Why the White House is 100% Right to Challenge Fox News

There are three categories of news media:

1.    Opinion Outlets

    Keith Olbermann
    Bill O'Reilly
    The Young Turks
    Wall Street Journal Editorial Side

2.    Partisan Press (Ideologically Driven Press)

    The Nation
    Fox News Channel
    National Review
    Mother Jones
    Drudge Report

3.    Straight News

    CNN
    ABC News
    MSNBC News Programs
    New York Times
    Wall Street Journal (Non-Editorial)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being in any of these categories. As you can see, I put our show in the "Opinion Outlet" category. I have no problem with that. We tell you our take on the news of the day. All of the categories are based on the news; but they do range based on how much original news reporting or editorializing they do. And that is an important distinction.

The Obama White House has taken on Fox News channel in an effort to point out they are not a legitimate news network. This is very important because out of all the outlets mentioned above, they are the only ones being dishonest about what category they are in. This is where the confusion lies.

Fox News admits that their talk shows are opinion based, which is obvious and indisputable. It's not straight news and it's not meant to be. No problem. The problem lies in their "news" side. They don't have a straight news division like CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc. They have propaganda disguised as news. That's a serious issue that must be addressed.

If they simply admitted as some of the partisan journals do - on both the left and the right - that they cover the news but from a certain ideological perspective, then again there would be no problem. The Nation isn't purely an opinion magazine; it does real reporting. But they have a clear ideological perspective, in their case a liberal one. The National Review is the same on the right - news stories and opinion from a conservative point of view. Again, as long as there is truth in advertising there's no problem at all.

The problem with Fox News is that they have shown over and over again that they tilt their news coverage indisputably toward a right-wing perspective and refuse to admit it. They are not purely driven by the news. They are driven by an agenda.

The Daily Show did a great segment just last week showing how Fox News acted as cheerleaders for the 9/12 Tea Party protests and gave it wall to wall coverage, yet for a protest of almost the same exact size - the Gay Rights protest last weekend - they didn't send a single camera crew. And The Daily Show didn't even mention a Fox News producer who was caught on camera riling up the crowds in the 9/12 protest and literally encouraging them to cheer louder. I don't think they sent a similar "news producer" to the gay rights march. To argue that they covered these protests straight without any leaning toward one side or another is comically disingenuous.

But this is only one of dozens of readily available examples. Think Progress has another fantastic example of exactly what the administration is complaining about - Fox News anchors parroting Republican talking points. First you see Republican representatives pushing the talking point of "Where are the jobs?" then you see Fox anchors asking the same exact question as if they are independently asking questions about the news rather than repeating propaganda (it's a perfect example of Fox's agenda - watch the Republicans first and then Fox News here).

As if all of this weren't enough, we have absolute proof from the inside that Fox purposely manipulates the news to suit a Republican agenda. There is a leaked memo from their Vice President of News, Dan Moody, where he directs his so-called reporters to find Iraqi insurgents celebrating Democratic victories in 2006 (you can read it here). Are we really having a serious conversation about whether Fox has an ideological perspective?

Unfortunately, the rest of the media seems to be unbelievably dense in recognizing this point, so they treat Fox coverage as if it's real, straight news. So, when Fox wants to drive an issue like Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright or ACORN or just about every other conservative attack against Obama, the rest of the press goes along with it as if these are all straight news stories.

Now, it's important to point out that ideologically driven press can break real stories. They should not be dismissed out of hand as not news simply because they came from those sources. As an example, Mother Jones has broken many important stories that are no less valid because they came form a source that has a clear liberal perspective. So, Fox News can - and does - break stories that are valid and should receive some press coverage from everyone. That's why partisan press provides an important voice in the national conversation.

The problem is when partisan press gets confused for straight, unbiased news. The perfect example of this is when Fox News called the 2000 election for George W. Bush first - and every other news network followed like sheep. The person in charge of calling the 2000 election at Fox News was the cousin of George W. Bush. That is not some hyperbole. It was literally Bush's cousin.

Would the other networks have panicked and called the election for Gore because Air America said he won? Would they have followed the lead of The Young Turks in calling the election for Gore if we had hired Gore's uncle to tabulate the votes for us? It's ridiculous and unthinkable, right (especially so, since Air America and The Young Turks weren't around yet at the time of that election; but you get my point -- there's no way they would consider that legitimate, but yet they considered Fox's call perfectly legitimate)?  

So, why did they commit this unpardonable error in the 2000 election when Fox News was involved? Because Fox has purposely sold itself as straight news when they know that they are nothing of the sort - specifically to be able to influence the rest of the press in this way. And the rest of the media bought it.

This dangerous charade has to end, and that is why I think it was a fantastic idea by the White House to call out Fox on this phenomenon. They're not saying they won't go on Fox News or that Fox's point of view is illegitimate or unacceptable. They're simply asking people to recognize their point of view. That's a perfectly valid request.

In fact, if they don't do this they are going to continue to get swift-boated on every issue because the press will follow the lead of Fox News on every partisan attack they bring up. They must respond or they'll wind up in the same position as John Kerry when Fox News kept asking if he really served honorably in Vietnam (the problem again was that they were pretending to ask the questions as if they were journalists looking into the issue, but in reality they just wanted that story to last longer in the press so that more people would question Kerry's service - Fox plays this "question" game all the time).

Even if you don't agree with the White House's tactic of taking on Fox, you have to agree that they have been smart in at least bringing up the question of Fox News's credibility. This was not a conversation that the rest of the press was having before. Now, at least a question arises as to whether the media should really trust a story coming out of Fox News or whether they are pushing a Republican agenda with their so-called news item. That's a debate the White House can't lose; because as Fox News has taught us, it's not the answer that matters, it's the question.

I would take it one step further than the White House though. Yes, administration officials should go on Fox News on a regular basis. You still want to talk to that audience. Even if you think you're not going to convince them, you're still an administration that represents all of the American people and you must talk to your conservative constituents as well. But the president himself should make a stand.

President Obama should go on Fox News again only when they admit that they are partisan press. If they are not trying to trick anyone by pretending to be neutral journalists, then of course the president should talk to them. But if they continue on their policy of purposeful deception in how they represent themselves, then the White House shouldn't reward that behavior.

Obama's negative numbers have been driven up by constant attacks from Fox News Channel (the one entity that the Republican base says represents them the most). They can be proud of that accomplishment. They're having a large impact. But to pretend that they are not behind the organized way those attacks are driven into the mainstream press is not just dishonest; it's an insult to our intelligence.

Obama is accused by some (including Fox, of course) of being too wimpy to come on Fox and challenge them. Well, isn't Fox News too wimpy to admit what the really are? Why don't they have the courage of their convictions and admit that they are conservative? If they rise up to the challenge of confessing their real identity and real purpose, then - and only then - should Obama rise up to the challenge of taking on that conservative voice in the media in an interview on their air. That sounds fair and balanced to me.

Watch The Young Turks Here

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The NYT, CNN, ABC and MSNBC news all need to be put in the Partisan News section - They are very liberally biased and have been shown to be so on many occasions right here on TYT - They might not as obvious as Fox is, but they can not possibly be called straight news...

There is no non partisan straight news - thats the problem with the media today. Money talks, and depending on whose money you're taking, thats whose opinion you will be reflecting.

Thanks...

by bobo1 on 10/19/2009 01:26:36 PM EST

Seriously, have you forgotten the Iraq war?

by omardini on 10/19/2009 01:48:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
But I would call that "Patriotic BS" bias, because deep down most people in the media are more liberal than conservative. They weren't supportying Conservative principles as much as they were supporting higher ratings and their own pocketbooks. I thought that even the coverage, especially during the latter half of Bush's term was extremely liberally biased AGAINST our troops and the mission. To say that any of the news media today except Fox is conservative is just dishonest...

by bobo1 on 10/19/2009 03:27:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
has ever been against OUR TROOPS

Why cant conservatives ever be honest?

Its like  their agenda  wouldnt fly with anyone unless they lie all the time.


by Chinese Democracy on 10/20/2009 08:58:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Exactly, CNN and MSNBC can hardly be called what they are delivering as straight news.  

by CamilleMarie on 10/19/2009 03:31:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Anyone who has ever had the displeasure of watching Rick Sanchez, Tony Harris or Don Lemon on CNN knows there is a HUGE bias there - Also, Contessa Brewer, Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC are Liberal loons...

To call these people news anchors is an affront to the profession...

Thanks again

by bobo1 on 10/19/2009 03:43:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What all newsmodels on all the networks have in common is that they are millionaires. As such they are looking out for their own best interests. Like any capitalist worth their salt, they do the least amount of actual work for the most gain (also the gop mantra). The corporations that own the media and pay their salaries would not be well-served by a truly liberal agenda. To think otherwise is not to be thinking at all.

~majority.fm

by mauirising on 10/19/2009 06:59:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
  no way do they have a liberal bias

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 10/19/2009 08:02:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wherever the money is, there's the bias. TV "news" is only the filler between commercials.

If liberals ever started favoring the super rich and corporations, then you can start accusing the media of "liberal bias".

by LudwigVan on 10/21/2009 04:30:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I think NPR/PBS need to find their way into the straight news category, at least certain shows.

by Tom Hanc on 10/19/2009 03:27:58 PM EST

The White House is definately "right" in calling Fox News partisan (1000% more partisan than whatever you can say about CNN, MSNBC, the NYT). But I doubt that it will have any impact on the way the media are set up.

As you said in the show, even most conservatives know that Fox News represents the point of view of the Republican party. White House officials only come across as whining when they keep pointing that out. As the other media outlets just don't care about all this, Fox News has nothing to lose in this fight. That is because Fox News isn't really the problem - it's the absence of real, objective, credible journalism in the entire media.

What the White House should do instead, is to point out every single lie and misrepresentation that are uttered on each MSM outlet, naming whichever person did it, and hand out evidence that it was wrong. Before every press briefing, they should devote 30 minutes to this. Don't say that they are wrong (boring, vague), but show what they did wrong (interesting, precise).

 

by OldGerman on 10/19/2009 04:18:37 PM EST

1)-I like your debunking idea. The only downside is that it would put the admin at war against the entire media. Granted, in many ways they already are.

2)-You'd be surprised how many Republicans/Conservatives think that Fox News is 'down the middle'. They only concede that the opinion hosts are right of center, but even then not always, especially with O'Reilly.

 

by Tom Hanc on 10/19/2009 04:26:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That is close to whatever you call the middle - CNN, MSNBC and ABC (Does CBS have a news division anymore?) are so far in the left's pocket that Fox sometimes is the only relief many Americans can turn to for Non-Pravda type news - THATS why Fox news is so popular...

by bobo1 on 10/19/2009 04:40:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I was trying to stay out of this thread but..

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Fox is centrist, ROFL

by RedPossum on 10/19/2009 05:32:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"popular" with the neo-brownshirts.

~majority.fm

by mauirising on 10/19/2009 06:39:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The "Reich" were a bunch of Socialist Left Wingers... Fox is Conservative, yes, but they are closer to the mainstream (and shaping the mainstream) due to their large volume of viewers, as opposed to NBC and CNN who can't even draw Kool Aid drinkers to watch anymore...

by bobo1 on 10/19/2009 07:05:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Faux News has this high rating because this is where right-wingers watch get their so called news/opinions. If one polls over 1000 Republicans  & ask them who they voted for in the 2008 Election & where they get their News from over 80% will say John McCain & Faux News .. It will be the same result if one polls 1000 Faux News viewers & ask who they voted for in the 2008 Election ... over 80% will say McCain.

Do the same with 1000 Democratic Voters & ask them where they get their News I can bet you, you will get varying answers ... CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CNN, Faux News, Internet etc ..... hence their lower rating than Faux News ..

To Right-Wingers .. CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CNN ... are Bias .. only Faux News are objective & tell the truth .. wonder why??

A Proud Progressive!!!

by teron678 on 10/19/2009 07:42:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"What's most distinctive about the American press is not its freedom but its century-old tradition of independence--that it serves the public interest rather than those of parties, persuasions, or pressure groups. Media independence is a 20th-century innovation that has never fully taken root in many other countries that do have a free press. The Australian-British-continen tal model of politicized media that Murdoch has applied at Fox is un-American, so much so that he has little choice but go on denying what he's doing as he does it. For Murdoch, Ailes, and company, "fair and balanced" is a necessary lie. To admit that their coverage is slanted by design would violate the American understanding of the media's role in democracy and our idea of what constitutes fair play. But it's a demonstrable deceit that no longer deserves equal time."

excerpt from article  by Jacob Weisberg

To call the nazi party left wing is  stupid beyond belief.  

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 10/19/2009 08:17:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Fox is Conservative, yes, but they are closer to the mainstream (and shaping the mainstream) due to their large volume of viewers"

FOX News is the documented home of the 21% conservative "dead enders" who literally think we discovered WMD in Iraq and that the economy suffered under Clinton.

Only FOX caters specifically to these wingnuts. Normal people spread their viewership over many different news outlets.

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 10/19/2009 09:53:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"The "Reich" were a bunch of Socialist Left Wingers."

Aren't you supposed to be a teacher?   How can you teach people and be this ignorant?  Didn't they require any 20th century history where you went to college? 

Read some Goddamn books!

by bfaul on 10/19/2009 10:31:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The results of all that shaping where evident in the last elections right?


by Chinese Democracy on 10/20/2009 08:56:34 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You make it very difficult to be civil since you are such an obvious nimrod. Have you never read a history book written before 2000? Some of the first people to be rounded-up were the trade-unionists and socialists. The Soviet Socialist Republic were mortal enemies to the NAZI's. Oh, I know, you think because 'NAZI' translated to 'National Socialists' that somehow meant universal health-care and social security for the elderly...Really, what rock would a toad have to hide under to believe that?? I would continue to educate you but my dogs need to be walked. At least they know not to eat their own $hit.


~majority.fm

by mauirising on 10/20/2009 02:24:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
In all honesty it is very difficult to pigeon hole Naziism in the parameters of modern terminology - If you really examine it, Hitler could be B0TH left and right - To call him just one sided is not academically accurate on my part. Fascism has many forms, and not all of them stem from right wing ideologies. Hitler believed in government control of many major aspects of life including health care, education and other social programs - In Nazi Germany, everyone was covered in these areas at total taxpayer expense - it was the Nazi's way of keeping control over many aspects of the peoples lives - In our terms, it doesn't get more leftist than that... Yes, the Russians were the Germans enemy, but it was a matter of competition for resources and power allocation, not so much as "ooh they're Communists", as Germany had many programs very similar to pre war Russia... Liberalism is about control, more specifically GOVERNMENT control - no other regime in history embodies the ills of government control than Naziism...

by bobo1 on 10/20/2009 02:52:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]

You are NOT a history teacher, you don't know shit. And WW2 should be the second most important fact after American history for American history teachers. Either your education sucks or you have been thoroughly brainwashed but you got so many things SO wrong I will not even bother...Just READ a BOOK, damn it!

by eborujion on 10/21/2009 02:36:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
but in this post bobo1 is actually right.

Health care was covered, many industries became state controled and Hitler had a pact with Stalin. (I have no idea why you call the "Hitler-Stalin-Pakt" "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" but that doesn't change its existence)

There were indeed many things about the Third Reich that would nowadays be considered "left".

The problem is that many people on this forum equate "left" with good.

Many people with much more knowledge than each of us have written several books in which they tried to put Nazis in one category and had to admit that they were not able to do so.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 10/21/2009 07:43:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Even if there were many things in Nazi Germany that would be considered "leftist" from an American perspective nowadays that does not mean they are to the left of the spectrum. I agree though that it is a great irony of history that the U.S. after beating the Nazis and surviving the Soviets now moves towards right-wing fascism and totalitarianism (a little slower under Obama, maybe).

My main point of criticism - and that made all remotely factual statements by bobo absolutely ridiculous - is that he claimed that liberalism is about government control when in fact the opposite is true. Being socialist or leftist you can argue that that might involve a great deal of government regulations but today's liberalism as displayed best by Cenk is total weak sauce that is barely brave enough to demand careful regulations for the most fraudulent and malicious excesses of capitalism.

Far from equating left with good (rather calling bullshit on this whole left vs. right false dichotomy) the simplest and most consistent definition of that spectrum throughout history is that the right wants to rule over the people, the left wants the people to rule over themselves (details may vary). As such the Nazi ideology was from the beginning a top-to-bottom astroturf effort organized around the Führer over his crazy brand of racism much like the the regressive movement in the U.S. today gathers around various figures over made-up bat shit. The communist ideology OTOH at least pretended to be a grass-roots people movement (and definitely was in the beginning) even when they had outperformed the Nazi-totalitarianism. I'd rather argue that the so called communists (Stalinists, Maoists etc.) were de facto fascists than the other way round.

Also, calling healthcare, education and social programs liberal or conservative may make sense in the political climate of the U.S. today but it is ridiculous and would have been called ridiculous by many past American politicians - Republicans and Democrats - only the extent of which and the means of paying for were disputed for a long time (since the lack of such measures became problems). In reality those programs are necessities for the long-term stability of a nation. Neither left nor right. Of course it is opportune to just call wherever you are standing the middle and any actions according to your political alignment either right or left. But that is of course, bull sh. If you read bobo over a period of time he does exactly that (he had stated that he is actually for single payer health care, but because of his right-wing loonie tendencies that is a right-wing position to him while the public option that he doesn't support is a scary socialistic phantom! See how that works?).

by eborujion on 10/21/2009 10:01:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]

my main point is that what bobo calls government control I call the most efficient way to stream-line and run processes that are beneficial to as many people as possible. It is simply a matter of population cybernetics. There is no inherent intent in such a system. The difference is the people using or abusing it. And the old ways of doing things in the U.S. are not working any longer, the U.S. is not just a village with 300 million people like it was with a few million inhabitants and much more loot and victims 200 years ago.

by eborujion on 10/21/2009 10:18:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree with you that this whole right vs left terminology is more misused than anything. We could spend hours to discuss wether the Nazis were right (ok obviously they were wrong;)) or left, astroturf or grassroots and we will probably never come to a conclusion, because reality just isn't black and white.

Rather than repeating my views on how this political terminology should be used, (if you have to which usually you don't) I'd ask you to read my thread titeled "What's in a Word?". In this thread I give my two cents in a more concise way.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 10/22/2009 01:19:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]

If you aren't smart enough, or are so damned ideologically driven that you actually buy into the right-wing revisionist version of the Nazis as being "liberal" you should not be teaching children Bobo.

 

So ultra-nationalism, racism, anti-unionism, anti-communism, strident militarism, and extreme social authoritarianism are "liberal" qualities Bobo?  Really?

 

Was it also "liberals" in the deep South fighting tooth and nail to maintain the "peculiar institution" of slavery, while conservatives in the North decided it was time to end that abomination?  Were those southern judges that let murderers off the hook because of "northern agitators" liberals too?

 

Come on Bobo.  You don't get to make up your own facts, even if the actual facts have a "well known liberal bias."

by twalters0 on 10/22/2009 04:23:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]

What I'd like to see is a return to more objectivity.The "lies collection" could be checked again by the media, and people would actually start talking about what's a fact and what's not.

If Fox News gets like 80% of debunked (and confirmed) lies, the rest of the media will automatically use that as an indicator for their own credibility as opposed to Fox News, and there might be some competition for credibility. It would be a way to change the conversation in a manner that's interesting for the media, too.

by OldGerman on 10/19/2009 04:50:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Faux News ... is not news .. not because they are bias .. (lean right) .. some of the News Network Cenk listed in the "Straight News" category IMO shouldn't be there .. because they lean both right/left respectively ..

Faux news is not news .. simply because they have an AGENDA ... which is:

  1. Go on the Offensive .. try to bring down a Democratic Administration ... by any means necessary ... by smearing/ reporting false-hoods/half-truths .... searching for all the bad press they can find ... to report ...

  2. Go on the Defensive .. try to prop up a Republican Administration ... by any means necessary ... by smearing/ reporting false-hoods/half-truths on his opposition .... searching for all the good press they can find ... to report ... the last 8 years can attest to this ...

  3. Even they way they report Good Press/News about Democrats .. is amusing/disgusting .. they will report it but will always add some negative commentary with it ... (out-loud or with their ticker/dashboard) .. something they will never do ... with Republican Good Press/News ...

  4. Lastly their "Fox Fact" is comical they seldom if ever use outside Fact-checkers like  "FactCheck" or "Politifact" ....

Here how one of their Fox Fact goes:

"The Democrats have been accused of having Death-Panels in their HC Bill" .. FOX FACT!!

They will never let their viewers know if it's true or not .. but how they word it will be implied that it is true ...

A Proud Progressive!!!

by teron678 on 10/19/2009 05:55:19 PM EST

What I don't understand is why reasonably intelligent folks don't seem to understand that even the slogan "Fair and Balanced" reflects some bias.  That is to say (as Cenk has pointed out on occasion) balance in reporting is not always fair.  If the two sides (or more) on any given issue do not have equal merit, it is not "Fair" to report them as being "Balanced"

by ddupee on 10/20/2009 09:55:07 AM EST

Video proof  Fox is biased

HERE


by Chinese Democracy on 10/20/2009 03:50:19 PM EST

I think the White house should attack Fox, and point out what they are, but in the middle of a health care war, I wonder if they're doing this to distract from the HCD and to appease the liberal base who are disgruntled so far with the white house.

Its commonplace for liberals to criticise Fox news for how partisan they are, and how they deny it, but at the end of the day, its not liberals that watch Fox, its conservatives, who eat up the vitriol of Fox, and no matter how they're criticised, Fox will continue to be partisan, attack Obama and make up fake controversy and news.

I'm not against Obama and co attacking Fox, because when somebody keeps hitting you you have to retaliate, but I'm suspicious of the timing, and the actual agenda.

by Adronias on 10/20/2009 07:50:15 PM EST

Let's face it no station, show, or any media outlet does it for the love of providing news or opinion. They do it to MAKE money. Right Left or Inbetween.  Keith, Rush, Bill, Rachel, TYT, WSJ, NYT or even the grocery store tabloids.  They report what their buyers want to hear. 

People are not going to pay ($'s for subscription or their time sitting and watching the damn commercials) to listen to stuff they disagree with.

Want more proof?  How many ties do you listen to your favorite people and say they are flat wrong?  Oh never probably.  Why would I sit and listen to Rush if I disagree with his point of view?  I listen to Rachel or Ed because I agree with them.

They have to sell commercial time.  They have to get listeners.  You gather the most selling what people want not peddling what people don't.
 
There are Starbucks on every corner because the people want their products.  Ed says what he does to get the most people watching so he can get the most money from commercials.  Do you go to a place because you hate their product?

TYT have the same mission.  Sell a product, get listeners, increase commercial income, put it in their pockets.

There's nothing wrong with that.  Go guys go.  They work their tails off and they sell a good product.  But they all sell their opinion, some you like some you hate.

But I doubt there is any real straight news out there, doesn't sell.

by northernlightsdemocrat on 10/21/2009 05:45:51 PM EST

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