Representative Pete DeFazio (D-OR)
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The Democratic congressman attempts to defend his party on oil prices and Iraq War capitulation, in this interview with Cenk Uygur.
If you like this story, digg it!
The Democratic congressman attempts to defend his party on oil prices and Iraq War capitulation, in this interview with Cenk Uygur.
Cenk Uygur: Alright, Congressman DeFazio, I want to talk also about the Iraq War Funding because that went through the House today.
Pete DeFazio: No, we haven't voted on it yet.
Cenk Uygur: Oh, okay. The papers have said that you guys are going to buckle on it. But it hasn't happened yet...
Pete DeFazio: Well, you know, I won't be voting for the war funding. They haven't even come up with the rule yet. I don't know, as in we are in recess, which is sort of like the parliamentary black hole right now while they are trying to figure out how to bring the bill up. But I expect in all probability, you are going to see the war funding go through with the majority of the Republican votes. I don't know yet. I don't even know the conditions of which it's going to come out.
Cenk Uygur: Congressman DeFazio, I know you're going to vote against it, and I know you're here trying to publicize the right things. But I got to ask you about the Caucus. Here you guys are losing to the most unpopular President of all time. The Republicans are running for the hills. They got slaughtered in 2006, they're going to get slaughtered even worse in 2008. How can they possibly be winning legislative battles on an issue as important as Iraq?
Pete DeFazio: Well remember, we did manage, last year in May, to put a time line into war funding. The President vetoed it, and that requires a two thirds vote to overcome, which would mean you would have to get some, you know, 15 Republican Senators and a whole bunch of House Republicans, and the Republicans on top. So we lost on the veto override, and unfortunately, from my perspective as a non-leader, I would keep sending it back. And, you know, and just keep exposing the issue to the American people. But unfortunately, sometimes there's sort of an insider mentality where "well we gotta get something done, and we just can't beat them at that and we just gotta keep them from doing worse things like invading Iran," and, you know, the bills move.
Cenk Uygur: Yeah...now some skeptics would say that the Democrats are perfectly happy to have the Republicans win on these, because it's not the issues they care so much about, as it is the power...and that you guys will win more elections in 2008, and that's what the leadership is concerned about if the Republicans continue to hang themselves on this issue of Iraq. How do you answer those charges?
Pete DeFazio: Well, the leadership and all of us should be concerned about the election. We went through twelve really grim years with the Republicans in charge. There wasn't single hearing held on the issue of Iraq or Halliburton or anything else during all those years. They marched with George Bush for six years. We have sent a heck of a lot of stuff the Senate to decide because there aren't a lot of Democrats over there by the Senate rule, which requires basically 60 votes. And, you know, we have pushed on this issue, and I'm continuing to push on it. And there are quite a few of us that said we are not voting for anymore war funding. It doesn't have a time line to get the U.S out, and a large number of the democrats there, and I think that maybe there's a few Republicans of conscience taking that same position. But very few are coming from one end.
Cenk Uygur: We're talking to Congressman Peter DegFazio from the fourth district of Oregon. And I'm being a little unfair here because I'm asking him to answer for people he disagrees with. Because...and, you know, he's opposed to the Iraq War funding, but I keep coming back to this idea that the Democratic leadership and the Democratic Caucus'. Because look, we were promised in 2006 that if we won, we meaning the Democrats won, apparently that is not the same "we," the Democrats won, that there would be a difference. And so far the hearings have been very good. Credit where credit is due.We just saw Jerrold Nadler earlier on the program talking to Colonel Wilkerson, bringing about detainee abuse. Henry Waxman has done some great hearing, etc. So that has made a difference, and the difference between Democrats and Republicans is clear. No one's confused on that. Having said that, on the major issues, there's been loss after loss. So, I think it's a fair question to ask: In 2008, if you get bigger wins, is there going to be any substantive differences, or is the Democratic leadership going to continue to calculate that if they give into the Republicans no matter how small a minority they are, they're going to continue to win politically, and that's the only thing they care about?
Pete DeFazio: No. I gotta disagree with you there. I mean, it's about getting to a, you know, a workable majority, and hopefully getting a Democratic President, Barack Obama. And there will be a whole different agenda in Washington D.C. I mean, the President under our system has extraordinary power, because anything he vetoes requires a two thirds vote to override. I mean, we are nowhere near two thirds. Barack Obama would not be vetoing a bill that said time lines to get out of Iraq, which means all we would need is a simple majority. Except in the Senate you gotta deal with that 60 vote issue. And there's a possibility the Senate could change the rules. The Republicans threatened to do that, and it made the Democrats scared, and they rained in their filibusters. The Republicans have had more filibusters, well they don't really filibuster anymore, they say they're going to filibuster, the bills get pulled. In the, you know, in the first year of this congress, than in any entire congress in the history of the United States. Because the Democrats can't threaten them at all because basically it's a 50/50 Senate with Lieberman, and you know, if the Democrats get their 57 seats, even short of the 60, they can say to the Republicans, "Look, you mess around like that, you keep blocking our bills, we're going to change the rules just like you said you were going to do it to us when you had 57 votes."
Cenk Uygur: Is that real? Is that being discussed within the Democratic Party?
Pete DeFazio: Well, I would hope. I don't understand Senate culture. You know, it's a different world over there. But I have friends over there who have that position. You know, Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown, and you know, other progressives who are over there, and I think it is real. I think if we get a Democratic President, we got a good majority in the House, we're working with a Democratic President...sending him bills, and there's, you know, say 41 or 42 Republicans who are blocking all our bills, I think you would find at that point that there would be, you know, that they may well push through, change the rules, and say look, "We're going to have a majority rule placed here for change. 51 votes wins all."
Cenk Uygur: So, the Democratic Senators are considering a nuclear option in that scenario?
Pete DeFazio: I believe they are, but I'm not privy to the highest councils over there.
Cenk Uygur: Alright, Congressman Defazio, really interesting interview. We really thank you for coming on to The Young Turks.
Pete DeFazio: No, we haven't voted on it yet.
Cenk Uygur: Oh, okay. The papers have said that you guys are going to buckle on it. But it hasn't happened yet...
Pete DeFazio: Well, you know, I won't be voting for the war funding. They haven't even come up with the rule yet. I don't know, as in we are in recess, which is sort of like the parliamentary black hole right now while they are trying to figure out how to bring the bill up. But I expect in all probability, you are going to see the war funding go through with the majority of the Republican votes. I don't know yet. I don't even know the conditions of which it's going to come out.
Cenk Uygur: Congressman DeFazio, I know you're going to vote against it, and I know you're here trying to publicize the right things. But I got to ask you about the Caucus. Here you guys are losing to the most unpopular President of all time. The Republicans are running for the hills. They got slaughtered in 2006, they're going to get slaughtered even worse in 2008. How can they possibly be winning legislative battles on an issue as important as Iraq?
Pete DeFazio: Well remember, we did manage, last year in May, to put a time line into war funding. The President vetoed it, and that requires a two thirds vote to overcome, which would mean you would have to get some, you know, 15 Republican Senators and a whole bunch of House Republicans, and the Republicans on top. So we lost on the veto override, and unfortunately, from my perspective as a non-leader, I would keep sending it back. And, you know, and just keep exposing the issue to the American people. But unfortunately, sometimes there's sort of an insider mentality where "well we gotta get something done, and we just can't beat them at that and we just gotta keep them from doing worse things like invading Iran," and, you know, the bills move.
Cenk Uygur: Yeah...now some skeptics would say that the Democrats are perfectly happy to have the Republicans win on these, because it's not the issues they care so much about, as it is the power...and that you guys will win more elections in 2008, and that's what the leadership is concerned about if the Republicans continue to hang themselves on this issue of Iraq. How do you answer those charges?
Pete DeFazio: Well, the leadership and all of us should be concerned about the election. We went through twelve really grim years with the Republicans in charge. There wasn't single hearing held on the issue of Iraq or Halliburton or anything else during all those years. They marched with George Bush for six years. We have sent a heck of a lot of stuff the Senate to decide because there aren't a lot of Democrats over there by the Senate rule, which requires basically 60 votes. And, you know, we have pushed on this issue, and I'm continuing to push on it. And there are quite a few of us that said we are not voting for anymore war funding. It doesn't have a time line to get the U.S out, and a large number of the democrats there, and I think that maybe there's a few Republicans of conscience taking that same position. But very few are coming from one end.
Cenk Uygur: We're talking to Congressman Peter DegFazio from the fourth district of Oregon. And I'm being a little unfair here because I'm asking him to answer for people he disagrees with. Because...and, you know, he's opposed to the Iraq War funding, but I keep coming back to this idea that the Democratic leadership and the Democratic Caucus'. Because look, we were promised in 2006 that if we won, we meaning the Democrats won, apparently that is not the same "we," the Democrats won, that there would be a difference. And so far the hearings have been very good. Credit where credit is due.We just saw Jerrold Nadler earlier on the program talking to Colonel Wilkerson, bringing about detainee abuse. Henry Waxman has done some great hearing, etc. So that has made a difference, and the difference between Democrats and Republicans is clear. No one's confused on that. Having said that, on the major issues, there's been loss after loss. So, I think it's a fair question to ask: In 2008, if you get bigger wins, is there going to be any substantive differences, or is the Democratic leadership going to continue to calculate that if they give into the Republicans no matter how small a minority they are, they're going to continue to win politically, and that's the only thing they care about?
Pete DeFazio: No. I gotta disagree with you there. I mean, it's about getting to a, you know, a workable majority, and hopefully getting a Democratic President, Barack Obama. And there will be a whole different agenda in Washington D.C. I mean, the President under our system has extraordinary power, because anything he vetoes requires a two thirds vote to override. I mean, we are nowhere near two thirds. Barack Obama would not be vetoing a bill that said time lines to get out of Iraq, which means all we would need is a simple majority. Except in the Senate you gotta deal with that 60 vote issue. And there's a possibility the Senate could change the rules. The Republicans threatened to do that, and it made the Democrats scared, and they rained in their filibusters. The Republicans have had more filibusters, well they don't really filibuster anymore, they say they're going to filibuster, the bills get pulled. In the, you know, in the first year of this congress, than in any entire congress in the history of the United States. Because the Democrats can't threaten them at all because basically it's a 50/50 Senate with Lieberman, and you know, if the Democrats get their 57 seats, even short of the 60, they can say to the Republicans, "Look, you mess around like that, you keep blocking our bills, we're going to change the rules just like you said you were going to do it to us when you had 57 votes."
Cenk Uygur: Is that real? Is that being discussed within the Democratic Party?
Pete DeFazio: Well, I would hope. I don't understand Senate culture. You know, it's a different world over there. But I have friends over there who have that position. You know, Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown, and you know, other progressives who are over there, and I think it is real. I think if we get a Democratic President, we got a good majority in the House, we're working with a Democratic President...sending him bills, and there's, you know, say 41 or 42 Republicans who are blocking all our bills, I think you would find at that point that there would be, you know, that they may well push through, change the rules, and say look, "We're going to have a majority rule placed here for change. 51 votes wins all."
Cenk Uygur: So, the Democratic Senators are considering a nuclear option in that scenario?
Pete DeFazio: I believe they are, but I'm not privy to the highest councils over there.
Cenk Uygur: Alright, Congressman Defazio, really interesting interview. We really thank you for coming on to The Young Turks.
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