Obama-Clinton ticket?

Email Print posted by hazmat 05/05/2008 12:18:49 AM EST

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Wait, hold your fire people. I know, you're sooo tired of this steeming pile of ABC-bait. Smells like a bag of poop to me too. But take another peep.

Yes I know the arguments against it--hell I invented most of'em. I'm only posting this because a major Obama conservative supporter, Andrew Sullivan, wrote an opinion piece walking through the logic of this potential compromise. The meat of his argument in favor:

"And yet I can also see that the new politics Obama represents has provoked a ferocious backlash from the established political class; and his weakness (as well as his appeal) as a candidate is his reluctance to engage in the kind of street-fighting that politics can sometimes — and must sometimes — become. By picking Clinton as a vice-president, he would be pulling a classic American manoeuvre — getting a surrogate to do the dirty pugilism of the campaign, while using his own extraordinary skills to provide a unifying and uplifting overall theme."

Read the full text, especially if you back Obama.

I'm still skeptical for a variety of reasons, but he has a point, in way. There's potential upside whether she accepts or refuses. Having a protracted fight in August is all downside, for everybody.

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Obama-Clinton ticket? | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
No! (none / 0)
Once and for all, NO!

Hillary is burning her bridges on a daily basis. There is no valid reason to offer her a spot on the ticket and there are many, many attractive choices for the second spot among people who haven't trashed him at every turn. Tell you what...after the election, he can reward her with an ambassadorship...to Belarus...

Andrew Sullivan seems to be a fairly smart, but how smart can you be to stick around and support a party who thinks you're very existence is an "abomonation to gawd?"

by MedfordTim on 05/05/2008 12:33:57 AM EST


Obama/Biden (none / 0)
if Obama doesn't choose Biden, then it is obvious that the DNC has no idea how to play politics.

by FusEldar on 05/05/2008 12:41:03 AM EST


[ Parent ]
I like Biden (none / 0)
but why is that such an obvious choice?

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 12:51:07 AM EST


[ Parent ]
he's been open (none / 0)
(pun intended) about the fact that he does not currently support or defend the party. He wrote a book about how Christianists and special interests have colluded to derail the conservative agenda (which I'll admit here that I have not read). I'm also in the "no, no, and hell no, and what part of NO didn't you understand" camp. I dunno, I hope you can give his article a read and tell me what you think, because he is historically one of the biggest ridiculers of the idea of a unity ticket. He isn't a democrat, and has no compunctions professing his outright dislike for the Clintons. So the article was really surprising to me. I found some of his arguments compelling. Do you have any specific rebuttals?

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 12:48:16 AM EST


[ Parent ]
for example (none / 0)

I might take the tasmanian devil argument. Everything Hillary touches turns to shit, including healthcare. So by taking her on, he'll probably be obliged to give her healthcare, which she'll fail at, again, in spectacular fashion. Or it will be a bonanza for bigPharma because she's already sold out (we don't know). But fair is fair. What do we know about Obama?

It's also like taking a brontosaurus as your political partner. Its big, slow, and everyone can see it. Its impossible to ignore. And the conservatives just can't wait to sink their teeth in old-school style.

But see? wouldn't that be awesome? They'd go after Hillary because they can't help it. They'd sink countless precious resources on her. And it would be wasted, because she's the Tonya Harding of politics. She'll keep showing up in the news as a female boxer, or for running some failed racket somewhere. She's not the energizer bunny of politics--she's the Sanjaya of politics. We know we're going to be subjected to Drudge no matter who gets elected, so why not throw the dobie a steak? She can be a distraction with her freakshow on the side, and leave Obama to the serious business of restoring American prestige and influence abroad, and the economy at home.

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 01:06:51 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Clarity, please. (none / 0)
"What do we know about Obama?"

What do you WANT to know? What reassurance would do the trick for you? Does he need another ten years of "seasoning" before he'll be "ready?" What does he need to say for you to be satisfied?

No confrontation here, I really want to know what it is you're looking for.

by MedfordTim on 05/05/2008 02:06:17 AM EST


[ Parent ]
We don't know (none / 0)
Honestly. I'm not looking for anything, because there isn't anything he can produce at this point to prove that he won't sell out in the future. The record isn't that long. Look I think he's got a lot of potential, and he has shown flashes of brilliance in politics, strategy, and rhetorical persuasiveness. He understands what leadership is. You ask me what reassurance would "do the trick" for me, but there's none to be given. I've been volunteering for the guy. I can only hope that Obama will live up to his promise.

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 03:16:47 AM EST


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impressive (none / 0)
This hazmat is pretty damn smart.

by KenTX on 05/05/2008 02:09:38 AM EST


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Thanks again (none / 0)
That's the first insult that actually hurts, considering the source.

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 03:25:42 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Just doesn't work (none / 0)
Here's the thing...the only possible thing Clinton can bring to an Obama ticket is some assuasion of her "bitter" supporters who won't vote for Obama.  They don't compliment each other well (Wesley Clark, with his military and foreign policy credentials, would be a good compliment to Obama, whereas Hillary doesn't really bring anything that Obama doesn't have already).

And, Clinton has sooooo many people disliking her...left, right, and center.  It's kind of unfair (I didn't have the visceral negative reaction to her until the "3:00 AM" ads started that so many people already had towards her), but it's a fact.  She being on the ticket could would bring those negatives along, and they would be hard to dispel before the general election.  She certainly hasn't helped her "likeability" during this campaign.

by twalters0 on 05/05/2008 12:07:11 PM EST


If the 3:00 AM ads were your first clue (none / 0)

hmm, well that wasn't my first clue about her character, but like you I'm a recent convert to the view that she's toxic. Just three months ago I was privately wishing Bill Clinton could run again because he's so much better at politics than she is. I just thought she was the same but not a good politician. There's some truth in that, but there's more than just the public face and the grating voice.

To give you an example, I just saw the first ad on tv run in Oregon by the clinton campaign, promising to "Force Oil Companies to Invest in Clean Energy". That's verbatim.

Its a hideous goal. As a progressive democrat, this stated policy objective is an affront to everything I believe in. I don't think oil companies should be told where to invest their money. How ridiculous! Does she really believe that?

That's just her approach. She thinks being strong means shoving her agenda down other people's throats. This whole primary election is a microcosm of that.

I don't want her in the white house, and I fear that having her nearby would be a drain on an Obama presidency. She would spend a lot of time trying to "outmaneuver" him and undermine various policies, for the sake of political leverage and petty revenge. Do I know that for sure? No, its just the pattern that she has yet to break.

But on the other hand, you still have to ask yourself, would you rather have a democrat in the WH next year or not? Because all signs point to her going nuclear if she doesn't get her way. And my point about her providing the republicans with a distraction might be salient, while Obama runs the squeeky-clean campaign he desires. After all, nobody casts their vote for Vice President. 

by hazmat on 05/05/2008 04:08:50 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Obama-Clinton ticket? | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
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