Fundamentals of the Economy

Email Print posted by yturks 09/16/2008 03:38:43 PM EST

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Yesterday in chat room discussions with TYT viewers I said that McCain's comment that the fundamentals of our economy are strong or sound was defensible, depending on what he means by "fundamentals".  After all, the US is not like Haiti or Zimbabwe at the moment.  (MedfordTim suggested that maybe the comment is "arguable", but not defensible.  That might be a better description.)  Of course, the person to defend the comment would be the man who made it, John McCain.  

So in this clip he is asked to defend his comment, and he fails completely.  He has no defense; he doesn't know what he's talking about.  I like to be careful of over-hyped, out-of-context partisan slamming of candidate comments.  (Republicans are only about 80 times more guilty of this than Democrats, and yes, that number is based on my scientific analysis.)

But if McCain can't even explain his own comment, I sure have no interest in doing it for him.  I retract my not guilty plea, and allow all TYT fans to dump all they want on McCain for his "fundamentals are strong".  I pardon you.  Go forward.

David PS: The video clip, from MSNBC, is actually not that great so I don't necessarily recommend it if you are short on time.

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Fundamentals of the Economy | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
the economic expertise of McCain the liar (none / 0)
Here is the full segment

He sure looks like a zombie in interviews lately, sort of close to death.  And the more he stands behind his lies, the crankier he gets.  If you watch the whole segment, he includes yet another lie regarding his grasp of economics.  Watch from 6:00 to about 6:30 in the clip:

"I know how to fix this economy.  I've had great experience on economic issues as Chairman of the Commerce Committee and being involved in these issues ever since...Reagan..."

And you gotta love his little slip up:
"People like Fannie and Freddie..."

by desertpear on 09/16/2008 03:52:26 PM EST

On Second Though... (none / 0)
OK, just because McCain is an idiot and ignoramus, doesn't mean I can't attempt to explain how the fundamentals of the economy are strong. What are the fundamentals of an economy?  I want to break it down to it's absolute most essential elements.  I'll take a shot at it, at the risk of inviting terrible scorn from the TYT community.

The fundamentals of the economy are that human beings through their labor, both physical and intellectual, and by means of exploitation of available natural resources, generate goods and services that are distributed and exchanged throughout society in exchange for other goods and services, in a sustainable manner.  That's not bad for a geologist and radio producer.  As I wake up this morning, I think that is still occurring in the United States, therefore the fundamentals of our economy are sound.

Thank you for your time.

David

by yturks on 09/16/2008 03:52:39 PM EST

may be true (none / 0)
But when McCain says it, it seems like a line of BS.
You're a geologist??  Who knew?  I work with many top-notch geologists.  Want to send your resume?

by desertpear on 09/16/2008 03:58:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Question for Dave (none / 0)

Is this what you believe are the fundamentals of the economy or your interpretation of what McCain was trying to weasel into?

Because I don't think that is what most people think are the fundamentals of the economy.  I think most people think the underlying factors that determine its success or failure or the fundamentals.

Things like unemployment levels, interest rates, availability of investment capital, costs of key resources (like oil), infrastructure, purchasing power and the like.

Your (McCain's?) definition is essentially true ALL THE TIME.  It was true in the Great Depression for chrissakes.

It is a statement so universal as to be meaningless.  At least in American experience.

As I type I am trying to imagine when these fundamentals were not strong.  During the Black Plague?  Europe right after WWII?  If this is what McCain means, he is an idiot.  He might as well say the fundamentals of the environment are strong because plants still grow and the sun still shines.

by ProfRich on 09/16/2008 04:25:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My Definition (none / 0)
ProfRich, for no apparent reason, I am attempting to defend McCain's comment.  That definition of the fundamentals of the economy is mine. I would fall off my chair if any politician ever defined the fundamentals of the economy along those lines.

I can almost agree that my definition is so basic as to be meaningless, and by extension, McCain's comment is also meaningless.

ProfRich, the elements of the economy that you list are not "fundamental".  Those are modern financial creations used to facilitate basic economic activity.  I would argue that there are plenty of times that my fundamentals are not strong. In Sudan, or at least the Darfur region.  In Haiti. Even in the US during the Great Depression - there was a severe lack of opportunity to perform and be rewarded for one's labor, and for an enormous percentage of the population the exchange of goods and services was halted.

David

by yturks on 09/16/2008 05:01:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Fundamentals (none / 0)

The things that ProfRich cites, namely "unemployment levels, interest rates, availability of investment capital, costs of key resources, infrastructure, purchasing power" are not modern creations. The use of measurements of them to indicate the strength of the economy may be a modern creation, but clearly they themselves are not.

These elements are essential to the question as to whether the consumer base is in a position to purchase goods and services in a manner that will lead to a thriving economic situation, and surely this is one of the things that is of central importance when determining whether the fundamentals of our economy are strong.

by Tullius on 09/16/2008 05:34:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Great point (none / 0)

Just because no one understood the in the past doesn't mean they didn't matter.

Thanks for the backup.

by ProfRich on 09/16/2008 11:31:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
David, you left out Financials (none / 0)

If our economy was based on the barter system, then the fundamentals of our economy would be as you describe.  But our economy is based on currency, and the financial institutions that control that currency have as much or more to do with the strength of our economy as supply and demand.  In other words, the fundamentals of our economy can be broken down into financial institutions, manufacturing, and labor.  If any one of these fails, the fundamentals of our economy fail.

Financial institutions - dropping like flies

Manufacturing - what manufacturing?  you mean the manufacturing that got shipped to China?

Labor - actually, the good ol' American workers are the bright side of our economy.  They are more productive than ever, even though their wages are declining and costs of living are increasing.

There is also the service industry as a fundamental part of our economy, but I would contend that a service based economy, by its very nature, is a weak economy because it feeds off the many to benefit the few.

(btw, I learned economics from John Kenneth Galbraith in college, so my knowledge of economics has a somewhat liberal slant.)

by rbruck on 09/16/2008 05:17:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0)

"The fundamentals of the economy are that human beings through their labor, both physical and intellectual, and by means of exploitation of available natural resources, generate goods and services that are distributed and exchanged throughout society in exchange for other goods and services, in a sustainable manner."

As far as I know, this was true before the Great Depression as well.  After the market and the banks collapsed and the money tightened up, they let all those workers go and you had widespread unemployment.  I don't think they were unwilling to work, they just couldn't get jobs.   They say it can't happen again, but how do they know?

by bfaul on 09/16/2008 05:29:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Aren't those fundamentals of all economies? (none / 0)
The problem is that the Bush/McCain policy is not designed to pursue those fundamentals.  They reward the rich.  They provide tax breaks to companies that move jobs OUT of this country, rather than stay in.  They are not pursuing "green jobs", which, as the world would agree, is the direction of global innovation.  They do not support unionization or the protection of worker's rights (especially women). 

"Like lipstick on a pig"

by TJD on 09/16/2008 05:52:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The fundamentals are strong (none / 0)
We can still afford to borrow.  It doesn't get scary until somebody refuses to lend to us, or China/Japan, etc recalls the investment they've made.  Looking forward to paying 60% in taxes?  It could be a few short years down the road.

by schmoab on 09/17/2008 12:00:37 AM EST

Fundamentals of the Economy | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
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