"The Worst Generation" or "Torture, Not Just for Juntas Anymore"



nazitorture

Still... 
abughraib_us
Iraqi Freedom...
armybitch

Cenk is soo wrong about this 'not holding the agents of torture responsible' business. Does he also believe that the nazi guards during WWII should not have paid a price?? "I was just following orders" seems to be good enough for our big guy. I really do not agree. Perhaps I am olde-fashioned but I really do believe that anyone who is serving our country should be aware of what defines War Crimes.

Coming from a long military tradition, I can tell you that Cenk is severely mis-representing the capabilities of our own people. They are quite able to distinguish what is just and moral from what is villainous. Those few that are willing to disregard their oath to uphold the Constitution and the Geneva Convention rulings are criminals. They would be criminals if they were civilians and being in the CIA or military does not mitigate their culpability one iota. 

These agents and or soldiers are given the power over life and death so they must be held to a higher standard, not lower. I do not want automatons representing me or my country in these situations. I do want people who know right from wrong and will not participate in heinous criminal behaviour. Unlike Cenk, I do want them second-guessing criminal orders. In an ideal world they wouldn't have to. Sometimes things go awry in the world of politics and despots come to power. America should not lose its soul because of a hanful of sociopaths. If enough of these guys had questioned the torture they were being asked to commit we would not be in this situation right now.

Does it really take a legal eagle to know that putting a human being in a box with insects is wrong?? So, no-one but me has read George Orwell's "1984"?? Remember Room 101? Judge "Hang em' High" Bybee apparently read it. What Cenk said about not holding the people who actually committed these nefarious acts responsible smacks of "American Exceptionalism".  We go around the world preaching human rights to other countries but we will not even take our own medicine.

Perhaps Cheney and his ilk have won. They said in the beginning that we, as a country, were going to have to walk on the 'dark side', 'get our hands dirty'...'done' and 'done'. Some people seem okay with that, I am not. I keep remembering how at the end of WWII German soldiers continued fighting the Soviets so that they could surrender to the Americans. We are not that country anymore.
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"Bybee noted in the memo that the CIA agreed all tactics should be used under expert supervision. Other memos said waterboarding can be used only if the CIA has "credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent" and if a detainee is believed to have information that could prevent, disrupt or delay an attack, and other methods fail to elicit the information." ------------- If the ratio of persons tortured to "imminent attacks" isn't close to 1:1 then we know they are lying.

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 04/17/2009 04:35:38 PM EST

I stumbled on this movie by accident. Has anyone else seen this scene: http://tiny.cc/0oTKK

by toosinbeymen on 04/17/2009 05:40:07 PM EST

Those 'professionals' who were doing the 'interrogations' should have known damn good and well that the torture techniques just flat out don't work! Ok, maybe some dumb army grunts got assigned to do the actual torture (and get a pass), but the guys that told them what and how to do it - do not. They should have refused to do it on effectiveness grounds alone. I will never buy the old imminent threat argument. In that case, torture is the worst thing to do, as it would guarantee you failure.

 

 

by rolodex on 04/17/2009 07:25:25 PM EST

Great post mauirising, I agree.
Nuremburg established that there is NO excuse.
The culprits can plead following orders in mitigation.
It DOES NOT absolve them of the offence.

Obama has not and cannot re-establish the tattered remnants of the United States moral authority with words and promises. If these crimes are not prosecuted then a line will be clearly drawn above them rather than underneath them. Future offenders in the US and elsewhere can and will call on the precedent Obama is establishing.

by Milez on 04/17/2009 11:44:25 PM EST

I agree with all the criticism of the President's decision not to prosecute anyone involved in the crimes committed during the "War on Terror". It is wrong to not hold anyone accountable; it perpatuates an injustice which, unless he changes his mind, will harm the image of America as well as his presidency for a long time.

I have wondered why he decided to make this sacrifice, regarding both the sake of America and his own political credibility. It must be, I realize, a deep worry about the division of the American people, about his country drifting apart over fundamental differences of philosophical ideas and personal values.

As could be seen just this week, there is a significant minority of people who are so opposed to him, the Democratic party or anything that they regard as "leftist", that they go out and protest against his administration without even knowing what issues they protest against. They displayed wild anger and hatred, comparing him to Hitler, a communist, a baby killer and so on. Some southern states' officials and people play with the idea of seceding from the union.

Obama thinks he can be, and has to be, those peoples' President. Initiated by the famous speech he gave at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, in which he proclaimed to great applause that "there is not a liberal America and a conservative America — there is the United States of America", he sees himself as the person who has to unite the country. This is, I think, above everything else what he wants to be the legacy of his presidency.

That is why he wants to look forward, not backward. He doesn't want to humiliate the Republicans and conservatives, which he could easily do. For the sake of reconciliation, he feels he can't allow them to lose their face. This, in his mind, would do even greater and more lasting damage to America than the injustice of leaving the torturers and war criminals of the Bush years unpunished. 

by OldGerman on 04/18/2009 07:48:56 AM EST

Reverse engineer their torture techniques from military SERE, they could have gone and hired some out of work KGB and STASI torturers for minimum wage.

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 04/18/2009 03:57:09 PM EST

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