(and I feel badly doing this)...many people listing themselves as "Independents" over the last 10 years have been Democrats (ca. 2004) and now Republicans who a) remain fiercely loyal to an ultra-Liberal or ultra-Conservative opinion but don't want to be part of the "losing team," and/or b) want to claim that they have original, new ideas for the country but which generally fall into the contours of one side or the other, and/or c) want to "appear unbiased" when they trash the other side, so they adopt the ruse of calling themselves Independent in the hopes that it increases the validity of their attack.  "I'm no partisan, I'm an independent, but the spread of godless, socialist elitist weak-kneed Liberalism is evil and must be stopped.  Hey, you could see me saying this if I were a Republican, but an INDEPENDENT saying it?  It MUST be true."  Bill O'Reilly has always called himself an Independent so that he can retain his bogus 'impartial journalist credentials and go after each side without strings attached to party affiliation.'  He attacks the Left 90% of the time and with all of his contempt, and occasionally admonishes some Republican for (usually) their messaging (he agrees with the mindset, just not the PR campaign) or for not being Conservative enough.  In all politics, loyalties and demeanor, then, O'Reilly is a Republican, and he almost surely votes Republican, but he calls himself Independent.  As probably do 80% of all journalists (most of who lean Left), most judges (and we know that there is often clear bias there), etc.  Rush Limbaugh even says now that he is not a Republican, but a Conservative (as though that is a completely independent political strain which is unrelated to the Republican platform).  Michael Moore has made the same but opposite statement about himself not being a Democrat.

I do not see a huge swell of the "common sense moderate middle" wedging itself between the two extremes.  Jesse is a rare real Independent moderate, and even he sounds like a fed-up Liberal about 80% of the time.  If Congresspeople were to start becoming I's, most of them would be I's squarely in D or R clothes (probably R clothes at this point), but without funding from the national party (which is why we don't see more of it.)  How many senators currently could qualify as real moderate I's (and not Bernie Sanders/Pat Buchanan  kneejerk partisan I's)?  3 Republican senators (the two in Maine and Voynevich) and about 8 Democrats (Specter, Nelson, Bayh, Lieberman, Tester, etc.), and those on the Left proclaim that most of the ConservaDems might as well be right-wing Republicans (and vice versa).  Ideologically, then, maybe this constitutes about 11% of the Senate [not 37%], and while the Senate clearly misrepresents the country sometimes (1 black senator out of 100), independent moderates rarely challenge for Congressional seats.

  I would love to have Jesse on Cenk's show, I have been a fan of Jesse's for a long time, I think if Jesse endorsed Cenk's political courage it would be a good thing for TYT, but Cenk is not popular enough to seek any kind of large office (even with a sizeable audience), and he would not be able to stay out of controversy for speaking his mind.  At the end of the day, more voters still vote for someone they can be comforted by than someone who makes them think, or someone who has every chance of calling their side out once in a while.  We see how activists on both sides cannibalize moderates (see Arlen Specter).  Like it or not, the country is in a permanent tug of war between its extremes, and this has been proven by the fact that Obama, the Foreign Policy and Civil Rights Centrist who continues to reach out to Republicans on every issue, gets absolutely no support or credit for being a centrist.  They think he is the absolute devil of extreme Liberalism.  Where is there room for an Independent party who falls midway between Obama and ultra-rabid Conservatism?  It sounds like Lindsey Graham/Mike Huckabee territory.  Some "independents" they are.
 

by Milltycoon on 05/22/2009 05:40:19 AM EST

I love Jesse Ventura's style and that he's an independent thinker but he's a loose cannon and acts or speaks without considering of the consequences. That will get you in deep doo doo in a hot minute especially in politics and, IMHO, that's as it should be.

My take on your stats on Ind v Dem v R comes down to the idea that no one "harshs" on Indendents while minute by minute Dems weakly make points against Rs and Rs hurl nukes on Dems. So, of course, Inds come thru without a mark on them and they grow in numbers.

Independents stand on the sidelines and yell at everyone but THEY'RE NOT IN THE GAME. Sure there are some independent congressmen but they're a microscopic minority.

I know this is going to sound like yesterday's warmed over Chinese food but until we get a new voting system that allow multiple parties, it's pointless to not work from inside one of the two parties. IMHO.

God knows I don't love the Dems but at least they're trying (mostly very ineffectively).

by toosinbeymen on 05/22/2009 07:43:29 AM EST

I declare Obama a failure and a supporter of torture because in a political speech he doesn't use belligerent enough language

 

Calm down you fucking fanatics. Obama's the Commander in Chief, not the Tar-and-Featherer in Chief

by Perry on 05/22/2009 11:58:17 AM EST

I am free to chose candidates from any political party.  I don't want to be affiliated with a party, so I will not join the Independent Party or any other.  As it stands now, I do pick usually from the Dem party, because they usually have the most viable candidate closest to my political leaning.  The closest thing to an Independent Party here in WA is the Progressive Party of WA State.  

The Progressive Party is built on three major principles:

   1. The People should run the government-not big money.
   2. Business should not be allowed to do harm.
   3. If no one else will help the poor, the government should.

These ideals have been part of our party since 1912, and all other parts of our platform stem from them.

"This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in." Theodore Roosevelt Chicago, IL, June 17, 1912
Progressive Party of Washington
Join us at our next meeting!

Our next Meet and Greet will take place at the Rusty Pelican Restaurant, at 1924 N. 45th St. in Wallingford (a Seattle Neighborhood) on the last Friday of the month at 7:00PM (except December). We need your help, your ideas, and your energy!

by gatekeeper50 on 05/22/2009 01:31:18 PM EST

He's just more liberal than everyone else. He takes the democrat stance, and makes it a little more extreme. Like with gun control or drug legalization.

by nmaks on 05/22/2009 03:12:18 PM EST

"Life isn't just black and white, it's also many shades of grey", that's very true. But right now, from my perspective, the Democrats represent that grey. If any third party is needed, it's a party LEFT of the Democrats, not something between the GOP and the Dems, and not so-called moderates of both parties.

The Democrats would still mostly be placed on the center/right of the European political spectrum, and there's no significant party to the left of them in America. If Cenk ran for office (which I don't think he should do), he'd be to the left of 95% of all Democratic officials. That would be awesome, but I don't think he'd have a good chance of getting elected. And if he did, we'd lose TYT.

by OldGerman on 05/22/2009 03:14:02 PM EST

He has said sooo many compromising things on the show and all of it on record. I'm thinking the boardwalk blower etc. There is no way he whould make it if things got serious and he whould start being scutinized.

by Maqboub on 05/22/2009 05:25:42 PM EST

but Cenk was born in turkey.  In order to run for president, you have to have been born in the United States.

by birdboy1 on 05/22/2009 08:19:50 PM EST

Most of the comments seem to be stressing the fact that there needs to be another option, the points that democrats are too far to the center or center right, go out of their way to appease the right wing in order to appear balanced, the voting system pushes out all but 2 parties, that Jessie Ventura is more liberal than liberal. 

When I said that it's time to make a move and wedge independents into the political spectrum, I didn't mean ideologically between the left and the right.  If you think that Ventura is to the left of the left wing, then that's probably true, but he can be a true liberal, he can have a real progressive voice, because he doesn't have to suck up to either major party, because he's a real independent.  He doesn't have to fall in line with the democratic agenda of reaching out to the ultra right wing conservatism or answer to lobbyists for that matter.

More people in the US identify themselves as independents than as democrats or republicans.  It's supposed to be a representational democracy, so where's the representation?&nb sp; We need new voices and new ideas to influence the conversation, because the same tired old games aren't working and never will.  I'm not saying it's time for another major party to enter the playing field, but there are lots of third parties out there with lots of members and no voice on a national level and now is the time for them to step up their game, get some media time and start winning more elections.  The republicans are at record low numbers and vulnerable.  And the democrats despite controlling the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives, are just being, well, democrats. 

The election of Barack Obama showed us that a national campaign powered by people not corporate sponsors can be successful.  Independents need to wake up smell what Howard Dean cooked up, it's breakfast time bitch!

Check out MY SHOP and THIS VIDEO

by guttermutt on 05/22/2009 08:24:55 PM EST

by kurd55 on 05/23/2009 12:10:18 AM EST