Coffee-gate

Email Print posted by Nick86 05/04/2008 01:39:55 PM EST

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http://youtube.com/watch?v= 77Mn6Yv_QW0

So it seems, Mrs.Scranton Penn., Mrs. in touch with the "white working class" folks, cannot pour herself a cup of coffee. Assuming that the machine wasn't broken. I think that this little video really shows who is elite. I am not saying Obama would have been able to use the machine, he's an elite too. But, this goes at Clinton's whole message. Its more SYMBOLIC than anything else, no its not substantive, but symbolic.
< How's Al Gore Trading? | STFU about "elitism," PLEASE??? >

Poll

Are politicians elitist?
Yes 83%
No 16%

Votes: 6
Results | Other Polls
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Coffee-gate | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden)
Oh the ignominy (none / 0)
I can't see much of what's going on. Looks like the machine's broken. But it would be just like that elitist Clinton to use a broken machine. (She should have guessed something was up by that nutty music.)

by ashbul on 05/04/2008 02:06:26 PM EST

Oy..enough with the "elite" already (none / 0)

Not all politicians are elite, specifically politicians that lost their election bid or re-election are not elite. Clinton and Obama have risen to the top of the Democratic party to vie for the nomination...by definition they are the elite of the party.

I think Clinton is simply nuncoordinated..perhaps Bill gets all her coffee? 

 

 

 

 

by MRFred on 05/04/2008 07:59:31 PM EST

Hmm... (none / 0)
So if Bush lost the eleciton he wouldn't be an elite? Interesting concept, I think you want to qualify your statement.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 05/04/2008 09:01:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sure (none / 0)
in reference to Bush, other than his family name and wealth...I dont think so, otherwise it would depend on the context and how your using the word other than in the pejorative.Paraphrasing : 
Elitism is the belief or attitude that  individuals who are considered members of the elite whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.

 No govern...no "elitism". In Georges case looking at elite attributes 

  1. Rigorous study of, or great accomplishment within, a particular field of study NO
  2. A long track record of competence in a demanding field NO
  3. An extensive history of dedication and effort in service to a specific discipline (e.g., medicine or martial arts) NO
  4. A high degree of accomplishment, training or wisdom within a given field. NO

 Im not sure failures in 1-4 can be a member of an elite...other than elite failures.(?) 

 

by MRFred on 05/04/2008 11:47:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Political Elitist Rankings: Scale 1-10 (none / 0)
(Please help me with the rankings.)

Considerations:
What college did he attend?
How wealthy was he at birth?
How smart did he think he was?
How many years did he want to be president?

John Kerry: 10.1 (off the scale snob)
FDR: 10
Adlai Stevenson: 10
George HW Bush: 10
Al Gore: 10
JFK: 10
Bill Clinton: 8
Barack Obama: 8
Walter Mondale: 7
Jimmy Carter: 7
George W Bush: 7
Goldwater: 4
Nixon: 3
LBJ: 2
John McCain: 2
Ronald Reagan: 1
Harry Truman: 0
Dwight Eisenhower: -0.1 (off the scale)

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 12:26:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The big flaw and the little ones (none / 0)

The big flaw is you don't seem to understand what the word elitist means.  Elitist means belief that the elites are better than other people.

This scale is a simple tool to measure how elite someone is, it has no bearing on whether or not they are elitist.  That can pretty much be summed up with Democrats + TR and Ike- mid to low.  All other Republicans- very high.

As for these rankings based on your four criteria.

Kerry wasn't rich enough at birth to max out the scale.

FDR did not think he was all that smart and therefore has to come down from ten.

I don't think Gore was rich enough at birth to be that high.

Obama maxes out college and smart I guess.  But is from humble origins and I don't believe for a second he thought he could be president before 2004.  So I would have to say he can't be higher than 6.  And it seems to me calling Bush and Obama equally elite because they attended the same school is kind of insanse.  Obama earned his way in against all odds wheras Bush's dady wrote a check (true of FDR too).  How does that earn them equal "elite" points?  Flaw in the system 

Clinton was as poor as any president ever at birth so it seems his MAX would be 7.5 and that would be giving max points to Arkansas (ARKANSAS!!!!!) as a university.  So I think its hard to get above 5.5 for him.

I am having a very hard time seeing where Shrub lost two points?  Cause he knows hes stupid, I guess.

Nixon starts a five since he began running for president in 1952!!!!! and thought he was smarter than everyone.  Similar to Clinton on these four factors.

Hard to see McCain as a two unless you are really shitting on the Naval Academy.  He was born at lest prosperous, has wanted to be president since Corrupt Bargain of 1824 and I give the Academy at least a point.  He does seem to realize he's stupid though.  So I put him at 6, maybe 7.

Reagan was an idiot and seemed to know it, went to shitville state and was middle class at birth but he had wanted to be president for a long time so I say 3 minimum there.

Right on Truman.

Ike gets points for West Point but not for anything else so he gets a 1 or 2 just cause I respect the military more than you. 

by ProfRich on 05/05/2008 12:43:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
good choice, bad choice (none / 0)
Here’s a suggestion on how to improve the nomination process. Draft a candidate who has never spent much time thinking about being President.

The kid in this photo has been scheming for the job his entire life. He is not a good choice.
dipshit

Likewise, this kid had overwhelming drive and ambition, but he wasn’t able to accomplish a damn thing during eight years in office.
blue dress

This guy wanted the job so badly, he was willing to do anything to get it.
LBJ

At 55 years of age, and his only lifelong ambition was to serve his country.
ike

This middle-aged man is having a career crisis. At this point, he never dreamed that one day, historians would consider him one of the greatest presidents in American history.
ronnie

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 12:55:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Spin on (none / 0)

historians would consider him one of the greatest presidents in American history.

is simply a lie. Hummmm Regan sent out feelers in 1972, ran for the nomination in 1976 and again in 1980. So don't bore us with the "accidental" president bullshit. He wanted it and openly discussed it.

Name some historians , REAL historians mind you not  conservative hacks with an agenda, that call Reagan one greatest presidents in American history.

by MRFred on 05/05/2008 01:31:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Your bias (none / 0)
Notice that you tried to move all Republicans up and all Democrats down.

FDR was probably the most arrogant and elitist of all presidents. Who else ran four times?

You can't call West Point elitist. It's a service academy.

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 12:59:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Vocab problem (none / 0)

None of this has anything to do with elitism which is a belief system that could be embraced by anyone from George Bush to Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.  The ranking you seem to be getting (poorly) at is elite.

West Point is elite.  Far more elite than the Razorbacks.  In that it is much more diifficult to get into West Point than Arkansas (you need a recomendation from a Senator or something to get into West Point.  That is elite!)

FDR was elite certainly.  As elite as any.  He was an elitist pretty openly until almost dying from polio.  The man who served in the White House had more empathy with the poor and downtrodden as any president ever has.  It is one of the great stories in American history that a man who came from where FDR did was laid low by disease and, in his own way, was reborn as one of the common folk (in his heart and mind anyway).  Go and learn how the poor and minorities felt about FDR.  See if those folks thought he was elitist.  Or you could just take Rush's opinion and call that fact. 

As for who ran four times?  Dozens of people.  Ronald Reagan for one.  Ron Paul has four runs at least.  William Jennings Bryan.  U.S. Grant.  Eugene V. Debbs.  Van Buren I believe. Henry Clay.  Tons of guys have.

Who has received four major party nominations? Only FDR.  Who has won four times?  Only FDR.  (Although I am pretty sure Cleveland actually won three times.)

Its not FDR's fault he was so much better at politics than guys like Reagan. 

by ProfRich on 05/05/2008 01:50:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Prosperous? (none / 0)
He grew up on a carrier deck with his father and his grandfather.
mccain

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 01:04:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
No he didnt.... (none / 0)

 He grew up on a carrier deck with his father and his grandfather.

McCain received his appointment to the Naval Academy (His father was the aide to the CNO) due to his family name graduated 894th out of 899. He was " selected " for aviation training due to his family. The bottom graduates form the bottom school do not get the top assignments...namely flight school.  His father was a Submariner by the way

by MRFred on 05/05/2008 01:49:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You mean (none / 0)

Admiral McCain and Admiral McCain right?

Yeah I am sure they were barely scraping by.  And clearly that had nothing to do with McCain who is admittedly stupid and demonstrably a poor student getting into the Naval Academy where he finished in the bottom of his class, right?

That's comparable to Bill's birth circumstances.  And Barak's.  Sure.

McCain has talked openly about getting special treatment and getting away with murder because who his dad and grandad were.  Why would he lie?

Oh, right.  Its just what he does. 

by ProfRich on 05/05/2008 01:53:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
So McCain is a dumb guy? (none / 0)
As I recall, Ike graduated way back in the pack at West Point. Nobody ever called him dumb. Well, I take that back. I'd be willing to bet that Democrats labeled him stupid in 1952 and 1956. They always do that in every presidential election, and then they are open-mouthed baffled when they lose every four years.

While we're on the subject, I pray that Democrats label John McCain a mental retard, and Barack Obama a supreme genius. That's a great electoral strategy, and it will certainly play well in OH, PA, WV, NV, and other key battleground states.

God Bless! Go Forward!

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 02:04:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is McCain a Dem? (none / 0)

I said McCain has admitted to not knowing about much of anything except foriegn policy (which he is pretty much always wrong about.)

I never said I labeled him that way.

And I can't change his ranking at the Naval Academy.

Ike was 61 of 164.

McCain was 894 out of 899.  Pretty much the same thing, huh, Ken?

DO you ever feel like a fraud just making shit up, Ken? 

by ProfRich on 05/05/2008 02:39:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
want some proof? (none / 0)
Would you like for me to prove that Democrats impugned the intelligence of Eisenhower, Reagan, Ford, Bush, Goldwater, etc. Dems do the same thing every election, and when they're labled elitist in retaliation, they go nuts. It is to our advantage to allow Dems to walk into the "Dumb McCain" and "Elitist Hussein" trap in 2008.

by KenTX on 05/06/2008 02:32:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Dumb Pubs (none / 0)

Ike often and openly admitted to being a political babe in the woods.  The rest are just stupid.  Maybe it is not a good electoral strategy but its true.

Might have something to do with them being such shitty presidents.  (not Ike)

On an unrelated note, it just occured to me McCarthy and Dole are the only men nominated by the GOP since 1952 that were never president.   Interesting.  From 1932 to now the Dems have Goldwater, Humphrey, Dukakis. Gore and Kerry.  Don't know what that means, but interesting. 

by ProfRich on 05/06/2008 10:04:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Rich, are you OK? (none / 0)
You're not having a Tim Johnson moment are you? McGovern? Stevenson? Goldwater? Tail Gunner Joe?

by KenTX on 05/06/2008 10:44:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Whops (none / 0)

Revise that list.

GOP nominee never to be Pres since 1952: Goldwater, Dole

Dem nominees never to be Pres since 1932: Stevenson, Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry

My mistake.  6 of 8 of the last GOP men nomiinated have been Prez.

6 of 13 of the last Dems.

Since 1932 Dems are 10-9 in Prez elections (although one was stolen so it should be 11-8)

GOP is 9-5 (should be 8-6) since 1952. 

 

by ProfRich on 05/06/2008 11:23:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Reagan (none / 0)
He was ten years older than Obama when he was still doing Death Valley Days.
reagan
He was elected Governor of California in 1968, and president 12 years later. That's not a long time to think about being president.

Think about Barack Obama in the first grade.

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 01:13:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
TX (none / 0)

You know that Reagan was involved in politics longer than that. Here he is as a democrat campaigning for Truman in 1948, twenty years before he became governor in 1968:

Ronald Reagan the liberal democrat

Was he repapering the oval office in his mind when he gave this endorsement? I don't know if I'd go that far, but who knows what goes through the mind of lead male actors in Hollywood...

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 01:37:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Klarification (none / 0)

Ronnie was elected Governor of California in 1966 so make it 14 years to Presidency.  He ran for president in 1968.  He was active on the Goldwater campaign in 1964.  Research your idols.

As for Barak, you said number of years wanting to be president.  Not age.  So what Ronnie was doing at Barak's age is totally irelevant.

But what we can all agree on is this.  Ronnie: scheming to be president-14 to 16 years.  Obama - 4.  Lower Barak and raise Ronnie if you have any integrity which we all know you don't. 

by ProfRich on 05/05/2008 01:59:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Mum's the word for now. (none / 0)
Nominate Obama first.

Then we'll bring out the hardware.

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 02:07:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Elitism. (none / 0)
Elite has two definitions, one academic, I would argue Platonic. The other, pejorative. Within a democratic context, a "elite" undermines the very notion of democracy because the people not an elite should rule. As we all know, substantive democracy has never existed. You cannot have democracy in its purest form with an economic system that is so unequal such as capitalism, even Alexis DeToqueville recognized this.

Using the United States as an example, I think that elite must be seen with skepticism. But that skepticism has to be weighed by how we define elitism, do we define it in terms of wealth or in terms of education? If being highly educated is elite, then that is a good thing, because at least who is being elected is intellectually capable. If it is monetary, then within the context of American democracy it is a NEGATIVE. Also, there is a elite mentality, we must recognize that those who govern do not think or act the way we do. They do live by different mores, and values. How do I know? I've spoken to people who are worth hundreds of millions, and believe me they are not you and me.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 05/05/2008 01:33:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]
What exactly are you "ranking" ? (none / 0)

If they are

  • "elitists" in the pejorative sense, who are politicians,
  •  members of society's elite based on achievement, wealth, and/or birth, who are politicians


Dwight Eisenhower: -0.1 (off the scale?) Graduate of West Point, Supreme Allied Commander who planned and executed the defeat of NAZI Germany, 5 Star General and recipient of the highest national and international honors? Ike is not a member of the elite company of military men who excelled at his craft? Really?

John McCain...Naval Academy graduate Aviator and member of a long linage of successful military men? Thats an elite unto itself... 

Everyone on that list excelled at some skill , had some special ability that qualifies them as the  "elite" in their own right.

No matter, whats the point? I suspect know that you are simply trying to skew this to show that whatever group your hating on this week are "elitists"

I didnt think you were a member of the trophies for everybody crowd. 

by MRFred on 05/05/2008 01:19:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Great Clip (none / 0)
If she wins the nomination, you'll see that one again. I promise.

If your gonna stick around after the beat down you took in the other thread, we need to teach you how to link clips.

1. Highlight the word "link", or some other phrase.
2. Clink on the little chain link icon on the task bar.
3. Paste the URL into the box and click insert.

link

by KenTX on 05/04/2008 08:52:51 PM EST

KenTX (none / 0)
Knock it off!  Putting a person down or talking down to a person is just plain rude.  Disagreeing with a viewpoint does not justify the use of bad manners.

by 1xx3xy on 05/06/2008 12:46:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Coffee-gate | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden)
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