Good Times at Trinity Church, "Spiritual" home of Barack Obama for over 20 years...

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Why do I have to be the one to post this here? 2 days and not a word from anyone... Good old Trinity Church, at it again - Hey, at least it isnt Wright this time...

I hope there is no further doubt as to why many Americans, including many Democrats, will not vote for Obama for President. If these are his friends, i can imagine who his enemies might be:

http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=_H11x6bMu4Y&e

Its not the good reverend so much, but its the reaction of the audience that hits the nail on the head - I know this wont get a lot of mainstream airtime, but believe me when I say that we know how you really feel about at least 50% (or more) of the electorate in this country...

I appreciate your time as always...

:{
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 Display:

Who is this "we" of whom you speak bobo?  The republicans that pay you a salary to post on this site?

"...but believe me when I say that we know how you really feel about at least 50% (or more) of the electorate in this country..."

Too bad you are only making Obama supporters stronger by letting them practice their fight here before the general election.  If this is the best you can do, we are on Easy Street.  Good luck with your buddy McSame.  Because that is who you are supporting, right?

...and to forestall your inevitable "obamabot" comments, I will remind you that I was an Edwards supporter, and will happily vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination by some miracle.   

by desertpear on 05/30/2008 01:29:07 AM EST


of media coverage because it's an old story.

This is the American people we are talking about and they are done with the Wright story and whatever goes with it. They are now looking for the next Brittney crotch shot to dominate the news cycles. This is like bringing up Monica and the blue dress, no one cares any more.

Sorry man, that's the way it is. 

 

by z1p101 on 05/30/2008 01:32:14 AM EST


A tired ass played out story no one gave a shit about the first time around.

Nice work, bobo! 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 01:49:35 AM EST


hardly played out already... I saw it on CNN this afternoon - maybe they're just a bit slow...

Not devestating to the campaign itself, but it so helps in painting that complete picture of who Obama chooses to associate with and give his trust and his money to... for 20+ years mind you...

And how come Farrakhan's name keeps coming up when I google this Pfleger guy? And Jesse jackson is standing behind him in many pics Ive seen...Hmm... I'm not saying anything, Im just sayin....

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 02:01:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Is it because you've always got sand in your vagina about something?

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 02:14:02 AM EST

[ Parent ]

You could have broken this "story" to Cenk.

Just out of curiosity, where do you get your news?  You already told us that you don't look at news sites, and you've expressed your disdain for the mainstream media on more than one occasion.  So where do you hear about things,  because I'm fairly sure that this wasn't on TYT today.

But, whatever the source, thanks for the info.  I'll make sure to not vote for Michael Pfleger.

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 01:49:57 AM EST


about a 10 second mention of it on CNN this afternoon - then it was gone like a fart in a duststrom - swoosh....

Thats where I first saw it - I am unsure of the date when it happened - really doesnt matter, I suppose - the audience reaction speaks volumes... It might not be front page news, but it sure paints a great picture for all of those "undecideds"

Thanks...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 01:53:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]

What exactly is the problem with the audience reaction now?

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 02:03:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
went out this afternoon (explaining my abrupt departure from the chat today) I turned on the tele and watched CNN for a spell - thats when I saw this little tidbit...

Cenk would have assuredly pushed this off to the side as inconsequential, of little or no meaning - basically giving more of Obamas "associates" a free pass...

Would you also like to know what I ate for dinner, Spence? Hot dogs, with Mayo Mustard, onions and guacamole...

Have a nice evening...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 02:08:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Was I invading your privacy?  I was only trying to get your message out to the TYT masses.  I wanted us all to get our learn on, bobo style.

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 02:13:16 AM EST

[ Parent ]
What is the problem with the audience reaction again?  I must have missed you telling me.

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 02:19:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The audience in the video was something you would see in your typical African American comedy show or movie when they make fun of white people... rolling, laughing hysterically and cat calling as this Reverend Pflegler guy basically called Hillary a Racist White Honky that should repent for the sins of her ancestors and crawl back into the hole whence she came... now as I enjoy movies from Tyler Perry and Tim Story (Barbershop), I get the humor and its reaction, I guess I just expected more decency from churchgoers...

It wasnt all African Americans at the church, though, which shows that the disdain for Hillary in Obamas congregation is not purely racial... I just thought it was a bit showy and rude, and it certainly did not give a comforatble feeling of "understanding and togetherness" as Obamas Campaign tries (unsuccessfully) to say that the party should unite behind him...

Now I know it wasnt Obama laughing, and it wasnt an "official" campaign event etc, but it still shows the utter lack of class and humility by followers of someone who is running for president.

Yeah, Obama won - why do they (the people in the video) and a lot of you guys here at TYT pour salt on the wounds of the Democratic Schism? I suspect a great many Democrats will not vote for Obama because of the behavior/attitudes of Obama's followers, not because of Obama himself...

keep laughing guys...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 02:21:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You will find that Americans have short attention spans about everything, including dems that currently hate Hillary or Obama.  Hating doesn't have to be forever. ;)

by desertpear on 05/30/2008 02:24:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Just as my hate for Yoko Ono has lasted 30+ years now, I suspect many people, especially those in the Hillary hard core camp (there's an image for you!) are not gonna be able to squelch their hatred for the Obama movement (especially for the arrogant youthful Obamabots) ...

Not to say Obama cant win because of this (He is running against Grandpa Death himself) - but it isnt gonna make the next 4 years any easier for him within his own party...

Hate, unfortunately, can last forever and is as equally powerful as its opposite, which we know as love...  - Thats a bobo1 original quote there, folks!

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 02:47:34 AM EST

[ Parent ]

for a Marvell geek moment. I figured out who bobo is.

HM 

by z1p101 on 05/30/2008 03:05:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]

But I think of bobo more as the Monsieur Mallah to Ken's Brain.  There's even a gay monkey on evil-dissembodied-brain love affair.

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 03:39:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]
This is above my geek clearance level.

I am guessing Hate Man?

by richardshort2001 on 05/30/2008 12:43:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Fought Captain America and the Avengers and FF that I know of.

Has his hate-ray gun there. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 12:49:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What kind of a man would take his family to a church for 20 years that spews this kind of vile hatred from the pulpit week in and week out? This vomit didn't just come from the Rev Wright, but rather it was preached by every nut that spoke in front of the church.

What kind of America does Barack Obama envison? If everyone surrounding him hates America, what is in his heart? 

I am now quite certain that the voters of OH, PA, WI, MI, NH, NM, VA will reject Barack Obama. He is just too risky to be president.

Bobo, I know you're a loyal Democrat, and you hate John McCain, but I would like to extend an invitation to you to consider voting GOP this year. Consider it an opportunity to just say no to the persecution of white people in America.

Thank you for sharing this information with the forum. I am literally shaking as I type this post.

by KenTX on 05/30/2008 03:06:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I was just thinking how fortunate it was that this revelation came out after Obama locked up the nomintion.

Allow me to exclaim in a whisper:
"ya-hoo baby!"

by KenTX on 05/30/2008 03:11:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]

and who would vote for a woman who allowed his husband to get away with getting a blow job from another woman?

What do these stories have in common? Nobody who is going to be important on election day cares anymore.

I heard McCain is talking amnesty again. Now there is a story with legs.

by z1p101 on 05/30/2008 03:15:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Will their hate for blacks outweigh their hate for Mexicans?  This'll be quite the battle royale.

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 03:17:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You look 3 kinds of crazy responding to your own posts under a different nic.

by Chinese Democracy on 05/30/2008 04:01:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Do bobo1 and KenTX post in the same "voice"?

Do we really sound alike?

by KenTX on 05/30/2008 04:30:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
but they refer to themselves in the 3rd person

Cuckoo Cuckoo

by Chinese Democracy on 05/30/2008 04:39:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]

once and for all, is no.

If they're the same person, Ken should get some sort of forum acting award (a Forumy?), because bobo is fucking insane.  Ken is also fucking insane, but funny sometimes.  The differences are subtle.  It's like really shitty box wine.

Though it is always weird when Ken responds to his own comments. 

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 04:46:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]

an odd choice to parallel this situation? Don't you want to reconsider that one?

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 03:23:54 AM EST

[ Parent ]
That was a reference to an earlier posting by tiggerporn about an old Lennon song - somehow, the discussion turned to Yoko Ono and I was accused a being  vile Hater...

Truth is, I really hate Yoko Ono, and thats never gonna change... Sorry...(not really)

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 03:27:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"somehow, the discussion turned to Yoko Ono and I was accused a being  vile Hater..."  Maybe the conversation turned to Yoko because you called her a bitch for no reason.  Maybe that's also the reason you were accused of being a "vile Hater".  Maybe...

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 03:41:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]
because I believe the virulent hatred for Yoko is endemically mysogenist, and therefore an odd choice to parallel supposed hatred that Hillary supporters will have for Barack. It doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, Hillary is poised to lose the contest outright on June 3rd and then break the convention anyhow to spite her opponent and foul the election waters. You wanna talk about parallels to Yoko?

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 03:53:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
And I still hate her, and always will - Im sorry if that disrupts your quaint little world where everybody gets along...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 11:09:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
the question is the answer

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 02:03:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]

It's the Uncle Tom of white people--selling out his whole race for those darn negroes.  How dare he make fun of White Superiority? 

 

Actually his impression of Hillary's meltdown in NH is exactly how I felt about it.  She really did feel entitled to be president, and that's why it's become so hard for her to give up.  I don't necessarily agree that there is a racial element, but one can only assume he's a guy who knows how to play to an audience.   

by qsoundrich on 05/30/2008 02:18:23 AM EST


but I would say that there is a racial element because Hillary has repeatedly conjured up racial elements ever since the kitchen sink made an appearance.  The people at Trinity aren't stupid.  They know when someone is injecting race into something, as Hillary has repeatedly been doing, and they are sick of it.  It looked to me like they were just letting off some steeam from that offense. 

I was watching Morning Joe this morning (the anger it invokes in me wakes me up), and they were trying so hard to make this a story.  They were doing their whole innocent routine about how this will be a big story, feigning naivite about how only cable news will be harping on this and it is up to them how big of a story they want to make of it (my guess is really big to get them ratings off of a fake controversy).  In reality, no one cares. 

by jawill11 on 05/30/2008 08:08:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]

About 4 weeks into the Rev Wright non-stop coverage the on-air people at CNN and MSNBC began regularly referring to all the calls and e-mails they were getting about how no one gave damn about the Wright story?

Evidently Joe Scarborough is gonna show that mean old book-reading lesbo Maddow and bring back "the story that no one gives a shit about."

But I bet Joe was awesome at high school football.  So who am I to question.  Poor Joe, if he didn't have that "cute young dead girl" problem he might have been Speaker of the House.

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 10:33:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I liked his preaching, I agreed with him and found him to very passionate.

 

by Randomambusher on 05/30/2008 03:24:54 AM EST


you're officially more fun to read than KenTX who seems to have lost his mind. He's literally shaking as he reads this post. You're a better troll, and closer to the mainstream. You know how to keep people's interest. Still, I totally disagree with the premise of your blog here.

Let me first just say that, although it is clear to me that you are anti-Obama, it isn't at all apparent that you are actually a Hillary supporter. Is there anything about her that you actually like? Obama supporters want their guy to be president. By comparison, you seem to be fueled by pure white-hot hatred of everything to do with Barack Obama. So much so, that in your frustration to find anything tangible to hold against him, you're relegated to watching clips of sermons showing visiting preachers at a church he attends. C'mon are you kidding, man? You're just looking for a reason. If it wasn't this, you would find something else just as trivial.

Needless to say Rev. Pfleger's point about Hillary's sense of entitlement is dead on. Isn't that the same guy that tore that FOX news reporter a new one not long ago, or do they look similar to me because all white people look the same (I reject and denounce that remark)? 

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 03:45:33 AM EST


and bobo tx lies. He never saw anything about it on CNN

by Chinese Democracy on 05/30/2008 01:46:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]

1. I am a black person from that church and too bad the camera does not pan at the audience and show you the white members that were dancing in the background Bobo1 cause it's not a pure black church. 

 2. The pastor is reacting to the Hillarys racial campaign ploys  and Hillarys' outrageous actions as of late, which is felt not only by the church but the entire black community.

 3. Bobo1 it's people liek you that latch on to things like this to post and try to Spread Your View of Hate.

 Where are your post of other news worthy developments like police beatings and why don't i see you posting video links of KKK meetings and other racial bullshit. You don't you know why because you hate is focus like the point on a needle you only see what matters to you and people that think like you. Oh guess what just like the reverend what a surprise. 

by Jevon on 05/30/2008 09:16:19 AM EST


I already commented on how it was a mixed audience and I didnt think it was a purely racial issue...

Why is it that someone who brings this kind of video or occurence to light is automatically called KKK by Liberals? You, Prof Rich and whatever the Hell that Purple Comic book picture is shows me true compassion and acceptance that Liberals are famous for -


Just because I dont support Obama does not make me a racist or a Klan member... Talk about focused hate - the Obama followers have made it into a mantra - "support us or you will be labeled a racist!"


Thats why I am sick of the Obama supporters, and thats what Obama needs to fix on his campaign - you guys strut around like fighting Cocks after a victory, and when any voice of dissent is heard, they come down on it like a shit-storm screaming racist or bigot - Its not acceptable to silence dissent among your own ranks like that!!!!

This is not only a serious issue among the Hillary camp - this is something that is insidious and will spread to the general electorate - you guys cannot throw images of klansman up and then claim a moral authority and think you are gonna change the way politics is done - it is the lowest of the low, and Obama supporters show what kind of people they are each time it happens... classless...

Thanks for your comments, Jevon - I hope you can see what the real problem of this campaign is going to be...


by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 11:22:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I didn't call you a Klansmen (I've called you a racist and Ken a Klamsmen but that is because you are a racist and Ken used to be Ku Klux Klam but I digress).

I said if its such a great an important news story to cover Obama's most shocking endorsers then shouldn't it be to cover McCain's?

And the Klan has endorsed McCain.  Therefore CNN and MSNBC should roll the black church video and then immediately follow with a Klan meeting. Fair is fair.

Not only did I never suggest you were a Klansmen, since you are not a McCain supporter, I didn't even suggest you were on the side of the Klansmen! 

Now I know its already almost noon so you are probably shitcanned and you and Ken can't read (coincidence?) but don't accuse me of shit I didn't do, Drunky McDrunkerson. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 11:54:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
So you didnt directly come out and say - "Bobo1 is a Klansman" - but posting images and tying them in to the conversation (you and others) is still planting the seeds of racism into the discussion... Implying that I am a Klansman or racist simply because I do not support the Black canidate...

Are you saying that all McCain supporters are Klansman (hence all Republicans or just people who disagree with you?)

You dont have to come out a directly say something in order for you to make your very distinct point - Liberals are great at this game - associating guilt without having to answer for it directly - implying innuendo without having to assume responsibility for it...

Just keep being smug - it will come back to haunt you in the end...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 12:54:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Take bobo's post and reverse the roles like this:

Ok bobo 

So you didnt directly come out and say - "ProfRich is a whitey hater" - but posting videos and tying them in to the conversation (you and Ken) is still planting the seeds of racism into the discussion... Implying that I am a whitey-hater or racist simply because I do not support the Black canidate...

Are you saying that all Obama supporters are whitey-haters (hence all Democrats or just people who disagree with you?)

You dont have to come out a directly say something in order for you to make your very distinct point - Conservatives are great at this game - associating guilt without having to answer for it directly - implying innuendo without having to assume responsibility for it...

Just keep being smug - it will come back to haunt you in the end...

See? What happened here bobo made a stupid argument.  I parodied his argument by making it in reverse.  Bobo completely missed the satire and took the moral high ground on me for posting a parody of his own arguments which contained the very weaknesses and shameless tactics he is now condemning.

I am going to predict bobo will continue to miss this point. 

Oh, and if I wanted to call you a Klansmen, I would come right out and call you a Klansmen.  Much like your high school prom, there would be no bush beating about it. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 01:15:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Considering what I have learned from Fox News and Right Wing Radio, constant repitition of the same message is the only way these people learn anything.

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 01:43:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You forgot the "Niener Niener Boo Boo" at the end of your post.

You are such a joke...

:P

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 02:36:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I drink it all up, you sad little clown.

Now go drown your sorrows in your rotgut and blame it all on the darkies. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 02:46:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My Milkshakes bring all the Libs to the yard

Damn right, they're better than yours,

Damn right, they're better than yours,

I could teach you, but I'd have to charge!

:P

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 07:24:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
shoving your black culture down my throat.

by Spencer on 05/30/2008 11:30:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Practically the whole anti-Obama campaign has been unfairly associating him with other people's comments.

Come on, bobo.  This very pic of Klansmen you used as an example was Prof showing how silly it is to judge someone by their supporters, which YOU were doing.

by richardshort2001 on 05/30/2008 01:22:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bobo you have wasted my time and every other TYT member that read or replied to your post. 

by jdenham on 05/30/2008 10:15:54 AM EST


I demand we see coverage of the supporters of the candidates!  I want it wall to wall, all the time.

For example, why does the liberal media insist on ignoring McCain's supporters?  Shouldn't they get coverage too?

McCain Rally 

What a load of hypocritical crap.  The pubs don't even want it mentioned George Bush supports Mccain but everyone jackass who get near a cell phone with a video recorder is supposed to be front page news.

Kind of like the preacher problem, if you want to play "who has the most reprehensible supporters" then lets play.  None of this half-ass crap. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 10:21:59 AM EST


and your, as usuall, 100% wrong.

What really pissed you off is the good pastor had the guts to say it. Oh yeah he was white. How dare he!

All one has to do is look at the Clintons revised campaign tactics since it became obvious that the "inevitablity" tactic (up until Iowa )wasnt going to work. Then substitute "Clinton" for "white people" and it all becomes perfectly clear.

I suppose the hoots of laughter and cheers from the CPAC crowd at "Edwards is a little faggot" comment or Limbaugh's openly racist rant's or the thinly veiled racism of his "Justice Brothers" parodies ,the blogger who shall remain nameless's shameless parroting of right wing hate speech here at TYT doesn't bother you. 

Of course the subversion of democracy here in the US by the Bush Administration doesn't bother you either.

That's perfectly OK, the perpetrators were white people after all.

Please. 

by MRFred on 05/30/2008 10:41:09 AM EST


hadn't heard anything about it till this morning. Sadly I do not know what is worse. The video I saw or the reaction here.

The good reverand is nothing more than a peddler in hate and bigotry.

The majority of people on welfare are white, tell them about their sense of entitlement.

How about the working poor? mostly white, ask them about their sense of entitlement.

I would like to ask the good Reverand how could Mr & Mrs. Obama both be making 6 figure salaries in such a racist and bigoted land

ASK THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS, (WHO ARE WHITE), IN NOVEMBER ABOUT THEIR SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT.

and liberals wonder why we lose elections. Yes I did use the term we. I am a liberal and what I saw disgusted me.
Let's get to Clinton. She had a sense of entitlement? How about Obama? not 2 years in the U.S. Senate and he believes he should be POTUS? At least people like her and Edwards paid their dues before running for Pres.

I have a question for my fellow liberals who are defending this clown? If White America is indeed so racist, what makes you think they will put a "black" man in the WH?

Many of you think I am anti-obama and that is not true. I am pro victory. I want to win. the majority of people in this country don't really know Obama. A Presidential election is not the place to go on a get to know me tour.
15% already think he's a muslim. By the end he will be the black militant who hates white people.

Take a look over the edge friends, take a good long look. What good is a Dem congress with a Pub President?

The best part is this, WE know their is still more to come. Drip, drip, drip. Guess what happens when he loses his "Clinton" shield. It will be the I hate whitey show morning noon and night. Gas will go down, the economy will go up and some troops will come home. the question, do you want him to take your "entitlement" away from you?

We have seen the enemy and it is us and our own stupidity.

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 11:26:53 AM EST


...not enough reason.

Wrong: Let's get to Clinton. She had a sense of entitlement? 

Correct: Let's get to(the) Clintons. They have a sense of entitlement. 

I too want to see the subversion of democracy for personal gain crowd to go away. I dont particularly care who is the nominee. But let put blame where it belongs, squarely on the Clinton's shoulders.

The Clinton's began campaigning for the Democratic nomination in 2002 for crying out loud..6 years of lobbing, fund raising..then suddenly Obama comes onto the scene. At first, he was a novelty; nice speeches, good presence, but a relative unknown. As a result the Clinton's made the grave error of underestimating the competition. Now its whaa whaa whaa...Clintons version of " they will great us as liberators." If the Clinton's had produced a compelling message other than "Remember how good things where we were in DC." and depending on the inevitability illusion we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 Wrong: I would like to ask the good Reverend how could Mr & Mrs. Obama both be making 6 figure salaries in such a racist and bigoted land

Correct I would like to ask the good Reverend how could Mr & Mrs. Obama both be making 6 figure salaries in such a racist and bigoted land without affirmative action programs.

 I doubt it. The best and brightest tend to rise to the top..Obama no doubt had the advantage of those programs (to give him a little leg up )plus living in the burbs helped.

I am pro victory. I want to win. the majority of people in this country don't really know Obama.

What they need to know is, and they will be painfully aware by November is that the economy will really be in the crapper, gas will be 4.90 or so...and McCain will still be 72 years old and hopelessly , inexorably tied to Bush's policies.

That being said stop whining and start working.Make it happen. I plan on it. How about you? 

by MRFred on 05/30/2008 12:05:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
put a dent in the Clinton  whites wont vote for Obama theory?

by Chinese Democracy on 05/30/2008 01:51:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
They mean old, uneducated racists.   They don't mean white like people with light skin or people of Caucasian descent.  HillarySpeak is different, like HillaryMath.

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 02:20:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]

excluding the painfully undereducated blue collar whites, (what's left of them).

In my view, the problem, or delusion, if you prefer, is that both parties view voters as monolithic blocs of people divided by some trait or concern and given a moniker of somekind, like for example,  Reagan Democrats. That's the old thinking.

There is a new dynamic here,  we aren't talking wedge issues, or some special interest politics, we are talking survival of the Republic.  The fact that Obama has pickled up on it and he happens to be 1/2 black is incidental to what appears to be a shift in the mood of the electorate.

The Republican exploited the "me" issues, since 1980 fooling at least 51% of the voters, convincing them that tthe Republicans had their best interests in mind. We all know how that turned out. The core rich white Republicans are significantly richer..every one else is going down the toilet.

 

by MRFred on 05/30/2008 02:35:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]

We hear a lot about this.  How Rove looked for divisive wedge issues to drive small blocks of voters to create a half+1 majority with no cohesive mandate or belief system, just each demographic voting its own wedge issues.

Mark Penn was, evidently, a disciple of this school (albeit on the other side of the aisle).

I think its called Microtrends.

Obama is definitely operating on a much more visionary "offer the people something they can believe in as a vision for the whole country" principle.  Similar to FDR. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 02:44:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Unfortunately, a microtrend isn't going to stave off a macro-disaster for the United States.

Our good friend , the blogger that shall remain nameless is a prime example of the "me" crowd, a 51%ter throwing those wedges, no matter how fantastic, fallacious or disingenuous they maybe, desperately hoping to get some traction. Preserve the status quo at all costs.

 

 

 

by MRFred on 05/30/2008 03:05:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What exactly am I supposed to believe in? what vision do you see? Sililar to FDR? how

specifics would be helpful

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 04:50:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I did not mean to imply that Obama has a vision that is clear and overwhelmingly superior to the other candidates campaigns, I just meant he is trying a borad appeal of hope, America can be fixed and we can all work together as opposed to the last 20 or 30 years which have been I'm the religious candidate or I'm the pro-this or that candidate or I'm the pro-minority candidate.

I was only discussing tactics.  I think of FDR when I think of non-divisive, visionary candidates.

I think the microtrend, shave out your 51% strategies work well in extremely polarized situations with a roughly even Dem/Pub split.

I think Obama is banking we have come to (or passed in 2006) a watershed that has tilted the playing field our way (as we did in 1930) and we don't need to play out these knife fight, game of inches tactics.

As for the relative merits of these strategies and how well each candidate has executed thier chosen playbook I will let those who care more than me fight that out. 

by ProfRich on 05/31/2008 12:23:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Out of the past comes an article that closely ties Michael Pfleger to Barack Obama.
“In April 2004, Barack Obama told a reporter from the Chicago Sun-Times that he had three spiritual mentors or counselors: Jeremiah Wright, James Meeks, and Father Michael Pfleger—for a change of pace, a white Catholic preacher who has a close personal feeling for the man he calls (as does Obama) Minister Farrakhan.”

In fact, Pflegler’s resume makes frequent mention of work with Louis Farrakhan. There are videos of Pflegler calling Farrakhan “his brother”.


Louis Farrakhan has strongly endorsed the candidacy of Barack Obama. (It starts getting good around the 4:00 minute mark.) He calls Obama "The Hope of the Entire World".

Barack Obama proudly reported his participation in the Million Man March
.

There's a history and a pattern of behavior that is becoming clear. Pflegler. Farrakhan. Wright. Obama.

Anyone remember the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth? What did they have to work with? A grain of rice in John Kerry's ass?

by KenTX on 05/31/2008 03:24:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I remember the old 70s Don Mclean song about Vincent Van Gogh - the last line reads:

"They're not listening, they're not listening still, perhaps they never will..."

Oh well... Its their demise, not mine!


:)

by bobo1 on 05/31/2008 03:35:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Obama took time off from attending campaign coffees to attend October's Million Man March in Washington, D.C. His experiences there only reinforced his reasons for jumping into politics.

"What I saw was a powerful demonstration of an impulse and need for African-American men to come together to recognize each other and affirm our rightful place in the society," he said. "There was a profound sense that African-American men were ready to make a commitment to bring about change in our communities and lives.

by KenTX on 05/31/2008 04:15:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The NY Times blog said Oregon was not representative of the rest of the country, or some such total nonsense.

by desertpear on 05/30/2008 02:40:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I sort of got used to your great "factual" combacks, you make good points and back it up with facts.

What the h happened?

I never said that Clinton didn't share responsibility for her position. and yes things were good for the country back then (compared to now)
 
She began campaigning in 2002? So in other words she paid her dues and worked for the nomination. Someone who is entitled doesn't have to work for their positions as the good reverand pointed out.

Where did those affermintive action programs come from? Give you a hint White people. Who worked for those programs? people like Hillary Clinton.

The best and brightess rise to the top, then explain why he hasn't put her away yet. For all the baggage (like letting her husband get away with a blow job) for all the hatred on the far left. for all the negative media coverage she still stands.

Why do you avoid the meat of my arguement? You simply assume the status quo? I guarentee you that McCain will veer left after the convention (if not before) Have you noticed the sudden willingness to bring the troops home, or how some economist are predicting a turn around. You simply assume that gas prices fell right before the last election due to the market.

No my friend, things will be much different come Sept. They have been building a house against Obama and Obama's allies are providing the mortar.


by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 04:01:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]

But Hillary is gonna catch them totally by surprise.

Let me see if I got this.

First part of post: Hillary is so well prepared.  She has been positioning herself since 2002.  Obama just came out of nowhere.

Second part of post: We have to run Hillary, they are really prepared for Obama.  They have no plan for Hillary!

Hmmmm, curious logic.
  

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 04:34:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Mr fred claimed she has been running since 2002 I simply rebutted his arguement.

I never said Hillary would take them by surprise and i never said that they weren't prepared for her either

curios logic considering I never said those things

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 04:54:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

and I'll look for an "argument".

In the mean time heres some "facts" for you, I missed it by year...sorry my memory is not as good as it used to be. From Carl Bersteins book, A Woman In Charge, Clinton had been preparing for a potential candidacy for United States President since at least early 2003. Considering she had a 5 year head start the kid is doing pretty good, and she is a formidable candidate regardless.

Where did those affirmative action programs come from? Courts, those peskly activist judges , Democrats, and yes many are white. Your point? The fact that an individual takes advantage of an opportunity somehow demeans his ability?

I'm not going for the conspiracy spin on what the economists predict...they will predict anything depending on there politcal persuasion. Trust me, the consumer knows bullshit when he hears it.

No, the forces set in motion are well beyond any one groups control, a 3 or 4 cent per gallon dip isn't going to persuade many people after enduring a summer of oil and gas price scares based on hurricanes, whatever.

McCain plan today is to return to pre-surge levels, hardly a reduction. There is way to much "100 year" footage and flips flops for him to be much of anything else. He's married to Iraq. One burp in Iraq and down he goes, hard.

We'll see. 



by MRFred on 05/30/2008 06:30:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Your mind is made up but allow me to get to the meat and potatoes of my opinion.

I will accept your memory as accurate, she has been preparing to run for a long time. In the world according to the good father Hillary felt entitled simply because she was white and a black man stole her show.

Her sense of entitlement had nothing to do with her race anymore than it did Obama's race. Could it be, just possible, that she is human? That she worked hard on a goal only to lose to a young upstart?

My point about affirmative action is twofold: and strictly in regards to the current pastor flap. 1) Slavery didn't end on a wish, it took white people to achieve 2) Civil Rights also could not have been achieved without the help of whites. Go back and watch the tape. I am guilty because I am white and my ancestors white. It doesn't matter that Obama makes 5X plus what I make, I am still guilty and I have to pay.

Now think about this if I, as a liberal, am deeply offended by him and Wright. What will the rest of the electorate think or feel.


The consumer (voter) knows bullshit when he sees it? Have you watched the last 2 presidential elections? Don't forget the Dem congress the last 2 years.

Do you think McCain's flip flopping will matter to the press? I remember a certain candidate being against it before he was for it (and nobody called Bush on it). Kerry was the flip flopper despite the fact that Bush flip flopped on the very same issue.

You above all people know what I am saying, you know my concerns are valid. You also know people vote more on feeling than on facts. 

I am sick of groundhog day 

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 10:54:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Slavery didn't end on a wish, it took white people to achieve.

I'm not sure what the significance of the point is other than yes, it took "white" people to buy transport and maintain the slave trade. As the ruling elite at the time it took the efforts of the whites so inclined to "end it" as you put it. I wouldn't assign  any special significance to that fact nor any absolution for abolishing slavery, in short doing what should have been done in 1789.

The white people disinclined to end it started the CSA which fought the end of slavery. Those remaining after the Civil War perpetuated many of the practices during Jim Crow , practices and attitudes that we are still dealing with the remnants of to this very day.

No matter I understand what you saying but I don't think that was the context of the pastors remarks.

 The consumer (voter) knows bullshit when he sees it

The consumer knows the truth every time he opens his wallet, ever time a layoff is announced or a home is repossessed. The rosy spin from the White House cannot change that.

The voter on the other hand only knows two things, what he wants and belief in what he is told.

The key is who is doing the telling. 

 

 

by MRFred on 05/31/2008 10:13:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I'm so sick of this argument LF, that Hillary is "experienced". Not that I care about this, since dick cheney and don rumsfeld have about 100,000 times as much experience as Hillary Clinton, but wow, wouldn't you know? I prefer either Hillary or Barack over them or anyone they would like to succeed them. But the worst part of this (sorry) retarded refrain is that Hillary is not experienced. Life experience, maybe? Here's what She herself says qualifies her for president in the Oregon voter's guide:

Prior Governmental Experience: United States Senator, New York (2001-present); First Lady of the United States (1993-2001); Legal Services Corporation (Chair, 1978-1980; Member Board of Directors, 1977-1984); Impeachment Inquiry Staff, Judiciary Committee, United States House of Representatives (Impeachment Inquiry Staff, 1974)

Do you see that? She lists "First Lady" as part of her experience outside the senate, plus a couple of clerkships. First lady isn't an office. Is this a fucking joke? There were at least two candidates with better credentials than Hillary, but we didn't pick them. If I end up voting for Hillary someday, it won't be for her "experience".

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 02:19:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
isn't part of the experience argument that she is less likely to make campaign blunders?  How's that working out for ya? :::cough, RFK assasination, Serbian snipers, cough::::

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 02:41:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Hillary makes a gaffe (a real bona fide one): One news cycle=coverage of the gaffe, + 1 week of faux outrage about the coverage of the gaffe.

Barack makes a gaffe (a minor one that sounds worse taken out of context): Cover it for a full month. Use it as the justification to encourage voters to vote for the white candidate.

Bonus round: since idiotic shit doesn't issue from Obama very often, let's hold him responsible for every perceived "gaffe" by everyone around him, including people (past and present) who lived in his neighborhood--or as this shit-eating horsepile of a thread suggests--who preached at the pulpit in a church he attended. I would soooooo loooooooove to apply this standard to HRC. Fortunately for her, most of us can't do this and hold a straight face. 

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 03:01:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]

We don't have to resort to this nonsense.

We are winning. 

by ProfRich on 05/30/2008 03:18:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Being Dems I thought we were all on the same side? Nobody should be winning or losing per se.

No one wants to address the issue at hand. This hurts our chances at winning in November.

I didn't do it, Bobo didn't do it and he who shall not be named (don't worry Ken Hill & I still love ya) didn't do it.

Please explain why Obama has surrounded himself with these haters and bigots. Please tell me it was for political expediency. but that would make him like clinton wouldn't it?

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 05:19:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Everyone makes mistake including his lordship. Further RFK was not a mistake any more than the LBJ comment.

I used to think that only Pubs deliberately misrepresented what people say.

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 04:58:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Compared to Obama yes she has paid her dues and then some considering what she has been though. Why do you think the Pubs went after her so bad?

The story wasn't about her dues, it was about Obama's (pastoral problems) deftly avoided by both you & MF.

Do you really believe that Obama would be where he is today if he were treated by the press like Clinton and Edwards were?

Why is there such a double standard when it comes to Obama. for example: One of the great things about Obama is his judgement (like being against the war) when it was popular. Except obama was a state senator then from a district that was against the war from the start. He also left a proviso that he was basing his decision without the benefit of intel. How clintonesque is that?

Nobody wants to talk about judgement when it comes to Wright. Funny how important and instrumental he was to Obama a short time ago. Obama self admittedly went to Wright for guidance on some issues. Then suddenly Wright wasn't really "that" involved then he couldn't disavow him then he threw wright under the bus (how is that for triangulation!)

Another great story is how Obama will end the partisanship. Really? who here really believes that Pubs will work with Obama any more than any other Dem candidate. Isn't working with Pubs punsihable by death ie Clinton.

Remember that great race speech, what prompted that? What racist issue or vile race crime begat that sermon? Oh that's right his political career was at stake.

You guys see something that I don't, I'll grant you that. I see just another politician who is good at BS, period. What has he done exactly to show he will be a good president? The most important job he had in the senate (an oversight committee) he never showed. What were those "present" votes in the Illionois senate all about? If nothing more than a form of the same triangulation that you guys so much despise?

I warned you guys this was going to happen and its only going to get worse.



by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 04:44:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Thanks for outlining your complaints. I'll try to address them.

 "The story wasn't about her dues", no, but your post raised this issue, showing adherence to a ridiculous myth that you ascribe to (see my previous post).

 "Do you really believe that Obama would be where he is today", they are treating him that way, taking comments out of context and painting him as an "elite" as they have done to every front-runner of the democratic party since Hillary's intellectual forefather, Dan Quayle, brought it up. And yes I do believe he'd still be around.

 "Why is there such a double standard". This is just absurd. You're example shows how wrong your thinking is. It deserves quotation:

 "for example: One of the great things about Obama is his judgement (like being against the war) when it was popular."

It was popular to speak out against the war in '02? Which of KenTX's multiverse dimensions are you hailing from. Welcome to planet earth, 2008, the internets. It's hardly disingenuous to note, as a state senator, that you haven't seen the intel while opposing the war. Its called listing a major caveat, one that should lead everyone to interpret your views in light of available evidence. As it happens, Hillary, who had seen the intelligence, which we know in retrospect was cooked, drew the wrong conclusion. She drew the wrong conclusion again on Kyl-Lieberman. That's what judgement is about.

 "Nobody wants to talk about judgement when it comes to Wright." I talk about it all the time. Wright was his pastor. What does judgement have to do with it? I grew up in Church and attend semi-regularly. I don't agree with everything that goes on there, and would be appalled if people impugned my judgement for associating with religious people. The issue of race came up because it was obvious that a white candidate (see McCain, John) with similar associations gets a pass. Nobody wondered aloud at the time why Obama made a race speech. Nobody.

Finally  "What were those 'present' votes": this is a myth that has been debunked so many times I'm not going to bother. If someone wants to pick it up for me, be my guest. Yes Obama is a politician. Thanks for pointing that out as you do in nearly every exchange that you and I have. Do I need to remind you about whether I am duly skeptical of Obama's publicly stated motives. Can we get past it? And "What has he done to deserve to be president"?

He has expressed the right views about the direction our country should take, at the right time, and he consequently earned the most delegates in the Democratic Primary.

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 05:25:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]
nobody "deserves" to be president. If you believe Hillary "deserves" the presidency, you have proven rev. pfleger's point about her sense of entitlement.

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 05:29:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Please read it again, but I'll be more clear Obama was against the war when the war was popular nationwide (but not in his district) and he gave himself an out in case he was wrong.

As I have stated numerous times (and the facts support it) Hillary supported the authorization to use force, if necessary (in relation to WMD inspectors). If you wish to hold Hillary accountable for her votes fine. Only fair I will continue to hold his lack of oversight against him.

Obama joined Wright's church as an adult, why would a young aspiring politician join the largest church and most popular church in his district?

Judgement? do we really have to go there again. Res oh nevermind.

Close your eyes real tight, pretend the trains not coming. Don't believe me. Remember 2004 how our war hero was turned into the biggest pussy in the world complete with purple bandages? 2008 black is back, starring Barrack H. Obama. The black militant who surrounds himself with haters and bigots, who associates with the likes of Ayers and Farrakan. Can america trust a man who hates america? 15% believe he's muslim already and the truely bad shit hasn't even hit the fan yet.

Obama's friends are painting within the lines the Pubs have already drawn. You don't see the problem here?




by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 06:27:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

the other stuff, okay, I'll grant that your language was ambiguous about the popularity of obama's position and I misread your intention there. But if that's the case, your argument evaporates. Hillary's claim that her vote was not to authorize unilateral force is a ruse on its face. Of COOUUUURSE it was used the way it was intended. What matters is that everyone knew what power was legally given to the president in that vote, and that he would abuse it. She claims that she was shocked, shocked when he didn't adhere to the letter of the law. The Bush administration has sailed its agenda past complicit democrats time and again using the very same methods. Hillary Clinton is either stupid, or complicit. I personally don't think she's stupid.

She had a chance to show that she had learned her lesson. After all, if she knew then what she knows now (I would have bet money on the GIANTS!!!) she would have voted differently. So what happened on Kyl-Lieberman? Do you agree with the decision to designate a branch of Iran's armed services, the Quds, as a "terrorist" organisation? Do you get that she has, yet again, given the Bush administration a legislative stamp of approval on unilateral war. What didn't she know this time? This is a serious issue, and if you're at all open minded on the primary, you ought to give it more thought. She did this after the '06 election. She's lying to you. She's lying about a lot of things but this is one of the clearer examples.

and re: your comment about the train. Its coming anyway. I didn't think Kerry was up to the task. It was very frustrating for most democrats to watch our primary get decided in NH of all places last time around. It was unfair, and the result was catastrophic. I actually believe that 2004 was a more important election than this one. Bush did untold damage since '04. I still don't understand why if you think Obama is such a patsy, he was able knock off a Clinton. I think he did it with the gloves on. He has really pulled off a major upset, Hillary's attempts to paint herself as an underdog are just silly. Surely you must see that. 

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 06:50:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
revisionist history my friend. No one could have known what Bush was really up to. Talk about partisanship. I guess if Obama has a similar problem as president the Pubs should vote against him because "they know" he's full of shit because he's a Dem? I support any Dem in that vote at that time. What I don't support are pussies like Kerry who admit to a mistake under pressure from the far left, one that he did not make in the first place.


I cannot judge the vote on Iran without the intel. (how can anyone make good judgements without facts) Fact is Bush made Iran the chief threat by eliminating Saddam. War without diplomacy is foolish, diplomacy with no spine is useless. You cannot negotiate from a postion of weakness.


I have no doubts that she lies about things, I also have no doubts that Obama does the same thing.


I am glad we agree that our primary system is the biggest joke in the world. the only thing worse is Diebold.


I don't think that Obama is a patsy, he has shown the willingness to fight dirty. My concerns are simple. An unknown black candidate, whose baggage includes the likes of wright (who fills every racial stereotype and fear of white america), who's victory was achieved though the "liberal" base. None other than Huckabee pointed out how he would be winning the Pub contest, if it were counted like ours.


Most here seem content believing that the economy will be worse, gas prices higher and the war intolerable.


I believe that those dynamics will change. Painting McCain a racist like he did with clinton will gain him no more support and in fact will drive more whites away.


It might not have bothered you but that video made me flat out pissed and it is not because of what he said about Hillary.

I grew up poor white trash, I lived in a "project" and I had to gain employment in competition without the benefit of affirmative action. I never felt entitled about anything. Every race at some point were slaves, where does it end? To give credit to LBJ was racist? To mention Obama's (self admitted) cocaine use was racist?

Is it racist of me to mention his "present" votes, or his lack of oversight committee? and of course nobody but me cares about the other stuff right?

Maybe you guys are right maybe me and the other 49% of the Dem party should leave and form our own party.

Proportional voting and caucuses won't save him if that happens.

Sorry I am getting a little tired and quite a bit cranky. I am sick of being labeled a racist while Obama covorts with them on a daily basis.



by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 08:02:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't think you're racist, and I didn't call you a racist--I think you got a little off topic there. We'll pick this up some other time. Its friday and I got shit to do! I enjoyed the chat. Have a good weekend.

by hazmat on 05/30/2008 08:54:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I know you didn't call me a racist. father phlem as I like to call him really rattled my cage. Tired rage is the worst kind.

by LORD FOUL on 05/30/2008 11:04:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Minitrue

The contents of this article have been determined by Minitrue as doubleplusgood fact.

Questioning bobo is crimethink.

by Cogitor on 05/30/2008 07:40:11 PM EST


SOMEONE WITH SOME SENSE AROUND HERE!!!!!!!

:)

by bobo1 on 05/30/2008 08:00:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That Priest rocked! He was right on

Obama brushed it off

NEXT!

by Chinese Democracy on 05/31/2008 01:18:03 AM EST


That's our Bobo.  He can be in the middle of a crowd, and still somehow be all alone.

by OneHitKill on 05/31/2008 08:43:34 AM EST


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