Arming Mickey Mouse

Email Print posted by callisto 07/08/2008 06:11:33 PM EST

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http://www.mccunt.org/blog/ arming-mickey-mouse.html

"If you thought the NRA would lay low for a while, you’ve been sadly mistaken.

A week after the stupid conservative Supreme Court decision on gun control, the NRA wants employees to be able to bring guns to Disney World Florida. This comes of course after they want guns allowed at airports, these guys don’t know any rational middle ground, they’ll swing to the extreme faster than you can say ‘Mickey Mouse’.


To summarize: an employer can force you to wear certain clothes to work, but not prohibid guns on it’s private property.
Maybe this will break the Republican Party in 2 camps: gun nuts vs corporate Repugs."

< Cenkisms and TYT sayings | McCain pulling facts out of his ass >
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Arming Mickey Mouse | 50 comments (50 topical, 0 hidden)
How much crime occurs in that theme park? (none / 0)
Doesn't the high cost (of everything there) essentially price out most crime?

by ihavenobias on 07/08/2008 06:43:48 PM EST

Watch the video (none / 0)
they give an example from Kentucky where a man got angry during the day, after work went to get his gun in car and killed 5 co-workers

+ isn't it Disney's right to decide what can be brought in on their private property?

by callisto on 07/08/2008 06:49:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm not disagreeing with you (none / 0)
The (questionable IMO) counter-argument is that if all of that guy's coworkers had guns they'd have shot him before he managed to kill give people.

I laugh at this idea that gun nuts have (and yes, not everyone who owns a gun is not necessarily a gun nut so I *am* making a distinction here).  They watch way too many Charles Bronson, Dirty Harry movies and think that you become a sharp-shooting bad-ass vigilante as soon as you pick up a gun.

They act as though even hours spent at the shooting range equips them to be Rambo in a real life situation with moving targets, an armed opponent, hormones and brain chemicals off the charts and real lives at risk.

It's a joke. Even professionals make mistakes or freeze under pressure, and we're expecting the average Joe and Jane to be like this?

by ihavenobias on 07/08/2008 07:11:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Guessed as much... (none / 0)
... just trying to counter as much statements without smilies as possible, so rightwingers might not use it as an arguement

especially since someone stated in a different thread "why would anyone be against a missile shield" (shield would be on foreign territory where people are against it) I mean, did they not get the cold war lesson when they were 12?

by callisto on 07/08/2008 07:39:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
also (none / 0)
"The (questionable IMO) counter-argument is that if all of that guy's coworkers had guns they'd have shot him before he managed to kill give people"

I agree and also how will that help when the shooter doesn't act as in a movie by making statements, but just walks in and starts shooting, he has the element of surprise, nothing you can do about that

by callisto on 07/08/2008 08:55:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Right on (none / 0)
how will that help when the shooter doesn't act as in a movie by making statements, but just walks in and starts shooting, he has the element of surprise, nothing you can do about that

Exactly there is very little you can do...and stupid rules about guns in car sure as hell arn't going to stop him:

Lets see i was going to kill my asshole boss and that bitch receptionist today, but my stupid work as a rule against guns at work and I don't want to get fired...I guess i'll just go get a cup of coffe instead...


by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 09:07:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
might wanna watch the video (none / 0)
and listen to the Kentucky case

by callisto on 07/08/2008 09:11:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
car as extention of home (none / 0)
I think the best argument was that your car is basically an extension of your home (and for some people it is their home).  I think the logical solution to this problem is to simply pass a law that states that your car, no matter where it is parked is your property and every law that applies to your home (with the possibly exception of open container) applies to your vehicle. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 09:37:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
extension of home? (none / 0)
even if I would go along with the claim that your car is an extension of your home, why discriminate? I mean wouldn't the same apply to boats, motorcycles, ... even bicycles 

on a side note, applying the same laws to cars is insane, no way that can comply to safety laws, also why can't I not be naked in my car then? :)

also you own the ground the house stands on, you don't own the roads etc that the car drives on

by callisto on 07/08/2008 09:43:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What I want to know is how they knew he had a gun (none / 0)
As of July 1st, in Florida, you can bring your gun to work...and leave it in your car. (Bill)

Disney and other companies fought for a loophole that they are now trying to use. Your gun in the parking lot might accidentally set off the fireworks.

Disney says that language in the bill creates exceptions for companies who manufacture, use, store or transport explosives that are regulated under federal law; Disney falls into this category due to the fireworks it uses. This allows Disney to ban hand guns in all their properties except for the Vero Beach Resort, Disney Cruise Line's crew parking lot and a few other properties around Florida.

...

Universal Studios Orlando is using a different loophole to ban firearms while SeaWorld Orlando `continues to support the rights of its employees or visitors to transport legal firearms in their cars' spokeswoman Becca Bides said.

I still wonder how, right after it became legal to carry a gun to work, did Disney know this guy had a gun in his car? Was he just being an asshat...

by jazzchic on 07/08/2008 08:26:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
This was their excuse? (none / 0)
"Your gun in the parking lot might accidentally set off the fireworks."

I guess this shows what powerful corporations can get away with in America.  I think we need mythbusters on this one.  Can anyone think of any conceivable way that a gun in a car could set off fireworks stored far away?  Why didn't they just go with the car could spontaneiously combust causing the gun to go off and kill an innocent employee (for those wondering "cook-off" temperatures for most ammunition are well over 200F and usually around 300F, well hotter than a car sitting in the sun could ever get).  That is about a billion times more likely than it setting off fireworks. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 08:43:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
euh... (none / 0)
Republicans made these laws, Disney and company lobbied them about this and they gave it to them

so all pro-gun Repugs should be angry with pro-business Repugs

I mean Disney isn't exactly know to be a liberal company

by callisto on 07/08/2008 08:48:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
While we are talking odds (none / 0)
What are the odds you are gonna need that gun in your car while on the way to, or at work?

by ProfRich on 07/08/2008 10:03:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Personal property (none / 0)
What the hell business is it of your employer what the hell you have in your own car!  What are we in high school?  This is fucking ridiculous!  Yes they should be able to regulate what you have on your person at work, but that have no business searching your personal property (car).  Either way Disney is breaking the law as the representatives of the people of florida just passed a law stating that your employer cannot stop you from having a gun in your own car. 

I bet you also think this girl got what she deserved!

http://www.azcentral.com/ar izonarepublic/local/article s/1029shoot1029.html

A 17year old olympic hopeful trap shooter was suspended because she was running late for school and forgot that she had 2 unopened boxes of shotgun shells (no gun mind you) in the trunk of her SUV. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 08:25:23 PM EST

Disney's loophole. (none / 0)
But your gun in the car way out there....
might set off the fireworks way over here!

by jazzchic on 07/08/2008 08:27:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No reason to suspend her (none / 0)
That's ridiculous. 

And I agree you can't have people searching your car.  With that said, I REALLY don't want people having guns in the office or walking around the theme park.

by ihavenobias on 07/08/2008 08:34:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Reasonable (none / 0)
I think it is reasonable to restrict firearms in the theme park, which always has been been the case and no one is questioning.  There is a big difference between having a gun locked in your own car in a 50 square mile parking lot, and carrying it around a theme park full of children. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 08:49:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
but what about the chiiiiiildren (none / 0)
1. those kids are also walking around the parking lot
2. why not park that car on the street
3. why even leave a gun in a car? so easy to steal

+ why would you even want to, so you can defend yourself from traffic cops or is there an insane wave of car hold ups?

by callisto on 07/08/2008 08:53:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What street? (none / 0)
Are we still talking about Disney World? The property is something like 27,400 acres. There's no streets to park on and actually get to work. Hell, it is a long drive just to get to the parking lot (for any of the parks) from a public street- and none of those you can park on.

by jazzchic on 07/08/2008 09:10:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
ways to solve this (none / 0)
then demand parking spots on public streets and a shuttle bus that drives you to where you need to be

by callisto on 07/08/2008 09:12:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
..right (none / 0)
This is the state that voted for a bullet train before we voted against it.

I love Florida, but urban planning is a disaster here. And will continue to be until someone restrains developers.

Actually at certain WDW parks they have employee parking away from the guest parking that you take a tram to Costuming to get your costume (uniform) and then you are off to work. Just not all the parks are set up like this...but they do all have employee parking lots that are seperate from the guest parking.

by jazzchic on 07/08/2008 09:16:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
carjacking (none / 0)
ever heard of carjacking...

1)are kids frequently breaking into locked cars and locked glove compartments?

2)you clearly have never been to disney...like I said they own everything and you have to drive like 5 miles on their property just to get to the parking lot.  Not really an option. 

3)Carjacking

between 1993 and 2002 the US averaged 38,000 carjackings a year. 

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bj s/pub/pdf/c02.pdf

Also, who is to say said person will go straight to or from work.  Maybe just maybe their work is close to the shooting range and they want to blow off some steam after work (I have actually broken this rule at my old job for this exact purpose).  Are you trying to say they should have to waste fuel and make global warming worse by making a special trip home to get their guns. 

Face it there is really no good reason for this rule other than people are scared to death of guns and somehow think that the mere existance of them causes people to spontaneously die.  This guy is way more likely to kill someone with his car on his way too or from work than for anyone to die because he had a gun locked in the car. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 09:26:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Seriously though (none / 0)
How many gun owners think this is a realistic situation? Far too many for my taste.

That does NOT mean I think most of them do BTW.  But it's obnoxious and crazy when people talk about how much safer we'd all be with guns around.

Note: The point above has nothing to do with guns being legal or illegal. It's just about the idea that people buy into the glorified, Hollywood version of what happens when you encounter some street thugs, etc (that people buy into).

by ihavenobias on 07/08/2008 09:48:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
might wanna read all the words... (none / 0)
if you park that car on their property, than it's their business, nobody makes employees park their care on the Disney parking lot

if they want to bring a gun, fine, park your car off Disney private property


about the girl in that story: wow, a 4 day suspension, who f-ing cares, big deal

by callisto on 07/08/2008 08:35:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ever been to Orlando? (none / 0)
have you ever been to orlando?  I used to live there and Disney owns like 25% of the property in the entire city!  Its not like you can just park across the street at the wal-mart...

What it really comes down to is individual rights vs. corporate rights.  It is obvious which side you fall on.  Anyone want to guess if they got a search warrant for his car?  With the power of many corporations approaching that of some states i think it is time we pass a law applying the bill of rights to corporations or at least pass a "workers bill of rights" bill. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 09:01:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No (none / 0)
maybe it's time then for people to demand public parking spaces

look if you want to go that route, fine, but then you have to hold that line, like making it illegal for companies to enforce a dress code for instance

by callisto on 07/08/2008 09:09:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If you prefer individual rights over corporate (none / 0)
You must really hate the Republicans, huh?

by ProfRich on 07/08/2008 10:07:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Exactly Rich (none / 0)
Exactly.

by ihavenobias on 07/08/2008 10:14:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
KenTX challenges you with a quiz. (none / 0)
DC v Heller was not merely about the simple matter of a DC gun law. Rather it was an historic Supreme Court case that will alter the course of constitutional law for the next 200 years.

The majority ruled that the Bill of Rights protects the rights of the individuals against oppression from government. They said that individual freedoms like free speech and a warm gun cannot be abridged by liberal lawmakers who attempt to create laws that allow the government to control the people.

The liberal minority on the Court dissented, by claiming that the Bill of Rights, in fact, guarantees no fundamental right of liberty for individuals.

Did you get that? THE CASE WAS ABOUT INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND CIVIL LIBERTIES.

A quick survey of TYT participants indicates the prevailing level of concern for the concept of individual liberty.

Zippy said he doesn’t give a damn about Mookie’s right to carry a gun, but he remains passionately concerned about the constitutional rights of foreigners who have never set foot on American soil.

ProfRich proudly admits he doesn’t give a tinker’s dam about the Second Amendment or individual rights. He just wants to focus on the all important Democrat socialist issue of redistribution of wealth. I gotta hand it to the Rich, he is very honest.

Callisto says that even though he lives in Spain (or wherever, who gives a fukk where he lives), he wants to make sure that Americans have as little freedom and individual liberty as possible, because those dangerous concepts might become globally contagious.

Mookie says he will vote for Obama, because he wants more appointments of Supreme Court Justices who will do everything possible to take all of his rights away from him.

Twba says that Madison and Jefferson weren’t joking when they wrote the Constitution. Twba thinks personal freedom and individual liberty are nice things to have.

Of the five people quoted above, guess which one is the biggest fool?

by KenTX on 07/08/2008 11:15:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Metagaming (none / 0)

I will assume you mean me since you took the trouble of ascribing beliefs to me I have never actually espoused.

Why make shit up if you aren't going to use it, I say.

by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 12:23:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
no rich (none / 0)
I’m upbraiding my young protégé. Just stand back and watch.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 12:56:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
When the (none / 0)

fuck did I say this.


"Zippy said he doesn’t give a damn about Mookie’s right to carry a gun,...."

If you start from the beginning of the thread you will find that I do support my right, Mookie's right and your dumb ass right to not only own a firearm but also to privacy as stated in the constitution.

You want to give the government the right to listen to your phone calls and other personal communications with out a warrant in exchange for a tax break then that is your business. However, don't be surprised when they come knocking at your door looking for your gun.

Ken the libertarian my ass. You wouldn't know a libertarian if you fell over one. 

 

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 12:25:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fairly true (none / 1)
"Ken the libertarian my ass. You wouldn't know a libertarian if you fell over one. "

The main freedoms Ken cares about are the freedom for oil companies to destroy any environment as long as there's oil under it and the freedom for the US government to kill whoever it deems a threat by whatever means necessary.  Followed of course by the "freedom" to pay as few taxes as possible. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/09/2008 12:34:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Here's where I stand. (none / 0)
liberty
How about you, Mookie? Where do you stand? Are you all talk, just like Zippy? Or do you really believe in freedom?

A totally free society is rife with inequity. The cream is allowed to rise to the top, and that's the way I like it.

People who can't compete need as much government control as possible. They need the government to take from the producers, and redistribute to the non-producers. And since the 80/20 rule also applies to the non-producer/producer ratio, it places a very heavy burden on the people pulling the wagon, to the benefit of the people riding in the wagon.

You think you care about gun rights? Wait until you starting yanking down $300,000 per year, and writing a $100,000 check to Uncle Sam just for federal income tax. Wait until you are forced to pay payroll tax on the entire $300,000 (thanks to Barack Obama), even though you are providing social security and medicare benefits for everybody else except yourself. Wait until your state income taxes and property taxes go through the fukking roof.

When you start writing huge tax checks, and noticing that you are keeping very little of the income that you produce, you are really gonna be pissed. By that time, you won't be able to find me when you're ready to give me your heartfelt apology.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 12:54:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Your test (none / 0)

is both logically and mathematically flawed. Both myself and Mookie could explain it to you but it would be a waste of our time.

Also, I could take that test for you and back my answers up with your own quotes and you are much closer to Bobo country then you would like to believe.

Sorry Ken, you are not a true Goldwater conservative nor are you a conservative at all. You love big government as long as you don't have to pay for it.

You are now officially a Bush Republican. Enjoy your liberties being trampled on and enjoy your tax breaks while they last.

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 01:28:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
take the test yourself (none / 0)
It's quick and easy. Everyone else has done it. We're not afraid.

You don't need to answer for me. Answer for yourself.

What are you afraid of?

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 01:36:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Take it for (none / 0)

me. The original quiz that you love to post. The new one that Mookie introduced is a little more thorough but binary in nature.

Use my own quotes to back your answers up and then I will explain to a simpleton like yourself how it is flawed.

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 01:45:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't have to. (none / 0)
You're a liberal. How in the name of god you ever voted Republican is inconceivable.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 02:02:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]
What (none / 0)

I could not vote for Republicans because I don't like the idea that our government could be listening to my phone call with out a warrant?

What a novel concept Ken. Try again. 

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 02:19:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ahh (none / 0)

That is Ken running away from another challenge again.

He likes to tell me all about who I am.

"Remember when you tried to find your car in the parking lot, and you couldn’t see it between the dozens of SUVs that were hiding your poor little car?"

Do you want me to tell you why there is an SUV parked in my driveway? Well, OK. Living in a place where you get an average of 150" of snow a year a 4 wheel drive SUV makes sense. Wouldn't make sense to you but if you like winter sports like skiing and snowmobiling I live in a paradise.

You want to tell me more about myself? Because you obviously know nothing about me but I got you pegged daddy's boy.

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 04:18:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Cream rising to the top? (none / 0)

Is Bush an example of that cream?

Great argument! 

Y'know until reality comes tracking shit all over it.

by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 10:26:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
pretty spot on (none / 0)

by desertpear on 07/09/2008 02:23:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
there's a mouse in my pocket (none / 0)
"..privacy as stated in the constitution. You want to give the government the right to listen to your phone calls and other personal communications with out a warrant."

I think the Fourth Amendment is great for all U.S. citizens, but I'm not in favor of extending the right to extra-territorial foreign nationals. They're not citizens.

Whenever I encounter someone like you, who is absolutely obssessed with the Fourth Amendment, it means you are breaking laws, and you don't want to get caught. You're either up to your neck in illegal drugs, or NMBLA, or both, and it's only a matter of time.

By contrast, I don't sweat the Fourth Amendment because I'm not breaking any laws. I don't even think about search and seizure. Search me. I don't care.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 01:59:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yea, yea, yea (none / 0)

I'm not breaking any laws.

"By contrast, I don't sweat the Fourth Amendment because I'm not breaking any laws. I don't even think about search and seizure. Search me. I don't care."

You are not breaking any laws, yet,

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That is what one of the most important founding fathers, Ben Franklin, was talking about.

It is pointless to discuss this with a simpleton like you.  Enjoy your precious tax breaks Ken and listen for the clicking sound on your phone because if you hear it, hang up.

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 02:11:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Again not knowing the facts (none / 0)
like they would say in England: I don't live in Spain, you twat, that's Jaime :)

also whole of Western-Europe, Northern-Europe and Canada score better on freedom than the US, US is at the level of Spain, Italy, ... when it comes to freedom (read the UN numbers, Newsweek adds them up each year for you, oh that's an American magazine btw)

the only individual right you seem interest in is the one to carry your gun

btw do you really believe those things you wrote? btw just to check if any reality is coming through: what color is the sky most of the time?

you do realize that on most issues the majority of Americans is against you, right?
latest poll said that given the choice between gun laws (making sure the crazies don't get the guns, as is now the case) and absolute freedom, they choose 60-something% to 29% for gun laws

by callisto on 07/09/2008 05:27:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Democrats suck too (none / 0)
your problem rich is you refuse to accpet that the democrats are almost as bad as the republicans on fucking with individual liberty (they just fuck with liberty you don't care about like guns, video games, automated law enforcement and economic liberty)...

Remember how Hillary was so excited about cracking down on cartoon sex in video games?  This is the sort of shit that makes liberals look about as smart as the christian right..."But we have to protect the pooooor children!"  Give me a break!

http://blog.wired.com/27bst roke6/2007/12/clinton-would -c.html

The fact that democrats have no problem censoring speach and trying to destroy the second amendment and I'm still possibly willing to vote for them says a hell of a lot about how shitty the Republicans have gotten, but don't think for a second its an endorsement of those policies.   

by alphasigmookie on 07/08/2008 11:33:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Slow down, Alpha (none / 1)

Who ever said I love the Dems?  They drive me crazy too.  I just accept reality and reality is in this binary system, they are the better choice.  Rarely do the Democratic Parties views represent my views, they are just the preferrable option.


by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 12:12:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Here, here (none / 0)
You have to play the cards you are dealt and right now the big government republicans are more scary than anything I have seen in my lifetime.

by z1p101 on 07/09/2008 02:31:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Moving To A Country With Gun Control (none / 0)
Does anyone know an area of the UK that is affordable and doesn't smell like cat pee (read London)? You will all be welcome to join us when we move. Well, I'll be honest, I'm a little worried about neo and bobo but we'll try to find a little bunk space for them in the garage.

by Verified1 on 07/09/2008 05:20:05 AM EST

Why UK? (none / 0)
I know they speak English (kinda :), but they have the worst food in Europe, follow America in any war, have cameras everwhere, tend to be the lowest common denominator, highest teen pregnancy in Europe, ... (they truely do not represent Europe, they represent Britain, nothing more)

that being said have gotten drunk with a lot of English and that's fun, although very loud :)

by callisto on 07/09/2008 05:45:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Arming Mickey Mouse | 50 comments (50 topical, 0 hidden)
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