Bush baiting Russia into a conflict?

Now that the whole Islamo fascist terrorist thing isn't as effective as it used to be to scare Americans, are the Republicans trying to create a new boogey man? Going back to the golden oldies: Russians!

Remember in April when Bush wanted Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO, which France and Germany (supported by Italy, Belgium, Luxemburg, Netherlands and Hungary) effectively blocked from happening, because they forsaw trouble: both Ukraine and Georgia have disputed borders and break away provinces, which
would effectively drag NATO into a possible war, if say Russia got involved in a war with one of them.

Might be a bit conspiracy theory at this point, but a pattern is forming: Bush has been setting up these conflicts with Russia:
 
- NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia
- missile shield in Poland and Czech Republic
- talking points in support of Georgie and calling Russia the big bad wolf
- threatening to throw them out of international organizations
 
In my opinion you can also add the whole Iran thing to this, if the US attacks Iran, Russia will probably get dragged into to this, Russia has too many Iranian interests, including building of nuclear reactors and massive conventional arms sales.

BTW the whole Georgia thing, where the Georgian government was emboldened enough to start military action, especially with US training of Georgian forces, smells a lot like the Golf War, where Saddam was emboldened enough to invade Koeweit. Saddam was genuinely surprised when the US objected (don't forget Saddam was a US ally in the 80s) some say he got the go ahead from Washington, Washington would not object to the invasion.

Let's not forget it's summer, people are paying less attention, an ideal time to get new disasters rolling.
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Your shit's weak son!

by Spencer on 08/13/2008 06:47:40 PM EST

Nothing says I am a Fox News/Hannity/O'Reilly/Rush zombie like telling the Democrats what they think and then taking great pride in tearing the straw man they built down.

Enjoy arguing with yourself!

by ProfRich on 08/13/2008 08:13:00 PM EST

as with so many conservatives, you can't seem to read too well :)

1.  This conflict in Georgia is Bush's fault.

never wrote that

look Putin and Saakashvili have been playing games for a long time, the US wanting more strategic influence in the region backed Saakashvili, going as far as training Georgian troops, now some in the Bush administration would love a confrontation with Russia, Bush aka the clueless one goes along with these elements and buys into the whole good/evil thing that people smarter than him are feeding him
look do I now what the motives are of the Cheney's of the world: no, they can be plentiful:
- idealogical
- war profiteering
- creation of a boogeyman to scare and control the American people once more
- excuse to built bases on Georgian soil
- ...

2.  This all about big oil, again.

never wrote that either

3.  Bush lied and kids died.  Is that right, libs? 

actually yes, Bush lied and Iraqi kids died

out of touch with reality

I am so out of touch with YOUR reality, that's true

btw conservative values, what are those? raping kids? ballooning the debt? discrimination? women are second class humans? torture? police state? justice for the ultra rich, none for the rest?

by callisto on 08/13/2008 08:14:35 PM EST

Kozlo's got the indominable spirit.  But that all goes down the toilet when he uses idiotic non-words like "libs."  Don't call us "libs" unless you want to be called a "con."

Ya stinkin' con. 

by OneHitKill on 08/14/2008 04:27:12 AM EST

That georgia was egged on by the US support for their Nato application plus the "pimp-my-army"-pr ogram, and also that they made a terrible mistake in shooting at russian...peace keepers??..in South Ossetia. I think its also true that the Russians were just waiting for this to happen so they could milk the situation dry. Nobody puts that ammount of forces in another country at a days notice unless they were already poised to do so.

Bottom line. Saakashvili, trying to outmaneuver a strategically brilliant x-KGB intelligence officer, learned how they play in the big league.

The whole "IT ABOUT OIL" spiel is too simple. Should be: "Its also about oil, and russian patriotism (look our army can win, forget tjetjenia), about giving the finger to the western world (EU/US) and telling them to back off.

by whoosh on 08/14/2008 07:08:30 AM EST

I'm not certain Saakashvili got outmaneuvered, could be, but at this point it's not certain yet.
Depending on what the Bush administration will do, I see that Republicans are keeping up with demonizing Russia, so if the US is actually stupid enough to do something, it means Saakashvili knew what the US was going/promised to do.
Everytime I've seen Saakashvili, he's playing the media game very well: speaking in English, having EU flags in the background, emphasizing that there's no martial law, that the press isn't censored, democracy is well in Georgia, ....

let's see what happens next

on a side note, talking about Tsjetsjenia: saw a piece about the big convoy that has encircled Gori now, they had been driving for 4 days, coming from... Tsjetsjenia. Moral booster for those soldiers?

by callisto on 08/14/2008 10:50:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Slick.

Watched him comment on McCain's "We are all Georgian" slogan. He was pretty much challenging McCain to put some boots on the ground, which did strike me as odd. Who's the President in the U.S. anyways?

I do think that there should be some show of force but that the soldiers should be wearing blue hats...i.e. U.N. Peace keepers. If they are going back to the way things were we are talking russian "peace keepers".   

by whoosh on 08/14/2008 02:29:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]

McCain's reaction to the Georgia Crisis might be the most dramatic, inappropriate and pathetic example ever of a candidate for president acting like he's already president.

Where the fuck does he get off telling the current commander-in-chief where and how to deploy the military in a war zone!

Its really outrageous.  Too bad we don't have a media.

by ProfRich on 08/14/2008 03:31:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It made me cringe. 

by desertpear on 08/14/2008 04:36:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
maybe the election has already been decided in favor of McCain? or let's put it this way: has anyone done shit to fix all those "broken" voting machines

by callisto on 08/14/2008 07:04:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That is always my repressed nightmare!

by desertpear on 08/14/2008 09:37:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]

From fivethrityeight.com

This is a pretty natural fear to have after 2000. However, if there is actually a recount, or some other kind of rules dispute around the election, it is more likely to be resolved in the Democrats' favor. That is because, of the 15 most important states according to our Tipping Point metric, the Secretary of State is a Democrat in 11 of them, and the governor is a Democrat in 12 of them. The tally follows below the jump.

<pre>State SOS Governor
Ohio Democrat Democrat

Michigan Republican Democrat
Virginia Democrat Democrat
Iowa Democrat Democrat
New Mexico Democrat Democrat
New Hampshire Democrat Democrat
Florida Republican Republican
Pennsylvania Democrat Democrat
Nevada Democrat Republican
Indiana Republican Republican
Montana Republican Democrat
Oregon Democrat Democrat
New Jersey Democrat Democrat
Wisconsin Democrat Democrat
</pre>

by ProfRich on 08/14/2008 11:44:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
realized there was a whole country whith the same name, or that he didn't think it was named after him or his father. i may have misunderestimated him

by holy noize on 08/15/2008 12:12:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
it wasn't only Harris, it was also the Dems cringing when the Repugs started to call them the worst names and accusing them of misdoings

I'm not that hopefull that these Dems would have the backbone to stand up against Repug lies when they start screaming foul and fraude, which will undoubtely be echoed by the media

by callisto on 08/15/2008 06:38:09 AM EST

[ Parent ]
wow, twice I caught you on not knowing the news

Obama is for NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia, I even made a post about it

Obama doesn't need to address every foolish idea McCain states, he should however address every lie

by callisto on 08/15/2008 06:41:39 AM EST

forgot: wow, twice I caught you on not knowing the news in a day

by callisto on 08/15/2008 06:42:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]

And you complain to me for posting your private information?  Never send me another private message on this subject, you phony.

(Ken blames OneHitKill for posting his "personal information" on the forum, even though most of the KenTX family information available online comes from posts Ken made himself...like this one.  And this one.  And this one. And this one.  And others.)

by OneHitKill on 08/15/2008 07:46:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Damn, how did I miss this great comment:

"They were pushed off their lands because their culture was inferior and did not allow for the development of advanced technology which put them at a disadvantage in the competition for resources."

"As a descendant of Native American ancestors, I have to agree with this comment 100%. Indians didn't recognize land as something that could be owned and developed. They couldn't get with the program and adapt to the new paradigm and technologies."

wow, I didn't realize someone with Indian blood could be so ignorant of American history.  Maybe it was hard to "adapt to the new paradigms" when you were being slaughtered, enslaved, starved out, and deliberately exposed to deadly diseases for which you had no immunity. 

Ken, in my very humble opinion, you are unworthy of your ancestor's blood.  No Indian I know is as full of self-loathing as you.

by desertpear on 08/16/2008 10:38:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]

The three primary reasons the Indians lost to the whites are, in order of importance:

1) Lack of adequate immune systems (#1 by a long shot).

2) Failure to see it as a "white civilization vs. red civilization" conflict and instead view each individual battle as a tribe vs. tribe conflict.

3) Marginally inferior military tech.  Horses and canon were a massive advantage for the Euros, flintlock and matchlocks were equally or less effective than most Native bows.

But Ken is a Kon and all he can fathom is guns and how awesome they are so there you have it.

by ProfRich on 08/17/2008 12:16:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks Rich.  I would also add that the various regions and tribes experienced very different challenges and threats.  If anyone is interested, this is an interesting history of what happened in California, with many links.  And what a sad story it is.  My sister is an archaeologist in California, which has made me more aware of the history of the missions. 

by desertpear on 08/17/2008 04:35:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
1. Obama has never been my first choice, but he's still a hell of a lot better than McCain

2. there is a difference between having the opinion that Georgia and Ukraine should join NATO and activily pushing for it, I don't think Obama would have pushed so hard as Bush

3. Obama's support for Georgia has been far more nuanced than Bush and McCain, far less calling Russia the big evil

4. Obama is a fool on the subject of the missile shield then, but again I don't think Obama would push it through if he knew that 70% of Poles and Czechs are against it

5. you're an embarrassment to your Spanish ancestry, oh wait must have been the Franco side :)

6. really, we're going to start calling names now? I'm certain my arsenal is a hell of a lot bigger so... oh wait I could just take your insult and call you a racist, because that insult seems to be racist

by callisto on 08/15/2008 07:57:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Could it be he was talking about Bush using American taxpayer dollars given to US defense contractors to create, from whole cloth, a Georgian military to create a fake ally in the Iraq War (a sock puppet if you will.)

I am pretty sure without our their military, they wouldn't have gone off waving their penis in Russia's face like they did.

But, like everything else that has happened for the last eight years, I am sure you will tell us there was no way to see that coming.

by ProfRich on 08/15/2008 08:56:22 AM EST

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