Hey Everyone, Let Me Know What You Think(!)

Email Print posted by ihavenobias 08/13/2008 02:26:36 PM EST

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How can we increase forum participation and the quality of the discussions?

I know some people are turned off by trolling (real and imagined) and thread hijacking while others aren't necessarily crazy about the layout and web tools here.

So what can be done about it? (Yes, that includes you lurkers who never or almost never comment)

-Do we need a more active moderator presence?

-Are there quick, inexpensive ways to improve the forum to make it more readable, interesting and user-friendly?

-Are people aware of how to Recommended (or Not Recommend) threads, how to edit threads, how to use the Hotlist function, etc.? Should there be an FAQ on these topics?

-What would make YOU create and comment on more threads/posts here?

PS---I think an easy way to increase participation is to have Cenk reference comments in the forum (and or the forum in general) more frequently in the first 2 hours of the show. Even once a week would make a difference IMO.
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 Display:
Hey Everyone, Let Me Know What You Think(!) | 163 comments (163 topical, 0 hidden)
Do I smell ... (none / 0)
The Fairness Doctorine here?

Is this the "get rid of bobo" telethon?

Just wonderin'...

:)

by bobo1 on 08/13/2008 02:32:40 PM EST

Huh? (none / 0)
I honestly didn't have you in mind when I created this thread. This is for everyone.

If you have some thoughts on the questions I raised, share them!

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 02:43:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh, OK... (none / 0)
Its probably just my paranoia at work again!

:)

by bobo1 on 08/13/2008 02:53:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes you do smell (none / 0)
what else can I say?

by MRFred on 08/13/2008 05:20:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
hmm once a week (none / 0)

Well maybe having a once a week segment with forum posts could work, but im not sure it would be effective. Cenk and Ana do already reference posts at times, without having any noticeable effect. As to more moderation: No. Free speech. More power = more abuse, its always like that, even with something as petty as forums.

Would be nice with a more comprehensive listing of posts with more sortability. No. of comments, no. of words. word/comment ratio. Something like that.

 

by whoosh on 08/13/2008 02:54:58 PM EST

Oh (none / 0)
I didn't mean for them to do a segment based on the forum, I just meant Cenk could tap into the the still growing XM audience more.

He references the chat more than the forums IMO. At any rate, it couldn't hurt, right?

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 02:57:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cenk and the dungeons (forums) (none / 0)

Cenk's interest seems to be in order:

1) e-mails sent to him

2) the live chat

3) blog posts (rarely)

4) comments on blog posts (almost never)

I feel pretty confident Dave is the only one who regulalry reads the comments.

Ana does some.

Cenk does every once in a while. 

by ProfRich on 08/13/2008 03:14:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Actually (none / 0)
I think Cenk does read most of the comments, but that's just my guess.

At any rate, I'm surprised you didn't take this opportunity to make another push for phone calls. Or hell, some new bathrooms and lighting for the dungeons at least.

;)

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:16:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Calls once a week would be nice. (none / 0)

And that's coming from someone who's not really a fan of callers on radio (our peeps seem to be a touch more informed than most though).

And I think Rich is right about who reads the comments.  Cenk only reads them when they really disagree with him (which I assume someone tells him about), like when he said Obama was flip flopping on Iraq for example.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:21:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm not big on calls either (none / 0)
But I agree that once a week (for an hour maybe) might be worth a shot.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:24:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Come on (none / 0)
Who doesn't want to hear Ken or bobo call in at least once?

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:28:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sure (none / 0)
That's what the weekly call hour is for. Maybe 1.5 hours if I'm being generous and the calls are actually interesting.


And I'd like Cenk to have a Thom Hartmann policy where callers that disagree with him are moved to the front of the line. I love that about Hartmann and it makes for great radio.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:31:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes (none / 0)

The opposite of that policy is why most call in radio sucks.  The Ditto Heads and what not.  I love the conservative guests TYT's had on recently as well (Ana, I'm not saying anything...).

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:35:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Another kudos to Hartmann (none / 0)
He has conservative/libertarian guests on *at least* a few times a week. I would LOVE for Cenk to do the same, because as you agree, it makes for great radio.

And hell, if you get the right guest and the segment is fiery enough, it'd make for a great youtube clip that could go viral.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:40:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Spencer gets it. (none / 0)
"I love the conservative guests TYT's had on recently."

The entire program format would become more interesting and successful if it became a dialogue between liberals and conservatives.

by KenTX on 08/13/2008 03:44:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well, not the whole show. (none / 0)

But I do agree to a point.  I don't want this to become Hannity and Colmes or anything though (people screaming at eachother across a desk/phone line for three hours).

The lib guests are great as well (in most cases).

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:49:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Exactly (none / 0)
...

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:53:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Agree (none / 0)
But not the style of bullshit that is on TV with two people stating talking points and discussing nonsense. Tax policy, heck all domestic and foreign policy, current issues, crises, long-term visions etc. would all be great debated between liberals, progressives (still not sure there's a difference, sorry Star), conservatives, libertarians and even soulless cowards who don't believe in anything like the DLC/Blue Dog types.

But more good liberal guests are also enjoyed if they have something to say (hint, hint: Seder, Maddow, et al... or similar people, I understand that those two may be tough to book).


P.S.- Nice to see you on Ken, believe it or not. Our more recent crop of trolls have been just spammers and simply fire and run, no engagement whatsoever.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:06:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Great idea Ken! (none / 0)
Let's turn a progressive show into one that spreads conservative propaganda!  I'm sure Cenk will be into it.

by desertpear on 08/15/2008 11:48:46 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Calls are great... for THIS show (none / 0)
We tend to have callers who don't make for awful, awkward, TERRIBLE radio.  I can't say the same for most other talk shows.

by jarett on 08/14/2008 06:08:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Last time we bitched about phone calls... (none / 0)

He took two phone calls.

It was awesome 

by ProfRich on 08/13/2008 03:31:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Maybe this time (none / 0)
he'll take three!

And it'll be 1/3 more awesomer.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:41:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Or 50% more awesome (none / 0)
depending on how you look at it.

;)

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:52:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
3/4 most awesomest (none / 0)
The level of awesome goes down as the number of calls goes up. It's not a consistent rate of decline, though... complicated formula.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:08:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I see (none / 0)
Maybe it depends on who calls though?

by ihavenobias on 08/14/2008 01:09:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes (none / 0)
That is one of the variables. Others include length of call, relevance, clarity, enunciation, [(# of x that specific caller has called in that day) + ((# of x called in that week)/2) + ((# of x called in total)/5)], and a whole host of other factors weighted according to a different formula. All of which will have to be calculated and explained by better, more educated men than I. Or women.

What were we talking about? 

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 02:14:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
A few suggestions (none / 0)

One thing that might help is subdividing the board into separate forums for different issues.  Election/Campaign, Foreign Policy, Entertainment, Economics, Environment, etc whatever.  That way people could concentrate their interests.  It also will leave more threads visible for a longer period of time.  If people don't get here very regularly, they might miss some threads that they would have liked to comment on. If any particular forum gets little action, it's easy enough to delete.

You might also want to consider Conservative and Liberal forums.  It's possible there might be less harassment that way.

More moderation might be good but only to keep personal attacks at bay.  It's one thing to say your ideas stink.  It's another to say "you suck". 

I managed a forum at one time and was very involved in posting.  One thing I did that made a difference is to make sure that everyone's post got at least SOME kind of response (unless it's so lame it deserves none).  There's nothing more depressing that feeling totally ignored.   

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head.

 

by blueheartinaredstate on 08/13/2008 02:55:45 PM EST

subdivision (none / 0)

 

Ill second the Issue Subdivion ammendment ;)

 

by whoosh on 08/13/2008 03:00:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You touched on an important point (none / 0)
Far too often there are threads that get ZERO responses.

And it's happened to just about EVERYONE that posts here with any kind of regularity. I know, sometimes the topic might not be as interesting (to some) and or the post may not be well written, but I just find it surprising because of how often it happens.

I think some of your suggestions (along with increasing participation from the XM/Air America audience and the lurkers) could help to that end.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:01:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Confession (none / 0)

Because of the way I use this site, i don't read the original blog posts.  I read the comments and then jump up to the original blog post if the comments are interesting.

I skip right past the splash page and search "comments" with all other fields blank and read from wherever I read to the present.

Do it this way because I hate trying to scroll through a thread looking for what I haven't read and then dealing with the super skinny threads. 

by ProfRich on 08/13/2008 03:16:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Really? (none / 0)
I have to say, that's kinda strange.  I mean hell, the original post provides the context that make the comments relevant (generally speaking).

Super skinny threads...do you mean when there are a bunch of comments and they are stacked
up to the point

where it

ends

up

looking

like

this?

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:22:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Here is the problem: This forum SUCKS. (none / 0)
Scoop is NOT a good format for encouraging group discussion.  What we need is a real forum AND a blog system like we have now.  Then we need an RSS feed or something similar from the PHPbb forum to the front page, such that content from that forum is always visible on the front page.

This way, we can split user content into two categories: "articles" that we research carefully and put more thought into, and simple threads for discussion of the issues of the day (and random/personal/silly/off-t opic stuff).  As it is things get pushed off the front page WAY too fast because we use the blog posting system as if it was a forum.

by jarett on 08/14/2008 05:25:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I should add (none / 0)
that I totally agree, Moderators shouldn't be out to censor differing ideas.

I just think a LOT of people get turned off by back and forth off-topic personal insults.


PS---Now that I think about it, an occasional (short) segment based on the forum isn't a bad idea. Like if Cenk picked a thread or comment he especially liked once a week on Friday's (or something) to share. It would encourage more people to read and write IMO, plus it would be infrequent enough to not be ridiculous.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:06:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Meh... (none / 0)
He should only mention them if he actually likes them.  I don't want him to feel obligated to mention whatever bullshit we've decided to talk about that week.  He's got HuffPo for that.  ;)

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:09:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If it was a daily thing I'd totally agree (none / 0)
But come one, is it possible to go a full week around here and not read ONE interesting thread or *comment*?

I don't think so.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:11:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A monthly winner? (none / 0)

 

Purely arbitrary - let Cenk or Dave decide.

Take a post from sometime in the month that is exceptional in some way and give a free 6 month subscription.

by MedfordTim on 08/13/2008 07:41:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Or a one month membership (none / 0)
And or a TYT t-shirt or hat, Ana calendar, etc. 

Good idea Tim.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 07:42:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I like these ideas. (none / 0)
Some people really work their asses off researching/writing these threads, and a little prize/recognition on occasion would be cool for them.  It all goes to that whole "building a strong community" thing.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 07:53:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Right (none / 0)
And it would encourage people to write better. Granted, it won't always work, but still.

;)

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 07:55:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What are you implying? (none / 0)
You don't think my rants about gameshows, pro-wrestler endorsements, or TV shows I like will make the cut?  Come on bias.  Keep hope alive!

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 08:03:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No, I don't mean that at all (none / 0)
I like the forum having a variety of topics, just like TYT is not ONLY about politics.

But a little competition makes things even more fun and interesting.

PS---Spider Man And His Amazing Friends is on again. The King Pin is in this one.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 08:06:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wilson Fisk is a bad bad man. (none / 0)

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 08:11:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You couldn't resist (none / 0)
You just had to go that extra nerdy step, didn't you?

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 08:12:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You know my steez. (none / 0)

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 08:27:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Those won't make the cut (none / 0)
But our SUPER-COOL o/t segueways into comic books will definitely make the cut! ;-)

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:11:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Our regular trolls (none / 0)

won't be coralled into a "Conservative" side of the blog.  After all, they're here on TYT, which means they set out to argue with us libs (which I'm fine with BTW).

And I like everything being all together here on one list.  I like to be able to post on relevant/current events stuff AND some of the more random/celebrity crap that people choose to talk about all in one place.  It's a perfect mix.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:07:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Categories/subdivision (none / 0)
I'm down with this. It should be implemented ASAP actually. It's tough to read through a bunch of posts to find what you're interested in, and I usually have a limited time to do so and end up not seeing a lot of great posts I'd be much more interested in.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:13:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Thoughts (none / 0)

I like the lack of moderator presence.

I like the way the site is set up.

I wish the Recommend button actually did something, I don't know what Hotlist is, and I like the idea of an FAQ of some sort to explain how this stuff works (even if it's just  a user created one).

My one suggestion is to get rid of bobo.  His excessive use of punctuation/right wing talking points MUST BE STOPPED!!!  ;)   Idiot...

Honestly, I kind of like the way this community works.  People only seem to comment if they have something legitimate (or hilarious*) to add.  It's not just thousands of people saying many variations of "I agree" like some other lesser lib blogs.

* - This is consistently the most witty forum I've ever posted in, and that's probably my favorite thing about it.  Fist bumps for all!

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:02:27 PM EST

I understand (none / 0)
I agree that a site like DailyKos gets out of control and obnoxious at times with the number of responses.  That's a case of TOO MUCH participation sometimes.

But it's not even close to that here. I think we can find a nice middle ground between dust barrels and tumbleweeds and an insanely crowded forum.

BTW, there is also a Don't Recommend It button right under the Recommend It button which is hilarious (and also never used, although I actually did use it earlier today...I'll let you guess why).

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:10:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes, I've used it to. (none / 0)

I think we're currently at that balance point between too much and not enough, but that's just me.  A little more wouldn't hurt though, and that seems to be happening on it's own with increased exposure.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:17:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah, that's just you (none / 0)
;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

PS---Here, I'll make up for it. (Warning: This happened at the Olympics and I can't believe how gratuitous this video and the screenshots are in this article).

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:28:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I saw that. (none / 0)

Take that Hungary!

Also, one other thing that should change on this site; more people need to have their links open in a new window (HINT). 

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:55:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0)
I usually right click and then select "open in new window" on links if I'm worried about that (HINT)*




*Come on, how could I resist? You can't blame me.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:59:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oooowww! (none / 0)

 

I can't help it. It reminded me of Dana Carvey (or was it Phil Hartman?) on SNL where he rips his arms apart trying to lift weights.

Joe Theisman's ankle shot was more brutal. Burned into my mind....

by MedfordTim on 08/13/2008 07:46:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm assuming Cenk will cover it (none / 0)
But seriously, how gratuitous was the slow-mo replay (over and over) and the HuffPo zoom in screen shots?

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 07:49:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
::::::FIST BUMP::::: (none / 0)

by ProfRich on 08/13/2008 03:17:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Your comment (none / 0)
reminds me of how difficult it is to tell who's responding to what sometimes.

That goes under the "improved formatting" deal...though again, I'm not sure how practical that is, financially speaking since I'm not a tech-nerd.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 03:19:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's easy to tell once you get used to it. (none / 0)

Which may be another reason for an FAQ of some sort.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:26:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Not so easy - (none / 0)

and I never get used to it. Often wind up holding a straightedge to my screen and scrolling way, way upward to find out the long-lost comment someone was responding to. Awkward. But I'm not sure there's any easy fix that would please everyone.

What I find useful is when people insert funny pictures like this one: 

crowbar head 

by ashbul on 08/14/2008 02:49:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]
------->FIST BUMP RETURNED!! (none / 0)
And blown-up, of course.

As far as the moderator, I kinda disagree with you Spence. I don't want Dave (or anyone) constantly looking through every comment and post to judge it's worthiness, but I would like to stop spammers who aren't talking to or with anyone and most of the time aren't even commenting on anything relating to the inane b.s. they're posting (our recent addition, kozlo, for example... though I haven't checked to see if he/she has begun to act more civilized).

As far as the Recommend/Don't Recommend... yes, someone explain how the heck this works! I tried using it once or twice but it didn't seem to do anything.

As far as moderating punctuation, if anyone can stop me from using the winky-face, please do so. I need help ;-)

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:19:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
This is your intervention. :[ (none / 0)
For clarity, you don't disagree with me.  I said that I like the lack of moderator presence.  We're on the same page.

by Spencer on 08/14/2008 01:23:54 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Clarity escapes me at 1am (none / 0)
I meant that where I disagreed with you is that I do still want a moderator to stop the spammers as in the Kozlo scenario from last night.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 02:16:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh, I see. (none / 0)

by Spencer on 08/14/2008 02:37:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
gonna go make a post... (none / 0)
which will prolly get lost

by whoosh on 08/13/2008 03:36:53 PM EST

Fear not. (none / 0)
I got you.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 03:56:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Quite Happy (none / 0)
I've always been quite happy with the TYT forum so whatever you do, please don't make it resemble anything like Daily Kos as mentioned above.   Aft er hearing such incidents as Lee Stranahan getting banned, the thought of banning people for different opinions than the group mentality, sickens me.  Ok, I don't want to rant on Kos too much since there's plenty of good that comes out of there and of course it's their right to do whatever they please, but if I hear the word "troll" one more time - ug.

Re: More Participation - "If they build it, they will come"?   Aw man, not Costner - sorry for that image. 

by rev24 on 08/13/2008 04:26:55 PM EST

Yes (none / 0)

Let's change the word "troll" to just plain asshole again.  I'm partially kidding, but I feel like the little things like l33t speak (as the kids call it) tha keep the blogs from being taken more seriously.  It makes it look like a little geeky click sometimes.

I agree 100% percent with keeping the changes to a minimum as well. 

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 04:32:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
straight to the point (none / 0)
Sounds good Spencer - though I have to admit I don't know what l33t means.  I noticed if you look at the negative space, the 33 kind of looks like two pacmen. 
I also wanted to say that I really like the new recently commented feature.

by rev24 on 08/13/2008 04:45:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ditto (none / 0)
...

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 04:48:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ditto on the new feature. (none / 0)
And here's what "l33t" is.  I actually learned it when "woot" was put in the dictionary.  They mentioned "l33t speak" in one of the articles about that.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 04:49:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I clicked that link (none / 0)
and it opened in a new window (even though I just left clicked it)! What's up with that?? ;)

But yeah, I read about two sentences and the nerd factor was just too high for me. I actually felt my eye-glass lenses getting thicker.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 05:12:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
+(-)@/VX5 (none / 0)

by rev24 on 08/13/2008 05:12:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
To be fair to myself (again) (none / 0)
I didn't spontaneously create this thread. A couple of posters in another thread basically said they don't or won't participate often because too often the forum is filled with, um, intentional disruptors (do you prefer that to the "t" word?).

Others have made similar comments in the past, so I wouldn't dismiss it as just a few disgruntled people.

At any rate, I think adding more ideas into the mix is almost always a good thing, as long as they don't come from 'intentional disruptors'. And like Spencer and I said before, it'd be great if Cenk had more conservative/libertarian guests on to debate.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 04:38:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Don't let me hold you back (none / 0)
If they're enemy combatants - bag, tag, and throw 'em in the hole!  Wait, what were we talking about?  On a serious note (like being falsely labeled, stripped of all your rights, and thrown in a detention center to rot if lucky enough not be tortured, isn't serious?), I don't mean to dismiss your point, along with the others you mentioned. 

Oh one more thing - the only problem I've had of recent is that I've noticed it takes forever for some of the diary pages to load.  Quite possibly this is on my end, though it only happens on the TYT forum.  Is this the reason why Dave is so bitter about Internet Explorer?

by rev24 on 08/13/2008 05:00:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Good question (none / 0)
Dave totally hates IE.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 05:10:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
IE started screwing up... (none / 0)

 

...a couple of months ago, taking "dial-up" time to load or simply not loading at all. I use Firefox for the Turk site and it works fine (although for the last few days I have had to re-login EVERY time I visit).

Given my druthers, I'd rather IE worked. 

by MedfordTim on 08/13/2008 07:54:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
just downloaded FireFox (none / 0)
and it's working great so far on the TYT site - thanks!

by rev24 on 08/14/2008 01:27:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I hate IE too (none / 0)
But I can't get TYT to play properly in Firefox on any of the computers I've tried it on. Different versions of FF and all. TYT is about the only thing I use IE for now.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:21:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Weapon X (none / 0)
I don't have problems with it and I never use IE.  Firefox does require a certain activeX add-on to play video on sites like this.  ActiveX has long been the soft exposed underbelly of IE and that's why it isn't automatically enabled in Firefox, but they do have a fix that allows the video without exposing you to the security risks of full blown activeX controls.

by bfaul on 08/14/2008 11:09:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
A simple phpBB board would be nice (none / 0)
http://www.phpbb.com/

by Andrew Koenig on 08/13/2008 04:27:46 PM EST

LISTEN TO ANDREW! (none / 0)
HE IS WISE!

by jarett on 08/14/2008 05:47:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
my two cents (none / 0)

Thanks for a great post Nobias.

I am against moderation in general, but I also believe that the current atmosphere--where all personal attacks are allowed and sock puppets almost encouraged--will limit participation by newer members or those who aren't prepared to fight back when attacked, so the decision depends on what type of participation you want.  I have tried my best to be decent to Ken and yet he continues to resort to personal attacks when he can't come up with a response to a comment.  I'm not about to let him railroad me off of this site, so I have ended up attacking back.  I hate this bullying behavior on the forum and Ken knows that it keeps us from having more productive discussions.  One solution would be to have a "hide rating" like on Daily Kos, where if 3-5 people tag your comment as such, the comment disappears.  I doubt it will happen, but I'll mention it anyway.  I don't mind differing opinions, don't get me wrong.  I'm proud that Ken worries about my posts enough to attack me.  But it gets tiresome and I have been tempted to just stop posting. 

I am really shocked at the level of sock puppetry that goes on here too.  I would ban the use of sock puppets (users creating second and third identities).  All of a sudden there are people posting blogs that have never even commented, and some of them sound an awful lot like sock puppets. 

I like all subjects in one lump like now.  Not enough people are posting to warrant splitting into topics as far as I can tell. 

I don't consider Ken and Bobo to be trolls.  They are obviously regular participants.  But I do believe there are real trolls just out to destroy the conversation (sorry rev24).  I think feeding them is counterproductive.  An example of "real" trolling would be someone going on a pet rat forum to gloat about feeding live rats to snakes (no, I'm not sensitive, so don't bother Ken).  It just stirs shit up with nothing gained for anyone.  But I am just one person.  If others are entertained by such stuff, that's fine too.

Sometimes blogs get no comments because there really isn't much to respond to.  That's why I thought the Open Thread might be a good place for sharing some things.  I was thinking of starting a new one each week, and maybe Monday is better than Friday for that.  And thanks Ken, for using it strictly to lurk and then make condescending insults to me in another thread.  Why don't you try actually joining in some fun threads for once and being friendly?

by desertpear on 08/13/2008 05:12:19 PM EST

Feeding live rats to diamondbacks? (none / 0)
That sounds like fun!

I love snakes. They're so cute and cuddly.

by KenTX on 08/13/2008 05:27:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I love snakes too (none / 0)
Especially rattlesnakes.  see, we have things in common Ken.

by desertpear on 08/13/2008 06:10:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh yeah (none / 0)
I forgot about sock puppets. I understand why people are against moderators, but why would anyone be against multiple user accounts here, especially if they're being used to cause trouble?

And I agree on the open threads and the Fun Threads (that was the original point, to cut down on the in-fighting and get to know people outside of politics).

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 05:30:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sock Puppets! (none / 0)
Funny you should mention sock puppets - last week I was on an all out puppet/sock-puppet hunt.  I even went to Babies R Us and Toys R Us in my search, but came up empty handed.  What's this world coming to when you can't get yourself a decent puppet anymore.  I finally had to settle for a toy wrestler and some fisher price doll for a stop animation project I'm working on, though I will admit those Hannah Montanna and High School Musical dolls were pretty tempting.

BTW - no offense taken.  After seeing pictures on the Montauk monster and chupacabra this week on the show, I do believe trolls exists.  I just think the term is way over used to classify people who don't fit the defintion.

by rev24 on 08/13/2008 05:31:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I was going to mention Chuppy somewhere (none / 0)

How stupid does a person have to be to insist that a coyote with mange is a creature previously unknown to science?  I saw the video.  Bears can end up hairless from mange too--remember the last baby bigfoot photo?

by desertpear on 08/13/2008 06:18:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't know. (none / 0)

I don't want to see comments hidden because people rank them poorly.  That's a little too much for me.  The "real trolls" that you mentioned are obnoxious, but they're easily identified and their time here is usually pretty short.  The sock puppets are more annoying however, especially when certain participants use them to vote multiple times in user created polls and then brag about the poll turning out in their favor like an ass.

The open thread is great though.  If you want to do one every week, I wouldn't be against it.  And yes, everyone should get in on them on occasion (except for Drinky the Drunk Guy up there).  ;)

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 05:42:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The only problem with (none / 0)
a once a week open thread is that depending on when it's posted, it could be pushed off the homepage quickly by new threads.

PS---I wish we could type more in the subject lines. Not a big deal at all, just figured I'd mention it.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 05:44:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The open thread really only works if people can br (none / 0)

DAMN SUBJECT LINE!

The open thread really only works if people can bring themselves to look past the front page of forum stuff.  I've still been posting in the original open thread (along with a few other people).  Just bookmark it and check back occasionally.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 05:49:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
2 Points (none / 0)
1. That's too much of a pain in the ass for many people.

2. That thread will become too long and jumbled at some point.

Bonus Point: The Phantom Menace is horrible, outside of the fight with Darth Mal.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 05:52:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well... (none / 0)

That's why one a week would be good.

Bonus Point II: Bonus Point Goes West:  Jumping off of yesterday's show, I'm still waiting for Rich's "Michael Jordan is Overrated" thread.  Yup...  Still waiting...

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 06:44:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sob Story (none / 0)

I had actually started writing my Jordan post but then devastation struck.

I lost my flash drive, which had at least 100s of hours of spreadsheet and writings I had created, including the first draft of that post.

I am still going to write it (and then lay into another Illinois icon).  I am just a busy sumbitch.

Don't worry, its coming.  Its coming to your house.

(And lets all remember, I never said he wasn't great, I just don't think he deserves quite the level of fawning praise he gets)

by ProfRich on 08/13/2008 08:15:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Consider my breath... (none / 0)

bated.

(Though reading your caveat, I might be tempted to agree in some ways.) 

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 08:25:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh no you don't (none / 0)
Jordan was and always will be the best ever, according to peer reviewed and published research.*









*The End

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 08:27:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I totally agree that he's the best. (none / 0)
I brought this up because I just watched some of those old Bulls championship videos, and I think the fawning praise is, in most cases, valid.  But some people can go over the top with it.  We'll see what Rich has to say.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 08:34:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Fair Enough (none / 0)
We'll see.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 08:36:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Truce broken (none / 0)
And after all the attention I've put into not blindly insulting the South in consideration of Rich.

To paraphrase another Chicago sports figure (sort of)... "Stay out of Chicago business"

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:47:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Since I know Rich will eventually see and respond (none / 0)
I'm kidding, of course.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 02:04:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I love Chicago (none / 0)

I really do.  One of my favorite cities.  Best architecture in America, great food, great history, great baseball stadiums.

Got lost in Cabrini Green once, cops with shotguns in full riot gear stopped us thinking we were looking for drugs.  Made us undo our pants to search us, unloaded EVERYTHING from our car.

When they realized we were just three dumbass lost Texan college kids they were the nicest guys ever.

Even reloaded the car including our 30 pack cube of Old Style.  Put my beer back in the driver side cupholder for me.   It was awesome.

Hope to take my wife up there soon.  She has never been.

by ProfRich on 08/14/2008 06:02:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Lou Malnati's (none / 0)
Some people will tell you to eat a Giordano's pizza in Chicago. I can't argue, but Lou Malnati's is better (be sure to get the butter crust, it's only 75 cents more).

Chicago is such a great city. I would never think to move except for November-April, give or take. These winters are brutal and depressing.

by ihavenobias on 08/14/2008 10:20:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Field Museum of Natural History (none / 0)
Don't miss it.

by desertpear on 08/14/2008 05:03:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's my favorite museum (none / 0)
Kids prefer the Science and Industry museum, but I prefer the Field Museum.  But there's never enough time to see everything I like.

I've always love going in the giant teepee.

Oh, and generally I think "contemporary art" sucks, so I usually avoid the MOCA.

by ihavenobias on 08/15/2008 11:34:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
the "lobby" (none / 0)

Just going inside the Field Museum gave me chills in a good way.  Having spent time in SE Alaska and being interested in the culture and art of the Pacific Northwest, I was in awe at the totem poles and associated exhibits.  I could easily spend a week in there. 

I was stoked to go to the Adler Astronomy Museum, but it wasn't as cool as I had hoped.  No anti-gravity chamber or nothin!

Shedd is obviously a great place to take kids, but I have problems with their captive breeding of belugas.  Each baby brings in huge revenue, but many have died.  Implying that such captive breeding efforts contribute to conservation are pure bunk.  It's not like they are releasing baby belugas or anything.  But, child or adult, there is something wonderful about being able to get up close to one.  

by desertpear on 08/15/2008 11:58:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The Adler Planetarium (none / 0)
should be better than it is.

As for the Shedd, kids shmids! Screw those little shits, all they do is cry, pick their nose and clog up the walkways (oh, and smudge up the glass).

I'm all about the adult fun, you know, people with developed nervous systems who can actually appreciate the animals for more than 2 seconds.

;)

by ihavenobias on 08/15/2008 12:04:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Also (none / 0)
You can make more threads appear on your homepage in your "My Preferences" page.  I have 30 on mine right now, so it's pretty easy to keep track of old stuff.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 06:52:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah but (none / 0)
if only a handful of people do it...

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 06:55:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Then a handful of people are awesome? (none / 0)
Everyone doesn't share your insatiable desire for e-attention.  ;)  Maybe pear would be fine with a small group of participants.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 07:06:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
More participation (none / 0)
helps TYT (more people on the site means more people clicking on the ads, etc.), and the odds are it would provide a wider variety of ideas and opinions in the forum.

It's a win-win.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 07:12:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Right right right (none / 0)

You saw the winky face in there, right?

I agree completely, but we're talking about one thread.  I don't really care if everyone participates in it.  Let's get down to what is really important here, and that's what is best for me.  The open thread would be nice to help me waste time at work with some random e-smalltalk, and I know you all want to help with that (eventually getting me fired that is).

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 07:20:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I didn't know (none / 0)
you were specifically focusing on the open thread. I thought you meant the overall ideas and suggestions.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 07:36:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Open thread (none / 0)
Terrific point, on board 100% with the open thread. Especially for our more random discussions, which seem to happen quite often.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:59:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
yeah (none / 0)
Let the new people dig for it.  With all the new sockpuppets and conservative assholes, stuff is going to scroll off the front page faster and faster no matter what. 

by desertpear on 08/13/2008 07:19:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I insist (none / 0)
Pear, I insist that you start using the "Don't Recommend It" or whatever it's called button on the right side of the page when a troll/conservative asshole creates a BS thread.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 07:38:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I just started today (none / 0)
But what does it do?

by desertpear on 08/13/2008 07:55:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I ain't sayin' nuttin'... (none / 0)

 

...but if a UPS truck pulls up with a package you weren't expecting...RUN!!

by MedfordTim on 08/13/2008 07:59:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's a mystery. (none / 0)
If enough people click it, I guess we'll see what happens.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 08:00:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't know (none / 0)
but the mystery makes it more exciting.

The "Recommend It" button (if clicked enough times) used to make threads sticky in a sub-forum of "Greatest Threads". Since barely anyone used the button the "Greatest Threads" were mostly from the 90's (half joking). I'm not sure they're even on the homepage anymore?

Maybe the "Don't Recommend It" hides a thread? Notice you can click to see who has recommended a thread  (but I don't see that you can click to view who clicked the DON'T Recommend It" button).

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 08:00:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
LOL @both of you (none / 0)
This has to be resolved. Do a segment on it tomorrow guys! Seriously, Dave, Cenk, Ana... Jayar? Someone clear up what this does and how to properly use it.

by Weapon X on 08/14/2008 01:51:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]
They dont care (none / 0)
about the Forum...its expected that a political website have a Forum of some type. They have the box checked,thats all you can hope for here.

by MRFred on 08/14/2008 12:38:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ah-hah! (none / 0)
It's exactly that type of cynical apathy that ensures that nothing will change.

As a consumer and member your constructive criticism should be encouraged and considered carefully. And as a fan of the show (assuming you want it to grow) you have an obligation to hope for more. Come on old man, shake off that rust!

;)

by ihavenobias on 08/14/2008 01:18:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Right... (none / 0)
Come on old man, shake off that rust!

That wouldn't have been my first choice of motivational phrases.

by MRFred on 08/14/2008 01:41:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Damn (none / 0)
I knew there was a reason my career as a motivational speaker never took off. :(

But look, a MrFred is like a fine wine...

by ihavenobias on 08/14/2008 01:49:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Blast from the Past (none / 0)

Ah sock puppetry...an under appreciated art form..at one time in the dim dark past  I would estimate that about 1/3 of the respondents at TYT were sock puppets of some type...usually trolls.

 

Sock Puppets
A Sock is a wonderful thing. It can warm a foot, that's for sure. Better yet, it can become a zillion different critters. Sock puppets are easy to make. All you need to do is start with a sock.

1. Put the sock on your hand so that your fingers and thumb are in the toe and the back of your wrist is in the heel.
2. To make room for your puppet's mouth, make a slit in the sock between your thumb and fingers.

Step 1 makeing a sock puppet
3. Cut an oval 3 inches across and 5 inches long. Using the first oval as a pattern, make 2 more ovals, one of posterboard or milk bottle plastic (something semi rigid), and one of fabric. Leave enough room so you can type!
step 2 how to make a sock puppet
4. Glue the fabric oval to the posterboard (rigid) oval with white glue.
5. After the glue has begun to dry, fold them in half the short way.
6. Sew folded oval into your sock. Finally, your puppet can talk.
stpe three making a sock puppet

7. Now the fun begins! What your puppet becomes depends on you. Think eyes, hair, ears, hats, mustaches, beards, eyebrows, noses, collars, neckties, shirts and dresses. No brains are required.
finished sock puppet
These puppets are fun and extremely lovable. You can even use these to brainwash impressionable young children into right-wing ideology! Best of all they can plagiarize material from Rush Limbaugh , pretend to look for meaningful discourse by asking for constructive comments...and be really fun trolls! Try Them.

by MRFred on 08/13/2008 05:47:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Admit it, MRFred (none / 0)
They say you can recognize the lion by its claw, and I feel pretty certain I've recognized your claw in at least one "sock puppet" here.  Am I wrong?

by bfaul on 08/13/2008 05:55:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Do tell.. (none / 0)

Back in the day we were infected by two of the biggest trolls that ever straped on a dildo, ,  chuzlife and his puppet bytchbang I was known to use a puppet or two for nose tweaking. 

The puppet would launch into some , If I do say so myself,pretty hilarious blogs satirizing the idiotic abortion and "are you a liberal" questionnaires and general idiocy those two seemed to love so much. Actually it wasn't so much a sock puppet as it was a "group" account used by several people.

Once Mr Bang got really frustrated when he though "bytchbanq", note the q, had stolen his identity and had his personal info he finally quit and left.Of course I didn't, the moron could not understand that spelling counts when in come to nics...

With victory and a date certain for withdrawl, I had Dave retire " Global Feetus" and "BytchBanq"

 Now...no, no need really.

by MRFred on 08/13/2008 11:24:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wow... (none / 0)

Now can you tell us about when the tall ships came in?

I remember KenTex showing up fairly recently.  Was that OneHitKill or you?  I was never quite clear on that.

by Spencer on 08/14/2008 02:41:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Wudn't me (none / 0)
I haven't made a sockpuppet since ChuzLyfe with a "Y."  That's the only name I've ever used here other than OneHitKill and JesseJace.  (I don't like sock puppets to get all the credit when I write something funny.  That's why I hardly ever use them.)

by OneHitKill on 08/14/2008 04:12:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Uh...Ok (none / 0)

should I strap on my best peg leg and let fly with a few Arrrgh!(s)?

Operation Sail  brings tall ships from around the world to NYC the week of the 4th of July. If you have never be underway on a square rigged ship...you owe it to yourself. It is amazing...just think that silly insignificant wind power drove commerce for centuries.

by MRFred on 08/14/2008 10:09:09 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Eh... Forget it. (none / 0)

It was just an old timer "joke" that I posted too late.  There's not much to get.

But I assume from that answer that you weren't KenTex then?  The mystery continues... 

by Spencer on 08/14/2008 02:55:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Now your just insulting me! (none / 0)
But I assume from that answer that you weren't KenTex then?

Now I'm really hurt...but lets review:

  • Is my head flat with large sunken dull eyes and a sloping forehead? Nope
  • Has life size blowup Ronald Reagan doll. Nope
  • Takes liberties with small farm animals? Nope
  • Has JR Ewing fantasy? Nope
  • Secretly a member of the Clay Akin Fan club? Nope

No not me.

by MRFred on 08/14/2008 05:30:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No no no (none / 0)
I'm not insulting you.  I'm talking about KenTeX, not KenTX.  It's a subtle difference.

by Spencer on 08/14/2008 05:39:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I can see sock puppets having a place (none / 0)
I don't know why, but maybe I was just picking up too many sock puppet vibes this past couple of days.  I hope it self regulates.  It's probably too much trouble to do it all the time and do it well. 

by desertpear on 08/14/2008 03:19:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I thought so (none / 0)
I remember that.  It was very entertaining.   They were so over the top I was almost fond of them.  Almost.

by bfaul on 08/14/2008 10:37:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Over the top? (none / 0)
You mean being called a traitor and being threatened with hanging, having photoshops of fetuses being plastered all over the place, the ever endearing "shut your cock holster" and "fucktard", the insults to Jill, basically calling her a whore and all that fun stuff. You don't miss that?

by MRFred on 08/14/2008 12:32:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I didn't bother (none / 0)

to read the whole thread.

The answer to your question abot a more active moderator is and the rest is.....

No we don't.

People are aware of the recommended and posting votes.

The best thing about this forum is you don't  have big brother breathing down your back all the time. You are allowed to cross the line here. Anyone who has ever been banned here is because they really crossed the line.

 

by z1p101 on 08/13/2008 11:00:05 PM EST

Eh (none / 0)
A lot of people aren't aware of what the Recommend It and Don't Recommend It buttons do actually.

You'd know that if you had "bothered" to read the whole thread. ;)

PS---Multiple usernames to mess with people is childish and obnoxious and I don't think that's Big Brotherish in any way. Hell, it's like Cenk says, the argument shouldn't be "regulation or no regulation". The reasonable argument is how much regulation. The answer might be very little, but it sure as hell ain't "none" IMO. I point to the multiple usernames as an example.

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 11:08:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
True (none / 0)
Now let's all go read Kozlo's comments for a refresher course on why sock puppets are bad.

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 11:11:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Multiple user names? (none / 0)

There are few who have them. Some use them to make a comedic point (haven't seen that in a while here, has anyone seen global lately?).  Some use them for some unknown reason but don't jump back (OHK help me out). Some nick jump like Tiny but everyone can always spot them. Some come back after being banned for really crossing the line (BB we miss you). Some just want to test the waters.

I've been posting here for a while and I can tell you that odd ball names and nicks come and go like the breeze. We don't need some big brother trying to figure out who they are or deciding if they should speak here.

by z1p101 on 08/13/2008 11:26:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Great (none / 0)
That's your opinion and you're free to have it. Just understand that not everyone agrees. No one is looking to change things radically, or to change things just for the sake of change. I realize people who've been around for a long time can get comfortable and protective.

At any rate, I wasn't the one who initially raised the issue of sock puppets in this thread, someone else did. 

Over my time here, I've seen a decent number of people comment or PM me to say that they're leaving because of trolls and or sock puppets, etc. Obviously I haven't left and I'm not going anywhere either way, but I don't see anything wrong with asking the masses for constructive criticism on how to make the forum better (including formatting and FAQ's to be more user friendly for newer members).

That is what progressives do after all, make progress (keep the good, ditch the bad if possible). If we wanted things to always stay the same, we'd be conservatives.

:)

by ihavenobias on 08/13/2008 11:36:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sigh (none / 0)

Look, whatever.

"At any rate, I wasn't the one who initially raised the issue of sock puppets in this thread, someone else did."

It was here long before we showed up. See this? 

That post originated before us both. I rememb