09/22/2008 12:52:05 AM EST

A true history of "Trickle Down Reaganomics"

posted by MedfordTim

Anyone who has read my posts for any length of time knows how I feel about Reagan (may he forever be a homeless soul). His legacy is coming to fruition on an almost daily basis as the foundations of our economy crumble. For those who weren't even born during the Reagan debacle, former Nixon White House strategist and political and economic critic Kevin Phillips appeared on Bill Moyers' Journal last night and did a very thorough job of explaining how we got where we are.

I heartily recommend it. This is the most honest assessment I have heard to date.

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If I were a conservative, my reaction at this point would be to blame Liberals for allowing me to screw things up and call for a bonfire of copies of the movie Wall Street to show my patriotism...
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A true history of "Trickle Down Reaganomics" | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
No Good News (none / 0)
Mr. Phillips, prescient and knowledgeable as always, says we might be halfway to the bottom.

He calls Phil Graham, our next Treasury Secretary if McCain wins, "appalling", citing that Graham and his wife were known as "Mr. and Mrs. Enron" because they were so "flagrant" (I wonder if he meant "flagrantly corrupt").

To hear the kind scary of language that Kevin Phillips is using from such an authoritative economist does not give much hope for our future.

The world is a strange place, but that makes it really fun to watch. -- bfaul

by EveningStarNM on 09/20/2008 01:26:30 PM EST

Excellent (and Depressing) (none / 1)
That was a very fair, sobering assessment of how we got into this mess.

My only criticism (and it's a big one) is that I think Phillips goes *too far* with the 50/50, i.e. Repubs and Dems are equally to blame.

Before someone jumps in to say that I'm biased, hear me out. I am NOT saying it's a 100/0 proposition, or even a 90/10.  But 50/50 is bullshit.

Why? Well, let's think about this for a second. Where did these economic policies (slashing taxes on the rich and corporations coupled with massive deregulation) come from? Yeah that's right, from conservatives/libertarians.

Not from the left, but clearly from the right.  Can we finally all agree that Milton Friedman is now dead both literally *and* figuratively?

At any rate, it was the policies and philosophies of the Reagan Administration and Grover Norquists of the world that gave birth to this mess we're in. Sure, Bill Clinton and his fellow DLC dems made sure it made it through middle school and high school, and Bush Sr. and the Republican Congress helped it graduate with a PhD in economic disaster.

But never lose sight of the fact that even though Clinton was a Democrat in name, he was promoting (and signing into law) CONSERVATIVE Economic Policies. This is where someone argues that it's not *true* conservative policies but that's an excuse hiding behind semantics.

If you ignore that fact you'll fall into the easy 50/50 trap when assigning blame. 50/50 my ass! Progressives understand that the DLC Dems are just about as bad as the Republicans!

PS---There were less than 50 (fifty) registered lobbyists when Reagan took office. Today there are well over 34,000. In other words, the Reagan Administration and philosophies gave rise to the explosive corruption and lobbyist influence we see today. I know, I know, corruption has always been around in some form, but there are degrees. And Reagan & Co made it legal and institutional.

Not to mention the fact that Reagan & Co fundamentally undermined the very offices they held by openly bashing it. The bottom line is that You Can't Govern If You Don't Believe In Government.

by ihavenobias on 09/20/2008 01:44:29 PM EST

Obama is listening to... (none / 0)
...Clinton's chief economic advisor.  Watch for the name "Rubin" to play a prominent role in Obama's policies.  Rubin also helped to get us into this mess.

The world is a strange place, but that makes it really fun to watch. -- bfaul

by EveningStarNM on 09/20/2008 02:04:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hey (none / 0)
I'm the one that posted that article by Huffington that ripped on Obama's advisers, remember?

He needs some better blood, ASAP. Still, I trust Obama more than I do Clinton.

For one thing, I think it'll be much harder for the Repubs/DLC Dems to push for less regulation in light of what's happened.

by ihavenobias on 09/20/2008 02:10:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I watched it (none / 0)
and spent the night hiding under the bed.  Wow, what a sobering piece that was.

by desertpear on 09/20/2008 02:12:12 PM EST

my official TYT Producer reaction (none / 0)
I was unable to watch the interview because internet video is annoying to me (how ironic) with all the buffering, but I read the transcript.  Reading a transcript of an interview is also annoying, because people don't speak in the same way they write, so the comments can come across as disjointed in a transcript.  (Why am I wasting time with all these disclaimers?)

Tim got me interested with his title because I too blame Reagan more than anybody else for most of the problems of today's world.  But Kevin Phillips didn't really focus on Reagan much in the interview.  He painted it more as a Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush Jr continuum, with heightened opprobrium for Bush Jr and scathing criticism of the entire political class in power during this Administration and today.  

The more eye-opening and distressing part of the interview was when Phillips spoke about how bad the situation still is and may become.

In this interview in which Bill Moyers clearly had sympathy for what Phillips was saying, I wish Moyers had pushed back a little instead of so willingly accommodating Phillips. I didn't like the chumminess, and I think that by being Phillips' lap dog for the interview Moyers failed to bring out more explanation and sharper criticism from Phillips, thus hampering even Moyer's own agenda.

I envied Phillips when he said he was 85 years old so he didn't care much. On the other hand, I despair sometimes where I am too in age. It's too caught in the middle.

Man, I am rambling and being a needless dick. Thanks for posting this Medford.

David

by yturks on 09/20/2008 03:27:58 PM EST

Why blame Reagan? (none / 0)
The new talking point is that WE are to blame because "we bought McMansions we couldn't afford".

I could be wrong, but I've now heard that phrase 3 times in the last 2 days, so I suspect it's one of the new talking points to deflect the blame away from where it's relevant.

Blaming individual consumers is a great way to minimize the fact that bad loans should never have been given out to begin with. The fool on MSNBC just said that consumers share HALF of the responsibility.

Bullshit.

by ihavenobias on 09/20/2008 04:48:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
whine whine whine (none / 1)

the quintessential american mentality: "i am so fat, so corpulently disgustingly obese, not because i lack any self control, but because mcdonald's keep feeding me all these tasty meals for such a low cost that i am absolved of all blame".

of course, mcdonald's should not have been providing cheap happy meals in the first place, and banks should not have been providing cheap bank loans either.

spoken like a true american. 

by neo on 09/20/2008 06:41:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I knew it (none / 0)
As soon as I wrote what I wrote I thought "that capitalizat ion challenged guy will stop reading Ayn Rand for a minute to come to piss in the punch". You didn't disappoint! :)

And that's a terrible analogy by the way.

by ihavenobias on 09/20/2008 06:45:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I find (none / 0)
that if you read all of his posts using a stereotypical snooty French beat poet accent, it makes the comments a little more tolerable.  Just a little...  Though the points are obviously still retarded.

by Spencer on 09/20/2008 06:53:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Awesome (none / 0)
.

by ihavenobias on 09/20/2008 07:37:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
it is a valid analogy (none / 0)

i take breaks from reading ayn rand to piss in the punch (or crap in the canape) because i can afford to.

you, on the other hand, need to focus on paying off your credit card and not spend time being a whiny bitch on tyt. 

 

after all, how dare that credit card company offer you a credit card in the first place, and offer a low-low teaser rate in the second, and encourage you to transfer all balances and charge away on that card, in the third place, when they should have known that you would only abuse those privileges and not pay your minimum balances on time, and then bitch and moan and whine on tyt when your interest rates are jacked up.

yeah, it is definitely the fault of the credit card companies. how dare they give a credit card to a worthless whiny bitch like you?

don't like that analogy either? in the reality based community, it does not matter what you like or dislike. you can whine all you want; your credit card interest rates are still going to be quite large---and rightly so.

by neo on 09/21/2008 02:22:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
HEY IT WORKS! (none / 0)
Thanks, Spence!

by richardshort2001 on 09/21/2008 02:25:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You should try it with an Irish accent... (none / 0)
...with a little musical ditty twinkling in the background.  It makes neo almost entertaining!

The world is a strange place, but that makes it really fun to watch. -- bfaul

by EveningStarNM on 09/21/2008 07:37:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Great idea! (none / 0)
:)

by ihavenobias on 09/21/2008 08:53:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Right, right (none / 0)
The sure sign of someone losing an argument? Unwarranted personal attacks (hint, hint).

Mortgage brokers are often just looking to make a quick buck (as someone else said, they are worse than used car salesman), and they often take advantage of their experience and huge knowledge base to sell teaser rate mortgages to people who often can't afford them.

The average person doesn't have an accounting/mathemat ics degree and is not a pro at reading through tens of pages of jargon laden contract written with the specific purpose of being as confusing as possible.

To pretend otherwise would be incredibly naive.

by ihavenobias on 09/21/2008 08:58:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
There's a lot of truth to this. (none / 0)
When I moved back to Houston in 1995, I bought modest house for $225K. This was after the oil crash of the 1980s, so that kind of money bought a lot of house.

One of my Dad's friends gave me a hard time about buying such a puny house in such a crappy neighborhood. He said it would never appreciate.

I responded that I didn't buy it as an investment, I bought it to live in it. Furthermore, I paid cash, so I wouldn't have a mortgage. This allowed me to invest more money into the stock market, rather than in real estate.

This guy was paying $17,000/year just for neighborhood association fees and property taxes. By contrast, I was living in the only community in Texas without property taxes.

The moral to the story is that the tortoise always beats the hare. This guy eventually got fucked royally. He paid all of those high monthly notes, fees and taxes, and he doesn't have a thing to show for it today.

Always live below your means and save your money.

by KenTX on 09/22/2008 02:22:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Trikle Down On Your head (none / 0)

"Conservative Republicans always want the government to stay out of business and avoid regulation as long as they are making lots of money. When their greed, however, gets them into a fix, they are the first to cry out for rules and laws and taxpayer money to bail out their businesses. Obviously, Republicans are socialists.

The Bush administration has decided to socialize the debt of the big Wall Street Firms. Taxpayers didn't get to enjoy any of the big money profits on the phony financial instruments like derivatives or bundled sub-prime paper, but we get the privilege of paying for their debt and failures."

"Freedom is important to Republicans as long as someone else pays for it on the battlefield and on April 15th."

by MRFred on 09/20/2008 07:03:50 PM EST

Exactly (none / 0)
We are now a "socialist state"

Terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy

by Chinese Democracy on 09/20/2008 08:53:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Great interview (none / 0)
I've read "American Theocracy" and thought he was right on the money.  

by bfaul on 09/21/2008 12:38:33 PM EST

please refrain for such terms regarding McCain (none / 0)

There are a few terms that should be avoided when talking about McCains policies, McCain is quite old so PLEASE stop using the term 'Trickle Down', can't we find a more appropriate term that does not remind me of toddlers and old men?

by Maverick on 09/22/2008 06:14:51 AM EST

A true history of "Trickle Down Reaganomics" | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
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