Netroots Try To Label Fox News As 'Opinion Media': Good Idea?

Email Print posted by ihavenobias 07/18/2008 10:52:09 AM EST

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Netroots Try To Label Fox News As 'Opinion Media' At Conference: Good Idea?

Last July (2007) Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks came up with the idea of labeling Fox as "Opinion Media".

He was even invited on Countdown with Keith Olbermann because apparently Keith liked the idea.

At any rate, according to the New York Times, The Netroots has taken this to heart and "Planners of the conference want to force representatives of the cable news network to wear credentials identifying them as opinion media rather than providing them with the regular press passes other news outlets will receive.

“Fox News calls itself fair and balanced, but it’s not,” Josh Orton, political director for Netroots said in an interview. He accused the network, which is popular among conservatives, of misrepresenting itself..."

So, what do YOU think? Is it a good idea to try and label Fox News opinion media? What are the pros and cons?

PS---Don't miss the new show Meet The Bloggers which starts today, Friday July 18th, at 1pm EST. It's hosted by Cenk of TYT and there will be many guests this summer, including Rachel Maddow, Arianna Huffington, John Cusack and many more!
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Netroots Try To Label Fox News As 'Opinion Media': Good Idea? | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 hidden)
I think it is a brilliant idea (none / 0)
Some things just make sense*. Much of what the netroots does is media criticism; why on earth would you treat Fox news like a legit news organisation when you spend your life's work arguing that its not?

Labeling them as opinion media isn't a school-yard taunt, it's the truth.

Meet the Bloggers also makes sense. I'm so stoked that it's returning!*

by dclawyer06 on 07/18/2008 12:48:21 PM EST

Granted that Fox... (none / 0)
Is a bit preposterous as a "straight" news organization, but can anyone here tell me another one of these types of channels that isn't slanted and biased? Fact is, ALL of the Cable and Network news channels are obviously biased one way or another - that's what happens when corporations run news media. Why aren't the netroots going after MSNBC or CNN, 2 of the more left leaning networks? If Fox anchors/reporters need special "labels" asd "opinion media" so do the others because they are just as guilty! Thanks... :)

by bobo1 on 07/18/2008 01:19:02 PM EST

CNN leans left?! (none / 0)

I must have missed that part between all of Lou Dobbs' xenophobic race-baiting and Wolf Blitzer's right wing "coverage."

 

by dclawyer06 on 07/18/2008 04:38:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I was thinking more... (none / 0)
Of Campell Browns daily "Obamagasms" on her election show, the "Black in America" series which they advertise non stop and their many environmentalisism specials... Also One name - Tony Brown - the man is an idiot leftist if ever there has been one so clearly in existence!!! Not too merntion the old "Communist News Network" monniker that has been around for decades!!! Lou Dobbs is not a Conservative (and certainly not xenophobic). Don't get me started on Dobbs!!! He's the only one on CNN who isn't a full fledged Obamabot and tree hugger!!! Thanks...

by bobo1 on 07/18/2008 06:12:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No, sorry (none / 0)
The idea that CNN is liberal is a conservative figment of the imagination.

CNN is "liberal" in the sense that's it (usually) not as blatantly conservative as Fox News, which is an easy metric to meet.

Sure, they have environment specials but why is that "liberal"? They also have the economy as Issue # 1 every day, is the "liberal" (i.e. economy=business=republican )?


Glenn Beck is on CNN Headline News, and there is NO liberal equivalent that is nearly as partisan and gets nearly the air time that he does.


The End

by ihavenobias on 07/18/2008 06:18:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bias... (none / 0)
Glenn Beck is over on Headline News that has about 6 viewers (although Robin Meade is a total BABE!!!) He's their answer to Hannity and Colmes. Campell Brown's show is the most Pro-Obama show other than Countdown and Hardball on MSNBC...There is no denying it, Bias... AC 360 Earth specials are right out of the Al Gore school of propoganda - Please, Bias, don't act stupid and say they are not leftist specials...Tree huggers are usually Liberals, with RARE exception... The "Economy First" segments are basically (and rightfully) "Bush policy bashing hours", so don't even say they are on the right... What's the worry if CNN is Liberal? It always has been and that's OK! :)

by bobo1 on 07/18/2008 06:29:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Examples please (none / 0)
I'm not taking your word for it because you've made up your mind.

Prove your case.

What conservative networks and publications hire liberals BTW? Fox hired Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee and Laura Ingraham.

Newsweek also hired Karl Rove.  The NY Times has David Brooks, Tom Friedman and more recently, necon Bill Kristol.

Outside of Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow, you've got NOTHING. You can't name a SINGLE show host with his own show.  Even MSNBC has Joe Scarborough and Maddow is just a political commentator for now (just like MSNBC's Pat Buchanan).

The environment is a big issue. A majority of Americans believe in global warming as do the majority of scientists. If CNN covers environmental issues and reflects the majority opinion, wouldn't that in fact be "centrist"?

The truth is that CNN is a "moderate" network that often buys into Republican framing on issues (i.e. surge is working, McCain is a maverick and so on).

PS---And again, there's this bullshit.

by ihavenobias on 07/18/2008 06:43:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
examples (none / 0)
FoxNews is loaded with Democrat Party talking heads, like this guy and this gal.

by KenTX on 07/18/2008 07:12:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's still (none / 0)
state television, not journalism.

by hazmat on 07/18/2008 08:25:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Those two weak ass examples (none / 0)
equal "loaded with Democrat Party talking heads"?


Honestly, is Howard Wolfson considered to be a strong progressive by ANYBODY?  I don't think even HE believes that.

He epitomizes the watered down centrists who, as Cenk rightly points out, agree with the Fox host 75% of the time and weakly and passively disagree the other 25%.

Outside of Keith Olbermann (not saying he's as bad but I'll concede him), name ONE cable news guy/gal with their own show that is the liberal equivalent of O'Reilly/Beck/Hannity, etc.

Just one.

PS---Good organizations fire people if they screw up badly or they cause people to question the credibility of their networks. Propagandists give them raises and protect them.

by ihavenobias on 07/18/2008 09:51:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Examples (none / 0)
CNN's Brown called MoveOn.org "American insurgents"

CNN's Bash cited McCain's Afghanistan plan as "proof" that he knows "how to win wars"

CNN's Roberts asserted that McCain is a "maverick" and "independent" from Bush, ignoring McCain's votes and statements

Then again, why am I bothering when I could just do this.

by ihavenobias on 07/18/2008 06:59:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
So your only evidence of CNN's liberal (none / 0)

bias is that conservatives claim it exists. Limbaugh thinks John McCain and S.Ct. justice Anthony Kennedy are liberals too.

By your logic anything conservatives claim is liberal IS liberal because conservatives say so. Nifty trick.

by dclawyer06 on 07/19/2008 03:52:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
There are a few good ones I forgot to mention... (none / 0)
Betty Nyguen - Foxy VC Babe! Brianna Keilar - Grrrrr... Jack Cafferty - Cranky old fuck, but he hates the lefties so he's OK by me!!! :)

by bobo1 on 07/18/2008 06:16:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sure (none / 0)
CNN is SO liberal.

by ihavenobias on 07/18/2008 06:21:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
CNN is so liberal (none / 0)
ihavenobias, please peruse my comment re. CNN and Wolf.

by psyche2 on 07/18/2008 08:21:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
OVER THE LINE! (none / 0)

I find it hilarious that Bobo always tries to paint himself as the "voice of reason," yet all he ever does is stuff like this. 

Defending Fox News?  Bobo, are you sure?  Even if you spin it as, "No news company is perfectly unbiased," you're entering a world of pain.

For someone who has spent so much time claiming he is in touch with "Joe Sixpack," he sure is oblivious to popular opinion in the world outside the US.  I challenge you to find me a Fox Opinion Media clip on YouTube where the majority of the resulting comments are from people who want to defend Fox on the basis of being "reasonable."

(Incidentally, if Joe Sixpack is the average American, what do we call the average Earthling?   The most common given name in the world is Mohammed. And I suppose water is the most popular beverage.  So Bobo is very much out of touch with Mohammed Glass of Water.)

by OneHitKill on 07/18/2008 08:02:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Who said I was defending Fox News? (none / 0)
I was simply suggesting that it works both ways, and that if we are to label Fox as "opinion" news then we should consider doing the same to CNN and MSNBC as well as the networks - that's all... I actually agree with Rich on this - its a stupid debate to say who is opinion and who is not - when it comes to corporation driven propoganda, its ALL opinion! :)

by bobo1 on 07/18/2008 08:26:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks Bobes (none / 0)
::::::fistbump::::::::

by ProfRich on 07/18/2008 10:36:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Okay, you consider that. I'm going ahead. (none / 1)

Yeah, I get it.  Everything works both ways.  You can tie your shoes, or you can just let those laces flap free.  But you know what?  Just tie your shoes, or you end up nose-first in the street.

If all media is "opinion media," then the very phrase "opinion media" is redundant.  But there are degrees of bias and that is what I believe was intended by the original proposal. 

by OneHitKill on 07/19/2008 10:36:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
bobo please (none / 0)

Fux Noise is not just opinion. It is premeditated propaganda and an arm of the right wingnut rethuglican Gestapo.  I can understand your repudiation of my comment on the chat the other night regarding my proclivity to label right wingnuts NAZIs.  I do that to place emphasis or maybe overemphasis on the destruction that entities like FUX NOISE, Rush Limpballs & Krauthammer have propagated on our democracy.  Of coooooouuuuuurrrrrrrsssssee eee the other cable news networks and even the ABCs & NBCs of the world are biased.  Their bias is similiar to Fux noise in one pervasive way ......   $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.& nbsp; However, Fux noise is blatant and unapologetic and denies they are in business to keep cocksuckers on the right wing in power.  They are an instrument of propaganda pure and simple.  Check out "afterdowningstreet&qu ot;, "truthout", "truthdig" and "The Real News" some time. Except for "The Real News" they are all slanted.  But not to bring the country to Fascisim. And they do produce at least a modicum of truth without distortion.  Also, I have noticed on the "left leaning" MSNBC and CNN (in my opinion [here we go with opinions]) CNN is not left leaning.  For Christ sake, Wolf Blitzer is left leaning? He couldn't say shit with a mouth full.  BTW, don't get me wrong Bobo, thru reading your chats and posts I have developed a respect for your perspective. Don't agree with you all the X. Can't say that about FUX NOISE tho, that organization is contributing to the demise of our republic. Another BTW, the other MSM outlets are not "just as guilty" as FUX NOISE.  Guilty, but not to the extent of Fox...........    .........................(i n my humble opinion)

Your Turk brother,


Psyche2 

by psyche2 on 07/18/2008 07:09:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nice to see you on the blogs, Psyche!!! (none / 0)
I didn't think you came round these here parts - what I'll say to your comment is this - If you belive that any of these networks are suppliers of truth in ANY regard, then I truly feel sorry for you, brother... Whether you get it from Fux (I like that term!), CNN, MSNBC or the networks, just understand that you're getting ass-fucked either direction, and that you should take anything they say with an entire Oceans worth of salt! They are all contributing to our downfall, some might say that they represent the epitome of our demise itself! Thanks for your comments... :)

by bobo1 on 07/18/2008 08:39:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Reply to bobo (none / 0)

I must say, you have a rational, valid point.  Unfortunately, the "ass fucking" will continue.  Lets work toward truth to power my brother, even tho we have our differences. It is healthy to disagree and debate the issues without engaging in strategies all too common with the Bushies, to destroy those that do not concur with their ideologies. i.e. Joseph Wilson and many others.

Hope to chat with ya tonight.

Psyche 

by psyche2 on 07/18/2008 08:59:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Fox news (none / 0)

doesn't do journalism.

What you say about these other organizations is 100% true. To the extent that they are biased though, its largely due to emulating Fox in style and delivery. But these networks still do some actual original reporting. The complaint against fox isn't that they're biased--its that they're not news.

Any journalist will tell you that all news is biased in some way. Its unavoidable. But apart from WH press conferences--Fox restricts themselves to disseminating the conservative/GOP spin on stories that other organizations put out. There's very little actual investigative work done by fox news "reporters". For example Fox doesn't have a correspondent in Iraq, or didn't until very recently, which is surprising given that Fox was the driving force behind the war.

Bottom line is there's little to distinguish what they do from what Air America or TYT does (aside from much higher production value).

by hazmat on 07/18/2008 08:57:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Gotta' Agree (none / 0)
If there were some paradigm shift, and suddenly Fox was doing the same thing they do now, but in favor of the left, would the "Netroots" still want them labeled opinion media. I know it would take three kinds of magical fantasyland for that shift to happen, but if it did you'd have to apply the same test, and would progressives make the same choice in labels? Don't think so.

by gxttotten on 07/18/2008 03:13:45 PM EST

Do you think there's a difference (none / 1)
between slants and opinions compared to outright lies and propaganda?

I know there's a spectrum and it's not that black and white, but often times Fox ends up in the outright lies and propaganda area.

What is the liberal equivalent (in the MSM) of "terrorist fist jab", "Obama plagiarizing Cuomo" and photo-shopped NYT reporters?

by ihavenobias on 07/18/2008 03:43:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
But just imagine (none / 0)

What the right would do if Fox (or any network) became a leftie version of Fox.

I think that is more the point.

by ProfRich on 07/18/2008 05:45:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Guess what? (none / 0)

The liberal pundits are gonna say liberal shit and the conservative pundits are gonna say conservative shit.  The liberal show hosts are gonna have liberal shows and the conservative show hosts are gonna have conservative shows.  The liberal issue specials are gonna be liberal and the conservative issue specials are gonna be conservative.

None of that is even worth talking about.  The question is when these networks are presenting something as straight news (not commentary) is it slanted.  Does the Fox News desk cover shit a certain way (or not cover shit at all) because they are right wing propaganda?  Hell Yes.  Does the CNN Desk (not commentary) cover things a certain way (or not cover them) because they are left wing propaganda?  Not even close.

Arguing about who has clearly labeled openly liberal or conservative pundits is silly.  The issue is who tries to disguise spin and propaganda as straight news.

by ProfRich on 07/18/2008 07:24:51 PM EST

Rich has questions (none / 0)
"The question is when these networks are presenting something as straight news (not commentary) is it slanted."  

"Does the CNN Desk (not commentary) cover things a certain way (or not cover them) because they are left wing propaganda?  Not even close."

"The issue is who tries to disguise spin and propaganda as straight news."

I'm happy I was the guy who provided the answers.
 



by KenTX on 07/18/2008 07:35:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
How to recognize "Opinion Media". (none / 0)
When everyone gets their asses fired, for politically motivated, biased hit peices, that's called "opinion media".

The primary difference between FoxNews and CNN and CBS is that top executives at FoxNews have never been forced to resign over charges they fabricated news in an effort to support a political agenda.

Bernie Goldberg, a self-described lifelong liberal Democrat, with 25 years experience as a reporter with CBS wrote a bestseller called "Bias", where he examined the blatant bias in the Mainstream Dinosaur Media (MDM).

The CBS News organization is full of liars, from top to bottom.

The CNN News organization is full of liars, from top to bottom.

The CNN News organization will actively cover up the truth to curry favor with tyrants.
 
“Eason Jordan resigned last night as CNN's chief news executive in an effort to quell a burgeoning controversy over his remarks about U.S. soldiers killing journalists in Iraq.”

He also admitted that CNN had covered up events in Iraq, so Saddam Hussein would allow them to keep a news bureau in the country.

“CNN chief news executive Eason Jordan yesterday sent a memo to his staff defending his decision to withhold information about how Saddam Hussein's regime had intimidated, tortured and killed Iraqis who had helped the cable news network over the years.”

"Withholding information that would get innocent people killed was the right thing to do, not a journalistic sin, Jordan said."

“Asked to resign were Senior Vice President Betsy West, who supervised CBS News primetime programs; 60 Minutes Wednesday Executive Producer Josh Howard; and Howard’s deputy, Senior Broadcast Producer Mary Murphy. The producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, was terminated.”

Subsequently, Dan Rather, the titular head of CBS News, was forced into a humiliating resignation. Rather had been going after the Bush family for decades.

Every story is an example of MDM outlets trying to fabricate the news in an effort to sway public opinion. They used to get away with this kind of horseshit everyday, but the alternative media and the blogosphere are pressuring these guys to become honest brokers of the news.

by KenTX on 07/18/2008 07:30:49 PM EST

The news CNN wouldn't tell you. (none / 0)
More "quality journalism".

by KenTX on 07/18/2008 07:39:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Save the Ken (none / 0)

You said, in an earlier comment, that you love YouTube.  Out of curiosity, do you ever read the comments left by users there?  I've never seen a single person defend Fox News in a YouTube comment.

Sub-question:  What's it like to be a dying breed? 

by OneHitKill on 07/18/2008 08:05:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The difference (none / 0)
Unlike these organisations you list, Fox news, like their WH masters, would never fire anyone for anything (a lack of journalistic integrity, for example) except going off message.

by hazmat on 07/18/2008 10:13:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Repeat (none / 0)

I know for sure we have seen this post before.  At this point I pointed out the difference is that Fox doesn't fire reporters for lying and blatantly disseminating propaganda like a real news organization does.  In fact, it promotes them. 

See Ken, the fact that Fox never fires any of their little demons is not a defense of Fox, but an indictment.  Its like saying in an anarchic society no one ever gets arrested so therefore there is no crime.

In fact, Fox sued for the right to fire two reporters for reporting the truth!  As I am sure we all remember.  They actually argued they could force their reporters to knowingly tell lies.  To their credit, Fox does have some serious balls.

by ProfRich on 07/18/2008 10:42:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
child molesters (none / 0)

have balls.

Fox news... the network of child molesters? Let's hear both points of view.

by hazmat on 07/19/2008 02:59:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
What "Opinion Media" looks like. (none / 0)
Let’s say that a nut named Larry Sinclair brought a salacious story to FoxNews, detailing drug use and gay sex between him and Barack Obama.

Let’s say that Larry the Fairy fabricated phony documents at a Kinko’s in Abilene, Texas “proving” that Barack Obama was a crack smoking, dick sucking, Islamic jihadist, and the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.

Let’s say that FoxNews didn’t bother to check out the accuracy of the story, or the authenticity of the documents.

Let’s say that the FoxNews Producer and Anchor were known to be unabashed partisan political hacks.

Let’s say that FoxNews developed the story in April, but they sat on the story until late October, in order to achieve maximum impact damage to the Obama campaign.

Let’s say that Brit Hume took control of the story, because he had been trying to nail the Obama family for years, and he ran an hour long special in prime time on Sunday night.

Let’s say the phony story was exposed by bloggers at Huffington Post, and the story was universally debunked as garbage.

Let’s say that Brit Hume and the top producers at FoxNews were forced to resign in humiliating disgrace.

Let’s say that FoxNews was the laughing stock of the news media for the next 20 years.

THAT’S what “Opinion Media” looks like.

The moral to the story is that Bob Greenwald and Media Matters can discredit FoxNews. All they need to do is catch them lying as badly as CNN and CBS.

by KenTX on 07/19/2008 03:23:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fox doesn't fabricate stories (none / 0)
because they don't do any reporting.

by hazmat on 07/19/2008 03:30:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fucking A, fucking B, and fucking C, Ken Tex (none / 0)

I just wish I had thought of that.

Peace out 

by psyche2 on 07/18/2008 08:18:10 PM EST

Netroots Try To Label Fox News As 'Opinion Media': Good Idea? | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 hidden)
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