Cenk's Rant Was So Wrong

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Cenk definitely has passion and usually that is great, but man sometimes it means we have to listen to a rant like tonight's which is just plain wrong.

Cenk's attack on Obama over Iraq was 100% wrong. Thats all there is to it.

I miss Ben being a regular host on the show, but never so much as tonight when Cenk went on and on and was almost completely wrong. Cenk is great, and I love the Young Turks, but sometimes I wish they had time for listeners to call in, so we can pull him back when he goes off the rail.

This weekend when the media was going nuts over Obama's so called flip-flop, I went back and checked with a Lexus Nexus search, and found that Barak Obama had said nearly the exact thing about Iraq on 22 different occasions over the last 8 months. I read every debate, and Cenk is remembering the debate completely wrong. There was no flip-flop accept in the minds of Republicans and reporters way too primed by Right-wing talking points. Obama was always careful to say that he would take into account the facts on the ground, and adapt as necessary. In fact he held this up as a counter to Bush, who never takes into account facts on the ground.

The Iraq debate should not focus on 16 months as much as what the President will do on the first day, and even in the so called "flip flop" he spoke about meeting with commanders on his very first day, and starting the process of ending the war.

This is where Cenk is most wrong, and Obama was very clear today. He and he alone is the only candidate that is going to end the occupation of Iraq.

Now Cenk is right about Obama and FISA. Obama is completely wrong on this, and completely missing an opportunity to show leadership. Could you imagine if he had actually fillibustered the FISA bill? With his speaking skills, he could have made history. No one in 50 years is going to remember his flip-flop beyond that the Democrats as a whole caved, but if he had stood tall he would have been compared to Jimmy Stewarts character in "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" and it would have been talked about for years and years.

The filibuster is the one way that a Senator can truly show leadership and stand out. Obama made such a huge mistake on FISA.
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I agree that we need Ben (or Wes or Jill) back to counter Cenk. He's a great host, but balance is not his strong suit...

Ive already commented on the last thread about why the media is talking about the Iraq "Flip Flop", but I would like to take the time to maybe hypothesize on both Cenks motivation and the overall picture of Obama's character...

1. Cenk is a radio host - he is looking for 2 things - advertisers and audience. I am so glad that TYT is back on XM coming next week, but please do not be alarmed if the tone and the direction of the show makes some changes. Now Producer Dave and I disagreed on the live chat about this today, but Cenk will have to modify the content/sway of the show to suit a more centrist audience on XM. Granted, plenty of the regulars and members here on the website are looking forward to the XM show (as am I), but please do not be fooled as to what is going to happen - the show, just like senator Obama, is gonna start shifting to attract advertisers and broader audiences. This is not a bad thing!!! Its gonna piss off some of the true Lefties, but the true lefties dont hold the real power in radio, do they?

2. Senator Obama is just now discovering what the words "Character Assassination" really mean. It started of with the ridiculous accusations such as "Hes a Muslim" and "He wont say the Pledge" Stupid. Yes. Correct. NO. Does it matter - not really, and here is why -

Obama came to this race as a nobody - his character and essence has not truly been defined to the general electorate - now, with the willing corporate accomplices in the media, a broader picture of Obama is being constructed - Untrustworthy, liar, flip flopper, has no foundation or core beliefs, Liberal etc. etc.
Now I am not going to argue the merits of these arguments about his individual character (especially not here with this crowd), but the ball has begun to roll - The template has been set and now all there is to do is to complete the picture...

Its not right, its not fair, but quite frankly neither is life in politics. Obama is not immune like McCain is to these unfounded attacks because he doesnt have the track record or the fallback that McCain has. Plus, Obama is going to cost corporate America a fortune, and they are not real happy with that prospect!


Add in to the mix that hes a minority, and you have now introduced a whole new aspect to this game. That shoe has yet to really drop, but its coming, you can count on it...

So Cenk today had reason today to rant about this issue. Obama's lack of leadership on the FISA bill has opened up this whole can of worms about "untrustworthy and inexperienced" up to the MSM, and they're baiting their hooks with them...

Thanks for your comments...

:)

by bobo1 on 07/09/2008 01:49:46 AM EST


Cenk is going to move to the center?  I can't really imagine Cenk changing his personality to attract advertisers.  Say it ain't so! 

Bobo, you are making some sense tonight.  I think you would like Lakoff's article I linked to in the other thread, because what Lakoff talks about is the perception of Obama's shifts, whether they are real or not, and how that affects the voters.  

by desertpear on 07/09/2008 02:06:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I dont think Cenk himself ideologically will move more to the right/center (I honestly think he's more centrist than he lets on to be), but the show will almost have to in order to compete on mainstream radio -"Kool Aid" drinking Cenk is gonna go bye bye for a few months... Advertisers wont support 100% Leftist Radio, i dont care which channle its on! As for Lakoff, I did venture into the reading from his last appearance on the show, he does make sense, but he thinks and speaks at a level that most people dont bother trying to understand - His point was correct, but he's too damn brainy to benefit anyone else! Like i said - the Truth doesn't matter, and 70-80% of bloggers here want to argue truth... Politics is perception and distortion and advertising - skills that on the surface are below "studious academic" discussions... Thanks again for your kind words... :)

by bobo1 on 07/09/2008 02:13:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I agree Lakoff's last appearance was a little "out there," because it is hard to really explain state-of-the-art neuroscience in an interview, but this particular column of his was very approachable and lucid.

I see your point about bloggers wanting to argue the truth.  But I do honestly think there is some benefit to it, even if it doesn't change anything in the near term.  Inching the debate forward and finding common ground with the people who are most unlike us is difficult work, but don't you think it has a little value?  And yet your average voter votes on who they would most like to have a beer with. 

Most retarded headline of the day?  Dog owners prefer McCain.  That is what the general public wants I guess.  Obama could probably make a big bump in the polls if he adopted a dog for his kids now instead of when he gets in the White House.  

by desertpear on 07/09/2008 02:37:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]

It's a good thing tomorrow is Bensday.

On your point about XM:  Complete and utter bullshit.  Cenk didn't change his opinion to a more moderate one at all.  He feels like Obama changed his so he was ranting accordingly.  Also, Hartmann, Maddow, Randi, Schultz, Miller, etc. are all MORE liberal than Cenk, yet they're all on XM (and terrestrial) and appeal to pretty large audiences (at least for liberal radio as it is now), so why would he feel like he even needed to change?

by Spencer on 07/09/2008 02:08:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]

 

...or he would realize the silliness of his words. The show is so much tamer now than then, I'd like to see it gain some of it's bodaciousness back.

 I can't wait to hear Cenk do a Tahiti Village commercial with Rosanne or Tanya Roberts! If they get a GM account, they'll give him free cars to drive.

The XM slot will be what the Turks want ot to be - not what some consultant thinks would skew better. 

by MedfordTim on 07/09/2008 03:55:37 AM EST

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I wasn't here for the Sirius show, but you cannot deny the shift from the AAR show to the internet only version. What I am suggesting is that we are going to see a similar shift back to more of what the shows tone was back on AAR. Whether that's good or not is up to the listener. BTW - if Cenk does Tahiti Village or GM commercials I am gone - "Rebel Headquarters" my ass... I think the new "commercials" they play now are forced and contrived! But hey, if it means good things overall for the show, more power to them!!! :)

by bobo1 on 07/09/2008 10:37:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Frankly I thought the show shifted fairly far to the left when the went to AAR, so a slight shift back towards the center where they were on Sirius when I first started listening would not be unexpected or disapointing. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/09/2008 03:00:11 PM EST

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I started listening right before they went to AAR (via the website recommended by a friend). It was one of my first forays into Left-Radio. I think the show had shifted dramtically left after they went internet only, so naturally it should probably shift back a little more center as the participant numbers grow. Cenk might not have shifted personally, but the tone and blogs/chat definitely has gone way left. Maybe this shifting now is one of those "refinement" periods! :)

by bobo1 on 07/09/2008 03:09:25 PM EST

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Is almost certainly due to the increased interest of the left as they look to be doing well in the impending election.

by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 03:49:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If and when Obama is elected president, the following events will occur:

1. There will be no prosecution of former Bush Administration officials. Zero. Zip. Nada. The reason is retribution. If Democrats try to impose witch trials, Republicans will retaliate and imprison your favorite politician until he is finally pardoned and released in the year 2033 by the next elected Democrat president.

2. There will be no precipitous withdrawal from Iraq, just as there will be no precipitous withdrawal from Afghanistan. We have a powerful, expensive military. If we don't use force to battle al Qaeda, why do we have a military?

3. There will be enormous tax increases that will even make Democrats shudder.

4. There will be four years of hell that make the Jimmy Carter years of 1977-1980 look like sunshine and roses.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 02:22:24 AM EST


There may not be prosecution of former Bush Administration officials, but there should be, they broke the law. And they didn't do it for any high minded principles.

There will be a withdrawal from Iraq, there is no choice, the military can not maintain current levels and the Iraqis don't want us. There will be no withdrawal from Afghanistan, there will actually be an increase, which Obama has been calling for, and where we should have been focused all along.

The military is only one tool to use against al Qaeda, and should never have been the primary one. That most conservative leadership never served in the military is one reason they are so mistaken about this. The military has its place in taking down al Qaeda, but not in the way Bush or John McCain use them.

There will be tax increases, because we have to have some. The United States can no longer afford to live on credit. The debt load we are placing on our children and grand children is too large. The weakness of the US dollar is directly related to size of our debt, and the increasing deficits that Republicans continue to run. 

The infastructure of the US is in bad shape, and quite frankly growing out of date. John McCain and Republicans have no plans for this, and hiding from the reality of the need for tax increases is just plain stupid.

And anyone who claims Jimmy Carter's four years were hell, didn't bother to do any research, and is just reading John McCain talking points.

Heck if we had listened to Carter, we would not be so addicted to oil, would not be getting gouged at the gas pump, and not so reliant on foreigners holding our debt. Yes Carter was forced to deal with the after affects of the Oil Crisis, world stagflation, and the debt incurred by the Viet Nam war. All things that Republicans would not have and still do not have answers for. Though the only thing that you are truly talking about is the Iran Hostage crisis, which we now know that Republicans interferred with, so Carter would not look like a hero.

Conservatives... Bad for America, bad for the world.
 

by jrolsen on 07/09/2008 09:50:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I agree with 1.

2 is well within the realm of possibility.

3 and 4 are inane conservative drivel.

So, Swami Ken, tell us what will happen when Grampa Death becomes president?

Free bubble-ubb and rainbow stew?

by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 11:33:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I can't resist.

There will be no McCain presidency, unless he does something bold, like put Hillary on the ticket and run the campaign as the "Centrist Party". In that case, it might be better if Democrats win in 2008, and Republicans can start working on 2010.

El Rushbo and I are looking forward to going on offense, after eight years on defense.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 05:30:09 PM EST

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Rush has to be LOVING IT!  He can't wait for Obama to win...nothing is better for "conservative" talk radio than a Democratic president.  In many ways he has to love Bush's incompetence which has helped make him nearly a billionare (as you recently pointed out) since he has handed the power back to the Democrats as of 2006. 

by alphasigmookie on 07/09/2008 07:18:22 PM EST

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Agreed jrolsen. You said it all very well. I usually agree with Obama. I usually agree with Cenk. When I disagree with Cenk, I don't rant on about it for days on end. And when I disagree with Obama I don't rant on about it for days on end.

by Verified1 on 07/09/2008 05:09:39 AM EST


Cenk doesn't have to pander to the Obama faction any more.  When TYT & Air America parted ways, virtually 100% of the shows funding was from memberships, and the only source of increased revenues was new memberships. (Handbag ads aren't big $)

 Cenk correctly identified Obama people as the most passionate and financially committed segment of his viewers, so he started kissing Barack's ass about 95% of the time and really cranking on trashing Hillary, which brought squeals of joy from the Obama people and presumably some new memberships, which was better than no new revenue at all.

This pragmatic marketing attitude was in sharp contrast to the old TYT brand (had to use that buzz word) which has always been to favor nobody and to go after everybody. "Rebel Headquarters."

With the new XM contract, TYT has money again and the show is moving back to it's roots. Sorry Barack. Fine by me.

by winsor on 07/09/2008 10:54:23 AM EST


Whoop, there it is!

Right on...

:)

by bobo1 on 07/09/2008 10:58:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]

It passing SUCKS. But does anybody care? 10% on the left and 5% on the right is about it.

It was clear from day 1 when this FISA bypass news broke. Old boy from Rolling Stone or whatever had all the info and it was law breaking stuff.

Did Barack not expect the Dems would suck this hard and we would actually need a filibuster?

by ViperVisor on 07/09/2008 11:34:06 AM EST

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I did not agree with Cenk's rant on Iraq, but he is right on FISA,

and if you think Cenk is throwing his listeners under the bus, then quit. No one is forcing you to be a listener.

Accusing him of only looking for the money is just stupid.

by jrolsen on 07/09/2008 12:40:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
There is no shifting of the show. XM gives ZERO input into our content and neither do so-called advertisers. I wish we had these advertisers that we had to kow-tow to, but we don't. And if I had to change the content of the show to please advertisers then why would I do the show in the first place. There are easier ways of making money.

The only thing that is changing is that we can't curse in the first two hours now because it's on a non-curse station on XM.

I'm happy that we are on XM because it brings in a bigger audience, but these fantasies about big paydays aren't even close to true. Again, I wish they were.

Finally, on this Iraq issue, I understand what you guys are saying. But I am certainly not attacking Obama from the right. I am coming at him from the left. In my opinion, he is signaling that he is going to shift toward the Republican position.

I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. We'll see. Will you guys admit I was totally right if Obama comes back from Iraq and "nuances" his position? I would be totally surprised if he didn't, given what he's done over the last month.

But if you think I'm becoming anything, let alone more Republican, because of XM or advertisers or anything else, you're crazy.

by Cenk on 07/09/2008 01:30:39 PM EST


I refer the honorable Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

by winsor on 07/09/2008 01:55:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I appreciate your input and look forward to future success for TYT! :)

by bobo1 on 07/09/2008 01:55:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Cenk,

I will concede that he is standing by exactly what he said before. He will consider what they say on the ground. Simple and plain. Now I will concede if he comes back and starts talking about kicking ass there for a 100 more years (holy shit would I be pissed...probably write in fucking Ross Perot or some shit). You can concede that if he comes back from Iraq and makes no major changes to his policy that you were wrong. 

 Also, please point out the "kid fist jab" story was bullshit. Here is an article from NY Times. We gotta stop believe the bullshit that comes from Huffington Post all the time. Some is good, some is utter shit.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nyti mes.com/2008/07/02/the-diss ed-fist-bump-that-wasnt/

Huffington Post even had some bullshit story about how Obama was praising Lil Wayne...WTF, total shit. Thats all I am saying. 

I know I know I am a 10 and should be at about a 9.8!

 

by KidDynamo0 on 07/09/2008 02:05:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]

We love the show man...I also love battle with people of politics...

 

Keep blowing up like Muslims...damn thats so wrong

by KidDynamo0 on 07/09/2008 02:06:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I have heard you on Sirius, Air America, XM, the internets and even the audition tapes from your living room which used to be linked somewhere.

Trust me, the politics ain't changing.

Now can we get a comment on Ben's future status?

Also, on the Iraq thing, we can all agree Obama has not shifted his policy, right?  You are just concerned he will, right?

by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 02:49:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Based on watching your show, I can't imagine you compromising with anyone on what the content will be.  Not being able to curse is a non-issue, really, because presumably you can curse in Turkish all you want.  I think more exposure will inevitably result in more members, more advertisers, and a larger audience.  It will happen!! 

P.S. I know you guys probably don't want to do it, but a fund-raising day every once in a while wouldn't bother me.  It could be sort of fun and competitive and would encourage non-members to give.

by desertpear on 07/09/2008 03:17:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]

This debate is similar to one over at Dkos; there are hordes of Obama fans bashing Kos for voicing his anger at Obama's position on FISA. They are making the same mistake some here are, confusing criticism from the left with right-wing smears.

I am a huge Obama fan but if the left sits on its hands until election day then the only voices in the media will be the Krauthhammers and Bill Kristols and Rush Limbaughs. That will inevitably shift the conversation to the right-a disaster for all progressives.

I like Obama a great deal but he's a politician and has to be taken to task, publicly, by his base when he strays. 

by dclawyer06 on 07/09/2008 04:39:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
He was channeling me.

Thanks, Cenk. Now my head won't explode for a few more hours.

I'm going to listen to it again.

by bablhous on 07/09/2008 07:07:05 PM EST


Hopefully you were watching the members only segment today because as mentioned in the chatroom yesterday and seen today on the show, those primary debates are videotaped. 

by rev24 on 07/10/2008 01:17:49 AM EST


Can you just tell us what you are referring to?

by ProfRich on 07/10/2008 01:23:36 AM EST

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