tuesday? The SNL skit was pretty dead on when it came to Obama. They knew about this for over a year and suddenly now the MSM catches on? This was not done to fill air time my friend, if you believe that then you haven't been paying attention for the last 30 years. this was a set up plain and simple. They hammered Edwards and Clinton for months. sadly it is only going to get worse. This isn't a big story to you but it is to the swing voters, (I know f " them), but without them we lose.

You don't understand politics, most of it is local. Politicians are beholden to their voters. A lot of it comes to communication and perserverence. for example the estate tax, remember that. Pubs tried to get it overturned for years without success. Then they set their advertising to work. They made sure that every Pub and every talking head called it the death tax. The worked on it for years until finally they convinced enough people that the tax effected them and they successfully got it repealed.

Recently they have been doing the same with Social security, they have already convinced millions that SS won't be their when they retire. Which is all part of their plan to privatize it.

I have to go to the dictionary to understand Keith sometimes. Do you really want to debate the intelligence of the american people? watch Leno, ever see his street interviews where he asks routine questions any 5th grader could (should) answer? I am sure you have and I am sure you have laughed at all of the idiotic answers given by some adults including college students.

Obama has shown what exactly, let's be honest. What swing states has he won? Are you believing the same polls that had him winning PA or OH or TX? He wins caucuses which are dominated by liberal activists. He has won WI and MO and that was before "Wright". He needs to win poor and lower income whites to win the WH.

See here is your real problem Mr. Clinton was so conservative that the Pubs impeached him! Yup those individuals are friends (hahahahahah) of the Clintons. Hillary and Obama's policies are ruffly identical and yet she is conservative?


Yes i say "you go girl" she has more balls than Gore and Kerry combinded. Let me ask you an honest question would Hillary have rolled over in Ohio like kerry did in 2004?

I am voting for the Dem

Why are you quoting McCain? if you think the MSM is going to hammer him then you have another thing coming.

by LORD FOUL on 05/05/2008 07:51:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Why am I quoting McCain? (none / 0)
Because I appreciate irony. It's a new sig line, not specific to your post.

"Swing voters" and "Reagan Democrats" are two different critters. Notice which I have heaped scorn on.

Clinton, like the Clinton before her, will say ANYTHING to get elected - even espouse Liberal views which do not often translate into the votes she casts. Look at how many times she went along with Republicans when she didn't HAVE to.

You are repeating it, so I have to assume that you believe and accept the Republican/Hillary talking point, not based in any part of reality, that Obama can't take the states Hillary won in a general election. Pure conjecture, repeated as necessary until otherwise intelligent people start parroting it as though it made sense. Would you so readily latch on to a suggestion that Hillary could only win the states the prevailed in - other than the ones, like Texas, which WILL go for the Republican?

The press didn't pay ANY attention to the Obama candidacy until AFTER Iowa - OF COURSE the MSM was after the two frontrunners. That's the way this stuff works. And if YOU don't think that Wright became the issue it did because there HAD to be a BULLSHIT issue to fill air time so the pundits didn't have to talk about boring ol' policy speak, YOU haven't been paying attention. How many times do they pursue the salacious over the substantive issue? Edward's hair cut or Edward's proposals for health care?

Here's a little clue about Leno - his show has an "editor." This person cuts out all the responses from people who have a clue. How funny would the bit be if there was a parade of knowledgeable people?

"I have to go to the dictionary to understand Keith sometimes."

Good!! That means he is NOT pandering to the lowest common denominator. And, it shows you haven't learned everything yet. I'm betting even Keith pulls out a dictionary on occasion. I know I do. Why should that be a stigma?

Look, you're ignoring some basic math. 122M out of 220M eligible voted in 2004, Bush getting about 62M of the votes - 28% of the population. Only 3 million votes separated Bush & Kerry. The big story this year has been the incredible number of new Democrat registration while Republican is stagnating or ebbing. If the general were held today, the Democrat WOULD win, and unless something truly incredible happens between now and November, it will be the same then.

"...would Hillary have rolled over in Ohio like kerry did in 2004?"

Probably not, but I have no inkling that Obama would either.

"You don't understand politics, ..."

Please don't confuse frustration with the status quo, anger at shady practices, and a desire to elevate the process with ignorance.

Nice chattin' with ya!

by MedfordTim on 05/05/2008 10:43:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
How ironic (none / 0)
I know a lot of swing voters (reagan Dems) who just love irony.

Yup picking up a dictionary is a great American past time.

Yup Keith isn't the least bit biased is he.


We could beat a dead horse I think we both made our points I will close saying this.


Obama has only been hammered by the media for the last month, Clinton has been hammered from the beginning. Yet here we are and if not for Donna Brazille, she might even be in front.

by LORD FOUL on 05/06/2008 08:54:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The fallacy of Centrism | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
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