11/06/2009 09:57:21 PM EST

9/11 Conspiracy Theory... Were there bombs in the World Trade Center?

posted by ericalexander77

Sorry to open up an old scab, but has anyone ever heard mainstream media discuss whether there were explosives in the world trade center? I'm generally not a believer in conspiracy theories, but I recently heard an account from a 9/11 witness stating that he saw and heard an explosion in the base of the world trade center even before the first plane hit. Why have I never heard about this?

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Poll

Was there a cover up of an explosion in the WTC on 9/11?
Yes 33%
No 66%

Votes: 15
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9/11 Conspiracy Theory... Were there bombs in the World Trade Center? | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 hidden)
A couple of points on this... (none / 0)

Point 1 - I read that setting up a controlled demolition itself would require so much preparation that there's no real way they could cover that up.  As for separate explosives?  I couldn't say, but also I'm not sure if they'd have a significant effect.

Point 2 - I read those little tufts of smoke below the collapse of the buildings were pockets of air being expelled from the buildings, most likely from the elevator shafts.  That makes sense to me...

It is possible there were explosives somewhere, but probably not, and I don't think it could have been a controlled demolition.

by staticnz on 11/06/2009 10:50:04 PM EST

lol (none / 0)
"I'm generally not a believer in conspiracy theories, but I recently heard an account from a 9/11 witness stating that he saw and heard an explosion in the base of the world trade center even before the first plane hit."

I'm going to deal with just this sentence because the reams of evidence that nullify every 9/11 conspiracy theory is too  much right now.

When I was an introductory psychology student my teacher said that during his first psychology course a man burst into the classroom, took the professor's briefcase, then ran out. The professor proceeded to quiz the class of 30(?) about the incident. He received 30 different descriptions of the man-- most were wildly off the mark.
Never rely on small details in first-hand accounts. The mind plays tricks-- temporally and sensorily.

by FlaccidMember on 11/06/2009 11:24:59 PM EST

To expand on that (none / 0)

There is a phenomenon in psychology, I forget the term, but it basically involves your brain creating fake memories.

They took a guy, and had his parents and people he trusted tell him about this one time he had been lost in a mall for hours when he was young, and the police had gotten involved in a search for him. He started to remember that incident, talking about how he had been really scared and he went into detail about the incident.

The incident never happened. His brain fabricated all of that. Just because someone says they saw something, doesnt mean they did.

There's a very fine line between not listening, and not caring. I like to think that I walk that line every day of my life. -Leonard Church-

by Byne on 11/07/2009 01:17:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Many names depending on the reason (none / 0)
It depends on the reason why people change their memories. For example young rape victims often chose to remember something positive instead of the traumatic event. In case of this eye-witness it might have to do with memory bias or the Asch Paradigm.

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."

by opposition on 11/07/2009 01:51:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (none / 0)
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

They tell the whole story, in pure Engineering terms.

Yes, there were controlled demolitions, that's the only reason why the buildings fell straight down. The little puffs you see were explosive squibs; the volume of air was far too great to be compressed and cause those puffs.

The evidence is there, under all the straw man bullshit, it's just a lot of work to sort it all out.

My uncle was a pilot for United Airlines all his adult life, and he says there are also gross inconsistencies in the aviation part of the "story", but I don't pretend to understand those.

Yes, 9/11 was a scam, a con job. We were lied to.

From a pure propaganda perspective, I have to admire those behind this scam, though. The 9/11 coverup was a beautiful, impeccably-managed example of the Big Lie technique. And the ultimate beauty of it is that people desperately want to believe the Lie, because if they don't believe it, they must then question things they are totally unprepared to question. It becomes a case of "I'm going to believe this, because I just don't have time to deal with the implications of not believing it."

by RedPossum on 11/07/2009 11:21:02 AM EST

Loose change... (none / 0)
Screw loose change...
Screw screw loose change...
And several editions of each.

I really don't know the truth, but it seems strange to me that most of the conspiracy believers come from America. People in Europe questioned wether it was a plot by the government (which I really don't find unbelievable), but all these scientific arguments come mainly from America. European scientists seem at least to believe that the collapse was not staged.

To a lot of Europeans that would not be hard to believe in the implications of not believing it. American politicians willing to sacrifice Americans to secure their power? That's really nothing new.

I can believe that America sponsored the terrorists and enabled them, but not that they would controll the demolition. The planes flying in the buildings are enough for the cameras, the collapse is just an added bonus. To risk the exposure of a controlled collapse seems to dangerous to me.

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."

by opposition on 11/07/2009 11:37:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Hurp Durp Loose Change (none / 0)

You realize that the tallest building ever brought down with controlled demolitions (439ft) took over 4000 separate charges to bring down and it took a preparation period of 7 months before they were ready to bring it down? That they had an abandoned building entirely to themselves to work on, and it took 7 months.

The World Trade Centers were around 1365 feet tall. Each. If the same proportionate amount of charges were needed, then there would have been around 12400 charges in each building.

Thats 24800 charges in total.

All of which would have to have been placed at night, and any holes made in walls would need to be covered up so no one got suspicious.

Not one of the 50,000 people who worked in the towers or 200,000 visitors that came every weekday were to know about this.

None of the dogs trained to sniff out even one bomb that were regularly brought to the towers were able to sniff out even one of the 24800 bombs that were in the towers.

This would have taken months, but no one noticed somehow. 

You're right, we're the mindless sheep here.

There's a very fine line between not listening, and not caring. I like to think that I walk that line every day of my life. -Leonard Church-

by Byne on 11/07/2009 01:32:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
At least we know the steel was in good shape (none / 0)
Check out this link:

Seems that the steel was not below standards as it was used to build a new navy ship called the USS New York.  So much for that government theory.  

Anybody with critical thinking skills can see that something is strange about 9/11.  

by sampson on 11/07/2009 10:44:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
9/11 conspiracy is garbage (none / 0)
Every conspiracy about 9/11 has been debunked dozens of times. And to be honest I just think it's offensive to the people who died that day.

One thing you will never hear explained is how a covert operation of that size was planned and carried out in secret.

Pulling something like 9/11 off would have taken dozens if not hundreds of people planning.

All of these people willing went along with killing thousands of fellow Americans with no problems? None of them have ever grown a conscience? Not one shreed of evidence has ever leaked?

Believing that crap is just uneducated garbage.

by Tony227 on 11/07/2009 12:31:57 PM EST

Well guys... (none / 0)
Im sorry to engage in the conversation like this. Especially since i feel like i see all sides of the spectrum and can have an honest, unbiased opinion about it. 9/11 might not have been a "planned demolition", but I would DEFINITELY agree that the attack was seen from afar and could have been prevented. As the years have passed and i've grown more mature and opened my eyes a little more, when I look back at Bush, Cheney, Rice, and everybody else, it's hard for me to believe that what happened on 9/11 was not used for political and economic gain. "Weapons of mass destruction", i know we are all tired of hearing it lol, but we have to look at the OBVIOUS failure of the media and the consistent will to not want to find the REAL reason why we attacked back into the spot light. We know its not because "they hate us for our freedom", which is the most tired bull shit i've heard, but even THINKING , and using your MIND seems to be a crime in this country, and that my friends, is what the took from us. So I dont think that we should be mad at people who believe these things, because there's a reason they believe it, 8 years later and we still havent had a legitimate reason why our entire sytem failed for one day. Why were we attacked in the first place??? Why are we not finding these weapons??? Why are we going to the wrong places to fight??? Why cant we just have an honest and  INTELLIGENT conversation about what happened and stop pointing fingers at everybody, because in the end, both sides of this argument want the same thing, to have the soul's and memories of those people who died to be put to rest...

by thoedboi20 on 11/07/2009 01:04:39 PM EST

and another thing (none / 0)

I too have seen many of the arguments for and against the 9/11 conspiracy, but there is another angle to this thing. 

 America got a black eye. Either it was a Neo-con plot or truly the act of Osama and crew...it was 8 years ago, and we are still spending precious lives and resources just to settle the score...

 My advice to America is no matter what happened, get over it. Now, not to be confused with "forgetting", because yeah--never forget--but we are falling right into what the perpetrators wanted.

 For example, the tragedy at Mt. Hood this week was terrible, but the Conservative suggestion that we should halt the health care vote because of the act of a deranged asshole...you are letting one hateful act cripple your entire country. This is what terrorism looks like when it works. You pop someone stronger than you, get them angry and paranoid, and their daily activities are slowed or stopped. I think the bigger issue is why we haven't rebuilt the towers, why we can't say alright, some asshole punked us, lets move on...

 Please, I'm not suggesting that we don't fight terrorism with military force, but ultimately, what causes terrorism isn't bad guys in caves, but rather poverty, desperation, and the image of great and terrible power in the eyes of the hopeless. Osama couldn't convince me to kill myself to prove a political point...I've got way too much to live for. However, take away my home, my food supply, make my world brutal and ugly...who knows what I might do. If you want to stop terrorism, you have to work on healing the ties between people, and fixing our image in the world. That way, when someone says America is the Great Satan, more folks would be less inclined to believe it.

by uncledarren on 11/07/2009 04:05:39 PM EST

Memory Lane (none / 0)
My earlier comment about 9/11 was so good, I'll use it again here:

LINK

by OneHitKill on 11/08/2009 05:13:45 AM EST

Well, that was fun (none / 0)
Well, that was fun. What's next on the agenda?

Flight 800? Oklahoma City? JFK? :)

by RedPossum on 11/08/2009 10:38:34 AM EST

WTF is wrong with you people? (none / 0)

a 255,000 lb aircraft with 100,000 lbs of fuel flies into a building at 400 knots. The fuel catches on fire at temps up to 1600 degrees...building falls down.

Why is this a surprise to anyone?

Why have you never heard about this? I suspect you haven't been paying attention for the last 8 years. The "witness", the "conspiracy" has been debunked so many times by now it has become a new "grassy knoll".

Give it a rest.

 

 

by Sock Puppet Fred on 11/08/2009 11:54:31 AM EST

As I said (none / 0)
As I said to start with, there is a great deal of strawman bullshit to sift through. There are so-called "claims" which have been made simply so that they may then be "debunked".

It requires patience to evaluate the evidence carefully.

by RedPossum on 11/08/2009 01:41:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bigfoot, Line two...Bigfoot, Line two! (none / 0)

AE 9/11 spews pure nonsense. Im sure Gage at least is making big bucks with speaking fees. Start with these:

"What Did and Did not Cause Collapse of WTC Twin Towers in New York"  Journal of Engineering Mechanics ASCE, Vol. 134 (2008).

Refutation of controlled demolition theory. Discusses matching of video record with progressive collapse equations, "free-fall" claims, concrete crushing (and how much TNT equivalent would be needed to do that crushing), air pressure & ejection of air, spread of dust cloud.

 Debunking 9/11 Debunking:PDF

Clear, concise refutation of David Chandler's WTC 7 "freefall" claims, by "alienentity." Part 1. Part 2.  See also his video "WTC7 Collapse."

by Sock Puppet Fred on 11/08/2009 02:50:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sometimes you have to respect right-wingers (none / 0)
They started this whole controlled demolition myth. Most sane people do their best to show that they are nonsense.

This is a perfect strawman.

The people who are most likely to say that the Bush government was responsible (organising, training or just looking the other way) now explain why it was no controlled demolition.

That's totally brilliant.

The government is responsible, and they don't even have to deny it, because they had people claiming they did it a certain way. They didn't do it that way, which can be proven. The general gist people get is they didn't do it.

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."

by opposition on 11/08/2009 03:16:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
9/11 Conspiracy Theory... Were there bombs in the World Trade Center? | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 hidden)
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