Obama goes to Iraq.

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Obama announced he was going to Iraq.

Why isn’t he going to Afghanistan, where we are supporting another ally who is also fighting against al Qaeda?

Obama already knows what he will see in Iraq. In fact, he already knows what he will say when he gets back, after seeing what he already knows that he will see.

< Iran and the Balance of Power | Why Dems Cave in. >

Poll

After returning from Iraq, Barack Obama will:
Pledge to listen to the commanders on the ground before making decisions regarding withdrawal. 33%
Pledge to make decisions regarding withdrawal, prior to listening to commanders on the ground. 0%
Pledge (once again) to redeploy forces in Iraq to Okinawa. 0%
Pledge to redeploy forces in Iraq to Afghanistan. 33%
Pledge (once again) to invade Pakistan. 0%
Pledge to bring everybody home from Iraq and Afghanistan, and just quit worrying about al Qaeda. 33%

Votes: 3
Results | Other Polls
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I thought that I would take the opportunity to answer the questions in your profile. Sorry if someone has already done this for you.

 

  1. There have been attacks on US soil since 9/11; namely, the still unsolved anthrax attacks. But to give credit where credit is due, there haven’t been any major attacks by Al Queda on US soil. This is, no doubt, due to domestic security precautions, but also in no small part to the fact that the US has provided A.Q. with a huge target much closer to their base of operations: 130,000 troops and billions of dollars in material in Iraq.
  2. I haven’t read the ins-and-outs of Fitzgerald’s inquiry, but it is an established fact that Rove did leak the information to reporters. The workings of the legal system are difficult to interpret, and so the answer to your question is beyond my ability, but nevertheless, Rove was identified as a source of the information about Plame to Bob Novak and to Matt Cooper.
  3. Iraq will not be overrun with A.Q. if the US leaves. They are a minority presence and are not embraced by most Iraqis. Afghanistan, on the other hand, has a history of being very tolerant of A.Q. Remember, A.Q. is closely linked with the Mujahideen, who are considered national heroes in Afghanistan.
  4. Because they are weak and corrupt.
  5. The economy isn’t all that strong right now, as you may have noticed. The dollar is tanking. The White House predicts that the budget deficit will increase to $410 billion in 2008, up from $163 billion in 2007, and just under the deficit of $413 billion in 2004. The financial cost of the war isn’t impacting us drastically yet because it is being paid for on credit from lenders.
  6. See the answer to #4.
  7. Absolutely. But intelligently, and not by attacking a country that has no substantial ties to A.Q.
  8. I am not so sure that it was, and I certainly didn’t advocate it at the time. However, the US involvement in Serbia did attain an air of legitimacy by involving NATO, but alas, didn’t happen under the auspices of the U.N. In any event, two wrongs don’t make a right, do they?
  9. According to Joe Romm, a Prius produces 6,000 lbs of co2 in a year (12,000 miles and 240 gallons). A brand new non-hybrid produces 11,000 – 12,000 lbs. So assuming that all drivers driving non-hybrids are driving these newer cars, the reduction would be about 50%. Of course, this is overly simplistic (not accounting for commercial transportation and the number of drivers already driving hybrids), but you get the idea.
  10. Not sure. Some claim that nuclear energy is not cost effective, due to the high costs of opening new plants. Gore, though, probably doesn’t like the idea of having to deal with nuclear waste.
  11. Who knows or cares? Clarence Thomas was a bad pick for completely unrelated issues, such as a lack of intellectual vigor. The ABA, remember, couldn’t even give him a qualified rating prior to his confirmation. For the record, I am opposed to the public airing of anyone’s dirty laundry (save hypocrites caught doing the very things that they publicly claim to abhor – that’s just too much fun).
  12. We should. However, as both Clinton’s and Bush’s diplomatic efforts with respect to North Korea indicate, we do not necessarily have to resort to violence to achieve this goal.
  13. It probably had something to do with deficit spending to fund a wasteful military buildup. The reforms of Gorbachev and pro-independence movements in the Bloc were probably sufficient to bring about the end of the Soviet Union without these costly measures.
  14. Because his tough posture in this respect has not been backed up by an intelligent strategy.
  15. Doubtful. As recent events have proven, the sanctions seem to have worked well. Saddam had been unable to restart his nuclear program following the first Gulf War. I have no doubt that he would be doing everything in his power to make everyone (including Iran) think that he had nuclear weapons, though. But this is purely speculative.
  16. Probably none, assuming that he isn’t dead already.
  17. The beauty of the free market is that they can. The travesty of it is that the consumer hasn’t rejected their piss-poor efforts at being a news organization.
  18. Absolutely. I would never silence the man, and to my knowledge, no one ever has (save to suggest that such a divisive partisan not be aired on Armed Forces Radio at taxpayer expense, which seems reasonable).
  19. Who said I liked socialism? The labels ‘progressive’ and ‘liberal’ are not synonymous with ‘socialist’.
  20. Certainly not the preponderance of ill-informed jackasses who present an obstacle to legitimate change.

 

 

By God, they were easy!

 

 

Tullius

by Tullius on 07/10/2008 07:26:26 AM EST


Talk about a target rich post!

“But to give credit where credit is due, there haven’t been any major attacks by Al Queda on US soil. This is, no doubt, due to domestic security precautions, but also in no small part to the fact that the US has provided A.Q. with a huge target much closer to their base of operations: 130,000 troops and billions of dollars in material in Iraq.”
The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are killing al Qaeda with efficiency. What else would you have our military do? Statistics prove there are a finite number of Islamic Jihadists who want to die for Allah. When American forces kill an average of 1500 jihadists per month, their numbers naturally diminish through attrition.
 
“I haven’t read the ins-and-outs of Fitzgerald’s inquiry, but it is an established fact that Rove did leak the information to reporters. The workings of the legal system are difficult to interpret, and so the answer to your question is beyond my ability, but nevertheless, Rove was identified as a source of the information about Plame to Bob Novak and to Matt Cooper.”
You’re a little late to catch up with the news. The reason that Pat Fitzgerald never indicted anyone for outing the identity of Valerie Plame is because she was no longer covert the moment Cheney declared her declassified. I love this 90 second exchange between Tim Russert and Dick Cheney. Pay particular attention to the last 15 seconds. How do you like Cheney's cute little smile?

“4. Because they are weak and corrupt.” “See the answer to #4.” “See the answer to #4.” “See the answer to #4.” “See the answer to #4.” “See the answer to #4.”
If Democrats are consistently weak and corrupt, why would you want them controlling the country?
 
 
“I am not so sure that it was, and I certainly didn’t advocate it at the time. However, the US involvement in Serbia did attain an air of legitimacy by involving NATO, but alas, didn’t happen under the auspices of the U.N. In any event, two wrongs don’t make a right, do they?”
Serbia didn’t have trillions of dollars worth of oil or millions of dollars worth of yellow cake, did they?

“According to Joe Romm, a Prius produces 6,000 lbs of co2 in a year (12,000 miles and 240 gallons). A brand new non-hybrid produces 11,000 – 12,000 lbs. So assuming that all drivers driving non-hybrids are driving these newer cars, the reduction would be about 50%. Of course, this is overly simplistic (not accounting for commercial transportation and the number of drivers already driving hybrids), but you get the idea. “
If every American switched to a Prius tomorrow, the reduction in manmade CO2 would be less than 4% of the global total, and probably much lower than 4%. Then what?

“Not sure. Some claim that nuclear energy is not cost effective, due to the high costs of opening new plants. Gore, though, probably doesn’t like the idea of having to deal with nuclear waste.”
France, Sweden, Lithuania, and Japan practically run their entire electrical grid on nuclear energy. Look into it. Nuclear energy can be produced with virtually zero CO2 emissions.

“Who knows or cares?”
Juanita cares. She was raped.

“We should. However, as both Clinton’s and Bush’s diplomatic efforts with respect to North Korea indicate, we do not necessarily have to resort to violence to achieve this goal.”
Clinton’s ”diplomatic efforts” produced these results. Bush’s cooperation with China to strong arm North Korea produced these results.
 
“It probably had something to do with deficit spending to fund a wasteful military buildup. The reforms of Gorbachev and pro-independence movements in the Bloc were probably sufficient to bring about the end of the Soviet Union without these costly measures.”
It took 70 years, but Free Market Capitalism finally destroyed Socialist Totalitarianism. If you don’t like that story, then your other option is to honor Ronald Reagan.
  
 “Doubtful. As recent events have proven, the sanctions seem to have worked well. Saddam had been unable to restart his nuclear program following the first Gulf War. I have no doubt that he would be doing everything in his power to make everyone (including Iran) think that he had nuclear weapons, though. But this is purely speculative.”
This just in. Saddam has billions of petrodollars and a strong interest in nuclear weaponry.

“Absolutely. I would never silence Limbaugh, and to my knowledge, no one ever has (save to suggest that such a divisive partisan not be aired on Armed Forces Radio at taxpayer expense, which seems reasonable). “
Nancy Pelosi would Hush Rush. Do you have a problem broadcasting Bill Moyers at taxpayer expense?

“Who said I liked socialism? The labels ‘progressive’ and ‘liberal’ are not synonymous with ‘socialist’.&rd quo;
The labels ‘progressive’ and ‘liberal’ are synonymous with redistribution of wealth. Call it whatever you like.

by KenTX on 07/11/2008 12:30:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The vast majority of this blather doesn't even rebut the assertions.  The rest doesn't rebut it effectively.  

by gnomeklpto on 07/11/2008 06:58:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]

You cannot seem to hit the right target. I think gnomeklpto put it more succicntly than I possibly could, but KenTX, I’ll try to help you out.

 

1.    &nb sp; Even if I grant that the US is effectively killing A.Q. in Iraq and Afghanistan (the latter claim is particularly dubious), that doesn’t sap the force of the original claim, which is that A.Q. can more effectively strike the US in the Middle East/ Central Asia than they can in the US.

2.    &nb sp; The VP doesn’t have the authority to declassify information, save any that he himself classified per E.O.13292. He wasn’t responsible for Plame’s covert status, so he could not have declassified it. Q.E.D.

3.    &nb sp; Who said that I do want them in charge, at least as they currently exist? You seem to have a habit of attributing beliefs to people you don’t even know. You might want to get that looked at.

4.    &nb sp; You got me. I was concerned with CO2 produced by commuters (as my comment indicated).

5.    &nb sp; The CO2 claim might be true, but it doesn’t negate the worry about nuclear waste, which was attributed to Gore, per your original question.

6.    &nb sp; Anyone who has been raped has my sympathy. But the original question concerned why people believed Hill over Brodderick, and by extension, opposed Thomas and supported Clinton. I don’t particularly care about Hill’s claims against Thomas; there are plenty of other reasons to object to his placement on the court. As for Brodderick, if she was telling the truth, then Bill Clinton ought to be prosecuted for his crime. But your response is off target.

7.    &nb sp; Check your facts. Clinton’s efforts kept Korea from going nuclear throughout his term. Did they pursue technology during this period? Yes. Did they develop the weapons? No. They developed them during the early years of this decade, during Bush’s first term. North Korea did offer in 2003 to halt the program in exchange for concessions, but Bush’s tough stance would allow for this, and so the program went ahead, culminating in the 2006 tests. The recent developments, contrary to what you claim, are the result of old-fashioned diplomacy (halting of the program in exchange for economic aid). Sorry, no youtube.

8.    &nb sp; I never claimed anything to the contrary, but the end of the Soviet Union occurred as it did not because of Reagan (as you seemed to indicate), but because of forces within the Union.

9.    &nb sp; Saddam is dead, and has nothing. But nevertheless, it should be clear to you that he had not restarted his program, and that there is no reason to think that we could not have kept him under control, despite whatever resources and interests he had.

10.  Whatever Pelosi does, that doesn’t address my response to your question about whether I think Rush should be allowed to do his thing. Stay on target, boy. And Moyers isn’t the same sort of entity that Rush is. Moyers, whatever his politics might be, is a journalist. Rush is an entertainer.

11.  There is a massive difference between supporting some redistribution of wealth, as advocated by liberals, and a massive redistribution of wealth, as advocated by socialists. Sit in on Intro to Political Science.

 

 

by Tullius on 07/11/2008 10:29:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't know what happened to the formatting, but that sorta takes the wind out of my sails.

by Tullius on 07/11/2008 10:30:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Like a laser guided missile.  

“save to suggest that such a divisive partisan not be aired on Armed Forces Radio at taxpayer expense, which seems reasonable”
Al Franken and Ed Schultz were broadcast on Armed Forces Radio, at taxpayers’ expense. I searched high and low, and yet I’m unable to find a complaint from you on that issue. And Al Franken is a partisan Democrat, running for the freakin’ Senate!

“Bill Moyers, whatever his politics might be, is a journalist.”
Bill O’Reilly, whatever his politics might be, is a journalist. Should American taxpayers be funding O’Reilly’s nightly diatribe on PBS?

“Even if I grant that the US is effectively killing A.Q. in Iraq and Afghanistan (the latter claim is particularly dubious), that doesn’t sap the force of the original claim, which is that A.Q. can more effectively strike the US in the Middle East/ Central Asia than they can in the US.”
The U.S. military can more effectively strike al Qaeda in the Middle East than they can in the U.S. We have the world’s greatest military. Should we use them to support allies like Afghanistan and Iraq and the Philippians as they battle against al Qaeda? What good is a multi-trillion dollar military, if we can’t use it to fight our enemies?

“You got me. I was concerned with CO2 produced by commuters (as my comment indicated).”
The point is that if every American commuter changed his driving habits, and reduced his generation of CO2 by 50%, the net effect on global manmade greenhouse gas production would be negligible.  &nbs p; 

“The CO2 claim might be true, but it doesn’t negate the worry about nuclear waste, which was attributed to Gore, per your original question.”
If the entire electrical grid was converted to nuclear energy, the long term effect on CO2 reduction would be significant.  By comparison, a shot glass could contain the total amount of nuclear waste you would generate if every kilowatt of electricity you consumed throughout your life came from nuclear energy.

“I never claimed anything to the contrary, but the end of the Soviet Union occurred as it did not because of Reagan (as you seemed to indicate), but because of forces within the Union.”
The people of Prague would disagree with you. The people of Budapest would disagree with you. The people of Gdansk would disagree with you. They lived under the Soviet boot for 40 years, and they know what really happened, unlike you.

“There is no reason to think that we could not have kept [Saddam] under control, despite whatever resources and interests he had.”
Kind of like we’re keeping Iran under control?

“There is a massive difference between supporting some redistribution of wealth, as advocated by liberals, and a massive redistribution of wealth, as advocated by socialists.”
When comparing tax rates in the U.S. with tax rates in Sweden, I’m not sure we could characterize the difference as “massive”.

“The VP doesn’t have the authority to declassify information, save any that he himself classified per E.O.13292. He wasn’t responsible for Plame’s covert status, so he could not have declassified it. Q.E.D.”
Pardon me while I consult more knowledgeable sources on the subject Executive Order 13292. It appears that Pat Fitzgerald surmised that George Bush was highly unlikely to overrule his boss, Dick Cheney, on matters related to declassification.

Here's a Dick Cheney exchange with Brit Hume on the subject.

Brit Hume: Let me ask you another question. Is it your view that a Vice President has the authority to declassify information?
Dick Cheney: There is an executive order to that effect.  
Brit Hume: You ever done it unilaterally?
Dick Cheney: I don't want to get into that. There is an executive order that specifies who has classification authority, and obviously focuses first and foremost on the President, but also includes the Vice President.

by KenTX on 07/12/2008 05:00:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Gee what a surprise... many of us ( me) said that the Surge would be pronounced a success by by the neo-retards , even before it started...and it was.

Of course the Surge is "sucessfull" because we segregating the country by religious groups behind walls, surrendered to the Iranian backed Shias for a "peace" deal, and bribed the Suni to fight the miniscule al Qeada forces in Iraq. For our trillion dollars we  established a Shia cresent of influence in the Gulf placing more oil under Irainian influence. Not a word about that from the right... so that being said

Obama Bush already knows what he will see in ( fill in the blank) . In fact, he already knows what he will say when he gets back, after seeing what he already knows that he will see.

Obama Petraeus already knows what he will see in ( fill in the blank). In fact, he already knows what he will say when he gets back, after seeing what he already knows that he will see.

Obama McCain already knows what he will see in ( fill in the blank). In fact, he already knows what he will say when he gets back, after seeing what he already knows that he will see. 

 

Your point?

 

 

by MRFred on 07/10/2008 07:28:05 AM EST


I am very, very disappointed in this thread.

Based on the title "Obama Goes To Iraq" I was hoping for  pop-up book or something.

I expect better next time.

by ihavenobias on 07/10/2008 10:00:18 AM EST


Obama already knows what he will see in Iraq. In fact, he already knows what he will say when he gets back, after seeing what he already knows that he will see.

He knows the substance of what he'll say, but he doesn't yet know how to break it to the nutroots that he is running for Bush's third term.

by Twba on 07/15/2008 03:10:23 PM EST


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