John McCain is no war hero POW

John McCain is no war hero POW. John McCain is (alledged below) a traitor and committed treason.  According to the:
www.vietnamveteransagainstj ohnmccain.com

John McCain is no war hero POW. John McCain is (alledged below) a traitor and committed treason.  According to the:
www.vietnamveteransagainstj ohnmccain.com

Please watch all 1-5 parts, plus the other links on the above website of the interview with Colonel (ret) Earl Hopper.  Col. Hopper sounds totally honest, with no reason to lie or twist the truth IMHO.  The Vet’s evidence sound accurate to me to the point of following up on this. If reliable sources have (earlier) successfully rebutted these interviews, accusations and evidence please someone provide that evidence.

I can understand the official Obama campaign perhaps not using this out of concern perhaps for the Republican mindless, maniacal knee-jerk reactions, but that should not stop The Young Turks or anyone else publicizing this high and wide, IF THIS CAN ALL BE SUFFICIENTLY CORROBORATED. 
….
Colonel (ret) Earl Hopper states here that McCain is a traitor and committed treason, a hot-headed liar.
http://www.vietnamveteransa gainstjohnmccain.com/cin_ho pper_video.htm 


http://www.vietnamveteransa gainstjohnmccain.com/declas sified_2nhan_dan_interview_ 11_09_1967.pdf

McCain the traitor also cost the lives of many of his fellow pilots.

John McCain not only lost five U.S. aircraft, much through his own incompetence (and hot-headed temper?),
http://www.vietnamveteransa gainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mc cain_lost_five_u.htm
John McCain not only lost five U.S. aircraft, much through his own incompetence (and hot-headed temper?)

And in this linke:
http://www.freedom4um.com/c gi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=7 5455
McCain also (alledgedly) panicked and dropped two bombs, or he fired the missile which started the explosions while sitting in his plane involved in an accident on the USS Forrestal aircraft carrier, which lead to the disastrous fire leaving 132 dead sailors and many wounded. This latter has been disputed. Have reliable sources confirmed or reliably refuted this "accident"?
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For a couple of reasons.

1.  It reminds me too much of the Swift Boat attacks.  Even if these allegations are true, which the Swift Boat allegations were not - this will SOUND like McCain is getting Swift Boated.

2.  McCain has stripped himself of his own honor by lying during the campaign.  At least for now, the Press is buying into the framing that McCain and his campaign are sleazy liars.  Once McCain's honesty and honor have been put into question, how much more gain do we get from attacking his war record?  At some point, in the eyes of the public, you lose your own moral high ground by kicking a man while he is down.

by rbruck on 09/19/2008 02:24:19 PM EST

Hey rbruck:

I believe that both you and lulliloo have worthy points.  I can see that if, as a front to help defeat the McCain 'machine' were to pull up and throw out there his POW story over and over again, we wouldn't have much of an argument to catapult us into a winning situation.

(In this case too, I don't think you can "kick" McCain enough for all the damage he has done and is continuing to do until things change)

But, I feel lulliloo is looking at the McCain group from the perspective of the American Veterans.  From the outset of his campaign he has shamed the vets by his stacks of lies.  I think the vets want to get across that which is bothering them the most; and back it up with some data -- not just name call; the way it would look if they didn't attempt to have references.  Just sayin'. 

by Lennilenape on 09/19/2008 03:51:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Make this the focus of the election...

Please Mainstream Media - go after the Old Man's Honor..

Please please please shift focus away from the economy and the Republican party's demise and focus on some war crap that happened 35 years ago...

I hope you are very successful at your endeavor, Lulliloo...

Not

:)

by bobo1 on 09/19/2008 02:29:55 PM EST

 bobo just a simple reminder ..   McCain is the one focusing on  war crap 35 yrs ago

over  and over  and over  and over  and over..

Like being one of how many prisoners of war  qualifies him for shit. he is insane he shouldnt even be allowed to run for medical reasons.

Btw bobo the closet case.  I thought you where going to vote for Obama. LOL!   I cant believe people actually believed that.

:) you


by Chinese Democracy on 09/19/2008 03:12:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
vote for Obama... I was simply pointing out that this is what McCain would love for us to do - to focus on his Honor...

Did you not see the NOT at the end of my comment?

You of all people should not talk about "Closet Cases"

:)

by bobo1 on 09/19/2008 03:19:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You read the post. Its quite clear.. I said you are not going to vote for Obama

Im not in the closet. ..  I dont need to hide from anyone.. thats so last week..

conservatives on the other hand  hate who they are and try to prey the gay away.  Hide in restrooms tap toes and fondle kids while they sleep because they cant come out in the open.

See how that works bobo the booboo?

:) you


by Chinese Democracy on 09/19/2008 03:30:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Attacking McCain's POW experience at this point in the campaign is so stupid I am wondering if this isn't a conservative group pretending to be a Democratic 527.

This makes no sense.

by ProfRich on 09/19/2008 03:37:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]

This group is an offshoot of the loose confederation of a family members of Viet-era MIAs and those who expolit them. They believe that Vietnam held American POWs past the war's end in 1973, and continues to hold them, and that McCain has been part of a government cover-up.

I give them no credibility, and its doubtful that they will get any traction with the media, who know these people and generally dismiss their claims.

If you want to know more, go here. It's part of a website that debunks the mythology surrounding Vietnam MIAs. The guy who runs it, Col. Joe Schlatter, is no McCain fan but hates liars and con artists. Here's what he says about Hopper:

Earl Hopper, Colonel, US Army Reserve (retired)

+Hopper claims to be a "retired Army intelligence officer."  Horseshit.  Hopper once served as the Intelligence and Security officer for an Army post where his main job was maintaining the library of classified documents.
 
+Hopper is not smart enough to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions printed on the sole.

+Hopper has made a career out of spreading lies about the loss of his son, Earl Hopper, Jr., when his F-4 was shot down over North Vietnam. 

by ashbul on 09/19/2008 07:11:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks very much, ashbul, for providing the counter evidence that I repeatedly requested which, if true, would negate McCain's POW history from being used.

The fact remains that McCain is openly proven to be a liar every day.  This did not start with the apparent ofset or increasing mental debilities but has been going on for many years; it is a fundamental part of his psychological makup.  Many tens of thousands (millions if extrapolating from the RNC) politicians,  ;corporate and private individuals will not hesitate to advance their own political, religious bigotry and fill their own pockets at the expense of others. This gree d is the underlying cause of much to most of the current national and worldwide economic and other crises.

by Lulliloo on 09/20/2008 03:48:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]
the war hero crap.. to a fault.  I dont think anyone should get in a panic over it .


by Chinese Democracy on 09/19/2008 07:48:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Chris and you are right, I don't know about bobo.  He's going to vote Obama?  When did that come down the pipe?  I work a lot of hours that's why my submissions are so far apart.

by Lennilenape on 09/19/2008 07:55:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Last I heard anything about it, Bobo wasn't planning to vote for anybody.  He made a big deal about his right to abstain from the democratic process, and was crestfallen when none of us applauded his epic ennui.

Maybe he's woken up to the fact that limiting his political participation to spectatorial naysaying on internet forums makes him look like a clown.  (I guess his username of choice has had a significant hand in that, as well.)

by OneHitKill on 09/20/2008 07:27:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes, McCain should be exposed for what he (alledgedly and probably) was, an incompetent pilot and traitor who is directly responsible for the deaths of his fellow pilots. 
McCain is unequivocably a unscrupulous liar with psychological problems throughout his political career until the present as shown and proven almost everytime he opens his mouth during this campaign. 

McCain is a senator, the Republican presidential candidate and a pending national disaster and disgrace precisely because he billed himself as a war hero.  Without that war hero Big Lie he would be a totally unknown. 

Everyone is responsible and should be held accountable for his or her actions. If the allegations are true then yes, strip the man of all honor, don't just vote against him.  The man is a moral maggot who has done grievous harm to the U.S., as have done Bush, Rumsfield & co. 

His lifelong lack of honesty, scrupples and integrity, his blithering incompetence form the core of why he should be exposed and defeated.  Yes, kick the maggot when he is down.  McCain has well and truly deserved it.

by Lulliloo on 09/19/2008 03:51:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
captor drawing the cross in the sand to show he was a christian too crap right from . Solzenitzen? book. Not positive it was Sozenitzen.  


by Chinese Democracy on 09/19/2008 07:52:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My two cents on McCain's war record is
1. He showed bravery in surviving 5 years of captivity
2. This obviously does not give him any practical experience to be president. It does show certain human characteristics, which are not particularly important, that a president should possess
3. If he did discuss military intelligence with the Viet Cong, it was understandable, in the position he was in

by The Iroquois on 09/19/2008 03:45:15 PM EST

I am fully aware that there will be a big mostly republican kneejerk backlash if McCain's POW myth is exposed for what it is, and that the Obama campaign shouldn't and won't be the ones to do it. But other journalists should. That is what investigative journalism is about. If it means waiting until after the election then so be it.

But the fact remains that McCain was a, or the most influential politician in the coverup of the POW/MIAs being knowingly left behind. Nixon, Cheney, even Bush Sr. are complicit in this massive and dispicable coverup. They as well as McCain should be "outed", pilloried and put on trial for under any applicable laws.   McCain is indeed a traitor to his fellow POWs/MIAs and his country.  His entire political career is based upon a Big Lie. 

If Ashbul, you or anyone else gives these Vietnam vets and MIA families no credence, then I'd suggest you read the 18sep8 article by Sydney H. Schanberg in The Nation Institute, as highlighted in the Huffington Post

A bit of background on Schanberg quoted here:
"Sydney H. Schanberg, a journalist for nearly 50 years, has written extensively on foreign affairs--particularly Asia--and on domestic issues such as ethics, racial problems, government secrecy, corporate excesses and the weaknesses of the national media.

Most of his journalism career has been spent on newspapers but his award-winning work has also appeared widely in other publications and media. The 1984 movie, The Killing Fields, which won several Academy Awards, was based on his book
The Death and Life of Dith Pran - a memoir of his experiences covering the war in Cambodia for the New York Times and of his relationship with his Cambodian colleague, Dith Pran.

For his accounts of the fall of Cambodia to the Khmer Rouge in 1975, Schanberg was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for international reporting "at great risk." He is also the recipient of many other awards - including two George Polk awards, two Overseas Press Club awards and the Sigma Delta Chi prize for distinguished journalism.
"

http://www.nationinstitute. org/p/schanberg09182008pt1
http://www.huffingtonpost.c om/kathleen-reardon/an-arti cle-you-must-read_b_127937. html

This is how the war hero POW McCain treats the POW/MIA families.  I think McCain went so far as part of this cover up to suppress his own traitorous actions.  I've never seen anything refuting that he made broadcasts for the enemy. 

I was in the USAF Security Service as a Albanian and German linguist "airborne intercept operator" flying out of Rhein-Main (FRA) airbase in Germany from 1971-73, with 64 reconnaisance missions around and over the East Block. 

I went threw POW capture training, part of which is being stuffed into a box that was physically almost too small for me to fit.  Overnight the "guards" were screaming at me & pounding on the box with clubs.   And that was just for a few days and I knew it would all be over. So  I understand POWs can and do break.  But most other POWs did not break, and they are not using their POW experience for their own greater power, glory and money.  McCain broke in a major way a la Tokyo Rose and caused the death of many of his former pilot comrads, and continued after the war in causing the miserable torture, imprisonment, starvation and deaths of hundreds of his fellow POWs.

It makes me laugh to be suspected of being a right wing kook or part of some republican infiltration plot by people who do not have the slightest clue what they are talking about.  For the past two months I have spent studying Obama's speeches, policies and background; day and night reading hundreds of the election blogs, many thousands of blog comments; studied all of the major RNC and DNC speeches and all the credible news reports and commentaries. 

I have never found any politician to compare with Obama in his combination of sincerity, ethics, intelligence, coolness under pressure and personal attacks, breadth of knowledge and above all judgement.  Joe Biden is an excellent choice for many of the same reasons if they can get past the shallowness of the republican campaign based on mindless bullshit.

Conversely, I despise McCain and his Republican centerfold substitute for Betty Boop.  Part of the "clean up Washington" after Obama is elected it to lay bare the moral maggots that have run Washington, republican or democrat.

I've lived the past 37 years living in Europe and traveling and working on hundreds of trips throughout the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. I worked for an American company first 14 years in Germany, 14 in the UK and the rest till now in the Netherlands.  I can look through the eyes of foreigners who understandably see Americans as shallow, stupid and with crazy leaders.  I can't help but agree with them as I watched the last eight years of Republican rule or when I see the Republican campaign.  But I see quite the opposite in Obama and the democrat base journalism and blogs.

I think America is well and truly flushed down the historical toilet unless Obama/Biden are elected.

by Lulliloo on 09/22/2008 04:56:47 AM EST

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