10/30/2009 10:29:04 PM EST

Should a female get as much jail time as a male would for having sex with a 13 year old student?

posted by AnaKasparian

In today's third hour, Cenk and Ana discussed a 33-year-old social studies teacher who had sex with her 13-year-old student. She might face 25 year in jail for statutory rape, but Cenk and Ana both agree that is too much jail time. Cenk wonders whether or not our audience believes a female should spend as much time in jail as a male would for statutory rape. Tell us what you think!

Email Print
Google Technorati del.icio.us digg reddit Facebook
< TYT Music Lists!! From the October 30th Show | TYT Music Lists!! From the November 2nd Show >

Poll

Should the female teacher get as much jail time as a male teach would for having sex with a 13 year old student?
Yes, they deserve equal jail time. 62%
No, the woman gets less jail time than a man would 36%
No, the woman gets more jail time than a man would 0%

Votes: 142
Results | Other Polls
 Display:
Should a female get as much jail time as a male would for having sex with a 13 year old student? | 36 comments (36 topical, 0 hidden)
The law is the law (none / 2)
I haven't yet seen the discussion, but I just don't see how you can reasonably set different rules for different genders, how is that right? Statutory rape is still statutory rape whether its committed by a man or a woman.

The law is simple, if you have sex with someone who is too young to legally consent to sex, then that's statutory rape. So if you are going to argue that there should be different standards for men and women, then what possible argument can you make?! Is a boy of 13 able to consent and a girl of 13 not? Is a 13 year old girl more mentally fragile and therefore worse off than a 13 year old boy? Maybe a boy fantasize about getting laid, but don't girls fantasize about getting married and get into daddy types alot? Should we argue that if the victim liked it there is no crime or should result in less jail time? "Common judge, the girl wanted it, she moaned and orgasmed as i raped her judge, please be lenient, I wont ever raped a 13 year old girl again!" Why wouldn't that work for a guy but a female teacher can say "common judge, the boy loved it, gimme less time".

Yes there should be equal time for the exact same crime for both sexes. The assumption being made to forgive a female rapists are rather extreme.

by Smokin on 10/30/2009 11:07:41 PM EST

There's the vid! (none / 3)
Ana hands down wins the argument. Cenk is way too pervy and gross sometimes. Common, the story is about a 13 year old boy getting raped and Cenks busts out with "how youdoin" for a cop?!

The boy liking it or not has nothing to do with rape.

by Smokin on 10/30/2009 11:19:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Go Cenk (none / 2)

I disagree 'Smokin', the boy liking it or not is relevant, because the boy would want  it. I would have wanted sex at 13, I remember thinking about sex when I was in grade 4. I was outside talking with my friends about this chick in our class with these amazing tits, and one of my friends said that we shouldn't be thinking about stuff like that yet, that we were too young. Then someone else blurted out, 'what are you talking about!?' and we proceeded to discuss this girl and her rack.

Was I an idiot at that time? Yes, and I was an idiot up until highschool, after which I changed dramatically, but I was still able to decide for myself that I was interested in sex. If I had sex with a teacher at that age, it would not have been rape at all. I have no idea how a teacher would find a student attractive at that age, but I would have been all for it, and would think back on it fondly now.

by Sisyphus on 10/31/2009 12:25:44 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Why age limit trumps consensual (none / 1)

Do you think that hypothesis applies to all boys?

Do you think that all girls don't want sexual relations but guys do?

The issue here is the power relationship (teacher) and mental capacity to deal with the issues that surround this incident.

 Now as for Jail time, I agree with Sisyphus about whether she should be charged with rape, which does not fit the crime at all.  Also, what about her children?  This women clearly doesn't think, they will be missing a mother now. Maybe giver her house arrest instead...

by Quelthias on 10/31/2009 12:39:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Equality does not mean equal enforcement (none / 3)

First, the frequency of adult male with adolescent female sex occurs at a much higher rate that adult female sex with adolescent male. I am willing to guess that 10:1 ratio of adult male offenders to adult female offenders

Second, the social and psychological consequences are much greater for the adolescent female sex victim.

Thirdly, justice properly administered would reduce the occurrence of these crimes.   Harsher penalties for male offenders does more to  discourage this behavior, because male offenders are more likely to exhibit predatory behavior.  The female offender is likely to have some type of social trauma taking place in her life such as divorce, death of someone close or successive failed relationships.

Finally, males cannot have sex without being aroused and willing.   You are fighting the biological imperative for males.

by AmoebaMan on 10/31/2009 12:52:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Lets break it down (none / 0)
First, what does frequency of a crime have to do with anything? Hate crimes prob have a greater ratio than 10 to one, should those who commit hate crimes get less time because its less frequent? Since hate crimes against Asians is less than gays, should that be considered in sentencing?

Secondly, that's an assumption. What evidence and what information do you have that would suggest that a minor of any sex has greater or lesser psychological consequences ? I'll even argue what does that have to do with statutory rape? Should we argue that if a victim is not psychologically damaged that there should be less jail time?

Third, that's just BS.

Finally, just BS, so every woman who's been raped but got lubed also wanted it? Because their body responded to the stimulation? Its stupid to think that statutory rape has anything to do wanting sex or being able to perform, it has to do with a minor not being in the position to reasonably consent to the action.

by Smokin on 10/31/2009 10:28:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
rape (none / 0)
you're full of crap!!

by hanalei169 on 11/05/2009 12:30:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Just wanted to say (none / 1)

that i fully agree. There are so many assumptions and prejudices thrown around in this debate.

While there might be a difference between genders the difference between individuals of the same gender will always be greater. I know for sure i wasnt ready for sex at 13. I had other interests and priorities.

I would hate it if women ever got the idea its OK to seduce young boys, or that any guy who has a hardon wants to have sex right there and then.

And in contrast, its silly to believe that girls are asexual. Have these people ever read a magazine for young girls? The fixation with sex is absurd.

Ana is the clear winner of the debate and Cenk even admits that. I think this shows a great conflict in many minds (at least in my mind), because we so dearly want to believe the dogma of "men wants to spread their genes and women selects who gets to". Its the rationality behind a huge part of the social game between the sexes. And i think thats fine, i like the roles we play on a daily basis. But lets keep it out of the court.

by Sollerman on 11/01/2009 04:15:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Smokin (none / 0)

Your argument is actually for differentiating the laws covering this based on gender rather than against it.

 How about this?  Sex between a 13 year-old guy and a 30 year-old woman should not be illegal.  You do whatever you want if the genders are reversed.  Deal?

by cored on 11/02/2009 04:36:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sexual Relations between Adults and teenagers (none / 1)

Why is it that some people think that consensual "Statutory Rape" is the same as violent rape?

Make  the punishment for underage sex from 1 to 6 years (where I live 16 is legal) .  Punishment for rape should be 8 to 25 years (Canada is too lenient in this regard).

Pre-puberty or those with no knowledge about sex (ie cant explain who they like sexually) will automatically be considered rape.

Should children 12 and under apply to the definition of "pre-puberty?"

by Quelthias on 10/31/2009 12:27:08 AM EST

its the word rape (none / 0)

 People don't understand in the context it does not mean actual rape. Don't think rape when you hear Statutory Rape, think adult sex with a minor.

 This could be 18-19 years old person with a 15 year old.

by RocheTm on 11/05/2009 06:03:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
25 years is to much (none / 1)
I would have been really happy if that happen to me when i was 13 but i do not know how i would feel if the kid was mine , so i believe 3 to 5 years is enough. But a guy doing it to a 13 year old girl would be bad because it will scar the girl for life. Man and women have a different way of looking at sex.

by waltabelai on 10/31/2009 01:06:02 AM EST

perspective... (none / 1)

Perhaps we need to remember the law is to punish the offender, irrespective of what their offence's effects are.

 If someone almost kills someone by driving drunk, its just as bad as if they had killed someone. Just because the victim is saved, doesn't mean the offender is any less wrong.

 The same way, irrespective of how much the 13 yr old wants it, the adult has to excersice restraint.

by Krish on 10/31/2009 01:24:21 AM EST

Re: perspective... (none / 0)
I see your point and absolutely agree with it in reference to drunk driving but in the case of statutory rape I think that the effects of the crime can be mitigated somewhat by the actions and intentions of the adult. For example, there can be a big difference between someone manipulating a child to obtain sex, and someone who finds themselves falling for said child. While you're right that the adult should always draw that line and exercise constraint, the former case has to be seen as being far more damaging to the child and should be punished correspondingly.

by tdurran on 10/31/2009 07:35:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]
fall into live? (none / 0)
Well, I guess the difference is I can't see someone just "falling" for some child. You don't "fall" in love, you steadily push yourself into love.

by Krish on 11/02/2009 11:32:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's not just a legal niceity. (none / 0)
Statutory rape isn't merely a technicallity when a woman is the perpetrator. The law is there because of the amount of power an adult can have over a child in that situation. If you consider how messed up an adult guy can sometimes be over a woman then you have to multiply that by incredible amounts when it's a child. Looking back on my early relationships with girls, even non sexual  ones with girls of my age, I often wonder what I was thinking and why I'd let them do x, y, or z to me. If they had been grown women and the relationship was sexual, I wouldn't have stood a chance eith them.

by tdurran on 10/31/2009 07:24:46 AM EST

I just remembered, I was raped! (none / 1)
Ok, so here it goes, my rape story.

I was about 14, and really horny, boners popping out every other hour. Anyway I was at a party where an older woman became very interested in me, she was at least in her mid 20's, and that night we were both drunk and she took me back to her place and fucked me. I was one happy kid, I fucked her a few times that weak and then took off when she got clingy and I was starting to get serious with someone my own age at the time too.

Anyway, as I think back at that lil episode, no I don't think it was "rape" or "violent" or "malicious" but I do know now think it was rape, ...statutory rape. As a 14 year old kid, hell yeah Ill stick my dick in a chick who lets me, I'm 14 of course what else would I do?! But as an adult, that woman is not something I would mess with. She was SKANKY! A chola who slept around and now that I'm older and more aware of the consequences to picking bad partners I look back and think I was lucky I didn't contract something nasty.

It was statutory rape because at 14 I'm not able to make the right choices or smart choices when it comes to sex, the only answer a 14 year old kid will give when it comes to sex is yes. They wont think about pregnancy,  STDs, the emotional baggage a chick could bring along for the ride, or consider anything else which is why statutory rape is and should be against the law, for both men and women.

Here is where my hypocrisy shines though, do I think she should have gotten time for sleeping with me, no, but I answer that cause I got lucky and don't have a kid, an STD, or some crazy chick causing more drama in my family and personal life. Do I regret getting laid, nope, cause I got away with it. As an adult would I chose to do the same thing again, Hell No, and I think that's the point here.

by Smokin on 10/31/2009 10:45:40 AM EST

equal is equal (none / 0)
Either both genders are equal under the law or they are not.

You wanted equality, now you got it, both good and bad.

Deal with it, ladies, deal with it. Cowgirl up and take the responsibility, or admit you're not ready to be fully equal.

One or the other. You cannot pick and choose.

by RedPossum on 10/31/2009 12:26:29 PM EST

Equality (none / 0)
This argument is ridiculous.  Anna was the one arguing for equality.  I don't know that any woman has argued that women should get less time.  What I hear is a lot of guys saying, "Hey, I was a thirteen year old boy..."

by shiannejessica on 11/03/2009 01:58:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
No time for the teacher (none / 0)

13 year old guy with hot teacher = no jail time, no question.

She should be fired, sure, but jail is ridiculous.

 If you want to say that if you reverse the roles, the situation would be unacceptable, then that's fine, but there is no reasonable reason that laws must treat men and women exactly the same.

 Men and women should be treated equally, yes, but not necessarily the same, because as any moron can see, men and women are not exactly the same, and therefore may require slightly different protections under the law.

 Statutory rape, where given a certain hard number, it's always considered rape regardless of whether or not the alleged victim says the sex was consensual, is absolutely necessary.  In the extreme, you can't have a 3-year-old on the stand, answering that question.  It's ridiculous.

 So there has to be some hard number, below which there is no discussion, such that if a sex act took place, it's rape.

 Where that number should be, and whether or not the sexes of the alleged offenders and/or victims, should be taken into account, I can't say.  That's not my area of expertise.

However, as someone who has been a 13-year-old guy, I know for certain that no crime occurred in this case, and it's ridiculous to to put this chick in jail for what a vast majority of 13-year-old guys would give their left nut for.

by cored on 10/31/2009 01:01:44 PM EST

Hell Naw ! (none / 0)

 

Let me break it down this way.  Unless this 13 year old feels like he was forced to do this ( grade exploitation..etc ) , then there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with this.

Speaking as someone who was once a 13 year old walking hormonal hard on, there is nothing bad at all about this.  For one thing, this kid is now the man. He gets immediate status and street cred . I would have killed for that at that age ( no not literally ).  The other thing is that now he has one "under his belt", he will probably not be spending wasting 90% of his time duing the next 5 years of his junior high and highschool experience wondering what it's going to be like. Hence this kid can only see an upside to his academic success.

Let me say that I am for this case but not other cases in male dominated societies where parents , usually fathers, get their sons a prostitute a very young age.  I find that kind of thing terrible as it demeans women and lets men think that women are just sex objects. This case was completely different. It was consensual and it seemed to be more than just a romp...so we should let it go.

 

With that being said, she should be fired for going after underage adults.

 

by purplefish on 10/31/2009 05:37:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What about a 30 yr old guy sleeping with a girl? (none / 0)
So do you feel the same about a 30 year old guy sleeping with a 13 year old if she does not feel like she was forced?

If you say the situation is different, its frankly an embarrassingly chauvinistic.

by Smokin on 10/31/2009 07:34:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Re smokin (none / 0)
Why?  Why can't we have a reasonable conversation about this, using logic instead of emotions?

If your premise is that every law must treat men and women exactly the same, I'd call that embarrassingly simplistic.

And maybe it should be legal (keep in mind I still think regardless of gender, the teacher should be fired) for the 30 year-old dude and the 13 year-old chick.  I think probably not, but it definitely should not be illegal for a 30 year-old chick and a 13 year old guy.

by cored on 11/02/2009 04:54:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Why? (none / 0)
Why must you characterize everything you disagree with as being emotional and illogical, rather than to use logic yourself and offer reasoned response?

My premise is that the reason why statutory rape is illegal is valid for both boys and girls and why both men and women who commit that crime should be dealt with in the same manner. There is no logical argument you or anyone else has made to justify why women should be treated differently, but rather rely on "cause I think so".

by Smokin on 11/03/2009 05:41:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Equal Jail Time Because... (none / 0)
They should get equal jail time BUT there should be something in the law that discerns a situation between rape and consensual sex.  I agree with Ana on this! 

Yes, a thirteen year old boy or girl may be too young to understand the baggage and everything that goes along with having sex, but they are old enough to know whether they want to have sex or not. The physical thing and the ability to say yes or no is there.  That's the bottom line.   

They know what they are doing.  Hell, I hadn't even gone through puberty at 10 years old but I knew it would be the best thing ever!  It is pleasureable, it can end up in pregnancy, it is taking a relationship to a different level, it is risking STD, it is fun, it is scary.  They know this.  A 13 year old knows the difference between saying no and saying yes.  "No" means he/she was raped.  "Yes" means he/she wanted to and it was permitted.  This would be easy to add to the law!

No, an adult - teacher or anything else - needs to really weigh the concequences here (especially in today's society) for him/herself and for the other person.  80 years ago, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal.  I knew a teacher, now deceased, that taught 80 years ago.  He had a sexual relationship with one of his students.  She became pregnant.  She had the baby.  The parents were disappointed in this BUT they never considered pursuing legal charges.  The parents accepted this.  The student and the teacher kept in contact.  The teacher never lost his job.  He was not an outcast of society and was never charged under any law.  Things have changed drastically...

by BoingBoing on 10/31/2009 08:24:18 PM EST

Experts opinion? (none / 0)

Well, Smokin got me there.

A 13yo male would stick his dick almost anywhere and it could be troubling because of STDs and such.

Even so, male and female psychological development is different and should be taken in consideration in the argument, therefore I believe that the kid should pay 2 or 3 visits to an specialized psychiatrist, then he could say if the kid is apt to testify. If the case is that the kid wanted to do it and had an emocional background then she could get less jail time if any...
That should apply to girls as well, but I believe it would be very hard to any men getting away with it, because of difference in development.

Women here in Brazil menstruate as young as 8yo and the hormonal cycle changes everything. Because of that we only considerate rape when the kids are under age 14 (so If a guy sleeps with a 14yo he'll not be charged with rape, only seduction crime if someone like their parents make it, and it's not really punished).

When I was 13 I deffinitely would have sex with a hot teacher but I would also definitely use a condom, because I already did have sex ed and I believe I was already mature enough

That being said, I'm still 19yo and may have no idea of what real maturity is, even though I'm a second year medicine student and therefore my opinion mean just a bit more than nothing.

by sycco on 10/31/2009 08:24:39 PM EST

What!? (none / 0)

Are we really even having this conversation? It's absurd to even think that someone should get more or less jail time depending on their gender, of all things!

What argument is being made, any way? Are 13 year old boys considered to be superior to 13 year old girls? Are they some how more clear in regards to being able to give consent? Does every boy want the sex but every girl doesn't? What?

by Saaduk on 10/31/2009 08:49:54 PM EST

lolwut? (none / 0)
Superior?? Who the hell said anyone is superior? Their different, brain development is different because it's hormone dependent among other things, why do you think women here in Brazil are considered.. well.. you know... It's beacause early hormone setting changes neural development and other body parts development.
Of coooourse society has something to do with it in male oral behavior that makes boys wanna have sex as young as possible and evrything, but that's not all.
Equality is not what people should be looking for here, equity is the right wording, because you always have to consider obvious differences between people.

by sycco on 10/31/2009 09:01:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hmph. (none / 0)

Judging by the way most people react to how much gender affects punishments, "superiority" tends to play a part. If a guy is given more jail time for sleeping with someone under-age who is a  girl then if it's the opposite case then obviously it should be equal jail time - it's the exact same crime.

As for chemical development, that's only in regards to the average person. It's referential to humanity as a whole, which is irrelevant when we're talking about specific things as we're narrowing it down.

by Saaduk on 12/05/2009 08:08:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes (none / 0)
Next question.

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 10/31/2009 10:55:24 PM EST

Totally Hipocritical (none / 1)
I was reading not too long ago that a 22 year old Male teacher, just out of college, was arrested for having sex with a 17 year old girl. He was sentenced to jail for 2 years. I'm not condoning what he did, but if the situation was reversed and he was a woman with a 17 year old male, there would definitely not be any jail time what-so-ever. I'm sick of this double standard. It hasn't been that long ago that I was a high school student myself. I remember I had a couple football coaches that were also teachers and they were pretty good lookin, young dudes. There also happend to be alot of girls in my school that were smokin hot and dressed really sluttly. They were flirt endlessly with my coaches. I used to think to myself, If I was them, I'd prob bang a couple of them. Now, I happen to be a bit wiser now, but I don't remember any of us boys dressing to show off our bulge or anything. I think it is harder for male teachers than women teachers because male students don't flaunt their bodies like girls do. Does anyone mention that having sex with a 13 year old is really creepy and you have to actually have something wrong with you to do that? I mean this chick has a mental problem.

by grkmachine10 on 11/01/2009 03:17:48 AM EST

My Opinion.. (none / 0)
I know we are supposed to believe that on the basis of gender, people should be equal in sentencing.. however on the base of the facts I hear in this case I have to say the woman deserves less jail time than a man would in that situation. I know this view is unpopular but let's face it, men and women are not the same .. it's the biggest split between people in our society, much larger than religion, social-economic class or political affiliation. Returning to the facts of the case, that student couldn't be happier ... How often do you hear young women associating sex with love, and feeling pressured by somebody they love and trust ? This we hear all the time ... How often do you hear of a man complaining that he was tricked into having sex by a woman ? It's just not likely. It's also different because to have sex with a man (or boy in this case) they have to consent physically as well as verbally (use your imagination, I won't get into a sex education lesson). To make my stance perfectly clear, at the age of 13 a boy can consent to sex, it's our instinct to desire sex after puberty while it's the instinct of women to be a little more selective when choosing a mate, facilitating natural selection. It would be an absurdity to try and submit that this boy has reached sexual maturity in court, and for that reason (as well as discouragement of future cases, and also because the defendant was in a position of authority over the 'victim') I say yes, the defendant should face jail time ... but not much, In the real world this woman's life will be completely ruined by these events, and that is her punishment for this lapse of judgment.

by shenron64 on 11/01/2009 10:01:48 AM EST

This is absurd! (none / 0)
I'd like to ask a question to those who think that women should deserve less jail time than men who have sex with their 13 year old students.... The main argument that I have heard people say is that a 13 year old boy is less traumatized by the experience than a 13 year old girl would be. Now here is my question. If a male teacher was having a an sex with a 13 year old boy, do you think he should be treated the same as a woman who does the same thing? I highly doubt it.

by grkmachine10 on 11/02/2009 01:30:38 AM EST

Male VS Female Sexuallity.... (none / 0)

I'd like to see another poll that I think is relevant to our (societies) double standard on this issue...

At what age did you become sexually active, and by "active" I'm including masturbation.

I have no problems letting you fine people know that I was 11 or 12 I got off. Alone. From that very moment it was game on. I would have jumped at the opportunity to bone a teacher and, in fact had a massive hard-on for Michelle Phifer who is probably at least 30+ years my senior.

I have a sneaking suspicion most men are in the same boat.

On the other side of the coin – and I'm guessing based on observation – that while women are sexual being too, the way they come into that arena is drastically different.

Let me know. Lets share... 

by schnate124 on 11/03/2009 12:38:30 PM EST

rape (none / 0)
The oprative words "in the context of our time". There should'nt be mandated minimum sentencing.People make too much ado about sex.That said,rape is rape,and statutory rape is a bunch of crap. And yes I do have a daughter,she is grown now and I took the time to help teach her life skills.

by hanalei169 on 11/05/2009 12:26:53 AM EST

Underage sex and the Teacher (none / 0)

I did watch, and Ana is right on all points. PLUS with our attempting to have equality in all things, regardless of race, sex, religion, the sentences for male and female offenders MUST be equal.

Also, the consensual aspect must be figured in. Cenk and I see this about the same - I've seen some very young hot girls, but 13 is too young for sex even in "marriage", even if the other party is 15, though jail would probably be wrong for such a young person as there is just s couple years difference (a 13-18 pairing, maybe jail for that). But I had a teacher I wanted in 12th and if we had sex, she should not have been prosecuted. Not sure that she should lose her job even today. After all, I went after her. (She was about as pretty as the woman in this story, or better)

NON-consensual MUST be prosecuted, of course. HARD!

by Realist1953 on 11/09/2009 05:23:00 PM EST

Should a female get as much jail time as a male would for having sex with a 13 year old student? | 36 comments (36 topical, 0 hidden)
 Display: