Illegal Inmigration and Health care, if Spain can do it why not the US

Email Print posted by JaimeH 06/10/2008 06:27:10 AM EST

Google Technorati del.icio.us digg reddit
Hi Everybody,

I've just seen an atricle in the New York Times that describes the experience of Inmigration in Spain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008 /06/10/world/europe/10migra te.html?scp=3&sq=spain& amp;st=nyt

Hi Everybody,

I've just seen an atrticle in the New York Times that describes the experience of Inmigration in Spain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008 /06/10/world/europe/10migra te.html?scp=3&sq=spain& amp;st=nyt

I couldn't help thinking why the most advanced and powerful country in the world (after all Spain is only the eighth) cannot give free universal to its citizens. If a country like Spain can give free health care even to Illegal Immigrants. Is it policy issue, lack of political will or what.

I'm proud to live in a country that that see immigration as an asset not a problem. What would public opinion say about a candidate who proposes free health care even for illegal inmigrants.  Would that be possible?

B Regards
JaimeH

Pres. Zapatero & Sen. Edwards
< Flashback to 2000 | Good News Out of Iraq?? >
 Display:
Illegal Inmigration and Health care, if Spain can do it why not the US | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
Health care for foreigners (none / 0)

The also give free health care to foreign visitors, similar to other EU countries.

They value people who work, and make it possible to do so legally. In the US where business runs the government, businesses would rather have cheap or free labor than do the right thing and pay the people who work for them, and make it legal.

I'm going back to Spain on Thursday. With the economic problems worldwide, I expect to see that their immigration has increased, but policies won't change much for the worse, especially with Zapatero instead of Aznar. 

Do you really think that the US is the most advanced and powerful in the world?  Powerful, yes, but far from advanced in many categories. Unfortunately we have a long way to go to dig ourselves out of the Republican quicksand and corporate manipulation that masquerades as US national policies. 

by zenie on 06/10/2008 08:45:55 AM EST

No alternative (none / 0)
There is a difference in ideology, Europeans/Canadians treat people-at least medically-as human beings, Americans treat them as commodities. If you can't afford to pay your way in the US, then whether you are a citizen or not, you aren't getting healthcare. The whole American system is based on profit, which to me is insane considering we are talking about people's lives. The problem in the US is really a LACK of any socialism at all, the reason Canada has healthcare is because we have a socialist party, the NDP. Europe has healthcare as it does, and the welfare state it does because of its social democratic parties, and in the case do the UK an actual socialist government under Labour. When you have merely two parties that represent merely two different business interests, you will not get adequate legislation to treat humans as humans. As long as American's do not push the Democratic party to the left, to embrace human rights over profits nothing will change, hopefully a second New Deal can be created, until then you will have to suffer.

P.S. I have a question for you Americans, if I were to have no insurance coverage and got sick does that mean I really have absolutely no support, or just really shitty government hospitals and support?

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/10/2008 01:32:11 PM EST

Canadian metropolis vs. Cowtown USA (none / 0)
The whole American system is based on profit, which to me is insane considering we are talking about people's lives. The problem in the US is really a LACK of any socialism at all, the reason Canada has healthcare is because we have a socialist party, the NDP.

From the Calgary Herald:

A rare set of identical quadruplets, born this week to a Calgary woman at a Montana hospital, are in good health and two of them were strong enough to be transported back here Thursday.

The naturally conceived baby girls -- Autumn, Brooke, Calissa and Dahlia -- were delivered by caesarean section Sunday in Great Falls, their weights ranging between two pounds, six ounces and two pounds, 15 ounces.

Their mother, Calgarian Karen Jepp, was transferred to Benefis Hospital in Montana last week when she began showing signs of going into labour, and no Canadian hospital had enough neonatal intensive-care beds for all four babies.

What does it say about the medical system in Canada when the big city of Calgary lacks the available medical facilities found in the little cowtown of Great Falls, Montana?

by Twba on 06/11/2008 05:57:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The real question. (none / 0)
The real questión is to ask how much did the Canadian mother have to pay ?  Nothing!

What would have happend if the the mother was from Montana but couldn't afford health insurance ?

JaimeH

 

by JaimeH on 06/11/2008 08:07:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The real answer (none / 0)
What would have happend if the the mother was from Montana but couldn't afford health insurance?

It may be shocking to a European, but the Montanan would have received the same excellent care that the Canadian received at the Montana hospital but was unable to get at a Canadian hospital. Pregnant women in Montana who are unable to afford private insurance qualify for Medicaid.

The real question is to ask how much did the Canadian mother have to pay?  Nothing!

Canadians pay for their medical care. Funding for health and wellness in Alberta has increased by $1.1 billion to $13.2 billion in 2008-09. That's more than one-third of all government spending at $36 million a day. Of every dollar in health funding, 6 cents come from premiums, 12 cents come from federal transfer payments, 79 cents come from Alberta's general revenues, and 3 cents come from lottery and other revenues.

All Albertans are responsible to pay premiums unless they qualify for premium assistance, government-sponsored income support programs, or are senior citizens.

Employers and benefit administrators who register and pay premiums on behalf of their employees will continue to do so.

Alberta Health and Wellness will continue to pursue collections from those who fail to pay premiums.

Contributors to Alberta Blue Cross or other supplementary insurance plans that provide prescription drug, dental, and other extended coverage, will still pay those premiums, as they have not been eliminated.

New Albertans must register for the Alberta Health Care Insurance Plan within three months of their arrival.

What are Canadians getting for their money if they are forced to send their most difficult cases across the border to American hospitals?

by Twba on 06/11/2008 09:31:34 AM EST

[ Parent ]
No, the real answer is (none / 0)

Im sure there are pictures of old turn of the century hospital wards in the thread somewhere and the usual lies, but no matter, the fact is that the US has a higher need for neonatal care facilities due to the birth rate being higher by 50% in the US ( 10 vs 15 per 1000 population )tha Canada.

In fact the United States has more neonatologists and neonatal intensive care beds per person than Canada Australia, and the United Kingdom among others.

So, what Canadians are getting for their money is superior prenatal care which obviates the need for a more neonatal care units. This is "in part because they ( the developed nations ranked above the US ) offer free health services for pregnant women and babies, while the United States suffers from disparities in access to health care" according to the Save the Children Foundation.

That plus the abysmal performance of the U.S. health care system in infant mortality in the devolped world; "an estimated 2 million babies die within their first 24 hours each year worldwide, the United States has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world" adds to the requirement fro neonatal services. Only Latvia is worse.

Of course, as you said Medicade does cover...excuse me used to cover care for many disdvantaged pregnant women. After Bush's 36 billion dollar Medicare / Medicaid ( 18 weeks in Iraq ) reduction in 2007, and anther  17.4 billion ( 8 weeks in Iraq)  Medicaid added for FY 2009 to pregancy care and other programs ,states are forced to follow suit;

State lawmakers are planning Medicaid budget cuts that would eliminate health care coverage for tens of thousands of Florida's neediest citizens - the catastrophically ill and low-income pregnant women.

Now...here is where the old picture would be appropraite with the title "Republican Supports Choice" meaning "We rich Republicans chose to allow our fellow citizens to die."

by MRFred on 06/11/2008 12:17:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Uh huh (none / 0)
So, what Canadians are getting for their money is superior prenatal care which obviates the need for a more neonatal care units.

Calgary is a city of about a million; Edmonton has a population of about one million; Great Falls is a city of 60,000. The hospital in Great Falls could handle what no hospital in Alberta could: one woman pregnant with quadruplets. Perhaps the Canadians need a few more neonatal beds, despite what you think.

by Twba on 06/11/2008 12:48:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Outsourcing (none / 0)

 Perhaps the Canadians need a few more neonatal beds, despite what you think.

First of all, its not what I think but nice try. First, preterm and post-term birth rates are substantially higher in the United States than in Canada (and other industrialized<sup> </sup>countries). Plus this was a rare occurance for these guys, "Calgary Health Region doctors said the chances of naturally conceived quadruplets are about one in 13 million," The last set of identical quads in Calgary were born in 1982.

Besides,what could be more capitalistic, than outsourcing? Why spend millions on building staffing, operating and maintaining additional, rarely used neonatal care units in Canada ,  when you can outsource to the USA at a fration of the cost?

"she is fifth Alberta woman to be transferred south of the border this year because of neonatal shortages in Calgary."

Five women sent to the US out of a population of a million. Not overwhelming demand...

"The CHR, meanwhile, will pick up the tab for transferring Jepp to Montana."

However, because of the rise in demand due to Albertas population boom ( oils sands, oil...) the Alberta CHR is planning an expansion of neonatal units...the problem is finding neonatal nurses for staffing.

"CHR says the problem stems from a shortage of specially-trained nurses. The health authority is currently working to train more staff for the neonatal unit and, by early next year, CHR hopes to increase the number of beds from 16 to 21."

Makes you wonder why so many neonatal beds are sitting around empty in the US....

by MRFred on 06/11/2008 01:43:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The real question (none / 0)
First of all, its not what I think but nice try.

So, are you just exercising your cut and paste skills with material you do not agree with?

by Twba on 06/11/2008 02:42:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Easy (none / 0)
Makes you wonder why so many neonatal beds are sitting around empty in the US....

For the same reason that competent management of an electric utility builds and maintains enough excess capacity to meet peak demand without experiencing brownouts.

by Twba on 06/12/2008 09:00:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Two Tier Health Care (none / 0)
“What would public opinion say about a candidate who proposes free health care even for illegal immigrants.”
America already provides free health care to illegal aliens. Not only do we give free health care to illegal aliens who are having babies in America, but we give instant citizenship status to these “anchor babies”.

“P.S. I have a question for you Americans, if I were to have no insurance coverage and got sick does that mean I really have absolutely no support, or just really shitty government hospitals and support?”

America offers a “Two Tier” health care system. It means that health care recipients like Ted Kennedy, who have good insurance, can travel to Duke University and receive the best medical treatment in the world. Similarly, rich people from Spain and Canada can fly into Raleigh Durham airport, and pay for the privilege of receiving the best health care in the world.
The Canadian elite have been traveling to America for health care for quite some time. The reason is because the Canadian health care system is totally screwed up.

Wealthy people in America enjoy superb health care resources.

By contrast, illegal immigrants, and U.S. citizens who don’t want to acquire health insurance, receive free health care that is reminiscent of pre-1980s medicine. No CAT scans, no MRIs, no electrocardiograms, no miracle treatments from modern technology. They receive health care that looks a lot like Canada and Spain.
got cots?

by KenTX on 06/11/2008 09:14:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Nice Try KenTX! (none / 0)

by JaimeH on 06/11/2008 09:20:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Being Canadian and all... (none / 0)
Calgary is in Alberta, the most conservative/Republican province in the country. They ALWAYS overstate the bad state of healthcare because they want to privatize it, so do not put much credence into anything that comes out of Alberta bc most Canadians don't. Having gone to the hospital I never had to wait more than one hour to get medical attention, and was for non-serious procedures and check ups. In addition, yes it is free! Do we pay taxes for healthcare, yes, but we aren't paying taxes for a useless war in Iraq so I guess we win. Also Americans per capita spend over $5000 on healthcare and Canadians $3000. So who is really being screwed here?

Insurance premiums etc. is privatized taxation, just because it doesn't say "Federal Government" worse it says "Blue Cross" or whatever you guys have. So you are paying into a profit-generating system, whose major purpose is not to provide healthcare but profit for their shareholders and themselves. In order to make profit they have to make sure many Americans do not get access to health insurance. So the reason why you Americans do not have to wait as long,etc. is because you exclude 40+ million people from healthcare, if we excluded the  5 million sickest people in Canada from going to the hospital...I'd say we'd have a pretty fucking good system! Oh but we have a conscience, stupid human Canadians/Europeans/Develop ing world countries.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/12/2008 12:59:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Fact checking (none / 0)
Insurance premiums etc. is privatized taxation, just because it doesn't say "Federal Government" worse it says "Blue Cross" or whatever you guys have. So you are paying into a profit-generating system, whose major purpose is not to provide healthcare but profit for their shareholders and themselves. In order to make profit they have to make sure many Americans do not get access to health insurance.

Alright, Nick. Let's acquaint ourselves with Blue Cross.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arizona is a local, independent and not-for-profit health insurance company headquartered in Phoenix.

Once again, Nick, you do not know what you're talking about.

by Twba on 06/12/2008 02:48:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Err... (none / 0)

Read what I wrote, I admitted my ignorance:

" "Blue Cross" or whatever you guys have."

 "or whatever you guys have" means, I don't know the names of the corporations, and Blue Cross may not actually be that corporation. So, I admitted my ignorance and you showed yours.

 Now, instead of dealing with the irrelevant issues that is only an issue to someone lacking an argument, what did I say was actually wrong?

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/12/2008 04:06:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Errrrrrrrrrrrrr (none / 0)
...what did I say was actually wrong?

You yammered about the evils of profit when in fact Blue Cross of Arizona is a non-profit insurance provider. Obviously, there must be a lot more to the high cost of health care in the United States than for-profit insurance companies.

...I admitted my ignorance...

The problem with your ignorance is that you drastically underestimate the breadth and depth of it.

by Twba on 06/13/2008 02:05:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Polish... (none / 0)

 

are you? Is English your second language? Seems so, if its not, it shows yet another failure to seep out of the American education system. Look pretending to understand English is cute and all, but unless you actually do, it starts looking pretty sad.

" You yammered about the evils of profit when in fact Blue Cross of Arizona is a non-profit insurance provider."

 Never said otherwise, if you could read English you would know that.

 "The problem with your ignorance is that you drastically underestimate the breadth and depth of it."

 

You can deride me all you want with your little internet-balls, but unless you can actually show where I was wrong then I do not see where you get off?  Stop being a pretentious little boy, and step it up, I am more than ready for ya!

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/13/2008 02:48:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Et tu? (none / 0)
Is English your second language?

Careful, Nick. Someone might start noticing the poor quality of your writing and wonder if English is your first language.

...I am more than ready for ya!

Sure you are.

by Twba on 06/13/2008 04:19:54 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You (none / 0)
are all talk...go back to Warsaw.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/13/2008 12:30:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I would hate to be Nick at this point. (none / 0)
"You can deride me all you want with your little internet-balls, but unless you can actually show where I was wrong then I do not see where you get off?  Stop being a pretentious little boy, and step it up, I am more than ready for ya!"

You've done it now. Have you not figured out that Dub is intellectually superior to you in every subject?


by KenTX on 06/13/2008 06:34:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Illegal Inmigration and Health care, if Spain can do it why not the US | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
 Display: