08/01/2009 05:34:04 PM EST

Please Help Young Turks Obtain a Computer

posted by yturks

Hello Young Turks Viewers/Fans/Listeners/Supporters:

Videos posted on our YouTube channel provide a major and essential source of revenue to keep TYT operations going.  Also, it's quite possible that the next breakout online show will be discovered from YouTube.  So we want to improve the quality of the videos we post.  

Currently, the biggest obstacle to improving the quality of our clips is relatively low computer processing power to render the large volume of content we generate.  To fix this, we are going to obtain some new, powerful PCs. Some research we have done indicates that PCs with Intel Core i7 processors are much faster in rendering high quality video (Core i7 920, 940 or 965).  Since we recognize, are thankful for, and take pride in the fact that TYT exists FOR and BECAUSE OF a supportive community, we'd like to ask the TYT audience if anybody can help us obtain a computer with these specifications, or other specifications that would be equally or more powerful in rendering video.   You never know if somebody out there has access to spare computers, or a means to obtain one below market cost.

If you can help us obtain a new PC with the important objective of improving the quality of our YouTube videos, please contact us by email at: producer@theyoungturks.com.  We will be eternally grateful if you can help us take this important step in positioning the Young Turks for the next big step.

Another option is to make a donation dedicated to the new computers, which you CAN DO AT THIS LINK.

Thank you for your support.

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Please Help Young Turks Obtain a Computer | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 hidden)
My Hummble Opinion (3.67 / 3)
Never buy the best cpu on the market, its just not worth it. Tech addicts usually disagree emphatically, but lets face it, there is no reasoning with tech addicts. These people grind up video cards and free base em.

For the price of 1 high end CPU that cuts processing time a fraction, you can get 5 cpus.

How to build a render farm (I know render farms are a great option for 3d, I image its the same with video editing)

Get fast results and save money

Im looking to upgrade myself, and the AMD phenom 2 for under $200 is a great option for me. It may take a few seconds longer to process "whatever" but the extra few seconds arnt worth the extra cost. Also keep in mind, (Ive seen people do this alot) many time people spend a fortune on cpus and neglect the memory and motherboard and other hardware. If you create a weak link, the lil extra cpu power wont show. If I buy last years "best-cutting edge stuff", I get a bitching system at a fraction of the cost.

by Smokin on 07/21/2009 11:09:19 PM EST

Ditto (none / 0)
The fastest processor is not always worth the cost.  The same results can often be obtained for less expense, even if the solution is a bit more complicated.

by EveningStarNM on 07/22/2009 07:39:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Dito to building your own (none / 0)
I did some number crunching that I thought I would share.

An i7 965 would = 15,608.00 (cinibench score representing CPU power)
For the same cost of the i7, you can get 5 AMD Phenoms_2x4 940(over clocked) which would = 61,800 (Cinibench score)

Thats 4 times more processing power than the i7 at the same cost. Granted I havnt factored in the other parts required for a render farm, but still should come close to what one would spend for parts to build a high end workstation.

by Smokin on 07/22/2009 10:14:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
965? (none / 0)
The I7 920 is the obvious choice here, it had huge overclocking headroom and paired with an excellent $40 air cooler it can be overclocked to 4.0 gz+. It's the exact same processor as the I7 965, it's just factory clocked lower. And is 1/3 the cost.  

On the other hand the Phenom II 940 is killer at the price and Newegg has some fantastic combo deals on it right now. Pair it with a 275 GTX (for the CUDA app) and $800 will buy a killer video conversion/processing system.

 

by spigzone on 07/23/2009 10:49:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Build Your Own (none / 0)

It's fairly easy to build your own computer by buying the components and assembling them yourself.  You can't save money this way on a low end computer, but you can with the PC you're for.

 There are sites that can help you pick out the components like this one:
 http://www.sharkyextreme.co m/guides/MHGSBG/article.php /3806051

 

 

by washizu on 07/22/2009 06:45:10 AM EST

YES you can has i7 (none / 0)
One of the key features that makes the i7 better than other processors you might find is an integrated memory controller that supports three channels or DDR3 memory.  The i7 is made for workstation computers, and that memory usage will be important to video editing.

You probably want to ask someone else about specific video cards because my knowledge is more on the personal use side, and I know that there are also workstation GPUs on the market.

Lastly, if you're looking to save some money, you probably want to build this yourself/have a supporter build it.  Name brand computers can sometimes be convenient, but if cost is an issue, nothing beats the barebone prices of raw components.

by superjawes on 07/22/2009 10:29:31 AM EST

Most of us (none / 0)
In the TYT audience are tech saavy and I would guess half of us can build our own computers.  I myself build my own rig and its essentially identical to a computer that would cost 4 grand pre built which I built the rig for only 1200 USD.  I also suggest building a comp with a render farm with AMD Phentoms 2's Smoking is exactly right for the same cost you can build your own render farm which will give you 3-4 times more power than the i7.

by Suiseiseki on 07/22/2009 11:00:12 AM EST

Shot you and Cenk an email (none / 0)
Look out for it.

by jarett on 07/22/2009 12:48:43 PM EST

Alternate methods (none / 0)

    You can much more bang for your buck using specialised chips for handling video than a high end general purpose CPU.  This might be in a better camera, a better video card, or an external encoder device.

   You can get an external encoder that plugs into usb and uses specialized chips to encode the data.  http://www.cwol.com/ipod-ac cessories/instant-video-to- go-ads.htm

    Also, depending on the software you use (like the latest Adobe products), getting a high end video card for $200 or $300 will allow it to use the graphics chips to speed up encoding a lot. 

   Also, for any encoding, it will be faster if your source file is on a different physical disk than the destination drive.  If you have to, output to a fast USB drive, but the best method is one SATA drive to another.

   Another thing to look at is to get a camera that produces the video type you want in the first place.  You can often get a camera that has analog RCA or SVHS out as well as storing data internally.  You could use the RCA for live streaming while storing the video internally in your desired h.264 format. 

   It would help if you told people as much as possible about the chain of formats that you currently use.  What format does the camera capture initially?  What format or method is used for live streaming?  What software do you use for video conversion? Do you need to make files with 2 or 3 different formats?

  You should also try to make this a computer that never goes on the internet so you can turn off anti-virus programs that slow everything else down. Try getting a KVM (keyboard video mouse) switch so that one person can control this computer (off the internet) and their main computer (on the internet) with the same monitor and keyboard and mouse.  Also, get rid of as many background programs like Real on the encoding computer.

   Also - I notice you sometimes line up a youtube clip and it isn't available any more.  You can download youtube clips using firefox and the addon "DownloadHelper" and play it with the free VLC media player (get VLC free at download.com, which is owned by the CBS network, so it is safe)

 

by moribund on 07/22/2009 10:44:24 PM EST

Spot on. Need more info TYT (none / 0)
I agree with moribund and several others above.  If you want the TYT community to help out with suggestions, we need more info.  We want you to succeed, but that involves making the right purchase choices with limited funds.

Are you converting a single large video and need it done fast, or converting many videos a day and can't get through them all quick enough?  What software are you using, and encoding/transcoding to what formats?

The Core i7's are really fast chips, but you do pay a premium.  For less you can get quad-core Core 2s, AMDs, etc.  You need to know if your software utilizes multiple cores/threads when encoding, is it optimized for SSE, etc. (otherwise you are paying more for a chip that isn't fully utilized anyways) Some software is now utilizing the graphics cards to speed up encode, but with limitations (http://www.computerpoweruse r.com/editorial/article.asp ?article=articles%2farchive %2fc0909%2f40c09%2f40c09.as p&guid=72B633282C374436 823A4F40BD3D300B)

Before you blow limited funds on one quick machine, make sure you aren't better off buying 2 or more machines for the same price and getting more throughput during the day, etc.

by freitag on 07/23/2009 10:44:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree (none / 0)
I agree with the previous comments. I have a PhD in computer science and I have a lot of experience with designing computers for performance. The latest processors provide a small increase in performance for a large increase in cost. My assessment of what you do (small dimension youtube clips, etc) leads me to believe that you don't need the absolute top of the line. Also, you should be very focused on the amount of RAM on the system, since video files can be large. Too little RAM can be a huge bottleneck.

Why don't you let us know exactly what you need the system for, and what other system components you are considering (e.g. DVD-R and HD sizes)? We can have a discussion about what configuration you really need given your intended uses. Then, we can have a discussion about how to get that system the most cheaply.

Also, I'm interested in the specifications of the current computer that you use to do these tasks and your specific complaints about the performance of that machine. For example, if the complaint is time of completion, let us know how long it takes to complete a typical example task.

by jaredfox on 07/23/2009 01:31:20 PM EST

re (none / 0)

If you're looking at rendering video faster and doing graphical stuff you are going to be best off with one of these:

http://www.apple.com/macpro /

The unix based OS is going to provide a much more stable platform for which to render your videos on.  

by katz on 07/23/2009 09:38:40 PM EST

MACs (none / 0)
Short of CUDA encoding (which is in its infancy and AFAIK its still limited, some research on this is a great idea)

MACs have always been up to 3x faster in video processing than PCs

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passionate intensity."Yeats

by kkdragonlord on 06/11/2010 05:50:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"new powerful PCs" (none / 0)
A. How many PC's are you looking at buying?
B. What general price points are you looking at?

by spigzone on 07/23/2009 10:29:15 PM EST

Just what the doctor ordered. (none / 0)
http://www.elitebastards.co m/cms/index.php?option=com_ content&task=view&i d=737&Itemid=29

"GPU video transcoding image quality - NVIDIA CUDA versus AMD Stream"

This just out article is very current and PRECISELY applicable to what you are trying to do and will point you in the right direction.

by spigzone on 07/23/2009 11:32:26 PM EST

Downloading vs Streaming You Tube Videos (none / 0)

Please excuse me if you already know this, but you can download you tube videos instead of streaming them (one day I saw it buffering so that's why I think you stream them).  Here is the link to a You Tube downloader, which you can download the High Quality or High Definition versions of the videos.  Then you can instantly convert them into a video format that you can play with any video player.  We have a neighborhood movie night and I used this progam to download movie trailers and play them, which works fine an a regular old laptop.  http://download.cnet.com/Ge tGo-Download-Manager/3000-2 071_4-10277023.html

 

There are tons of you tube download programs if you don't like this one, just google it.

by dodenver2 on 07/24/2009 11:32:07 AM EST

Thoughts from someone who's seen their computers (none / 0)

Hey everyone...  I just wanted to give you some more information on the TYT computer situation, since I've actually been to the studio and seen how it's all set up.

They are *not* techies.  The idea of setting up a render farm is completely out of the realm of possibility. 

a. there is no network connecting the computers, and

b. there is no expertise in keeping something like that running.  and it would be expensive to have that expertise around.

They use Sony Vegas to process video, and right now their fastest machine for processing video is a LAPTOP.  I looked up some benchmarks for them online, on what processors handle Sony Vegas rendering best, and came up with this article:

http://www.legitreviews.com /article/824/6/

Which shows that any of the Intel core 920,940,945 type processors will render Vegas much much faster.  Of all the things TYT can do for under $1500, this will have a huge impact on the quality and number of clips they can put out.

If someone wants to build this computer for cheaper, raise your hand.

by jgilliam on 07/25/2009 11:13:20 AM EST

Not buying it (none / 0)
There was a time when EVERYONE left building computers to the nerds because they felt it was out of the realm of their abilities.

The truth is though, that everyone who attempts to build their own computer from parts understand that the process is not at all difficult once its all said and done. Anyone at TYT can build a computer or even a render farm if they only try. If you can follow a set of instructions from ikea to build a shelf or some furniture, then you are way over qualified to build a computer or even render nodes.


http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=41sq0RnPjeQ

Here is an example of how to install the cpu and ram to a mother board which is about 20% of what it means to build a computer. Steps like installing a video card or mounting the board into the case or mounting the power supply into the case is equally simple.

The hardest part is picking the right components, but the advantage is a much much better performance than purchasing something off the shelf at someplace like a best buy, and you have alot more options in the future for upgrading since you can usually reuse parts. Im sure there are many out there who would volunteer to both build the computer or more importantly create a shopping list for you so you get all the right parts for your budget.

As for keeping it running, its no more difficult that running a single computer.

by Smokin on 07/25/2009 01:42:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks! (none / 0)
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and get some right there.

by Article Submission on 07/04/2010 07:25:42 AM EST

Please Help Young Turks Obtain a Computer | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 hidden)
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