Why you can't win with RWnuts

An older, staunchly Republican friend of mine has the habit of forwarding RWnut spam to everyone on his mailing list. Recently he sent me this winner from the NY Times.

No Naval Swords for U.S.N.A. Graduation this year - Threat to the Dear Leader Inside the Beltway- Washington Times

http://washingtontimes.com/ news/2009/may/21/inside-the -beltway-97423759/

Of course a quick check at Snopes.com revealed the truth =  the US Naval Academy has banned swords at graduation since at least 9/11.

http://www.snopes.com/polit ics/military/swords.asp

My friend's response?

"I understand Snopes is a liberal couple who I don't trust. Even if its not true though, obuma is still a weak cowardly illegal immigrant bent on destroying America."

In other words, they are "liberal" so even though they debunk an overt lie, he refuses to accept reality?

Not even addressing the craziness about Obama being an "illegal immigrant".

How can/should you reason with people like this?

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It depends on which kind of right-winger you're talking about.  There are those whose sole motivation is personal greed, selfishness, and self-centeredness.  Then there are those, like your friends, who are crippled by fear.

The greedy ones are easy:  just show them how they can make tons of money, even if what they make it doing turns out to be good for the country.

The people who live in fear are the most difficult to deal with.  Their positions are not based on logic, although they'll deny that forever.  Likewise, their ideas are not dependent upon facts, although they'll deny that, too.

These people live with a host of fears that do not respond to reason or facts.  Their fears cannot be eased.  Even when the actions they take make life more dangerous, you cannot sway them from their knee-jerk reactions.  For them, life is a constant choice between fight or flight even in trivial matters, and they always make the wrong choice, anyway.

We'll need several generations of an improved education system that reverses the policies it has today and instead teaches students not merely rote skills and prejudicial attitudes, but how to observe, how to learn, how to think.  And that will happen only after we remove religious influences from school boards and curriculums.

It's going to take a while, but we've got to keep this problem, like all others, in perspective:  Things are a lot better now than they were a hundred years ago.  A hundred years ago, things were a lot better than they were a century before that.

In a hundred years, things will be even better.  It's just that you and I won't be around to see it.

Let's just deal with the problem one step at a time.  The first thing we can do is to kick Obama's ass for following Hoover's policies of pouring money into the banks rather than Roosevelt's policies of investing in infrastructure and jobs.  Then maybe we can pay for a better educational system.

by EveningStarNM on 07/04/2009 11:01:00 PM EST

What influences and what are they doing? I'd love to hear.

by nashvi11e on 07/05/2009 05:37:14 PM EST

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You must live in an isolated area and not have access to much outside information.  Oh!  Oops!  You have the internet, so that can't be it.

Hmmm...

Well, perhaps you've been so distracted by your own research into other areas that you've never encountered these controversies before.  It's either that, or you simply haven't been paying attention, or you don't want to pay attention, or you want an argument, or you're lying that you don't already know about these controversies, because damned near everyone else in this country knows how religious people are trying to inject their beliefs into the teaching of evolution and sex education.  I had thought that their dishonest claims to be employing science in their promotion of creation theory -- oops!  Sorry.  I mean "intelligent design" -- and abstinance-only education were well-known.

Just to name two things, of course, as there are many other ways that religious people try to inject their beliefs into the public school system.

Apparently, however, you are completely ignorant about what's happening in our public schools.  I hope that I've been able to shed some light on what must seem to you to be very well-kept secrets.

by EveningStarNM on 07/05/2009 06:37:32 PM EST

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Video: Texas schoolboard votes on age of the universe

So they basically voted to say that the universe is NOT expanding, contrary to the scientific consensus.

Keep in mind the Texas Board Of Education recently voted (overwhelmingly) in favor of changing references to evolution in textbooks. It was injecting doubt with regard to evolution. They also voted to remove references to contraception and sexuality in textbooks back in 2004. Why should anyone not living in Texas care?

Apparently the second largest textbook manufacturer is based out of the state, so most textbooks conform to Texas standards. That means pseudo-science (fueled by religion) is coming to a classroom near you.

by Tom Hanc on 07/05/2009 06:39:06 PM EST

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I don't get it. How can Texas display that kind of pigheadedness? Doesn't any of NASA's brain power rub off on the rest of the state?

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 10:33:04 AM EST

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Because again, they influence what ends up in textbooks more than any other state. Very scary.

by Tom Hanc on 07/06/2009 11:26:35 AM EST

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they are nationalistic. There is a BIG difference, Patriots love their counrty, but are not blind to its faults and failures. Cheerleading while we invaded a country that was zero threat to us, was not Patriotic, it was stupid. The true Patriots in the country knew it then and know it now.

Hitler gained power with the exact same ideas, WE are the master race, WE are better than (insert the race, religion, or nation you wish to villify/attack/propagandise against here). Hi tler had Jews, the right wing has Muslims.

And who said the left was anti-military, oh wait thats right, or "the right" I should say. I have nothing against the military, I just don't think we should use it as our primary foreign policy instrument. Obama has done a fantastic job of reversing that bush policy with pretty great results. I'm glad we have sent more troops to Afghanistan, bush never should have pulled them out for the illigitamate Iraq invasion, the country wouldn't be the mess it is now. 

None of this matters to the wing-nuts though, they will continue to live inside their paraniod fantasies regardless of reality.

by The IDGE on 07/06/2009 12:57:31 PM EST

Your first paragraph reminded me of something I read in one of Al Franken's books that I thought was spot on.   He said that many conservatives seem to love their country in the way that a 5-year-old loves its mother.   They won't tolerate criticism of it (Don't call my mommy names!) and won't take into consideration or even care whether there is validity behind complaints against it.  

A better way to look at is with a more mature kind of love, where you want to see it learn and grow and improve, yet you try to prod it into abandoning destructive practices, to help it become a better, happier, healthier citizen of the world.

It's a bit of an over-generalization but there's a kernel of truth to it.

by bfaul on 07/06/2009 02:32:02 PM EST

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I have a RWnut as a business partner, i stopped arguing with him about a year ago, total waste of time.
Here is how political chat goes with these type of people:

Me. How about Palin biting the head off that live baby?

RWnut. She didnt, The Dems bite heads off babies all the time.

Me. I never heard about that

RWnut. Your friend Clinton bit heads off hundreds of babies, Palin didnt.

Me. I didnt hear about Clinton doing it , but i saw Palin do it live on cnn

RWnut. CNN is owned and run by Arabs, so is BBC

its about then i just say, oh ok, and talk about work.
You see it just doesnt matter if you are right, facts dont come into it, their politcal views are more about a pep talk to themselves, winning is not possible becase you are arguing against an attitude. Facts that dont agree with them are ignored.

by Maverick on 07/07/2009 06:37:26 AM EST

Tell your friend not to blame Obama for being an illegal immigrant. It's Walmart's fault for hiring him illegally and paying him less than minimum wage.

by OneHitKill on 07/04/2009 09:10:28 PM EST

Also, point out to your right wing, Ronald Reagan loving friends that Reagan was the original amnesty president. He kicked open the door to the millions of illegals who are "ruining the country".

Also point out to them that Ronald Reagan borrowed more money than all presidents before him COMBINED, from George Washington to Jimmy Carter. Save that for when they talk about Obama spending so much and how fiscally irresponsible Democrats are.

Oh, and don't let them get away with responding that he HAD to spend that money to beat the Soviets. Aside from the fact that communism had ruined them (leaving us to blow gently to knock down the paper tiger they had become), remind the dopes that we fought huge wars and got out a depression prior to Reagan, yet he STILL borrowed more than all presidents before him combined.

by Tom Hanc on 07/05/2009 03:24:33 PM EST

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It's nice that we have bright-eyed, hope-inspired optimists like you around who can believe that those people might respond to reason and logic.  You folks help to balance out the dreary, depressing, soul-draining, hope-crushing pessimism of cynics like me.

by EveningStarNM on 07/05/2009 06:12:48 PM EST

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I'm not saying that we can ever really convince that insane(ly stupid/misinformed) 10-20% of the population. The best we can hope to do is sometimes shut them up and inject the tiniest bit of doubt into their pea sized brains, even if they don't outwardly admit it.

If nothing else it's our job to keep their bullshit from being passively absorbed/repeated by the uninformed masses.

 

by Tom Hanc on 07/05/2009 06:35:26 PM EST

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The conservatives havent been faced with total defeat like this in years.

There is on reasoning with them. Because they dont use reason . Obama is an illegal immigrant? PUH LEASE  and it goes on and on.

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 07/04/2009 09:47:28 PM EST

hell right wing nuts i would take any day over left wing nuts, i.e bill ayers, rev. wright, world cant wait, code pink. I mean theyre all tottally insane!....at least with RW nuts youve got patriotism, and not  anti military, loathing from the hardcore leftist. Just saying here,  R W nuts have their dignity, and honor....its just arrogance they have a problem with.

semper fidelis

by doominator on 07/06/2009 04:15:11 AM EST

That's why everyone on the right loves the Nazis so much... they were mega-patriots!!!!! And very pro-military, downright warmongers... that's why they are in high regards even today... same goes for the Klan... very tidy folks... always had their cloaks bleached white...

by eborujion on 07/06/2009 12:14:17 PM EST

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at least with RW nuts youve got patriotism

Patriotism isn't really anything to brag about. A doorstop can be patriotic if you paint it the right colors.

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 10:36:48 AM EST

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I don't care who LBJdim is anymore. No answer to the question of his identity could surprise me. I stopped caring when I asked him to identify himself and he kept silent, effectively sending the message, "I won't tell you anything except that I'm a coward who disagrees with you."

That doesn't narrow it down very much, does it?

He doesn't post comments or start new threads. He's a zero contributor. He can give me low ratings as long as he wants. One of us will get eventually bored and give up. I wonder which of us that is?

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 09:03:09 PM EST

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Hmm... lemme think a minit... "cowards who disagree with OneHitKill and/or have a personal grudge against him...."

Yep. You're right.  That doesn't narrow down the list from whom we already would suspect.

And he contributes absolutely nothing other than ratings.  For me, that's what indicates he's a sock puppet.

But we do know one thing: at least one of your "hits" was a real doozy!

My congratulations!  :)

by EveningStarNM on 07/07/2009 02:56:09 AM EST

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Sorry about the small print, but you get the idea.

That's just the first 30. The list goes on and on.

This kid has issues.

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 09:23:10 PM EST

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Please be kidding?

Naw!  It can't be!  

Hmm.

Well, I have seen tiggerporn do some strange rating patterns -- all ones for one thread, all fives for another...

But LBJdim seems to have a grudge against OHK.  I just can't conceive that tiggerporn is...

Augh!  Say it ain't so, tig!

by EveningStarNM on 07/07/2009 02:45:09 AM EST

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Tigger and I are, to my knowledge, on good terms. I'm not ready to believe that anybody around here is two-faced enough to be outwardly friendly to me while at the same time building a passive-aggressive legacy like LBJdim is doing.

I'm also not quite ready to let go of the notion that LBJdim might be Neo. He and I don't exactly play well together a lot of the time.

by OneHitKill on 07/07/2009 11:04:24 AM EST

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LBJdim was KenTX?

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 07/07/2009 09:56:28 PM EST

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LBJdim could be anyo--

Wait!  It's you, isn't it!?

(Turn the light in his eyes, fellas.  We're gonna grill 'im!)

by EveningStarNM on 07/08/2009 07:14:29 AM EST

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I dunno.  neo isn't very sophisticated, but I do believe he might be trying to earn some respect rather than simply demand it.

And look at these two comments: neo, and then doominator's reply.

http://www.theyoungturks.co m/comments/2009/7/7/18338/1 2171/7#7

by EveningStarNM on 07/08/2009 07:20:24 AM EST

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Good on him. I hope the trend continues.

by OneHitKill on 07/08/2009 09:45:16 PM EST

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Okay, THAT would surprise me.

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 11:18:21 PM EST

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That and things like facts that disagree with what they believe.

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 07/06/2009 09:16:46 PM EST

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A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 07/08/2009 12:09:20 PM EST

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