Friday Fun Post On Women: Do You Pay For Dinner? Drinks?

Email Print posted by ihavenobias 07/25/2008 12:21:06 PM EST

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The other day Ana was talking about how she once went on a first date with a hot guy who didn't pay for her food: Long story short, there was no second date.

Cenk added that guys shouldn't complain and should always buy dinner (at least on the first date) but also that in his experience, the less you do for a girl the more you get (i.e. don't bother buying tons of drinks and take her to fancy dinners, etc.).

So what do you think? Should a guy always buy dinner and if so, should it be fancy? What about drinks at a bar?

For the record, I'm proud to say that I have never (ever) bought a strange female a drink at a bar or club. On dates, yes, of course, because that makes sense.

And on a dinner date, again, yes of course I've always paid for dinner.

But I'm continually amazed at the number of guys who go out to bars and clubs and waste their time and money buying girls drinks. The way I see it, if you go and talk to her she already knows you're interested, so going that extra step to buy her a drink is over-kill and makes you less likely to get anywhere.

Sure, there are exceptions, but plenty of women know how to flirt and tease or be just friendly enough to keep the martinis flowing with no intention of giving you so much as a handshake, much less a make-out session or phone number (or, well, you know).

Finally for the record, I have had two women (who I didn't know) buy me drinks in my life. One was really cute and one was 'ok'. I chatted briefly with the "ok" one and ended up going to a different bar. The really cute one was a ton of fun.

The point is, having a drink bought for me changed nothing, and if it meant nothing to me I think it means even LESS for women, especially since people buy them drinks all the time. 

IMO, buying drinks turns you into an ATM, not a potential lover.
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Friday Fun Post On Women: Do You Pay For Dinner? Drinks? | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 hidden)
There has to be a happy medium... (none / 0)
I like paying for dinner once in a while. It shows my boyfriend that I don't "need" him to always blow money on our dates. But the first date always leaves a gigantic impression on me.

The first time Ladis and I went out to eat, he took me to this hole in the wall Hawaiian place. It was nothing fancy...trust me. But he paid for it nonetheless...

The number one thing that turned me on about him was the fact that he treated me like a lady. He paid. When our order was called, he didn't let me get up and get the food. He drove us both there and didn't let me drive. He opened the doors for me. It felt good...and it left a lasting impression.

I swear our meals together maybe cost a total of 12 bucks. But I didn't care at all. I just liked the way he treated me throughout the whole process.

Now, I've also been on a date where the guy took me to a place in LA that was extremely expensive. My meal alone was about $150...but I there wasn't a second date because he tried too hard too fast.

And then there was the guy who made me paid for BOTH meals on the first date. No...that won't fly either.

So in summary, doesn't matter where you take her for the first date...just treat her like a lady. And no...a guys should not have to pay for EVERY date. BUT the first date always leaves the lasting impression.

Sorry for the long post ; )

by AnaKasparian on 07/25/2008 12:38:26 PM EST

typos (none / 0)
Ignore the typos in my comment above...I wasn't really paying attention : )

by AnaKasparian on 07/25/2008 12:40:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I reject and denounce you! (none / 0)
How could you not being paying attention to something so important?!

;)

But yeah, of course the guy shouldn't pay for everything on EVERY date, especially in a long term relationship, that'd be crazy.

And based our social norms and customs, most guys can't get away with not paying for the first date. I would never, ever try that.

PS---What about drinks though Ana? Do you agree or disagree with that I said about them?

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 12:48:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Here is the cold hard truth... (none / 1)
....women use men for drinks. That's why my girlfriends never go into a club with money. They know they won't need it.

So yes. You are right.

by AnaKasparian on 07/25/2008 01:00:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yep (none / 0)
Now the question is will all the guys who read this listen, or will they continue to waste their money?

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 01:03:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
the risk is worth it (none / 0)

For a guy to invest $8 on a drink as a first attempt to potentially get laid in the future is not such a bad investment.  Just don't go overboard.  I think it is a nice gesture for either sex to buy a person a drink and we shouldn't overanalyze it.  It's a convenient flirting mechanism.

Totally agree with Ana on first impressions.  

by desertpear on 07/25/2008 02:28:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I respectfully disagree (none / 0)
The first impression if you buy a drink as an icebreaker is that you're willing to give her something without knowing anything about her or without her showing she's interested in any way.

That's a BAD first impression.

You know what a good flirting mechanism is? Being (or pretending to be) confident, walking up and introducing yourself. It's free and she'll respect you more. No cheesy line, just "Hi, I'm (fill in the blank), what's your name"?

Bottom line, if a girl is interested, she'll be interested drink or no drink. An uninterested girl on the other hand will only be nterested in free beverages, not in hooking up with you.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 02:36:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
one-drink max (none / 0)

This "you're willing to give her something without knowing anything about her or without her showing she's interested in any way" is not just an impression, but the truth about men.  Evolutionarily speaking, it makes sense for them to take certain risks in order to get their genes out there.  Men ARE willing to have sex with women they know nothing about and the extent to which they care whether the woman is interested is secondary to whether the disinterested woman might still acquiesce with a little more effort.

One drink is all a man or woman should need to buy.  I think it is friendly.  It has worked for me to have a bartender deliver that first ice-breaker.  Sometimes people are just too dense to understand you are flirting with them, especially men. 

by desertpear on 07/25/2008 02:53:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Women don't need an icebreaker to meet men (none / 0)
They have breasts and vaginas for that.

But I do agree that IF you buy a drink (which I'm fundamentally opposed to) you've GOT to limit it to one drink and one drink only.

Remember, I'm talking about meeting people here, not about dates. If you're on a date, sure, go nuts and buy drinks. Although hopefully if you're past the first date the girl is cool enough to buy a round here and there.

PS---Of COUuuuRSE(!) men are willing to sleep with women they know little about. The risk they can take is the risk of rejection and humilitation, and that risk exists with my method of simply introducing yourself and avoiding drinks and cheesey lines.


Men that realize a good batting average if .300 will be willing to approach several women until they find one that takes the bait. And look, if you buy a drink you may not find out until it's too late whether or not she's talking to you out of politeness or a sense of obligation, and that's a waste of time and money.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 02:58:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
So here's an interesting question (none / 0)
If she takes the bait, what does that mean?

Does it mean you're compelling, or she's desperate, or just looking for some fun, or what?

by jarett on 07/25/2008 04:13:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Are you asking (none / 0)
Are you asking what does it mean if she starts talking to you after you introduce yourself (without buying her a drink or using a cheesy pick-up line)?

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 04:17:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That, yes (none / 0)

by jarett on 07/25/2008 05:17:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nothing or something (none / 0)
My point is that by not buying a drink you eliminate one variable and decrease the chance that your wasting your time. Sure, she could still talk to you just to be friendly or to flirt a little with no intention of anything more (maybe she wants an ego boost and or she has a boyfriend).

At the very least you aren't wasting money.

PS---Always be the one to ends the conversation and the kiss (if you get to that point).

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 05:29:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
From my datin' days (none / 0)

Where do we factor in that drunk girls are bout 3672 times easier to score on than sober girls?

So I say buy em shots. 

Even if it doesn't help you, you are very likely helping some other luckier bastard later.  Men, if we all pay it forward like this we will all be winners.  God Bless America!

by ProfRich on 07/25/2008 03:06:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nah (none / 0)
Let some OTHER guy buy the shots and then *you* reap the benefits.

It's like my philosophy on parties.

Never throw the party yourself, just attend it. You get all of the benefits with none of the clean-up, prep and stress making sure that nothing spills, clogs or breaks and that everyone is having fun.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 03:15:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
quick...back button! (none / 0)
...backs out of this topic.

by jazzchic on 07/25/2008 03:24:17 PM EST

Huh? (none / 0)
What don't you like about the topic?

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 03:45:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
eventually... (none / 0)
I'll actually send a question for Contessa's Corner.

by jazzchic on 07/25/2008 09:42:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Good (none / 0)
They're running low on them it seems. We need more women to weigh in!

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 09:44:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Just CANNOT do it! (none / 0)
"Hi, I'm (fill in the blank), what's your name"?

I won't have to worry about half of this question because I have NEVER been able to do this in a bar.  The overwhelming feeling going through my head is "she's out with her friends, who the hell do you think you are randomly bothering her, you have NO excuse to go up and state your name, rank and serial number" every time.  It is just the most awkward thing I can think of.  I don't know how anyone does it or meets anyone this way.

As for dinner, if I'm taking a girl out, I always pay the first time around at least and then sort of feel the situation out afterwards.  A lot of times I'll pay for dinner and she'll make a show out of saying "nonono, I can pay!" and I'll say "you can buy me coffee later" or something like that.  That seems to be a good defuser if it gets awkward.

by jarett on 07/25/2008 04:11:18 PM EST

I wasted so much time (none / 0)
over-analyzing situations like that.  Nice, intelligent guys fail so often because of analysis paralysis or whatever it's called.

You're THINKING too much. I used to do that, and even worse, I'd have a few drinks to settle down but get to a point where I had drunk TOO much (never made a fool of myself, my self-awareness level is too damn high to allow that to happen) and it got to be too late in the night.

Seriously, you gotta just do it. Go with the batting average analogy, if you talk to 10 girls and 7 reject you you're doing just fine. Who cares? You'll probably never see them again.

I've known a LOT of guys that aren't the best looking, best dressed, most wealthy, but they always get a girl because they're confident (or pretend to be) and persistent.

And honestly, so many times you go to a bar and a cute girl will go home with some chump, and the only reason is because he had the guts to 'plant the flag' first. Yes, women are much more selective and far less likely to hook up with a random guy, but many still do (and hook-up doesn't only mean sleep with BTW, it's all of the bases).

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 04:23:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Exactly (none / 0)

The first part is exactly my view on this.  It's a good thing I somehow stumbled into a secure relationship, because I really don't know how people can do this whole bar/club thing.  It seems tremendously awkward.

by Spencer on 07/25/2008 04:27:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's hard if you over-think it (none / 0)
And you still have to be somewhat selective obviously. I'm not saying that NO thought should be put into it.

I will admit this much, things become much clearer once you're in a secure relationship (like we both are with our GF's).

It's funny going to bars and parties now, because you see the single people eyeing each other, scoping out the scene, flirting, being rejected, being successful, etc.  Very entertaining.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 04:33:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
it's entertaining (none / 0)
For us single people that aren't on the make too.

by desertpear on 07/25/2008 05:16:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
True (none / 0)
But it's easier to relax and enjoy when you're on the bench/retired.

There's no worry that your number could be called to come into the game at a moment's notice.

;)

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 05:30:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Here's the problem (none / 0)
Things DO become clearer once you're in a secure relationship.  Except the problem for me is, once I'm out of it, I LOSE that clarity.  I have a hard time maintaining perspective.

Of course, I've recently become convinced that I'm probably going to be alone for the rest of my life, and have thus sworn off women pretty much forever as I'm tired of being given hope and having it stomped on over and over again.  I keep thinking I should be doing better than this at the age of 29.

by jarett on 07/25/2008 05:33:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No (none / 0)
You can't think that way.  Again, I think because you're intelligent and analytical you over-think it (like I used to).

You need to get in touch with that reptilian part of your brain. Obviously alcohol is the fastest and easiest way to do this, but it's tricky because if you go too far you lose *too much* control.

It's a state of mind, and having that bad attitude will ensure you WILL be alone.

The best thing is to give yourself multiple options. So many guys ruin it for themselves by pinning their hopes on ONE girl they meet. This is where someone completely misunderstands what I'm saying so I need to clarify.

I'm not suggesting you start sleeping with every attractive girl you meet (not that it's that easy obviously). I'm just saying that if you go out, try to get a few numbers and talk to a few girls instead of just ONE.  In the end you sound like you only want ONE to settle down with, but talking to a few won't prevent that and will in fact help ensure it.

Nothing turns a woman off faster than an overzealous, over-eager guy. And nothing creates an overzealous guy more than only having ONE option.


Again, having more options could be just as simple as having one other phone number to call for a potential date in case the first one doesn't work out.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 05:49:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah (none / 0)
My main fear is that I can't trust my judgment.  There's a whole THING behind this, but the long and short of it is that I have discovered that I can't tell if someone is actually into me as much as I think they are or just trying to convince themselves (or me).

by jarett on 07/25/2008 07:04:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Without knowing the whole story (none / 0)
All I can say is that you can't let one bad situation (or 2 or 3) taint your perspective forever.

Yeah, it sucked, but don't beat yourself up over it. The worst thing you can do is analyze and re-analyze it over and over again. That's not the frame of mind you want when trying to meet and date new women.

I know it's easier said than done, but sometimes you need to police your thoughts. If you find yourself thinking about that old situation, recognize what you're doing and stop yourself. Recognize that until you fix the tires on that time traveling DeLorean, you can't change it and you're wasting your time.

Accept it, REALLY accept it and move on. If you made a mistake, don't make it again, but leave everything else in the past where it belongs.

Again, all of this is much easier if you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Don't pin your hopes and desires on ONE girl, try to get a few numbers in a short span of time.  Imagine if you bought ONE firecracker for the 4th of July.

Think about lighting it and watching the wick burn down with anticipation...and THEN (!) nothing.  Plenty of dates will turn out to be a complete dud. But if you have a few firecrackers you won't be so desperate to make sure things work out with the first one.

Again, I'm not being crude and talking about sleeping with a bunch of women at once, I'm just talking about talking, getting numbers and some light dating. I used to think that when you went on a date with someone that you couldn't date anyone else. I don't know where the hell I got that crazy idea (note: dating to me is the initial early stages prior to making a commitment).

Probably from watching too many romantic comedies and sitcoms in the 80's.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 07:19:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It all depends (none / 0)

I think whoever makes the invitation for the date should expect to pay.  As you get further into the relationship, the who pays for what and when should work itself out in a way that's comfortable for both people.

I'm a woman, by the way, and I've never minded paying for a date or sharing the bill.  Fortunately, I've never had the experience of going out with someone who expected that I would be paying anything when I wasn't expecting to have to pay. (hope that made sense)

by pmdtrans on 07/25/2008 07:21:57 PM EST

What (none / 0)
What do you think about guys buying you drinks at bars or clubs?

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 07:26:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't :-) (none / 0)

I've never been one who goes to bars, so I'm not really familiar with that scene.  I suppose it would be flattering at first to have a random stranger buy me a drink, but I don't know how comfortable I'd be with it.  I don't want someone thinking he can buy my attention; I'd rather he just come up and say hello. 

I guess it's nice for the women that can go out to the bars knowing they'll be taken care of by all the men willing to buy them drinks. If it didn't work for the men, they'd stop doing it, right?

Personally, I think it's foolish for men to throw their money away on women who probably aren't interested and have gotten so smug that they don't bother bringing money to the bar.

by pmdtrans on 07/25/2008 09:14:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm not a big drinker (none / 0)
But I did used to go to bars a good amount when I was single. 

Always HATED clubs though. IME, the people were worse, plus it's harder to meet people with loud, obnoxious music thumping in the background.  Plus cover charges and expensive drinks are never good.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 09:16:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm an old-fashioned girl (none / 0)
I met my husband on the internet.  :-)

by pmdtrans on 07/25/2008 09:54:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Funny (none / 0)
I met Cheryl that way too, but not on Match.com or anything like that.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 10:06:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Me either (none / 0)
I met him through a music mailing list we were both on.  We had a lot of couples start, and several who married, via that list, actually.  Turned into quite the pick-up joint.  I guess because we all started out with something in common.

by pmdtrans on 07/25/2008 11:05:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That makes sense (none / 0)
I expect more and more people will meet online in the future.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 11:07:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
So do I (none / 0)

It's a good thing, this internet.  I don't know how close you lived to your wife when you met her, but I wouldn't have met my husband without the net.  We were literally an ocean apart. 

Now that I think about it, most of my friends my age or younger met their current loves on the net, and were/are long distance at the beginning.  

Glad this was just a Friday Fun Post, since we've veered way off-topic. hehe 

by pmdtrans on 07/26/2008 01:04:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Girlfriend (none / 0)
not wife yet.

:)

by ihavenobias on 07/26/2008 10:46:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Match.com and OKCupid (none / 0)
have been complete, utter disasters for me.  One of these days I will take you out for a beer in Wicker Park and explain to you how I found myself on the absolutely WORST date of my life, to the point that I was literally calling a friend of mine and requesting extraction.

by jarett on 07/25/2008 11:54:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That sounds like fun (none / 0)
BTW, I met Cheryl on Myspace, before Myspace became super huge.


This was back when you could look at someones profile and pics without sending them a friend request (which largely defeats the point and is obnoxious although I realize there are creeps online).


Myspace is damn near useless for meeting new people now. How do you know you might want to talk to someone more if you can't see their interests and or what they look like? 

by ihavenobias on 07/26/2008 12:06:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
OKC (none / 0)
That sucks. I've actually had a lot of fun with people from OKC. But then I haven't been doing the dating thing so much- just the get-togethers and 'friend' percentages.

by jazzchic on 07/26/2008 06:53:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dinner? (none / 0)
You mean those stale pretzel thingy majiggies on the bar?  Sure, have it nancy.  Don't worry I'm not that cold just lately I've been meeting "eligibles" through friends or out on the town. 

In regards to buying drinks as a pick up measure, I decline.  Then again, if I go out with friends or meet someone at the bars ahead of time, I'll buy drinks, but it's always nice to get some bought for you too.  Currently my party spirit is pretty low, so who knows I might succumb to the dating scene again.   

by rev24 on 07/25/2008 08:20:47 PM EST

Buying for friends (none / 0)
Yeah of course, but that's different.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 08:24:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
i'll pay for everything... (none / 0)
http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI


by Bungle on 07/25/2008 11:06:13 PM EST

I have no real experience with RPG's (none / 0)
But I did used to read comics.

by ihavenobias on 07/25/2008 11:08:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Also, re: the third hour today (?) (none / 0)
My huge crush on Rachel Sklar (who is totally hot as Cenk and Ana mentioned) has actually been somewhat dampened by the revelation that she takes things WAAAAAAAY too seriously.

Come on, Rachel.  You know Cenk.  You're gonna take all the goofy things he says seriously?

Sigh.

by jarett on 07/26/2008 02:55:35 AM EST

Since we're talking about hot guests (none / 0)
What about Liliana Segura (who was on Meet the Bloggers last week and on TYT a few times before)?  I think she's beautiful.

by Spencer on 07/26/2008 03:41:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I can't remember (none / 0)
so for now I'll have to take your word for it.

by ihavenobias on 07/26/2008 10:51:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
sure to segura! (none / 0)
You have good taste Spencer - Liliana's hot!

by rev24 on 07/26/2008 04:39:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I almost never listen live (none / 0)
so I haven't heard that yet.

But now I'm intrigued.

by ihavenobias on 07/26/2008 10:50:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I guess I'm strange (none / 0)

I never expected a guy to buy me drinks OR dinner.  In fact it always weirded me out if a guy offered to buy one as a way of introducing himself.  It made me feel obligated to at least give him a try even if I didn't want to.  So I always refused.  I always paid my own way.

Once a relationship was established, the guy and I would generally split the costs on a fairly casual basis.  Whoever had money paid!  

I just always hated the idea of being "paid for".  No matter how it happened it made me feel like I was selling myself for bucks.

Eh, maybe I was too uptight about that stuff back then, but it worked out well enough for me.  :) 

by blueheartinaredstate on 07/26/2008 02:26:19 PM EST

No (none / 0)

My answer to your question is a resounding NO. To me, a date is a mutual event. This means that I don't owe my date anything except my fascinating company and scintillating conversation (hah). And I also don't expect anything else from the other person.

Too many men, especially, assume that paying for a woman's drink or dinner is tantamount to pre-paying for sex. I don't want anyone's money - I want the pleasure of their company. Sex comes later rather than sooner; otherwise it turns into a pretty boring relationship.

by Verified1 on 07/26/2008 06:47:38 PM EST

Friday Fun Post On Women: Do You Pay For Dinner? Drinks? | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 hidden)
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