FISA's done, move on...

Email Print posted by TJD 07/09/2008 03:35:46 PM EST

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While we all cooked Obama for supporting this bill, how did it actually pan out?

Please read this link.

Now, for some highlights.

Obama voted for an amendment to strip Telecom Immunity.  It was defeated.  In fact, 2 other amendments addressing immunity were also submitted and were defeated.  And just to reiterate, these were civil suits, not criminal.  As I posted elsewhere, FISA already allows Telecom immunity if the Attorney General requested the wiretaps.  Since the Bush Administration has not provided any detail as to how the taps were obtained, it cannot be proven that the Telecoms actually broke the law to begin with.  McCain, of course, did not vote, like every other bill nowadays.

So, like I asked before - do we really know what's in this bill or what the ramifications are?  I would say, that unless you are a FISA scholar or lawyer, you're just listening to what other people tell you.  And, these days, that will get you in trouble.

It's done now.  Move on.  Nothing more to see here.
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FISA's done, move on... | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
This bill destroys all your privacy (none / 0)
This bill includes data mining.

That means they collect and record EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYBODY.
You name they will spy on it.
This is not done
its the begining of thought controll.
The next time your employer knows a little too much about you.
Thank Obama
This bill was Cheney's wet dream

Thank you Obama

by beelzibub on 07/09/2008 04:34:49 PM EST

It may be over for now but notes taken (none / 0)
C-Span has the full FISA bill that passed in the Senate today for everyone to have fun studying if you haven't done so already.  Although Clinton and Obama voted for the Dodd Amendment that would of striked "Title II - Protections For Electronic Communication Service Providers" from the bill, they still did a huge disservice to our country in voting for the overall bill.  Let it be noted that Senator Feinstein and Webb along with a number of other Dems, didn't even have it in them to vote for the Dodd Amendment.  It's a sad day for Americans and hopefully we hear some productive rage out of Cenk tonight.  

by rev24 on 07/09/2008 04:52:18 PM EST

My Bad, Clinton (none / 0)
I didn't mean to lump you with a bunch of daily losers like Obama and Webb.  After reviewing today's roll call, I noticed you actually voted Nay - horray for you!  This doesn't make what you've done in the past year go away, but even if you're being opportunistic, great move.  

by rev24 on 07/09/2008 07:04:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bullshit! (none / 0)
Yes, I'll blame Obama on this exclusively and not the other 60+ people who voted against the stripping of telecom immunity.
Yes, I'll blame Obama for voting for a bill that actually restates that the ONLY way you can get wiretaps is through FISA and FISA warrants.
Are you f**king kidding me?  The FISA law has been allowing this for 30 years!  And now that GW has abused the law and even broken it, you're blaming Obama for voting for laws that the President should have followed in the first place!  You're out of your mind.

Did Obama just vote for legislation that acquitted GW and his posse for their actions?  Nope.  Did he vote against future criminal actions against the telecoms?  Nope.  (Will the telecoms get charges filed - Nope!).

Look, I understand that the telecoms have a responsibility in this, but if they were ordered by the AG and the President to perform these taps, then they were in compliance with the 1978 FISA law and should, by rights, NOT be prosecuted in civil courts.  I hate it, too, but the law is the law.

If someone proves what I say to be incorrect, I'll be more than happy to eat my words.  But, until then, I call Shenanigans! on fickle, uninformed voters.

This is my signature.

by TJD on 07/09/2008 04:56:22 PM EST

Are you serious? (none / 0)
Forget about the Telecoms for now - Are you saying the FISA Bill of 2008 only reaffirms the FISA Law of 1978?  If so, I recommend you read through the various sections and amendments that have been made in this bill.  Take your own advice - don't trust me, Huffington Post, or cable news and read it yourself. 

by rev24 on 07/09/2008 05:22:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I will try (none / 0)
...to get through the legal mumbo jumbo.  It's tough.  but reading through this bill and making a judgement on it - good or bad - can only be done in comparison to the current FISA laws.  I simply do not have the resources to make that comparison. But, I'll give it a go.

And, sure, if this bill is so much worse that the 1978 laws, I'm all for Dem-bashing.  Count me all in.  But the original point which I strayed from was that blaming Barack Obama for this whole thing is misguided.  Saying that Obama gave Cheney his "wet dream" is stupid.  While others can call me a "Dem troll" (oddly enough, i didn't know I could troll on a website that shares the same political leanings of myself), I would rather call myself "realistic".  ; It's not all Obama's fault.  There are dozens of other Senators and House members that got this bill through.

Do I believe there is some element of pandering?  Absolutely.  Do I believe there needs to be compromise?  I do.  Do I believe that this is a violation of privacy?  Yup.  But do I believe this is lawful?  Well, if you ask this Supreme Court, it may not be.  If you ask McCain's Supreme Court, it will be.  If you ask Obama's Supreme Court, probably not.

This is my signature.

by TJD on 07/09/2008 05:39:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The reason why Republicans win more fights (none / 0)
"It's done now.  Move on. "

is the whole problem with the Dems, no don't give up, don't move on, keep fighting

Repugs haven't given up fighting against Roe vs Wade and you know what, if McCain wins, they'll win this fight also

haven't we learned anything out of the last 25 years?

by callisto on 07/09/2008 05:39:15 PM EST

You have indeed learned something. (none / 0)
"haven't we learned anything out of the last 25 years?"
 
Republicans never give up. We're already working on 2010, in case things don't go well in 2008.

In the end, we will prevail, and we will outlaw liberalism in America.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 05:47:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
and you show your true colors (none / 0)
outlawing everything that you don't agree with :) I remember some folks who were like that, they followed this disgruntled Austrian artist

well, you're in the right party for that

by callisto on 07/09/2008 05:52:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
slight difference (none / 0)
The plan is to export all liberalism and liberals to Europe. If American liberals want to live under socialism, we will help them find a new home in Europe.

This post from yesterday indicates the plan is already working.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 05:59:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Or... (none / 0)
firstly why not Canada?

now the or: a couple of the states can segregate again, I mean your plan would ask for a too large groups to move out of certain states + I don't see those NY liberals giving up their city to you conservatives, why also would you want that tainted land, where homosexuals aren't seen as an abomination, ... etc

also when on some of these issues, you are clearly in a minority, isn't it arrogant to say the least that you ask those people to leave their home?

no no, much better that the so called heartland founds it's own union, you can even make jesus your honorary king :)

by callisto on 07/09/2008 06:41:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cananda is fine, (none / 0)
As long as they never come back. Think of this as a foreign exchange program. We are importing people with drive and ambition who want to work and contribute. We are exporting people with no drive and no ambition.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 07:29:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
what about segregation? (none / 0)
you do realize some of the richest, excuse me THE richest people in the world will leave the US then, Buffet and Gates have no drive and ambition now? :)

you know what, why don't you leave those liberal coasts alone and form your own country in the middle, oh wait, that's right those coasts pay for the farm subsidies in the middle and there are no real cities there :)

come on Kenny, the United Christian States of America, Texas can be it's crown jewel :) you don't want wacky California, stuck up New York, elitist New England, fancy coffee drinking Washington state with their druggy musicians, you can start over with a clean land, not yet tainted by progressive thought

by callisto on 07/09/2008 07:58:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bill Gates is no Democrat. (none / 0)
He splits his campaign contributions squarely down the middle, in an effort to avoid the appearance of partisanship.

During the Clinton years, he was under constant attack by Janet Reno's DOJ on charges of antitrust violations.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 10:09:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
don't switch words (none / 0)
nobody said Democrat, we were talking about liberals vs conservatives

by callisto on 07/09/2008 10:31:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Democrats who voted for FISA (none / 0)
Bayh - Carper - Casey - Conrad - Feinstein - Innuoye - Kohl - Landrieu - Lincoln - McCaskill - Mukulski - Nelson (Neb.) - Nelson (Fla.) - Obama - Pryor - Rockefeller - Salazar - Webb - Whitehouse.

by KenTX on 07/09/2008 06:37:07 PM EST

holy toledo! (none / 0)

If anyone needs a job, Department of Homeland Security is hiring!!link to your dream job

Now, seriously though.  If you are going to fairly evaluate FISA, you first have to admit that there are people from which we may need protection.  I live in no fear of terrorist attacks myself, and I think our approach to terrorism in general is ludicrous. I also go about my life as if nobody is spying on me, even though I could very well be a target because I am interested in animal welfare (if you didn't know, animal rights groups and eco-activists are considered the number one domestic terrorist threat, believe it or not; I doubt those spying know the difference between animal welfare and rights). 

But, if you are interested in the whole spying-on-Americans program, do some research on Mike McConnell, director of National Intelligence. and follow the MONEY!!!  check into McConnell's connections.  Salon did a good piece on this in January 2007. link to article 

The New Yorker also did a great profile of him in January 2008.

But I agree, it's done and we need to move on and focus on other things for the moment and hope things change for the better.  

 

by desertpear on 07/09/2008 09:49:57 PM EST

They Outlawed Booze too... (none / 0)

It didnt last. It can be fixed with a democratic majority that could override Obama.

Did you people even take a Civics class?

by calturner on 07/09/2008 10:47:45 PM EST

we did take a civics class (none / 0)
And we learned that 40 Democrats could have prevented passage of this legislation. Did you take a civics class, nitwit?

by KenTX on 07/10/2008 01:11:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
SUCK MY DICK KenTX (none / 0)
Jackass!

ha ha

by YAHWEH54 on 07/10/2008 08:30:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
FISA's done, move on... | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
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