Rant: I Made 1 Late Credit Card Payment, So I Called...

Email Print posted by ihavenobias

08/01/2008 01:12:40 PM EST Google Technorati del.icio.us digg reddit

Stupid me. One day late.

Now my interest rate went to the default rate of 28.99%. That's almost TWENTY NINE PERCENT. I'm so pissed and yes, that includes at myself for screwing up and making the payment a few hours later than I should have (didn't show up until the next business day).

And again, I can blame myself for not paying full attention to the terms and conditions. It's true, I signed the papers I signed and nodded yes, etc.

With those disclaimers out of the way, WTF? I called to have my rate lowered and the woman on the phone (the supervisor I got to after the intial CSR) said they review it every 12 months. In other words, I'd have the possibility to have it lowered in a year.

I asked her why they don't offer a one time exception (hell, once a year), or why the penalty is so God Damn high (why not charge a fee or increase the rate by 1%).

I added that her corporation doesn't care about the individuals and the bad economy (that they in part helped to create), they care about increasing their profits as they are legally obligated to have as their top priority. I said it was absurd and unacceptable.

Her response? "We do care and that's why we offer so many payment options. Would you like me to share those with you? You can pay by phone or online or do automatic debits from your account".

My response: No, they don't care, otherwise they would offer a ONE time exception or they would make the penalty significantly less strict. We aren't talking about someone not paying their card for months and or paying way after the due date.

Finally she asked "do you have any other questions"?

I said "yes, how do they sleep at night"? (Silence)

I added that they probably sleep fine, because they're raking in money hand over foot and they live in a nice, safe bubble of private schools and luxury cars and other wealthy friends who don't understand what it means to have a credit card rate go up to 28.99%.

And I apologized and said that I know SHE doesn't set up these rules and that she is just the messenger. But I added (paraphrase) that I hope she understands deep down when she goes home from work that her company is screwing good, hard working people trying to make an honest living.

Then I told her politely to have a good weekend and that was that. Maybe I was too harsh. Again, I did NOT swear or say anything about her, I said "they" or "corporations" or "your company". And again, I said twice that my issue wasn't with her personally and that she was just the messenger.

PS---This is totally unrelated but I also wanted to share the 3 Facts That Could Change This Election.

< Married 7 times | The new "surge" that we are not prepared for >

Poll

Should There Be A Limit To How Much Interest Credit Companies Can Charge?
No, they can charge whatever they want. 42%
Maybe, but I'm not sure what it should be. 4%
1-5% 4%
5-10% 9%
10-15% 9%
15-20% 19%
20-25% 4%
25-35% 4%

Votes: 21
Results | Other Polls
 Display:
Rant: I Made 1 Late Credit Card Payment, So I Called... | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 hidden)
Default Rates Stink! (none / 0)
I'm assuming this is a Chase card, right?  If so, the usurious interest rate will never, ever be lowered.  Your best bet is to call back and offer to close the card in exchange for your old rate back.  If that doesn't work, close the card anyway.  Chase will let you apply for the *exact same card* again in 6 months, and you'll get your rate back to what it once was...

by skofarrell on 08/01/2008 02:27:25 PM EST

How did you know? (none / 0)
Well, at least I'm not the only one.  And who voted on the poll and said credit card companies can charge whatever they want?

That's one of those answers that sounds good on paper (private company, free market, etc.) but ultimately hurts the overall economy and screwed over a lot of people.

And look, it'd be one thing if someone was not making payments consistently, but ONE late payment? It's insane and we need regulations against that. I've also heard of banks (and other businesses) moving up the due dates on people with automated monthly payments leading them to suddenly be late and smacked with fees and a default rate.

Why is it a good thing to allow this to happen? Someone give me a *practical* answer. Why is it a good thing overall for our economy in the long run?

I know why it helps the credit card companies in the short run and I understand Ken (or whoever) will respond "teh free market is God" to any question, but those aren't good, practical long term answers.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 02:45:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Universal Default" (none / 0)

Be glad that "universal default" is gone.  This clause was slipped in in the mid 2000's by most card companies.  they said if you "default" on one of your bank's cards, they can apply that default on all of the cards they've issues to you.  "Default" can mean going over the limit, a late payment, nsf on a check, you name it. 

Most card companies voluntarily removed this clause in the last year, after Congress started making some noise.  Chase is not a bad company.  The problem with them is that their front line employees are simply not empowered to "do the right thing", like cut you some slack on your first late.  Play the game.  Pay the card off, cancel it and reapply in a few months.  Forewarned is forearmed.

by skofarrell on 08/01/2008 02:59:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Believe me (none / 0)
if it was that easy to pay off the card I'd do it.  My best hope for now is to find a balance transfer with a great intro rate and lower rate in general.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:05:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
This is what I would suggest (none / 0)
I would absolutely suggest a balance transfer and close out the card and never deal with the bank again (you may even want to call them and tell them that's what you're doing if you've been a long term customer).  Even with credit tightening, as long as your credit doesn't suck you should still be getting 3 or 4 offers a week in the mail.  Also Yahoo and MSN finance i think have lists of the best CC offers out there.  There is no reason you should stand for paying off your balance at that rate. 

by alphasigmookie on 08/03/2008 02:05:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I just got approved yesterday (none / 0)
for a new card. Great interest rate after the initial 0%.

Talk about perfecting timing!

by ihavenobias on 08/03/2008 02:14:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
good to know (none / 0)
I had no idea the universal default was [mostly] gone. I know Chase was hardcore about it. You screw up one card not related to Chase and Chase would still raise your rates.

by jazzchic on 08/01/2008 06:18:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Is it possible to disagree on this? (none / 0)

I'm with you completely.  I don't have a lot of debt, but 29% of what I do have is still a lot.  What a pain.

Paying 29% interest; really fucking expensive.  Telling off that employee at the end of the call; priceless.  Alright, not really priceless, but hey, it's something.  Kinda...

by Spencer on 08/01/2008 03:11:24 PM EST

Keep in mind (none / 0)
I was talking to the low paid manager, NOT the low-paid customer service rep.

I used to work in a call center (411) so I have much sympathy and empathy for them. I didn't swear, insult or yell.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:17:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That makes it even more pricelesser. (none / 0)
Kinda...

by Spencer on 08/01/2008 03:22:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Brilliant idea (none / 0)
My friend just got a video camera so maybe I can do it soon.

A fake commercial showing someone getting screwed by their credit card company and at the end a variation on the "priceless" line.

PS---If anyone steals my idea I demand 28.99% of the credit/fame.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:31:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Come to think of it (none / 0)
TYT should do some fake, funny commercials like that for marketing purposes.

If done right it could catch fire and spread all over youtube.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:32:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I am not an economist (none / 0)
But I don't think there's any reason for the usury rate to have been raised as high as it has other than pressure from credit companies.

by jarett on 08/01/2008 03:14:04 PM EST

Thom Hartmann (none / 0)
has said more than once (and I'd be curious to know more about it) that at one time in our history it was against the law to charge more than 10% interest.

Assuming that's true, man, have times changed. 30% interest is highway robbery, period, especially in the context of a simple, stupid honest mistake.

It's a trap meant to keep the cash flowing while digging the debt hole deeper and deeper and deeper.  Wouldn't our economy benefit more if people could spread out their saved money on other goods and services rather than the sinkhole of a handful of giant credit card companies?

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:20:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I always hear Thom say that (none / 0)
but I've never been able to find any info about it.  Someone with more e-skills then me should figure this out for us.

by Spencer on 08/01/2008 03:26:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Big 3 (none / 0)
For the 3 people who voted that the credit card companies should be able to charge whatever they want, I'd like you to explain why.

Keep in mind that "personal responsibility" while valid is only part of the equation. For example, I refer you to the mortgage meltdown.

Did some people get in over their heads? Yes, of course. But do you really think that means we shouldn't have any rules to limit that from happening in light of the long-term disastrous financial consequences?

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:52:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
real problem (none / 1)

Don't go into credit card debt.

100% of 0 is 0.

Don't talk about religion or politics, my ass!

by TheRob91 on 08/01/2008 03:43:40 PM EST

Wow (none / 0)
That was enlightening!


Now if you can find me a cheap flux-capacitor I can finally finish my time machine. Try and get something for under $200 if you can (my remaining credit is like $220).

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 03:48:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
o well (none / 1)

"Hey, I spent all my money on take out food and a new tv but now I don't have enough for rent. Why can't my landlord just get off my back"

You make a mistake shit happens. Don't sign a contract you won't stick to.

Don't talk about religion or politics, my ass!

by TheRob91 on 08/02/2008 01:19:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You're making assumptions (none / 0)
And a sweeping, insulting generalization.

At any rate, even if you agree with that, are you saying you disagree that there should be rules regarding how much credit card companies can shaft consumers (and or how easily the insanely high default rate can kick can)?

The issue here is not about buying a bunch of bullshit and then not being able to afford rent. But let's say someone DOES buy a bunch of shit they don't need.
Fine, fault them for that. If they make one late payment (many companies apparently move up their due dates or run transactions late based on the horror stories I read at Dkos where I also posted this story) why should their interest rate double or triple to a point where maybe they CAN'T pay their rent?

How does this help our overall economy, especially with stagnant wages, inflation and the mortgage meltdown? Sure, it enriches the credit card company itself, but at what price?

It seems like there are a lot of people out there that get off on seeing people punished. I'm reminded of the type of person that says "abortion because she says she can't take care of a kid? Tough, she shoulda thought of that before she got pregnant".

Sure, she SHOULD have been using birth control, I agree. But maybe the condom broke and more importantly, I care more about preventing an unwanted kid than I do about getting off at seeing that woman get her "deserved punishment" for making the mistake of getting pregnant when she wasn't ready for it.

by ihavenobias on 08/02/2008 11:00:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Sure, there is no shortage of... (none / 0)

irresponsible consumers.

But we should also remember that a large percentage financial collapses are caused by medical problems.  Just saying.  And the rest are caused by Dick Cheney hacking people's bank accounts.

And somehow the Republicans think it isn't strange that the president of the United States has televised public addresses where he has little more to say than, "Everyone go buy some more shit!"

by ProfRich on 08/02/2008 12:10:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
nope (none / 0)

Were not talking about abortion, which I am in favor of.

The point I'm making is that people being stupid enough to sign these plans with rate like that are worse than the companies charging them. 

Shit like this needs to be used to put an impression into people's brains - don't spend money you don't have. I think people shouldn't even get credit cards, but thats just me.

I understand that maybe it isn't the best way to solve the problem(or even a way to solve it at all), but hell, you could set up an AUTOMATIC electronic payment if you wanted to. There are so many ways around the problem that I don't really feel for people that fuck up with it. Besides, can't you move it to another card anyway?

Don't talk about religion or politics, my ass!

by TheRob91 on 08/02/2008 09:03:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Horrible Attitude (none / 0)
People don't sign up for 28.99% interest, they get screwed for something stupid and THEN their rate gets jacked up.

It wasn't always that way, this is a result of credit card/bank lobbyists pushing for such legislation.

And there you go again getting off on wanting to see people punished for being "stupid" rather than looking at what makes sense for our overall economy.

And like I said before several people at DailyKos reported that they got screwed WITH automatic deductions on their account (not just for credit cards, also for cable, utilities, etc. The company moved up the due date, some on a regular basis.

Your argument is the same one used by conservatives and libertarians to justify screwing over the working poor/middle class on a regular basis. The latest example is that the mortgage meltdown all comes down to "stupid people" signing up for mortgages they can't afford.

The bottom line is that it hurts our overall economy to let corporations do whatever the fuck they want. Whatever sadistic joy you get from watching "stupid people" screw up should be far outweighed by that simple fact.

by ihavenobias on 08/02/2008 09:33:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Automatic Payments (none / 0)
As ihnb mentioned, it is common practice for credit card companies to move up due dates, therefore, making your automatic payments late making you subject to outrageous default rates.  This is why when I have credit debt, I have monthly reminders on an Excel sheet to make manual payments. 

Another insane practice that I've heard about is the ability of credit card companies to lower your credit card limit due to your credit history/score.  So you've never missed a payment, and all of a sudden you're in default because the credit card company decided to lower your limit making your balance over the limit.  Again read the fine print, but I still think it's completely unethical.

by rev24 on 08/02/2008 11:23:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Still beats dealing with Vinny (none / 0)
It still beats the old school loan sharks, at least the credit card company won't break your bones if you're late on a payment, but the interest rates arn't much better. 

by alphasigmookie on 08/03/2008 02:12:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
autopayments (none / 0)
Yeah the autopayments can really bite you in the ass as well.  They're a great way to overdraw your account if you dont' pay close enough attention. 

by alphasigmookie on 08/03/2008 02:15:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I am not an economist (none / 0)
But I don't think there's any reason for the usury rate to have been raised as high as it has other than pressure from credit companies.

by jarett on 08/01/2008 03:50:53 PM EST

ouchies! (none / 0)

That sucks nobias.  I recently transferred all my debt to a 0% for 12 months introductory rate card, but I have excellent credit. 

There is a person on Daily Kos that writes columns specifically on credit card stuff that you might want to check out

hmmm, my link button isn't working ;p

 

by desertpear on 08/01/2008 04:39:15 PM EST

charge _any_ rate (none / 0)

i am one of those (no surprises there) that voted for credit card companies to charge any rate of interest whatsoever that they want to.

in my experience (personal and that of people i know sufficiently well to dicuss personal finance with), credit card companies are extremely lenient and flexible with:

  • those who pay off their balances in full each month.
  • those who are not habitually late.
  • those who manage their credit well (i.e. not have tens of credit cards, and rotate/transfer balances between them just to avoid or delay full payment). 

if such a person misses out or is late on a payment, all they have to do is call the company and ask for an exception---they get it right away and without hassle.

if you did not get such a royal treatment, chances are that you do not fit the profile of a "good customer" to the company.

 

if you really think that you are a "good customer", and you do not like the rates the credit card company is charging you, your have a very simple plan of action ahead of you:

  •  pay off your balance
  • cancel your "bad" card
  • use cash, checks, or a different credit card

in fact, even the mere threat of cancellation is often enough to get the credit card company to make exceptions, assuming they consider you a "good" user of credit.

conversely, empty threats from "bad" users of credit are recognized for what they are---mere bravado from someone firmly bent over the barrel with their pants down. credit card companies are perfectly free to ream such people as they choose.

 

i am firmly opposed to nanny-state government regulations restricting what credit card companies can charge people who really cannot afford to use credit (or who are too stupid to use it wisely).

personal responsibility matters.

in your case, if you will be forced to make a lot of sacrifices in your life by giving up credit cards, fucking do it already instead of whining about it here. don't expect me to have sympathy for your bad financial behavior, or expect the government (and indirectly, my tax dollars) to support your lack of discipline in your personal life.

you obviously don't ask for my advice before making financial decisions (including the decision to have a non-zero revolving balance on your credit card); so don't expect me to give you any consolation or support when you screw up.

by neo on 08/01/2008 04:56:08 PM EST

(Rolling Eyes) (none / 0)
I think you can download Empathy 8.0 through Microsoft now (although 1.0 would be an upgrade for you based on your other comments).

You know, like when you said "sluts" that dress provocatively that get raped had it coming?

Conservatives and libertarians are always such bad-asses until something happens to them or someone close to them.  Then they "whine" just like the rest of us, be it about healthcare or the economy.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 05:06:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Good but not profitable (none / 0)
But those 'good' customers that pay off their balance every month don't make the credit companies money.

by jazzchic on 08/01/2008 06:23:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Highway Robbery (none / 0)
Don't mess your time with generation retard and immediately be transferred to a supervisor.  God willing, these bastards will rot in hell.

by rev24 on 08/01/2008 04:58:53 PM EST

Usury (none / 0)

Many years ago...in happier, pre-Republican times...credit card rates were capped to a max of 21% nationally(?), as I recall. Each state also had its own limits and laws..a very "states rights" sort of thing.

When Reagan and his bloodsucking spawn came into power, states control over credit wasn't profitable enough for the banks and particularly since 2001...the credit card lobby ie banks, pushed for and received ( with the requisite payoffs to (R) campaigns...etc) essentially carte blanche control of interest rates. Its makes them more competitive is the claim. Its funny how states "rights" and local control go out the window when profit is involved.

Interest rates are a function of credit score or a long term record with one provider. Some on this site have suggested that "good" customers receive preferential treatment, ie:

credit card companies are extremely lenient and flexible with:

  • those who pay off their balances in full each month.
  • those who are not habitually late.
  • those who manage their credit well (i.e. not have tens of credit cards, and rotate/transfer balances between them just to avoid or delay full payment). 

if such a person misses out or is late on a payment, all they have to do is call the company and ask for an exception---they get it right away and without hassle.

in our cliamte today, that statement is patently untrue with the exception that if you are continually late then you will certainly pay the higher rate or if you are an exceptional customer, just not "good", you may get a break. The rest of you folks are ,for all practice purposes, screwed. Its like this:

  1. Credit card companies want customers who carry and routinely service a balance. If you pay off their balances in full each month they don't want you. They make no money and actually lose money, (hence the annual fee and except AME who charges a higher merchant fee for that reason)
  2. Fees (and obviously, higher interest charges over the initial agreed rate) are a very, very large revenue stream for banks.

That being said it should be no surprise that the ever widening mortgage mess is pressuring bank revenue.  Banks are jacking rates on all customers...as a way to make up for lost income from defaulted mortgages... period.... whenever they can and for whatever reason.

  • If you have too many cards...and they determine what that number is...your rate will get raised..
  • If you average balance goes above a certain threshold..and they determine what that is...your rate gets raised. 
  • You debt is sold to a new credit card company...your rate can get raised.
  • If you have a change in finances ie; layoff, divorce...your rate can get raised.
  • Oddly enough if you don't have a certain number of active cards...you credit score will be lowered and you rate will get raised.
  • Don't use your card very often? Guess what...

Simply put happy credit card use is a moving target. One exception and suggestion are credit cards issued by professional associations and some credit unions whose membership is based on employment at a specific company or in a specific profession...that sort of thing..USAA is a good example. They really will work with you.

BUT, after all it is their ( the banks) money so the only way to absolutely avoid these issues is to simply not or severely limit the use of credit cards. Be advised, If you do, don't plan on buying a house any time soon unless you have a sizable down payment.


 


"Freedom is important to Republicans as long as someone else pays for it on the battlefield and on April 15th."

by MRFred on 08/01/2008 06:16:32 PM EST

As usual (none / 0)
Another informative and thorough post.

by ihavenobias on 08/01/2008 06:25:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Rant: I Made 1 Late Credit Card Payment, So I Called... | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 hidden)
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