Time is a funny thing

Email Print posted by KidDynamo0 07/09/2008 09:58:48 AM EST

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What is going on during the "beat up Obama" month here at TYT.

I have no illusions that Obama is perfect, nor right on FISA. However, I don't get why Cenk has been all over Obama's ass for the last month on it.

CENK WE GET IT! Obama is wrong on FISA!!!!!!

 Let it go. You are just kicking him for no reason. How long do you need to rant about Obama and FISA. You were all for Obama a few weeks ago, and now you are acting like Obama is just a regualr joe politician and that somehow other people would be better as the presumptive nominee. When you talked with Wes Clark Jr. you made a comment about how maybe Clinton would have fought harder on this. WTF dude, I get that your pissed but give it a rest. You don't even believe that shit. You slammed Obama about redefining his Iraq withdrawl plan...so what. If he wants to pay attention to what is actually happening then he has that right. Why are you slamming him for something he hasn't even done yet, or might never do.

You were the one talking about how Obama is a politician and he will dissapoint us from time to time. That is a perfectly logical standpoint and I agreed with that. However, now you are screaming and jumping up and down about how he is selling out. Take your own advice, calm down. Voice your opinion and move on. You are hammering this FISA thing into nothingness. 

Some liberals and progressives are willing to throw it all away just because he fucked up on FISA, and yes he fucked up. So by your logic a Democrat has to be absolutely pure when running for POTUS. Give me a break. That is not living in the reality based community.When you start talking about how he sold out and such you are being no better to the cause than Lanny Davis and the Clinton people who said he had not crossed the Presidential threshold. Critizing Obama all you want, but how LONG does this last. You have been going after him personally for over a month now. 

The MSM has been driving this "he is moving to the center" meme. Sadly, you are falling for it. Normally you are right there rallying against the MSM, but on this topic you are right with them. Just ask yourself this...if the MSM is so wrong all the time, how is it that your are agreeing with them 100% on this. Is this the one time that they got it 100% correct. Not buying it man...not at all. 
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Poll

Cenk stance on Obama lately
Way over the top 30%
Dead on accurate 40%
Partially right 10%
Cenk is living on Mars with this one 0%
My brain and Cenk's brain are in perfect sync 20%

Votes: 10
Results | Other Polls
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Time is a funny thing | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 hidden)
Okaaayyy.... (none / 0)

Guess what? Obama has been driving towards the center. Read his own website. He tosses out some nice speeches on there too, but I happen to be well read and I'm not blinded by my (once) favorable opinion of Obama.

Here's the thing; Obama should know better, but he changed his position anyway. Then, when a massive number of supporters asked him to keep his pledge, he refused. Frankly, I've read the bill itself and I'm not impressed. I could live with it if it did not have telecomm immunity in it, but its not worth having if it does.

See, the Fourth Amendment, along with all the others, is kind of a sore point with me. A Deal Breaker, you could say.

He COULD keep his pledge and still vote for the bill, however he has had a sudden failure of leadership in anouncing his support of the bill without talking about removing telecomm immmunity from it. Democratic Senators will see that and follow his lead, making it difficult for him to keep that pledge. He's shot himself in the foot, if he cared about that pledge at all.

The other thing is, Obama has a large lead over McCain that could keep growing, instead his lead has froze and McCain is gaining on him. Any intelligent person might look at that and get a clue, but apparently his advisors are not any such thing and he's listening to them rather than doing a little research himself. Obama had his lead when he stayed strong on issues like Iraq, FISA, Energy, Iran, and so on. Clinton was not at all strong on these things and she lost. Strong evidence for him that he either doesn't see or ignores.

All of this leads me to find him guilty of being just another politician until I see otherwise, and its not hard to change my mind in favor of him. He still has to keep telecomm immunity out of that bill before I return to wholeheartedly supporting him. Thats really all I ask, and Obama has the skill, influence, and intelligence to do that. Which makes it even more sad and pathetic if he does not.

Cenk is right in going after Obama for it. If you don't call them on their bullshit, they'll think that they got away with it.

See, he could have gone to the center on things that weren't central to his campaign, like Iraq and his telecomm immunity pledge. His opposing of the Supreme Courts decision on not excuting child rapists was fine. His support of faith based initiatives was fine. Supporting the Destruction of the Fourth Amendment is NEVER fine. He could have gone in so many other reasonable directions, but he didn't and so he pays the price.

So chill your shit out and let Cenk do his job.

by Telrich on 07/09/2008 11:30:15 AM EST

Not buying it. (none / 0)

I never said supporting FISA is fine or correct. I hate that argument. What I am saying is that the slamming on Obama for a month is over the top. We get it. Move on. There is not a single person who listens here who doesnt know all about Obama and FISA now. So the vote is today, do we spend another month bashing him for it? Maybe 4 months...which is it?

Outside of FISA, please point to me where he is moving to the center.

Iraq? NO...his position is still the same.

Faith Based Initiatives? No...his position is still the same.

So besides FISA what do you have? NOTHING. Don't get me wrong FISA is BIG. However, the meme of moving to the middle in BS from the MSM.

Also, show me where McCain is gaining on him? All the polls I have seen Obama's lead is increasing, not slowing at all. You are talking out of your ass in reference to that. 

by KidDynamo0 on 07/09/2008 11:47:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Right and (none / 0)

I think the only thing missing from Cenk's rant is a call to action.

If Cenk were to encourage his listeners  to call their reps, call Harry Reid, call Obama, etc., then it would be much more productive.

Write the campaign and say we are witholding donations until Obama changes his stance on FISA. Things like that.

That is what is missing from the criticism and therefore deprives it of any true bite. 

People listen to Cenk and will take his lead. Remember the Enough! protests? How many of you left the comfort of your homes to join the weekly rally? And that was becasue Cenk initiated it (I know it was Ben's or Wes's idea) . 

My years of protest have taught me that critique without solution gains nothing significant. 

 

by Andrew Koenig on 07/09/2008 01:43:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I am upset about FISA (none / 0)
The rest is all true.  Just a bullshit rightie made up narrative.

by ProfRich on 07/09/2008 02:43:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Keeping Obama In Check (none / 0)
There is nothing wrong with holding our elected leaders to the highest standards.  I sure wish conservative Republicans and Democrats would of done the same with Bush.  Just because someone disagrees with Obama and calls him out on his blunders, doesn't mean they're not going to support and vote for him in the General Election.  Obviously in a campaign, it's important to keep our eyes on the prize and be critical of McCain, but faultering on core issues only makes Obama weaker in the long run.  I'm not 100% sure on the Iraq issue Cenk pointed out yesteday, but on other issues such as FISA, Cenk's courage to stand up for what his right is very commendable.   

by rev24 on 07/09/2008 01:04:23 PM EST

Disagree is one thing (none / 0)

Rev,

I hear ya. Holding a politician's feet to the fire is what we should be doing. Walking in lock step like the Republicans is a path to failure. However, eating our own is as well. My largest point is that how long do we beat up Obama over FISA? How long do we hold him over the fire during this historic election (historic meaning its importance, not Obama's race). Courage to stand up and critize Obama is easy. The MSM has been doing it hardcore for that last month. The real courage is standing up and saying, I disagree and I will fight to get people on my side about FISA, not "Obama is a coward...Clinton might have actually been better." That is not courage that is just anger. Politicians disappoint, why is Cenk acting like Obama should be perfect...he is not going to be. So I ask again how long do you bloody your own guy before you wake up and realize that the other guy is benefiting from it?

The Iraq issue Cenk brought up was ridiculous, that was falling right into the MSM nonsense. Just like the "Obama refused to fist jab a kid" meme. Which was later retracked by the NY Times, here: http://thecaucus.blogs.nyti mes.com/2008/07/02/the-diss ed-fist-bump-that-wasnt/

The Cenk I know would have come out and said how ridiculous the story was in thefirst place and then would have researched it, and most likely found the aforementioned story. However, lately he is just pissed, so logic and research be damned. The Dems screwed up...move on but never forget. We don't need to hear every interview and story twisted into how much Obama fucked up on FISA. Its just ruining the show by driving it into the ground. Look at DailyKos right now...totally riddled with FISA stories, not focusing on much else. Perfect distraction for the Republicans and John McCain.

by KidDynamo0 on 07/09/2008 01:53:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Time is a funny thing | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 hidden)
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