Now the truth on Jon Stewart and Climate courtesey Keith Olberman.

And he also gives FIX NOISE's Fox and friends cast WORST PERSON'S IN THE WORLD!!!

So if you clicked the idiot's link below here is the ENTIRE piece that was presented byJohn Stewart, led in by Keith Olberman who correctly calls out the fox news idiots for exactly what they are. I will not comment just watch the clip. Thank you.


http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=6t0ehfJHrak

 The Right is such a whimsical place. Kinda like a room in Chattahoochee with a full frontal labotomy.

< The Irrefutable Stupidity of Sarah Palin | What do you know about TARP? >
 Display:
These climategate/Jon Stewart threads compile several of my current pet peeves.  First, I get annoyed when people post a link to a video with no summary, description or conclusions.  Watching video on internet sometimes doesn't work too well, or takes a lot of time, and often I want to READ what the point of the video is so that I don't have to watch it if I don't want to. (One of the rules of the forum by the way is that you are not allowed to just post links with no additional commentary.)

Second problem, redunant posts.

Third problem, which is actually more amusing than anything, there is this movement to boycott KenTX/Hugh's posts, but every time he posts something, the leaders of the boycott comment on it.  Isn't that kind of self deafeating?

Finally, Climategate itself.  I still don't really understand what was in these emails.  Also, I am annoyed at one response of the climate science community, that is to try to distract from the whole affair by saying that the emails were stolen and released in a criminal manner. That may be true, and lawyers can sort that out, but for us in the general public, who cares how or why the emails got out?  We want to focus on the substance.  Calling the leakers criminals and investigating them is Bush/Cheney/Rove/Gonzalez procedure.  I'm not interested.

Since the problem with climate change has been called "global warming", people who advocate preventative action feel the need to focus on temperature of the world, and apparently these scientists tried different ways to present that data to make it look more alarming (without falsifying any data).  This focus on "temperature" annoys me. The problem with injecting so much CO2 into the atmosphere is much more complicated and has many more effects than just a higher temperature in the world.  So this whole thing is really stupid.

David

by davidk on 12/07/2009 12:06:01 PM EST

"....Site administrators may delete any comments or replies deemed inappropriate as spam, trolling, threats, offensive, redunant, unproductive, etc.

Here are some general guidelines for new stories:

If you are making a brief comment about a current issue, please make sure there is not already a thread on that issue. Redundant posts may be deleted.

Please avoid posting long passages of text pasted from other sources or just links, especially if you do not include reaction and commentary of your own. These unoriginal posts may be deleted....."

 

With respect, commenting on the reason for the boycott may be stupid, time will tell, but no less so than than periodically citing forum rules that are rarely, or selectively, enforced.

Regardless of the end result, Hubble and I refuse to dignify trolling and flame baiting with our further participation.

Of course other users are free to do what they will, and will participate and follow our suggestion, or not, in their own way.

RF

by Sock Puppet Fred on 12/07/2009 12:37:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"The problem with injecting so much CO2 into the atmosphere is much more complicated and has many more effects than just a higher temperature in the world."

That is precisely the problem the scientific community has to deal with every day.   Among themselves there is an understanding that there is no such thing as knowing for sure, that as the data slowly accumulates it is never possible to make absolute statements, that everything they do is an estimation.  They are prepared to accept that.   They are perfectly aware of the complexity of the relationship between CO2 and climate, in fact, they are the ones who developed what we do know.   They feel almost certain that the temperature will continue to climb but know full well that the climb will probably be irregular, in fits and starts, with a long term upward trend.  

The problem is that the words they must use as scientists to acknowledge uncertainty do not provoke a response among the public to act.   There is an incredible number of people who think that a 5 degree increase in global temperature means simply that the afternoon will be 75 degrees instead of 70, so what's the big deal?  That kind of simplistic attitude is exploited by the other side, and it's a hell of a tough problem.  At the same time, there is an increasing realization that there may well be a limited amount of time left for a successful response to the problem.   They feel a need to convey urgency but must do so hobbled by their instincts to use language with words that in the political world are considered weasel words, like "maybe", or "possibly", or "speculative".

The people who spend all of the money to try to discredit the science have no corresponding ethical imperative to moderate their language.   They speak freely of "conspiracies" by scientists to "scare us" and how this is "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated" and claim without qualification and with resolute certainty that it has been "proven" that the sun is to blame, or water vapor, or volcanoes, or cosmic rays, or that the earth is cooling, and on and on.  

Take the idiot argument that earth has been cooling, not warming, for the last decade.   I call it an idiot argument because so many idiots proclaim this "fact" without having any idea whatsoever that it's false.   The closest thing to truth that you can say about it is that the last 10 years have been warming, just not quite as fast as the 10 before.   Even so, 11 of the hottest years on record have been in the past 14 years, and the 2000s are expected to be the hottest decade ever reported.   When a large majority of the people who patrol these conservative "science" sites come away with the impression that the hottest decade on record was actually a cooling period we've got a serious disinformation problem.

So how the hell are scientists expected to combat this?   I can imagine the discussions that must go on.   The emails reflect some of that frustration.   They were saying in effect:

"Okay, we know the last 10 years have not warmed as fast as predicted.   We feel we ought to know why that is but we don't, which is often the case in complex systems.   Still we know that it doesn't change the overall picture because the melting is still going on within predicted ranges and all the detailed science keeps pointing back to the greenhouse effect.  We also know that the industries who pay big money to deliberately mislead the public will use this minor change and our admitted uncertainties about it to pretend that warming is no longer happening and to argue for continued inaction."

Is it any wonder that they sometimes try to fight fire with fire?   How would you defend yourself against that kind of attack from entities outside of the scientific community?  

Some do so by citing the worst case scenarios.  Jim Hansen of NASA is a case in point.   I have seen numerous climate scientists who admit freely in their online writings that Hansen tends to predict on the high side of current estimates, and don't necessarily approve, but neither can they come right out and say he's wrong because it can certainly happen that way, especially if certain positive feedback loops come into play.   Most scientists don't feel entitled to include such uncertain possibilities in their predictions, even though the constitute a real possibility.   The other side has no problem doing so.


by bfaul on 12/07/2009 02:37:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
All it would have taken was:

"Second problem, redundant posts.
 

Third problem, redundant posts.

Fourth problem which is actually more amusing than anything..."

That's just too good an opportunity to let pass by. You never know when it will come again!

by MedfordTim on 12/07/2009 04:23:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Like Major Major Major Major it's all very logical.

<hr>Maj. Major Major Major: Sergeant, from now on, I don't want anyone to come in and see me while I'm in my office. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir? What do I say to people who want to come in and see you while you're gone?
Maj. Major Major Major: Tell them I'm in and ask them to wait.
First Sgt. Towser: For how long?
Maj. Major Major Major: Until I've left.
First Sgt. Towser: And then what do I do with them?
Maj. Major Major Major: I don't care.
First Sgt. Towser: May I send people in to see you after you've left?
Maj. Major Major Major: Yes.
First Sgt. Towser: You won't be here then, will you?
Maj. Major Major Major: No.
First Sgt. Towser: I see, sir. Will that be all?
Maj. Major Major Major: Also, Sergeant, I don't want you coming in while I'm in my office asking me if there's anything you can do for me. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. When should I come in your office and ask if there's anything I can do for you?
Maj. Major Major Major: When I'm not there.
First Sgt. Towser: What do I do then?
Maj. Major Major Major: Whatever has to be done.
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 12/07/2009 04:41:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
 Display: