"Don't Talk about Religion or Politics"

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First blog post (I'm used to making senseless rants, but now I actually put some thought behind what I say to fit in with the other posts).

I spent my evening tonight at my grandmother's 70th birthday party.  One of the more nerve-wracking prospects of going to family functions is my uncle, who is a staunch conservative, who always happens to put his two cents in.  Of course, this went down tonight.  Obama was mentioned in passing, and of course, this statement followed "If it was up to him Iraq wouldn't even be a question."  In classic fashion, I froze, and in spite of delusions of being a politician (fat chance), I didn't mention Iraq.  However, thanks to information I got from TYT (And other sources :) ) about Obama's tax plan, I was able to rebut the comment about voting with one's cheque book. 
The discomfort of talking about politics with the previous generation is one of intimidation and is a question of who holds a monopoly of information at the dinner table in question.  The perception is, especially if you're still college age, is that they know more, and you know less.  Further, being freshly turned out of a undergraduate institution, how valuable could your opinion be in the face of someone who's been voting republican since Reagan? 
In my very limited experience (of not knowing what to say when confronted with an opposing view) it's easy to forget at that moment, that each side has their own facts and more likely than not, has refuted the so-called facts of their opponent, irrespective of the other's age or experience. 
Another problem is responding to a near Parthian political comment, during a conversation that is far from political.  It's not as if you come in prepared to reply to what Aunt Harriet says about how inadequate Barack Obama is during a conversation about African cuisine, but is this the result of a lack of information or the inability to debate aggressively?
It's unfortunate that, according to what I've seen from my own proletarian background, working-cl ass culture frequently tells us "Don't talk about religion or politics."  This not only avoids conflict that is necessary and important, it retards the maturity of the nation, it leaves the average American unable to conduct an intelligent, cool-headed conversation with his or her own family and leaves that to more interested, passionate and/or well-educated members of society. 

Not only that but while the leftists and progressives usually try to be more polite and follow the "don't talk about religion or politics" rule at family functions, the more conservative family members at the dinner table, all fired up from the latest Bill O or Mike Weiner tirade, are just itching to make the first jab.  Is there something to take from any of this?  Nothing that everyone doesn't already know, really, but I'll make this final point.  It's this "Don't talk about politics or religion" attitude, that really holds back the progressive movement at the grassroots level, for a completely nonsensical reason. There are so many facets to a person that one's political side is no cause for cutting any ties.  So why should someone avoid some slight souring, at the expense of letting what one considers misinformation go unquestioned? 
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I thought you were going to tell us how you took your uncle to the woodshed with your new TYT knowhow. WHa happened? Speak up! Your uncle injecting his shite in the middle of a non-political conversation is disrespectful, especially when he knows he's in mixed company (politically speaking). In our family at least, that kind of thing is a green light to lay into someone on politics. If he broaches the subject, he can't complain if you set him straight. Over time, people (including your uncle) will learn not to do it, because that sort of behavior is corrosive to family relationships.

"If you're not worried, you're not paying attention." --Cenk Uygur

by hazmat on 07/23/2008 11:08:20 PM EST


You can't get fired from your family, so I say have at it. Don't be harsh and dismissive about it, but set them straight.

And like Hazmat said, if THEY bring it up  they can't really blame you.

by ihavenobias on 07/23/2008 11:29:20 PM EST

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Starting with non-family members is easier ;)  Because of the family "thing," they will continue to see you as a young pupstart until you are either (a) married with kids of your own (I do not subscribe to this new and abhorrent mating strategy, but others do), or (b) reach about 40 years of age.

It's really difficult to change peoples' minds.  Look at how much effort KenTX puts into it here.  I can count the minds he has changed on the fingers of my amputated hands.  

Since you probably have nothing to lose (or gain), why not mix a little of both religion and politics into the next dinner table discussion.  Something like:  Do you think Jesus would condone preemptive wars that kill upwards of a million innocent civilians as collateral damage?

by desertpear on 07/24/2008 12:15:14 AM EST


The thing about interest being sinful when lending to the poor etc. (Cenk talked about it today, I believe). That could start as just a general greed/society/religion thing you can use to start prying apart those fundamentalist christian conservative fallacies.

by Weapon X on 07/24/2008 12:33:15 AM EST


Power to the people! The Democrats lost the battle of the dinnerplate around the same time the dixiecrats left the party (with LBJ's Great Society, which we know today as the Projects). At the same time however, Nixon, Barry Goldwater, Hugh Hefner, the Rat Pack, everyone from Reagan to Elvis were suiting up for black tie dinners to have dry martinis and discuss politics. It was all the brain child of Yalee William Buckley (not to be confused with William Buckner aka Bill Buckner, goat of redsox nation), it was hip and swinging in an Austin Powers kind of way, ya baby.

The reality is the current revolution has as much if not more to do with 14 year olds writing, filling out, posting and sending memes as it does with Obama's mailing list.
 

by tiggerporn on 07/24/2008 02:55:41 AM EST


I usually end up ticking off a few of the "gifts" that a conservative dominated government has given us over the past 8 years.  Here is a partial list of some of the worst stuff. 

Things have gotten considerably worse in the short time that's passed since I developed this list.   Just pick a few of the worst, memorize them and rattle them off.  The list is fully linked to news articles, usually more than one, so you can read up and learn about each item.  Compare where we are now with where we were when Bush came in.  Even when they refuse to acknowledge it I still see it in their eyes.  It's hard to think about the 1990's without feeling nostalgic about the good ol' days before the U.S. was despised worldwide, there was a budget surplus and the debt was being paid down for the first time in decades.

by bfaul on 07/24/2008 09:41:37 AM EST


I find that the most useful phrase when someone starts with a conversation ender, which is usually the case in these "first jab" scenarios, are the immortal words of Freewheelin' Franklin Freak.

 Ahem...

 "Aw, Eat Shit, Motherfucker!!"

True, it is second to his masterpiece, "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope," but it is very effective, nonetheless. The older relative will take notice of the younger person's perspective. Guaranteed.

 

**Freak Bros. fans (both of you) - it's been out awhile, but I just found a claymation trailer for an upcoming Freak Bros movie that shouldn't be missed. Fat Freddy's Cat alone is worth the price of admission. People who have never heard of the Bros are welcome, also....

by MedfordTim on 07/24/2008 03:20:45 PM EST


I was such a Freak Brothers fan in high school.

by desertpear on 07/24/2008 05:32:47 PM EST

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