06/08/2009 02:17:50 PM EST

Legalizing of Prostitution

posted by snoewchen

Whenever the topic of prostitution is discussed during the show, Cenk and Ana suggests that it would be a good idea to legalize it. In germany, prostitution was legalized by the end of 2001 and there was no big discussion of that topic in any mainstream media since then. Nevertheless from time to time there are very interesting articles in a german feminist magazine (EMMA) about the drawbacks of that legislation. First of all, the possibilities of the police to fight against trafficking in women is much more restricted now. The reason for that is because the police has to have a legal cause in order to perform a house search. That is also true in the case of a brothel. Before 2001 the police could perform a house search in brothels just because of the fact that prostitution was illegal. This possibility is gone now.
Another interesting question is if jobless woman should be placed in brothels by official job centers - well, it is a legal job! I think (and hope) this is a theoretical question but anyone should see that obviously there is no easy answer if the legalization of prostitution is a good idea or not. And why do I think only of women? There is also a market for nice boys and their butts.

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Legalizing of Prostitution | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
Prostitution Should Definitely Be Legal (3.00 / 2)

I don't believe the government has any right whatsoever to interfere in such a basic private agreement as a women agreeing to have sex for money.  Some reasonable regulations for the sake of public safety make sense, but beyond that, I vote for freedom, baby.  Marriage is often just a complicated legalized prostitution arrangement anyway.  Yes, trafficking is a problem, but if the possibility of criminal activity being a problem was reason enough to ban an industry, nothing would be legal.

by mdavidboyd on 06/08/2009 02:34:29 PM EST

Good point (none / 0)

Your last point is really good!

by snoewchen on 06/08/2009 03:01:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Good point (none / 0)

Your last point is really good!

by snoewchen on 06/08/2009 02:43:47 PM EST

Its not so black and white for me (none / 0)
While I understand and appreciate the arguments for legalizing prostitution and I don't think its a good idea to criminalize consenting adults who make a business arrangement for sex, there are some serious drawbacks to legalizing it that is often overlooked by lefties.

The act of legalizing it wont "clean up streets" or make it safer for anyone, there will still be street walkers legal or not. The criminal activity pimps and hoes bring is very real too and like it or not cops would be less able to discourage such activities. Abuse and trafficking women are also a serious issue that shouldn't be under estimated. Time and time again we see young girls from all around the world turned into sex slaves, some are willing most are not, but again the tools cops use to bust such organizations who abuse these girls is prostitution being illegal.

by Smokin on 06/08/2009 06:28:16 PM EST

I think it should be legal (none / 1)
It should be legal, but it should be strictly monitored for the health concerns. If brothels were up and running legally, who would go to the girl on the corner?

Trafficing is a problem, but it is a separate problem that needs its own attention. The act of one adult paying another adult for sex is really not a crime.

by gotchange on 06/08/2009 08:29:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Extend that thought out (none / 0)
If paying for sex is not a crime, then there is no good reason to make it illegal right?!.......

Well lets extend this rational to other laws,..... here in Los Angeles, its illegal to be in the public park when it closes at night(curfew), these ordinances were put in place to help curb a drug problem and gang violence in the area, but if its not really a crime to walk late at night in a park it should be legal right?

Its not really a crime to not wear a helmet while riding a motercycle, so there shouldn't be a law requiring a helmet right?

Its not really a crime if a bunch of people got married to one guy if they are all consenting, so it should be legal right?

Its not really a crime to gamble, so it should be legal everywhere right?

Its not really a crime to copy music or videos and distribute it without permission, so it shouldn't be illegal right?

Point is there are thousands of laws that you can apply the same logic to, but the reality is creating and dropping laws has a cause and effect that should be appreciated. Trafficking slaves to work in prostitution is not a seperate issue in my book.

  Copyright laws are not created and enforced because the act of copying is wrong or should be stopped, its to promote the arts and sciences by granting limited rights to copyright holders.
   Parole restrictions are placed not because its "wrong to hang out with other gang member" or "wrong to drink" or "wrong to leave your house", but to accomplish a larger goal the benefits society and parolees.
   Immigration laws don't exist because "its wrong to travel from point A-B and live here" its to control the amount of people who migrate here and to ensure that our resources are not spread too thin as a result of open borders

"It should be legal, but it should be strictly monitored for the health concerns. If brothels were up and running legally, who would go to the girl on the corner?"

Brothels are legal in Nevada and street walking is not. Guess what, street walkers are still thriving and in business.

by Smokin on 06/09/2009 12:56:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'll try and take these one by one here (none / 0)
Being in a public park after hours should be illegal for the same reason it is illegal to be on someone else's property when you haven't been invited. Its trespassing which very much is a crime.

Wearing a helmet or a seatbelt is to prevent people from almost certain death in the event there is a crash. Its a matter of life or death. These things might be legally required, but they are not crimes. They are traffic violations.

If if a bunch of people want to get married to one person I really couldn't care less. Is it a crime? Yes. Is it weird? Yes. Do I care? No. Should we ban married couples from threesomes too? I would think not. 

Gambling should be legal. This is another stupid law. I'm a live and let live type of guy. If people want to blow their savings on a card game I say, let them.

Copyright laws don't apply here because there is a victim. If I start selling bootlegged movies, I'm taking money away from the people that made that movie. If an adult pays another adult for sex, there is not victim.

Human trafficing is itself a very serious crime. It need not be attached to something else to make it seem bad. It already is bad.

Here is the difference between what you and I are talking about:

An adult should be allowed to make a living having sex with other adults-My position.

Prostitution is a crime because people are forced to have sex-Your position.

The difference-You are concerns are not about prositution. Your concerns are about forced prostitution aka rape.


If we are going to start banning things because of the ugly side effects then we have to ban all the foods that can lead to diabetes. We have to ban guns because people don't know how to handle them. We have to ban religion because no belief is worth killing for. And we have to ban money because I think we have lost count of the number of lives that have been ruined by the greed of others.

by gotchange on 06/09/2009 01:43:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No matter how you slice it, it more complicated (none / 0)
No, my position isn't that its a crime because "people are forced to have sex". Its a crime because its against the law. Cops then enforce these laws to stop it or prevent other more serious crimes.
"If if a bunch of people want to get married to one person I really couldn't care less"
So how exactly should civil unions be designed and created to accommodate polygamy?

"being in a public park after hours should be illegal"
We pay for our parks through our tax dollars, so it should be illegal to live in our homes after hours too?
"Wearing a helmet or a seatbelt is to prevent people from almost certain death"
Prostitution also creates a very real health hazard. STDs, drugs, and violence that accompanies street walking is very real. why should our society turn our eye to this health threat and not others?
"Gambling should be legal.This is another stupid law."
Gambling can be a real addiction and problem, Im also no expert on the effects of gambling on society, but I find it curious that I could not find any country or state where its allowed. Its usually only allowed in very local areas.
"Copyright laws don't apply here because there is a victim."
People who have their work "copied" are not "victims". The idea that intellectual property exists is very very new. Throughout history nobody "owned" what they thoughts up or imagined, like stories or paintings or plays. It was only until we dreamed up these laws and companies started to promote the idea that we could own ideas did copyrights and copyright laws start to get formulated. You are only assuming that copyrights exist to react to a "theft" which would be completely inaccurate.

Now your straw man argument comparing "my position" to yours should be discarded completely, its just wrong. If you havn't figured it out, my position is that these questions and issue of prostitution is more complicated than most want to admit, its that simple. I'm not advocating banning anything or endorsing any of these laws or denouncing them either, just saying most of the talk and rhetoric I've been seeing is seriously naive.

by Smokin on 06/09/2009 04:17:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Legalize it (none / 0)
I don't know how we would accomodate polygamy, but again I don't care.

Trespassing is trespassing. If you are on someone else's property when you are not supposed to be, that's trespassing. As you would say, "its that simple."

I am aware of the health concerns. If you read my first post on this, I said there should be strict monitoring of the health issues. If we were to legalize this, it would have to be contained to places that have been approved by the city they are in. The idea there is to keep prostitution off the streets. Bartering sex for drugs is not a prostitution issue. It is a drug addiction issue. I don't have an answer for that, but its not what we are talking about here.

Gambling is an addiction, but so are cigarettes and those aren't illegal. Just because its an addiction, does not mean it needs to illegal. An addiction is only as dangerous as the addict lets it become in my opinion. I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day for four years. The day I got serious about it, I was able to quit. I have friends and family who have quit heroine, cocaine, pills, you name it. I live in NJ where gambling is only legal in Atlantic City and the only reason its not legal everywhere is because Trump and the other casino owners throw a lot of money at the politicians to keep it that way.

If I just made a movie that was going to be a huge success, but I wasn't making the money on it that I should because people were buying bootlegged copies, I would be a victim. That's money out of my pocket that I use to support my family.

I honestly thought that was your position. Now its clear that you don't really have a position and were simply looking to have an argument someone. Glad I could help.

by gotchange on 06/09/2009 06:47:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
funny (none / 0)
You confuse "discussion" with arguing. I assume whats happening is you are projecting your intent.

btw, a public park belongs to the public, how is it trespassing to use your own park? ;)

You have no idea what copyrights are for, thats the only reason why you equate it with "stealing", this is not an opinion, its a fact.

by Smokin on 06/09/2009 06:59:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Please don't put words in my mouth (none / 0)
Okay, so if its public we can do whatever we want to it? Does that mean I can burn down the White House since it belongs to me?

If somebody sells something that does not belong to them what is that exactly? Are you saying that's not wrong? 

by gotchange on 06/09/2009 07:15:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dont worry about it (none / 0)
You seem to think its a good law to have no trespassing inn public parks at night because its trespassing and that's good enough for you.

by Smokin on 06/09/2009 07:28:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
lol (none / 0)
Whatever you say

by gotchange on 06/09/2009 07:31:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
of course, feminazis will complain (none / 1)

first, fatty teutonic feminazis will always complain about prostitution since the easy availability of whores means that there is more of an incentive and opportunity for their husbands/boyfriends (even girlfriends) to fuck someone good-looking and skilled rather than put up with a hairy, sweaty, nagging, cow.

 

second, leave it to the nazis the bemoan the fact that their former opportunity to enter into a residence/workplace with no probable cause is now taken away. and the fisa-maniacs in this country want the u.s. to emulate western european "democracies"!!

 

third, if a woman with no other marketable job skills decides to go on welfare, the government is free to send her to a brothel to "fuck-for-food". a job is a job is a job, and if a bitch decides to leech off society, she had better provide something back.

 

fourth and last,  prostitution is about women. boy butt buggers don't need and have never needed brothels---they simply become catholic. the pope will give them the vienna boys choir recruit of their choice as part of the baptism.

by neo on 06/08/2009 10:02:08 PM EST

stay classy chief (none / 0)
sometimes less can be more

by funkyspoon on 06/08/2009 11:29:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
yup (none / 1)
women should be allowed to have sex with who they want and for whatever reason they want

by Euphorik on 06/08/2009 11:31:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
vienna chorus (none / 0)
The main reason why german feminists complain about prostitution is because most of the prostitutes did not choose that job as a dream job and therefore it would be a good idea to look into the various reasons why women choose that job and may be address the underlying problems and try to improve something.

Another point is that as a "normal" women you could feel degraded if it is legal to use a women as an object. In most cases a whore is treated like an object I guess.

Should we legalize slavery if there are some people willing to be slaves?

If something is illegal does not mean that everybody or someone breaking this law sits in jail. I am pretty sure every country has some laws that are not enforced rigidly. Prostitution falls in that category (in europe).

I was a little bit surprised, when I read yesterday, that prostitution is legal in Austria (I live in Austria, Vienna (not a member of the famous chorus)) too. Nevertheless there was a ruling of the Supreme Court in 1989 that prostitution is an immoral contract and therefore a whore cannot bring it to trial if she does not get paid by a customer (Now I know why you have to pay first normally).

The point is that there are gray shaded categories of life where neither black nor white are valid answers. Why not stick with prohibition and turn a blind eye to it?

by snoewchen on 06/09/2009 12:44:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Are you really that fat? (none / 0)
You have to admit you left yourself open for that one. ;)

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 06/09/2009 12:46:48 AM EST

Chain reaction zing (3.00 / 1)
Forget the fat. Is he really that rich?

by OneHitKill on 06/09/2009 10:28:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
saftey (none / 0)
My main concern is the safety of these women who choose to prostitute their bodies. Prostitution is bound to happen whether or not it is deemed legal by the government. However, if it is legal, the government can regulate it and make sure that these women don't get mistreated by pimps and clients. It would also help as far as screening for sexually transmitted diseases.

One thing I learned about myself (and I'm strictly talking about  myself) is that I don't care what people do as long as they are not harming others. If an adult wants to exploit her body in a quest for money, then she should have the right to. It's none of my business....just like gay marriage is none of my business. Does prostitution make me feel uncomfortable? Yes. I wouldn't like knowing that there is a brothel a few miles away from my house. But my perception of ethics shouldn't be a standard to which other people live by.

by AnaKasparian on 06/09/2009 05:59:16 PM EST

The facts? (none / 0)
I recall you say that "if you look at the facts, then the usual arguments to keep prostitution illegal fails"(paraphrased). I was just curious,  what facts you looked at changed your mind? Id be interested in checking out any info that supprts legalizing prostitution.

by Smokin on 06/09/2009 07:02:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sure (none / 0)
I can refer to a couple of scholarly journals that have covered this topic with credible research. Look up the following:

The Fine Art of Regulated Tolerance: Prostitution in Amsterdam by Chrisje Brants. Her article was published in the Journal of Law and Society.

Markets in Women's Sexual Labor by Debra Satz. Her article was published in the "Ethics" journal.

You can also read more about legalizing prostitution here: http://www.fff.org/freedom/ 1293e.asp

by AnaKasparian on 06/09/2009 08:20:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Leagalize?.. of course ! (none / 0)
There are very few arguments against leagalizing it, and they are weak.

Why it should be legalized:

  1. Brothels would be subject to regular inspections and would need to meet certain standards to maintain their licence.

  2. Sex workers would need to be licenced and pass regular health examinations.

  3. There would be less undeclared money to fund criminal activities.

  4. Workers will be in a much safer, cleaner enviroment

  5. The location of prostitution would be better controlled and more appropriate. (Such and bars and clubs are)

  6. The industry would pay taxes , and despite it being illegal, its a shitload of money.

So, if anyone thinks keeping it illegal will stop it then please hold your breath for that.
It's here to stay.

Legalizing gives society the chance to ensure sex workers are clean, healty, disease free, safe, well treated,do not contribute to organized crime, and help free up the choking legal system and overworked cops who have better things to do.

by Maverick on 06/09/2009 10:11:54 PM EST

Legalizing of Prostitution | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
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