08/15/2008 09:51:53 PM EST

Genocide was a lie

posted by callisto

http://online.wsj.com/artic le/SB121874784363742015.htm l?mod=googlenews_wsj
http://www.businessweek.com /blogs/russia_oil_politics/ archives/2008/08/the_genoci de_in.html
....

follow up to http://www.theyoungturks.co m/story/2008/8/12/135519/50 5/Diary/Another-war-more-Am erican-simplicity

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While one side of the US media was reporting genocide by the Georgians, the European press only stated that Putin had accused Georgians of genocide, nothing more, since they didn't see proof of it

... result:

no proof for the Genocide, a fabricated lie by Putin and the South-Ossesians to justify Russia putting it's troups in Georgia

According to Russia and South-Ossetia there had been thousands of civilians murdered, now local officials say they found 200 bodies, but international observers count even fewer bodies.

Human Rights Watch's first report states that they were only able to find 48 civilian deads so far

American media failed once more, they are too willing to accept propaganda as truth, when governments make statements, it's the job of the press to see whether it's accurate
Kudos for European press
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Genocide was a lie | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
Yeah, but that's still (none / 0)
48 civilians killed by the georgians

by holy noize on 08/16/2008 12:58:44 AM EST

it is a war (none / 0)
+ wait until we see the numbers on how many the Russians and seperatists killed, Russians also shelled some towns, so probably it'll even out

by callisto on 08/16/2008 05:51:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
the links refers to kosovo, (none / 0)
not bosnia, but still you have a point

by holy noize on 08/16/2008 01:42:16 AM EST

Are you insane (none / 0)
or just trying to be funny?

First of you got your talking points mixed up or did they change, since Clinton was prooved right about Osama?

at the time people were accusing Clinton of dropping bombs on Afghanistan to get the Lewinsky affair off the front page, even I tought it. It seems I and many in the media were wrong and way too cynical, damn a cynical media, where did that go?

Now to your point: really the wars in former Yugoslavia happened to get people's minds of a BJ? Say did you also see aliens last night and they give you a nice anal probe maybe?

Lewinsky broke on January 21, 1998, the Yugoslav Wars started in 1991 with the Bosnian War starting in '92 and Kosovo War in '96!!!! I know I know historical facts have no place in a conservative mind

by callisto on 08/16/2008 06:06:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
This is the greatest post ever (none / 1)
Ken Writes

bosnia? kosovo? Who gives a shit? It was all a contrived war, designed to get Monica Lewinsky off the front page.

This captures Con debate logic to the core.

Facts don't matter. Just throw the crap out and hope it sticks.

Hitler killed Jews or was it Stalin? Who gives a shit, it was all about killing Jews.

Russia attack Georgia or was it China? Who gives a shit it was all to get Bush's fuck ups off the front page.
Osama was responsible for 9-11 or was it Saddam? Who gives a shit it gave us an excuse to go into Iraq and get some OIL.

Facts don't matter and no matter how often you point it out to a CON whose falling for the CON of the Con's it doesn't matter.

Thanks Ken, you have demonstrated better than anyone how things like "facts" mean nothing in the logic of the con.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 08/16/2008 10:03:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ken is right on this one... (none / 0)
Hubble, you of all people on here are smart enough to realize that when we're talking politics and history and elections, facts really dont mean shit...

Take this Georgia Russia event going on - everyones view or versions of the facts are so altered and skewed that no one over here really knows what the Hell is going on - facts be damned. When Russia takes that oil pipeline they are after, it aint gonna matter whose facts were correct, is it?

Many of you Liberals still believe that facts matter and that the truth is what drives the political process in the world - They are sadly mistaken, and its time they realize it!!!

Kens point on this is right on target - It doesnt matter when the Bosnian thing started - it started about 1200 years ago if you really want to know, but our involvement in the political sense was to distract Americans from Bill and Monica...

Sad but True...



by bobo1 on 08/16/2008 11:11:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I guess (none / 0)
all of NATO colluded with Clinton to help cover up his affair.

by Tullius on 08/16/2008 12:29:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Also (none / 0)

As mentioned earlier, you can only be thinking of the NATO bombing of Kosovo at the end of the Kosovo war, not the Bosnian conflict, which occurred prior to the revelation of the Lewinsky thing (perhaps even prior to the affair itself).

Bobo, didn't you say that you are a teacher?

by Tullius on 08/16/2008 12:39:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Again, you miss miss my point... (none / 0)
When Americans think about our involvement in the Bosnian/Serbian/Yugoslavian conflict of the 90s, what period do they remember? Our bombing (NATO) whatever in the latter half of the conflict, late 90s.

Most people arent interested in knowing that ethnic Serbs, Muslims, Croats, Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians etc have been fighting in this area since, oh, the Crusades period in the 1200s. (and some would argue even earlier than that)

When Americans were put on the news and into the political discussion concerning Kosovo/Bosnia - it was right around the time that old Billy Boy was getting blown and staining blue dresses...

Again, facts are facts, but they are meaningless when it comes to perception and reality...

Ken was right about why we decided to intervene in that area. Just admit it...

:)

by bobo1 on 08/16/2008 12:46:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Quite poor... (none / 0)

The facts are not irrelevant, and your grasp of them is meagre. Our involvement in the Bosnia affair, culminating with the Dayton accords, preceeded the Lewinsky thing. Our involvement in the NATO bombing did not, but not too many people associate that with the Lewinsky scandal, so your claims about how the public perceives it is off track.

 The only foreign policy action that people might associate with the Lewinsky scandal is the bombing of Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998.

 

 

by Tullius on 08/16/2008 12:53:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
One thing we can all agree on! (none / 0)

Whatever Clinton did to counter the blowjob thing, it worked!  Right, Ken?

I mean seriously, people LOVED that guy.

Still do.

Maybe George should have fessed up to a blowjob.  Or at least a coke fueled, Laura-beating drunken binge.

Maybe 8 out of 10 Americans wouldn't hate him right now.

Just a thought.

by ProfRich on 08/16/2008 05:36:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Now Rich that's not fair (none / 0)
Pointing out facts like Clinton's approval ratings kept going up while the Con men slammed him is unfair.

Pointing out facts like Clinton would have been reelected if it weren't for term limits is unfair.

Let's see at the end of 8 years of Bill the people wanted more, at the end of 8 years of Shrub the people are begging him to go back to his day job as the village idiot of Crawford.

Is it me are do the Con post seem to be taking on a shrill whine to them?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 08/16/2008 06:59:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The Kons have Kollapsed (none / 0)

When was the last time they ran out a halfway decent argument.

Ken is making one feint and then spiraling wildly off topic these days.

It's like: "So Lew Ayers, huh?"

30 overwhelming rebuttals/counterattacks.

"I was better than you at high school football!*"

The quality has just vanished.

And Ken is their ace!

 

 

*"But not as good as my dad."

by ProfRich on 08/16/2008 08:26:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
you guys have so emasculated poor Ken (none / 0)
That he has been forced to turn to attacking little old ladies on the forum!  (me) ;)

by desertpear on 08/16/2008 10:09:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My dear Pear it's not Ken's fault (none / 0)
As obsessed with Bill Clinton and Monica as Ken is, I really believe (to steal a line from Good Morning Vietnam) Ken is in more dire need of a blow job than any white man in history!

After a few years that can make a man pretty cranky.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 08/17/2008 12:25:46 AM EST

[ Parent ]
for Ken (none / 0)

by desertpear on 08/17/2008 12:32:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
huah? (none / 0)

"...facts are facts, but they are meaningless when it comes to perception and reality..."

Maybe this particular sentiment is why the Republican party is falling out of favor with the American people.  We now have the internet to make it easier to check on the veracity of information sources.

by desertpear on 08/16/2008 01:09:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
that make no sense at all (none / 0)
facts are facts, but they are meaningless when it comes to perception and reality

facts are reality, sure not your reality, but the rest would call that a delusion

BTW at the time, I watched the news, people were linking Afganistan to Lewinsky not Bosnia or Kosovo

it's not because you cons are rethinking this now, that changes the past

by callisto on 08/16/2008 05:57:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Argh (none / 0)

No one is defending Clinton. What we are insisting on is that you respect facts, to wit: US involvement in the Bosnian war, which culminated in the Dayton accords, preceeded the Lewinsky scandal; the US involvement in the Kosovo war was a part of a NATO exercise, and as such, if the reason for the bombing campaign was to divert attention from the Lewinsky scandal, then either the leaders of NATO nations were either foolish, or complicit in the coverup.

by Tullius on 08/16/2008 06:16:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
apples and oranges (none / 1)
Kens point on this is right on target - It doesn't matter when the Bosnian thing started - it started about 1200 years ago if you really want to know, but our involvement in the political sense was to distract Americans from Bill and Monica...


Bobo, let's really tell some truth. For the REPUBLICANS it didn't matter what the reason was. If we bombed it was wrong, if we didn't it was wrong. Bottom line, spin any action to make it look bad for Bill. Unfortunately for the Cons it didn't work, Bill's approval level still went up.

Now for anyone with a modicum of intelligence to believe your supposition we must believe that the ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP OF NATO agreed to start bombing Kosovo to help out Bill and get Monica off the front page.

IT WAS A NATO OPERATION BOY AND GIRLS.

For the cons out there let me repeat myself so perhaps they can begin to understand.
 
IT WAS A NATO OPERATION BOY AND GIRLS.

NATO's objectives in the conflict in Kosovo were set out in the statement issued at the Extraordinary Meeting of the North Atlantic Council held at NATO HQ on 12 April 1999 and were reaffirmed by Heads of State and Government in Washington on 23 April 1999:

Bill, gave the United States approval so that NATO forces could begin the campaign but it included ALL members of NATO.

Of course those devoted to Newspeak, it doesn't matter what history WAS, it's what history IS as written by the Right Wing Con Machine.

Now if instead of saying but our involvement in the political sense was to distract Americans from Bill and Monica...

You had said

but our involvement in the political sense the was the Republicans were going to accuse the Administration of trying to distract Americans from Bill and Monica...then we might have a REAL conversation

Bobo, I really expected a little better from you. 

Are you becoming a caricature of yourself?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 08/16/2008 12:54:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
NATO Schnato (none / 0)

There you go with those pesky facts again. <snark> ;)

by desertpear on 08/16/2008 01:10:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Maybe you guys are just a little jealous (none / 0)
Democrats keep getting caught having sex with women, Repugs on the other hand keep getting caught sticking it to guys or kids and in the off change that it's a woman, she's always a hooker

by callisto on 08/16/2008 07:25:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
They can't even score with their pet tranny (none / 0)
Man Coulter.

by ProfRich on 08/16/2008 11:58:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Genocide was a lie | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
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