07/05/2009 06:12:14 PM EST

How's that "Hope" and "Change" workin' out for ya?

posted by Hugh Everett

huge drop
One hell of a free fall.
free fall

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One of the best indicators of the societal impact of a recession is to measure the percentage drop in employment, and the length of time it takes for employment to return to pre-recession levels.

By this measurement, the current recession is looking mighty scary. It is deep, long lasting, and there’s no turnaround in sight.

Barack Obama has been doing a great job of giving trillions of dollars to failed financial institutions and failed auto manufacturers and failed alternative energy sources. He is working hard to ensure survival of the weakest, but that’s not the way the Free Market is supposed to work.

None of this "stimulus" is stimulating the economy or creating jobs. The voters are starting to feel real pain.

With only 485 days until the 2010 midterm election, the clock is ticking. The whole world is watching.

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 Display:
How's that "Hope" and "Change" workin' out for ya? | 91 comments (91 topical, 0 hidden)
A better question (5.00 / 6)
How's that new username workin' out for ya?

by ihavenobias on 07/05/2009 06:40:45 PM EST

If KenTX admits to his new sockpuppet (5.00 / 1)
Why did he make it in the first place?

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/05/2009 10:48:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Not even God knows why (4.20 / 3)
Why did he make it in the first place?

We never asked Ken about his reasoning for doing stupid shit in the past. Why start now?

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 10:03:09 AM EST

[ Parent ]
low ratings? (1.00 / 1)
fresh start? I blame it, like all things, on the Bulgarians.

by tiggerporn on 07/06/2009 03:39:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
tough crowd (none / 0)

"The eyelid is a joke"

by richardshort2001 on 07/09/2009 01:28:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
KenTX? (2.33 / 1)

by tiggerporn on 07/05/2009 06:42:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hi Ken, how's that sock & puppet (5.00 / 4)

workin for ya?

I hope you realize that your not fooling anyone. It is hard to disguise your disdain and hatred for the TYT community. People tend to lose restraint over time so any attempt to claim otherwise will ring pretty hollow.

I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish other than tarnishing Dr Everett's name further. As I understand it he was know as

“ egocentric, brilliant, innovative, slippery, untrustworthy,probably alcoholic individual.”

as described by his coworkers. On second thought, maybe it fits.

One more point, your were ranting about OHK and the "identity" thing again. You indicated that I (and others) just stood idly by blah blah blah, inferring that I was biased somehow.

Believe it or not...I don't read every post, or blog, particularly yours, unless the subject interests me. I missed the whole sordid affair that led to this infantile behavior and pissing contest between you ,OHK and others. If I had I would have openly said outing wasn't cool. I have done it in the past.

When I relised that Hugh was you, for  a brief moment I was hopeful that with a new identity you could come up with some new ideas (other than reposting paraphrased RNC talking points). Unfortunately I think your tone and demeanor as "Hugh" belies any claim you want to have a civil discussion. That's obviously not your goal.

So, enjoy your new identity. Not that it matters in the big scheme of things, I won't be replying to any of your future blogs or posts as "Hugh."

 

"Freedom is important to Republicans as long as someone else pays for it on the battlefield and on April 15th."

by MRFred on 07/05/2009 07:15:54 PM EST

The TYT "community" (2.60 / 4)
OneHitKill attacked my father, at a time when he is in poor health. In addition, he routinely posts my personal information on this board. Curiously, the only people who seem to care are Star and bobo. In recent weeks, EveningStar's stock has jumped 300 percent by my accounting, because of his belief in fair play. Outside of those guys (and Chris,Tim and Spencer), I guess I'm not terribly impressed with the current make-up of the TYT "community". If the TYT "community" is unable to counter the straightforward, simple facts presented at the top of this thread, how is that my problem? That's what has baffled me for years. If 100 liberals are unable to defeat the position of a lone conservative, who's fault is that?

by Hugh Everett on 07/05/2009 07:52:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Want some cheese with that whine? (5.00 / 2)
"attacked my father, at a time when he is in poor health"

Your fault for bringing it up in the first place. If you didn't go out of your way here to be such a constant ass, people wouldn't use things like that against you.

"he routinely posts my personal information on this board"

As you have done as well.

"I'm not terribly impressed with the current make-up of the TYT"
 
Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

"If 100 liberals are unable to defeat the position of a lone conservative, who's fault is that?"
 
This is your pattern; you post a talking point, it gets refuted. You post the same talking point. It gets refuted again. Lather, rise, repeat. That's delusional, not the same as having a valid POV.

P.S. I guess you've given up pretending, so why the sockpuppet in the first place?

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/05/2009 10:39:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
memo from me to you (1.80 / 3)
As you can see from this thread, my strategy is constantly evolving.

I want to thank you for participating with your input. You helped me increase the comment count.

Have a nice day.

by Hugh Everett on 07/05/2009 11:52:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'll help as well (5.00 / 1)
see if you can beat my 91

It seems you've gotten more than halfway there, and the only way to beat 91 is to say something inflammatory.  

That excludes, of course, the posts of mrfred, who gets by without posting anything inflammatory and still manages to get over a hundred comments.

by birdboy1 on 07/06/2009 12:44:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I know KenTX had hundreds (5.00 / 2)
and hundreds
and hundreds of comments on his

But of course you aren't another sockpuppet of ken's are you?

by birdboy1 on 07/06/2009 12:47:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Kill 'em with kindness. (2.60 / 3)
That's the new strategy, and its working.

1. Pick an irrefutable topic. (The Obama Economy is in shambles.)
2. Provide graphics that are impossible to dispute.
3. Ignore personal attacks from Robrob, CD, and Jesse.
4. Overwhelm them with facts, logic, reason.
5. Be nice to Birdy, Star, Chris, Spencer, etc.
6. Marginalize the "mean people".
7. Be the nicest, sweetest, kindest, cutest participant on the board.

by Hugh Everett on 07/06/2009 12:57:09 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You know what's wrong with that (5.00 / 2)
You know that the "irrefutable topic" is slanted to display less of the truth than would be ideal.

You know that Robrob, CD, and OHK know how to refute your points just as well as anyone else.

You know that most of the time you are the one with the personal attacks

You know that your "facts, logic, reason" consist of showing everyone else your alternate version of reality.

and you know that with your condescending attitude, you're far from the nicest, sweetest, kindest, or cutest here.

You know that, I know it, and everyone else knows it.  But I'm getting too tired to tell you that we know it.  I'm just going to leave it to you to correct yourself and regain a little bit of credibility.

by birdboy1 on 07/06/2009 06:26:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You helped me increase the comment count. (none / 0)
So?

Does that make up for the lack of attention you got from your father or what?

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/06/2009 09:51:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Don't blame me for your meltdown (5.00 / 5)
OneHitKill attacked my father, at a time when he is in poor health. In addition, he routinely posts my personal information on this board.

Yeah, I am totally out to get you and your sick dad. Run and hide, you wannabe victim.

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 10:06:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Defeat? (5.00 / 4)

If 100 liberals are unable to defeat the position of a lone conservative, who's fault is that?

This statement is revealing.   The closest thing I can think of that anyone could accomplish here that might be called "winning" would be to bring someone who doesn't agree with them over to their point of view through reason and logic.  Have you accomplished this here?   Who in the hell is ever going to walk away and say, "Oh my gosh, you defeated me".   It ain't gonna' happen.

The word "defeat" in this context is silly and I can't help but roll my eyes at this kind of bravado.   It isn't a zero-sum game.  Stop thinking in terms of defeating and start thinking in terms of convincing.   I used to argue long into the night with a conservative intellectual type.   I usually thought he was wrong and he usually thought I was wrong but every once in a great while he would cause me to change my mind, and every once in a great while I could get him to change his.   It was what made it worth while.  Neither of us ever thought of it as a "defeat" to find new understanding.

by bfaul on 07/06/2009 05:14:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
De-feet... (5.00 / 1)
I guess what he means is defeat in a mission-accomplished kind of way...

by eborujion on 07/06/2009 06:08:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dafoot (1.80 / 3)

Neither of us ever thought of it as a "defeat" to find new understanding

That's your mistake. Huge isn't interested in that. Never has been. I suspect it comes from a childhood where he fought off siblings (and pets) for attention.

If you haven't guessed by now, the pets won.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 06:19:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Excellent post. (1.80 / 2)
But please allow me to emphasize that I used the phrase "defeat the position".

That's what debaters try to do: defeat the position of the other guy.

My stated position in this thread is that Obama's economic policies are not having the intended effect in terms of recovery.

You might disagree with that position, and you are cordially invited to defeat that position with your own set of facts.

Thank you for participating in this thread.

by Hugh Everett on 07/07/2009 11:05:44 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Excellent Condescension Sparky (1.80 / 3)

with your own set of facts.

yeah bfaul, that means make shit up , quote out of context or plagiarize some obscure op-ed piece somewhere.

Debater? You? You condescending ass, you don't know shit about debate. You even summarized what a debate is all about incorrectly.

Oh I get it, defeat the position of the other guy with a string of insults, falsehoods and half-truths. Even now you fall back on the old ad hominem ie your favorite thing about liberals. It wont be long now until a flood of Limbaughisms comes spewing forth across the fruited plain.

Your "stated" position doesn't exist in your opening. You 'position" in the blog  is just a tired old rehash of paraphrased Fox talking points, unsubstantiated charges made to look like serious discussion, but loaded with innuendo and half truths.

What a joke you are. Debate that.

 

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/07/2009 12:30:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]
sigh. (4.00 / 3)
what straight forward facts. you quote some statistics taken out of context. you imply it's obama's fault when really the past 3 (i guess more realistically 4) administrations all contributed to this recession. you somehow think 1 president can fix all of that in a few months? you think obama is some sort of miracle child who's parents are a combination of super man, jesus, wonder woman, and xenu? give me a break. you're just spouting off rhetoric. now when i first joined i read a blog you wrote about some guy who was posting your personal info. apparently you were giving your side of the story and how the other guy was stalking you or something. i agreed with you in that regard. but really this post of your is rather retarded.

it's true the recession looks deep and a turn around is probably far away. but you ignored what caused the recession. or did the fact that the recession hit years before obama took office miss you? employment rates were going down halfway through bushes second term. remember dick cheney on tv talking about sending money to EVERYONE? and he did, how'd that work out? oh yea it didn't do jack. you say obama is great at giving trillions to failed financial institutions, i agree, bush wanted the same thing, i was against it then and i'm against it now. there's no reason to bail out investment banks or investment insurance (AIG) companies. but is that obama's fault? no, it's the fault of many past administrations that opened the door for ridiculous deregulations of the financial industry.

the next time you write a blog and try to appear smart in your criticism why dont you take a look at the whole, instead of just a part. to put it in the form of a cliche` you missed the forest for a tree. that's right tree not even trees, that's how narrow your post is.

by kingbane on 07/05/2009 08:17:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Boo fucking hoo (3.20 / 4)
after all the gay bashing, baiting, incediary hateful shit you have posted . Who really gives a shit who you like or dont like?

Lets see

KenTX      5
bobo1     5

Thats 2

As far as EveningStars stock. He has always been good standing.  He sure as hell does not need your approval nor does anyone else.

You dont like the current TYT community?  Then GO  get the fuck off the blog and find something else to do .

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 07/05/2009 08:51:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
How sad, how pathetic; all Ken (2.40 / 3)

 

OneHitKill attacked my father, at a time when he is in poor health.

Does your dad read TYT? I doubt it.

If I was you I would be embarrassed to let my father read the swill you post. He would know what a liar you are.

On second though all of you idiocy has to come from somewhere. I'll wager you and pop sat around the breakfast table ( a card table covered in newspaper) in the single wide and talked about the uppity " nigra's" needing to be put in their place, about all the "communists" running the colleges, why the National Guard should have shot many more kids at Kent state , they" deserved it "and his admonition to you" Jesus son, the beaners are takin over Texaaas you got to get edukated".

When the subject of serving your country came up you ran from the trailer like a little girl. Now your a big tough 'conservative", a glorified salesman no less,  being brave with other peoples courage.

Pathetic. With your resume of cowardice you could be Palin's running mate. At least we know Sarah is a real woman, you can't fake child birth.

 

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/07/2009 09:50:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]
OK "Sunshine" (1.00 / 5)
You've posted in this forum long enough for veteran participants to recognize your identity from writing style.

This is bad karma, and it will pay poor dividends.

You need to spend your time on positive activities.

by KenTX on 07/07/2009 10:18:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yuck yuck yuck (1.80 / 3)

oh boy your are the editor of the NYT book review too?

You can not judge by style. A good writer can change on the drop of a hat. Then , of course, there is Ken:

im doing it on my blackberry driving my Escalade ( boy these are cheap)to my cattle ranch. Next to my oil wells. On the way I will stop at the GOp head quarters. Im a operative you know. dman balckberry. liberals clinton geting blowjob.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/07/2009 01:28:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Does your Mom read TYT? (1.00 / 5)
I doubt it.

Would it be polite or funny to make fun of her health condition?

Not really.

There are a bunch of old Ronald Reagan post-retirement jokes from the 1990s we could use, but that would be downright cruel.

That's one of my favorite aspects of liberals. They consider themselves good people, but they're often cruel, unaccomplished losers. Recent comments from Jesse, Robrob, and "Whipped" prove this assertion.

by Hugh Everett on 07/07/2009 11:19:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Look whose talking, Tex (1.80 / 3)

Here we go, the old sock puppet ruse. I suppose" my identity will be revealed soon" ..idiot. You couldn't recognize a writing style if it walked up and pissed on your boot. Do you think the folks here are stupid enough to fall for the same old tricks over and over again. You have done this at least 4 times I can count from the archives. You'll be the same old shithead before long. You cant help it.

You have written some of the most cruel, over the top vile crap I have ever read on this forum. What gives you the right to criticism anyone for doing what you have done for years.

Do you think using a sock puppet erases the years of abuse you have heaped on any and all TYT members. Fuck off.

Your response is MY favorite aspect conservatives" the ability to self -delude , lie and be self aggrandizing dickheads.

Game's on sparky, can you man up or will you puss out?

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/07/2009 11:36:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Whaaaaa F'ing Whaaaaa (1.80 / 3)

Poor, what's your name, "Hugh" is it?

Well Huge, I've read over your "facts". What exactly is your point?  No not the "facts" you plagiarize from Hannities blogs, I mean for existing.

What kind of game do you think this is? What is the point of your new strategy? Do you think anyone really cares about your fantasy world? You seem to be pretty impressed with yourself and want others to be impressed too. Penis enlargement should help with that problem

The only thing you have proven is that your mentally ill and a pathological liar. You are one unhappy son of a bitch to go to these lengths to blog on a not ready for prime time blog site. Be honest, this is the only place you can cut it. THE BIG BOYS WILL EAT YOU ALIVE.

I want to understand. Your new persona will only present facts and be nice. That means your old persona was a lying asshole. Newsflash. We know. Ive only been here for a day clicked a few links. Its easy to figure out who the self important deluded sociopaths are.

Finally, you picked a nic from a dead physicist known for being an asshole. That fits.  Good idea.

See ya around sweet cheeks.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 04:11:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
not a sociopath (none / 0)
We've already established that he's a narcissist.
Click here for link

by birdboy1 on 07/06/2009 08:57:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Narrcissist, smarrcissist (1.80 / 3)
That's just a fancy name for asshole. This guy lives in a fantasy world that revolves around him, like the dingleberries revolving around HisAnus.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 09:06:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Genuine question... (5.00 / 2)

Do you believe Obama created this recession?

I'm assuming you have a basic understanding of economics in which case you would understand policies and actions made at a certain point in time take a long time to trickle down, sometimes years. How long has it been again?  You're right unemployment rate is probably a good indicator and it was skyrocketing at the end of Bush's second term. Also for the past thirty years the trend in unemployment has been that every "dip" is proceeded by a lower dip whilst still moving up and down. Sort of like damped harmonic motion.

 

 

 Funny how the only dip that wasn't lower than the last was during Bush years no? How exactly do you explain that given you're blaming Obama already for this situation when he's been in office 6months and Bush had at that point been in office 7 years. Obama's plan might very well not work at all, and there's a lot I disagree with in it but there is no way you can judge how successful it's been already. You can still disagree if you like but you can't stick a fork in it, cus it aint done. If everything is still looking messed up in a year and a half than I wouldn't have much to defend but as it is...really you're just clutching at straws here.

by 0f course on 07/05/2009 08:39:46 PM EST

Genuine answer. (2.14 / 7)
Your question: "Do you believe Obama created this recession?"

My answer: It doesn't matter how it started. Economic downturns occur with the oscillating predictability of a metronome. All that matters at this point is that Obama is making the recession much worse than it needs to be.

When the country has an unemployment rate in the area of 5%, that’s considered “full employment rate”.  And that’s roughly where the unemployment rate was hovering a year ago.

Since 1945, recessions have typically lasted 18 months (or less), before the recovery began and there was a natural increase in jobs creation.

However, we’re not seeing that pattern in this recession, and the cause is directly attributable to the policies of the Obama Administration. This is a deep, long lasting decline, with no recovery in sight.

Every voter and worker in America is painfully aware that Obama has been giving boatloads of bailout money to fuck-up losers such as GM, Chrysler, AIG, CITI, BofA, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. This insanity is not creating jobs.

If the objective was to create jobs, Obama would be focusing on helping the small businesses and manufacturing companies that are the economic engine of job creation. This is not happening at all.

As more and more people continue losing jobs, there is a tidal wave of anger developing.

by Hugh Everett on 07/05/2009 11:04:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Let's see if i get this.... (5.00 / 1)

As far as I can tell you're basically saying that we have recessions a lot, it's not uncommon but this one is going to be worse purely because Obama is not handeling it properly?

Do you completely neglect to take into account that the amount of effort taken to stop a recession is directly related to the momentum it has in the first place. Is it not possible that this recession has more momentum behind it because of previous peoples mistakes? Is there any amount of screwed up the economy could be that you would give Obama more time to fix it than other recessions?

I'm interested in how you can attribute this decline specifically to the policies of the Obama administration more so than any previous administration that was in a recession.

First reports show the government has actually turned a profit on a lot of those bailouts to banks due to interest being collected. 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/ 329/story/69754.html

Hey I didn't like it either but it seems to be working in a lot of cases.

You say it's not happening what are your sources? It's easy enough to say nothing has happened yet  it's like me saying you've lost the match because you haven't scored any goals yet and it's 2 mins in. Give me some concrete proof that nothing will happen at all not just that it hasn't happened yet.

by 0f course on 07/06/2009 12:54:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Thank you for posting in this thread, (1.67 / 6)
“As far as I can tell you're basically saying that we have recessions a lot.”
Take another look at the chart. Major economic recessions occur every six years on average.

“I'm interested in how you can attribute this decline specifically to the policies of the Obama administration more so than any previous administration that was in a recession.”
You’re missing the point. Voters don’t care what caused the recession. They care what is being done to fix the economy. All they care about is the unemployment number, which is heading into double digits.

“First reports show the government has actually turned a profit on a lot of those bailouts to banks due to interest being collected.” 
That’s because Obama forced the banks to take bailout money they didn’t need and didn’t want. When they tried to quickly repay the TARP money, Obama balked. He wanted to maintain control.

“Give me some concrete proof that nothing will happen at all not just that it hasn't happened yet.”
I don’t spend time proving negatives. That’s a fool’s errand. I’m demonstrating what is actually happening. The unemployment numbers are skyrocketing while the Obama Administration is printing money and monetizing the debt.

by Hugh Everett on 07/06/2009 01:34:11 AM EST

[ Parent ]
No problem. (5.00 / 2)

I agree people shouldn't be focused about the cause of the recession right now they should be focused on trying to fix it. So why the heck won't you give Obama some time to try and fix it instead of jumping down his throat after only a few months. I know you can't wait for the the day you can say Obama has failed but you're jumping the gun here, big time.

Thank you so much for linking that article written by the Fox Business Network host. It perfectly illustrates exactly what I'm talking about.

Written on April 4th, he talks about how Obama has only taken back $340m from small banks and is leaving the TARP money in larger banks to gain control of them. Fast forward to now and Obama has taken back $68 billion already from ten major banks and even turned a profit of $1.8 billion.

Demonstrating how you run the guy into the ground before you even wait to see what happens.

  "I’m demonstrating what is actually happening."

Good for you but incase you didn't realise the Universe (primarily) follows the principle of "cause and effect". The problem is you cannot critically analyze the effect without considering the cause. If the cause of this recession was greater than previous recessions then the size and severity of this recession is going to be greater as well, clearly.

You say voters care about the unemployment number, which is probably true, what you care about is connecting that number to Obama.

by 0f course on 07/06/2009 08:06:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Tweedle Ken and Tweedle Dumb (2.20 / 5)

Major economic recessions occur every six years on average. Jesus Mary and Joseph your a Liar, recessions since the Depression have been short and average about 7 months in length Major recessions 1973 1975 Oil Embargo the 1980-1982 Oil Spike / Reagan Recession  and now. This rescession was underway for 15 months before Obama took office.

Newsflash The cause is high oil prices  and peak oil. Say don't you own a whole shitload of oil wells? No wait that's KenTX...

That’s because Obama forced the banks to take bailout money they didn’t need and didn’t want. When they tried to quickly repay the TARP money  Liar Paulson was Treasury Secretary during the Bush administration and the subject of your link. Is this one of your facts? I hope you wear one of those new Rayon ties..drool wont stain it.

The unemployment numbers are skyrocketing while the Obama Administration is printing money and monetizing the debt. Liar So Rick Santelli is an expert? Is this a "fact"? Sure he can report on commodity tarding,...no wait..theres that oil link again. What exactly is the relationship here? Let us see. I could say the unemplyment is skyrocketing while global temperature rises..and we could call it the Wingnut Global Warming Denial Recession

See ya sweet checks...

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 04:53:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A couple points A Few Points to your Logic (none / 0)

I'm interested in your logic here. You mention that the average recession period of job losses is 18 months before ANY natural job creation--well, we just hit the 1/3 mark of that "normal" period...if people understand this as common knowledge as you seem to believe, why is there this tidal wave of anger?

2nd point--"This is a deep, long, lasting decline, etc."  Again, we are 6 months into this administration, and even shorter into the timeframe that the stimulus was introduced. Any, ANY --neutral-- economist would call it absurd to be making such definitive claims so early into the recovery efforts.

It's clear you're upset about the financial institution bailout. I agree with you; I don't think taxpayer money should have gone to failed and fraudulent systems just because average people happened to be employed by those fraudulent systems.

But---you speak as if this stimulus package is the only attempt the administration has made to alleviate the matter. The new homebuyer program, the re-vamped tax structure, and the development of the investment(s) made into those alternative energy sources also play into this recovery, and those things take TIME from their implementation to achieve their desired effects.

I'll end with this---there is every chance that you are right; and that this stimulus, directing so much money in the wrong direction, was in some small or large part, the cause of a worse recession. However, that forecast you bring up now is nothing more than speculation from a rather myopic look at the national economy (i.e., one of an infant administration). This is a big-picture issue, and neither your timeframe nor your take on the scope of the matter itself (since you're only considering the bailout) is in big-picture terms. These considerations must be taken into effect before you say things like "This is a deep, long lasting decline, with no recovery in sight."

by maxwalters on 07/08/2009 05:23:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Obama's polls are dropping like a rock. (2.60 / 4)
Sadly, his poll numbers are plummeting.

Battleground states are already starting to hate his guts.

too bad


This might surprise you, but I don't think it's fair.

Obama has been excellent on killing Muslim terrorists. He kept Robt Gates as Sec Def, and maintained the course set by Bush.

He endorsed all of Bush's foreign policy initiatives.

He endorsed all of Bush actions with respect to the War on al Qaeda.

He is being meaner to detainees than Bush.

He is completely caving on Health Care.

He might have to cave on Crap & Trade.

He had to spend money to loosen up the credit market. He really didn't have a choice.

The only major disagreement I have with him is on the stimulus money that was spent on infrastructure, UAW bailout, and green energy stuff. None of that stuff was stimulative at all. He should have spent all of that money on helping small business.

by Hugh Everett on 07/09/2009 12:42:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Huge Everest ( sized asshole) Credbility Alert! (1.00 / 3)

What a fucking liar. Here is the same "blogger" that called Obama a terrorist, al Qeada supporter, socialist, communist, racist, illegal alien..among other things.

We know what you said in the past. That's because you repeated it ever few seconds like a broken record.You cant erase the old posts ken.

We know your a racist. I recall you making fun of black men being drug around behind pick up trucks, Texas style!

But since you insist you are turning over a new leaf, lets talk about that gay issues you have. As Hugh can you finally come clean on that.

Its an open "secret" on TYT

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/09/2009 02:50:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
republican leaders are out of touch (5.00 / 2)
"the voters are starting to feel real pain."

Hugh, I think you just mistakenly pointed out the republicans' biggest fault: they're not paying attention to the constituents.  The voters were feeling pain BEFORE the media started reporting the recession, and if you remember my prediction about Indiana turning blue (cough cough) it was all on the premise that the republican constituents in Indiana finally lost their jobs and they realized voting republican had been voting against their best interests because they were low/middle class workers.  Indiana is still "conservative", and they could very well flip back red in 2012 if the economy here doesn't turn around faster.  Although, I think it will stay blue, because the job loss appears to have stopped here.  The universities were on hiring freezes for 8 months up until the stimulus package got signed.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/05/2009 10:17:26 PM EST

wow... (5.00 / 2)
I accidentally typed hugh instead of ken...

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/05/2009 10:18:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You've got that right (5.00 / 2)
"By this measurement, the current recession is looking mighty scary. It is deep, long lasting, and there’s no turnaround it sight."

Bush really f-ed things up. It's going to take a while to fix it. Good thing you respect the office of the Presdient and will give him a reasonable amount of time to repair the damage done to our nation's economy by the Neo-Cons.

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/05/2009 10:47:34 PM EST

Those responsible are the loudest crtics (5.00 / 2)

By this measurement, the current recession is looking mighty scary. It is deep, long lasting, and there’s no turnaround in sight.

When the banks started to tumble last September a lot of people were talking about a possible depression.   We're still not beyond that possibility.  For eight years the politicians of both parties allowed the corporate thugs to run rampant.   The modern conservatives, it turns out, are particularly easy to buy.   They have been the ones arguing as a body for the last two decades against regulation of any kind, they set the stage for it, allowed it to happen on their watch and shouted down any opposition loudly and obnoxiously.  Many Democrats were weak and willing accomplices to be sure, but the Republican party led the charge en masse.

I would remind you that these businesses that are being propped up were run chiefly by Republicans (or corporatists, which have become essentially the same thing).  The banks, the finance companies, the automakers were headed by "free market" zealots who interpreted freedom as a license to run scams, or ignore responsibilities to the environment, to disregard regulations and even common sense business principles for the sake of short term profit.  Obama could have simply dumped them on their asses and let their companies vanish into thin air,  they certainly richly deserved it, but he has to try and salvage the millions of jobs and prevent the credit lockup that would be sure to follow.  It can't be easy to be handed such a mess by a bunch of critical fuckups whose asses you must save in order to save the whole economy.  Now these same people stand on the sidelines and scream about the evils of government intervention.   I have to give Obama credit for restraint, I would want to have them rounded up and put into a concentration camp with open corrals where the public could visit and throw rocks and other more vile things at them.  

You may as well get used to it, you're boy Bush fucked it, he blew it and everyone knows it.   He and Dick Cheney took the country further down the conservative path than anyone ever has before.   It wasn't until we finally got so close to the cliff that we could see the rock outcrops down below that everyone finally woke up and realized that the conservative "vision" ended with our guts and dreams splattered at the bottom of the abyss.  By no means have we pulled our bacon out of the fire yet, you certainly have that right, but if we do, it sure as hell won't be thanks to the Republican party.

by bfaul on 07/06/2009 10:24:12 AM EST

Obama could have done better (4.83 / 5)
in the economics department, but time only time will tell what kind of an impact Obama has had, positive or negative.

One thing is for sure, no matter how Obama reacted to this crisis, it was Bush and his administration and the republicans who created this problem to begin with. You can keep pointing to the current economic situation and use it to try and tarnish Obama's job as president, but you are only seriously fooling yourself by doing that.

I still have hope, I hope that republicans and conservatives and even democrats get a clue and stop being "pro corporate" and start making laws that make sense with checks and balances that stop the corruption and legal stealing of funds. Its white collar criminals who should get the most jail time, not drug offenders.

by Smokin on 07/05/2009 06:52:40 PM EST

Check back in 1215 days (4.80 / 4)
So let me see if I’ve got this right. Obama advocates for “Hope and Change”, we walk into a voting booth, flip a switch, Obama is sworn in, he walks into the Whitehouse, flips a switch and bingo everything is better.


Wars are over, everyone has affordable health care, full employment, cheep and clean energy, a trustworthy government (ok scratch that last one).


The point is we must move away from this 1980s attitude of “I want it now - I shouldn’t have to work for it - and I don’t want to pay for it”.


The idea of hope and change is not an event, it is a process . It took more than 8 years of a very focused effort by intelligent (aside from Bush) and dedicated people to fuck things up this badly. Obama is a pragmatic not dogmatic president. And because of that he will succeed.

by Senica on 07/05/2009 07:40:13 PM EST

thread hijacking (4.80 / 4)
I am sorry to say that this thread shows that KenTX is not solely to blame for discussion threads deteriorating into personal stuff.  I can't stand KenTX's views, and I would love to act more forcefully when people complain about him, but the "liberal regulars" really lose a lot of their argument when they antagonize KenTX personally.

I also feel crappy now that I too am contributing to the derailment of this thread.

David

by yturks on 07/06/2009 01:20:04 AM EST

Feel free to derail. (2.00 / 7)
Your sidebar analysis is always welcome.

During my sabbatical I developed a simple plan: I will host threads and maintain civility.

Nobody can accuse me of highjacking a thread if I only post in my own threads.

Nobody can accuse me of rude behavior if I always conduct myself as a gentleman.

by Hugh Everett on 07/06/2009 01:30:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I developed a simple plan (5.00 / 4)
Being polite and reasonable, what a novel concept.

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/06/2009 09:54:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It is a simple plan. (2.00 / 4)

The plan is so simple even a liberal can understand it. It always makes me happy when you cry after another Hugh Everett victory.

If necessary, I can be polite and reasonable. When the Stalinist rating system erases my posts I can produce a million sock puppets, just like Ken does.

As you can see from the board, my Blackberry gives me total control of this forum. I'm always logged in on  24/7.  You liberals cannot mount a reasoned argument to defeat me in debate or take away my rights by subterfuge.

I prefer not to play games with sock puppets, but the new format has made it necessary.

 

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/07/2009 01:42:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Excuses, excuses (5.00 / 6)
"I prefer not to play games with sock puppets, but the new format has made it necessary."

You are incapable of presenting your POV in a clear or articulate manner and that is somehow the website's fault?

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/08/2009 12:52:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Soul crushing (4.33 / 6)
Awww, WHAT?! This is Ken, too? Jesus, man! And to think I called you "cool."

Are you trying to ruin the entire forum? I'm asking a legitimate question. New users are liable to run screaming as soon as they find out that half the user names on the website are owned by the same brain-dead libertarian.

I thought you liked The Young Turks.

by OneHitKill on 07/08/2009 11:54:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Free Market Nics (5.00 / 4)

This is how free markets are supposed to work Ken?

GM tried this strategy in the 70's and 80'. It is called badge engineering. All products are based on the same frame with minor styling differences to maintain the illusion of a different automobile from the core Chevrolet. GM's long term decline and recent bankruptcy should demonstrate the stupidity of a strategy based on deception. The public was not fooled.

Ken/Hugh/Whip/LBJ/Leeberal/ doom/bigdave, etc,et all, the trick is to remember how you logged in.

Before me things create were none, save things Eternal, and eternal I endure.

All hope abandon ye who enter here.

by OccamsRazor on 07/08/2009 02:55:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Tragic flaw (4.20 / 3)
Ken/Hugh/Whip/LBJ/Leeberal/ doom/bigdave, etc,et all, the trick is to remember how you logged in.

It's an embarrassing, but easy mistake. I did it once myself during my transition from my old username to this one.

by OneHitKill on 07/08/2009 09:34:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You should try it. (1.80 / 3)
Seriously. There's no need for you to continue stalking and harrassing me. You've proven yourself a worthy adversary. We can be friends now. We can debate the issues as "gentlemen".

by Hugh Everett on 07/09/2009 07:08:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Just taking a page from the Ken TX playbook (1.00 / 3)

Stalking and harassing.

You have room to talk. You have attacked and harassed every TYT blogger who threatens you self awarded "king" of the blog title.

You pry for personal information then make all kinds of low life posts attempting to out that person and scare them off.

You have no ethics, no honesty and no reason for existence other than hanging on to TYT as a way to validate your sick little fantasy.

Why would I want to be your fucking friend? Get a dog, you'll have some one to talk to. Don't get one of the smarter breeds.

You'll loose those arguments too.

Getting a new nick doesn't magically make you gentleman. Just like an untimely death doesn't make Jackson the worlds greatest entertainer.

Don't let that stop you. You could try it, we'll post on the results.

How is the illegal metal trade in Texas these days?

Lots of investigations going on.

 

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/09/2009 01:21:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sabbatcal? So that what they call it now days. (1.40 / 5)

I am glad you found the right medication. Stay between the lines Ken.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 05:41:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Graph looks nice but did you check the dates? (4.50 / 2)

Wow that recession looks mighty bad....what year did it start? 2007 oh ok....but wait wasn't someone else in charge then? and wasn't he in office for nearly the next 2 years....doesn't that mean almost all of that plummeting line was contained within the Bush administration? But wait a second your post is entitled suggesting it's Obama's fault.....I'm confused.

1 + 1 = 3?

by 0f course on 07/08/2009 04:30:48 AM EST

Do you have any objective data? (4.50 / 2)

The graph is presented in a way to infer that Obama's performance has led to a rapid decline in employment. It has not. The graph shows 19 ( better resolution would help too) months since peak employment , of which 17 have been in a defined recession

It was a mistake to say the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8%, employment is a lagging indicator. Even so the recovery will have slow or little job growth. I would venture a guess that the job market has permanently contracted with no recovery to pre-recession level regarless of who is in the Whitehouse

Americans cans expect a unemployment rate of 7-9% into the foreseeable future.

A brighter outlook; a technical stock analyst would look at the curve, compare it with other data and say that the bottom will soon be reached.

Before me things create were none, save things Eternal, and eternal I endure.

All hope abandon ye who enter here.

by OccamsRazor on 07/08/2009 03:06:57 PM EST

WIth a nod to Jon (4.43 / 7)
I dunno, say, how are those Bush tax cuts workin' out for you? You remember, the ones that ruined America, ended the American Century (with a bang), bankrupted our children's children. Now with Voodoo 2.0, that's right, it squishes, it squashes, it dribbles and drips and even drools, and if you act now, it might trickle down, magically stimulating the economy so we can all, everyone of us, even us wee lil folk at the bottom of the pile, go out and spend spend spend like good lil boys and girls to do our part for the economy! Yay team! Go Bush! And then, by 2010, in Cheney's first term, they were going to inflate and magically balloon to give the super duper rich a tax holiday! Weeeeeee.

But of course, Bush couldn't have possibly figured in the cost of the misguided war (goose chase excuse for oil rights) he got us into in Iraq, I mean who could have seen that one coming (uh, hmm, maybe Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney and the board of Halliburton). It isn't like he falsified intelligence and tortured people to get the answers he wanted or something, so he could follow his voice of God telling him to take back Babylon. I mean you can't expect him to know what his crazy evil twin psychotic darkside was planning. And to be fair to both halves, he didn't include those costs in his yearly budget, which is the true hidden cost that added up to crushing the American spirit, putting out the light of freedom, extinguishing the torch of liberty, and ruining our fiscal solvency.

Besides, it wasn't like he put an industry insider like Andrew Card in charge of pushing SUV's, making sure the congress turned down CAFE standards with higher gas mileage and then to boot got into bed with big oil. I mean, geez you'd have to be psychotic or retarded to both of those things at the same time, that would add up to, you know, ruining the American economy by letting it become reliant on big expensive vehicles and then watching industrial titans like GM and Chrysler fail as a bubble economy took hold in oil futures due to speculation in the market. Of course, I mean for that to happen you'd have had to deregulate the...

Ohhhhh... Ohhhh.. I get it...

by tiggerporn on 07/05/2009 06:41:44 PM EST

No matter who "Hugh" happens to be... (1.50 / 8)
he does have a valid point.

where is all of the "Hope" and "Change" we were promised?

Who here without name calling can actually tell us objectively what good has come out of the last 6 months of the Obama Administration?

What has he done to warrant our continued praise and support?

Anyone? Anything?

Thats what I thought...

2010 cant come soon enough...

:)

by bobo1 on 07/05/2009 07:32:35 PM EST

The burdon of complaint (4.43 / 7)
Bobo, tell us specifically what changes you're expecting that haven't come yet. SPECIFICALLY, I said. You weren't thrilled about Obama's candidacy, so I struggle to think of what campaign promise he could have possibly made that you would have wanted to happen. If he is indeed failing to deliver on his campaign promises, shouldn't he be doing well in your eyes?

Or do you just complain as a reflex action? Do you go so seafood restaurants, order lobster, and then say to the waiter, "I didn't think it was going to look like a giant insect," and ask him to take it away?

2010 cant come soon enough...

I know what you mean. Personally, I can't wait for the day the republican party vanishes due to lack of interest. It won't be long now!

by OneHitKill on 07/05/2009 07:44:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ignore that tool... (5.00 / 3)

You had it right the first time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 09:18:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Jesse, (1.50 / 6)

Answer my question - what good has come out of the last 6 months?

What has he done thats even remotely good, even for your Liberal expectations?

Why havent we pulled out of Iraq?

Why are we sending more troops to Afghanistan?

Why are we dumping billions of dollars (that we are just making up out of thin air) into dying financial and manufacturing companies?

Why hasnt DADT been reversed?

Where are the Jobs from the Stimulus (Porkulus) package?

Why arent we helping the elected leaders in our own backyard (Honduras)?

Where is Aunt Zetunie? (Still in her public housing at our expense, Im sure..)

So come on Jesse - instead of blaming Bush for his mistakes, why dont you stop your whining and buck up to stand up for your guy???

We're waiting...

by bobo1 on 07/05/2009 08:02:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wait... (5.00 / 4)
aren't we pulling out of Iraq?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/th eworldnewser/2009/06/dick-c heney-worried-by-americas-p ull-back-in-iraq.html

Didn't we NEED more troops in Afghanistan for the "Iraqi style surge" that the Rightwingers said was needed to "win" Afghanistan?

http://ldspatriot.wordpress .com/2006/12/20/bush-we-nee d-more-troops/

As far as the stimulus package jobs, that money has only started to circulate in the past month, so to say it hasn't "taken effect yet" is merely stating the obvious.

http://www.medicalnewstoday .com/articles/140671.php

As far as "Hugh's" claim that "Obama" ruined the free market by throwing a pile of money into it, that was "Bush's" mistake, which Obama had to rectify by either doing "nothing", or "something".  He chose "something".

Obama's foreign policy is top notch, ESPECIALLY on situations like Honduras, as it is not absolutely clear if the Honduran President is in the right, as he was trying to change their constitution to allow for more terms, which to ME sounds more like a coup than the military stopping him from extending his terms.  Obama SHOULDN'T get involved until they work this out for themselves to the point at which they cannot contain the situation.  That's TRUE non-interventionalism that a REAL conservative would want.

"Aunt Zetune" was never put up on "taxpayer money".  It was a donation by a PERSON.

http://sayanythingblog.com/ entry/woman_gets_a_house_at _barack_obama_rally/

Attacks on right wing arguments:5

Personal attacks on right wingers:0

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/05/2009 08:32:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
forget saving gm and chrysler though (5.00 / 1)
those are pure Obama mistakes.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/05/2009 08:34:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
pretty much a good list. (5.00 / 2)
6 months and he's accomplished more then bush has in 8 years as a whole. his foreign policy alone is such a massive change it counts as at least some of the change he promised in his campaign. he's pulling out of iraq, he convinced freaking pakistan to help out in afghanistan, something bush badly needed but neglected. finally going after the guy who was behind 911 instead of someone completely unrelated.

by kingbane on 07/05/2009 09:39:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thank you, Chris... (1.50 / 6)
For at least attempting to answer my questions - Unlike some wienies up here, at least you have the huevos to stand up for your man...

I would like to address your issues point by point if I may -

1. We are in a limited pullback in Iraq, but certainly not pulling out by any measure that Obama promised during the campaign - Obama has the power to pick up and drag every last soldier tomorrow if he chose to do so, but he hasnt, and he wont. His promises of bringing our troops home has yet to even partially be fulfilled (since many of the troops leaving Iraq are heading right to Afghanistan)...

2. The LDS Patriot? You are using Mormon news sources and calling them credible? You must be joking, right Chris? Either way, i thought the point was to bring the troops home - not to send them to a place where there is zero chance of extensive change or success, such as Afghanistan or pakistan - sounds to me as if Obama is just continuing the Bush Doctorine and hoping everyone turns a blind eye...

3. The article you quote is from March of 2009, and it is now July. Tell me if Im wrong, but I still havent heard of or seen any significant stimulus money "trickling down" (no pun intended) to us here in the lower ranks - sure, AIG got theirs, GM and hrysler (and more importantly the Unions) got theirs, but where is ours, Chris? Unemployment is still skyrocketing, they are cutting essential services across the nation and we have yet to see an ounce of this "hope" we were promised - Yet we see this president take his wife on a date to NYC which cost the taxpayers 100s of thousands of dollars, we see this president paying celebrities and artists to perform at the WH and hear about the Lobster and Filet Mignon dinners they have (on our expense, again). We see Michelle and the girls turing Europe after the president has returned home, shopping at the most expensive stores and mingling with the Queen, all the while being told that we need to "tighten our belts" to ease everyones suffering - "Let them eat cake" comes to mind...

4. Obama's foreign policy? OK, since january of 2009, Iran has gone into an oppressed revolt, (while the same crooked government still controls it), honduras has had a coup and we stood by and did nothing, Israel is on the brink of launching against Iran, The Saudis are still imprisoning and executing EU journalists, and China & Russia have become fast friends in order to expunge the US Dollar from the world currency market - Chris, does this sound like good foreign policy to you? Have i left anything out?

5. Auntie Zetunie is Barrack Obama's Aunt from Kenya - your posting refers to the homeless lady that spoke at his rally and subsequently got a home - 2 totally different people, 2 totally different stories... Auntie Zetunie is an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT who lives in Boston in PUBLIC HOUSING at our expense. Barrack Obama is the head of the Executive Department of our government (you know, the one in charge of ENFORCING LAWS), yet Aunt Zetunie remains here...

Again, thanks for at least responding to my query - But please, show me where BHO has helped any of us in any way...

:)

by bobo1 on 07/05/2009 10:32:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Please... (5.00 / 2)
He's been in office all of five months. Bush had eight years to mess things up like this. It's going to take a while to set things right again.

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/05/2009 10:42:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
go do something else (5.00 / 5)
1."and he wont"  ?  What does that prove other than you have made yet another inane prediction?

2."sounds to me as if Obama is just continuing the Bush Doctorine and hoping everyone turns a blind eye..."  Yet another inane opinion that neither proves or disproves a damn thing

3. Chrysler just fired up 7 plants . I guess it tricked down to those workers.

4.have you left anything out? Of course you have.

come up with something of substance

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 07/05/2009 10:49:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Not really following (5.00 / 1)
your foreign policy logic.  Those things happening have more to do with Bush destabilizing the regions than Obama at all.  Obama's non-intervention in Iran IS ACTION, because of America's past of premature intervention into foreign affairs.  Inaction IS action, both with the economy and foreign affairs.  He has taken a more hardlined stance on Israel than Bush, and has definitely moved the Afghanistan situation towards an end that has more success against the Taliban and cooperation from Pakistani forces than in the whole of Bush's 2nd term.  When you said, Aunt "Zetune" I searched it, and assumed you were talking about "Henrietta Hughes", when you were really talking about "Zeituni Onyango".  I don't have an "Aunt Zetune", so when you say it like that, it sounds like a metaphor, or a loose reference that I definitely made a mistake on.  As far as his aunt, one would have to assume that he had NOTHING to do with her getting support from the government in the first place,  seeing as she was getting it before he had any national power.  As far as him protecting her from deportation, OF COURSE he is, because he brought her onto the national stage by proxy, so inherently it's his fault for upsetting her apple cart.  I'm sure he's not doing it on government money because he's got his own, but it would be inhumane to to do that to family and throw them under the bus.  I'm not even going to try and say he's not defending his aunt, because he probably is, as I would.  The stimulus is DEFINITELY going to have a big impact in Indiana, and the people in the universities here ALL know it, because the programs that were in question 6 months ago all got the go ahead.  At a recent Hoosiers for Higher Education meeting at the State Capital, they allocated stimulus funds while the student attendees were downstairs, so we all got to see the 15 million that was going to IU and Perdue be allocated by congress.  Here's other reports.

http://www.insideindianabus iness.com/contributors.asp? id=1408

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/05/2009 11:36:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks again, Chris... (2.00 / 7)
I will be happy to continue this discussion on my next thread. 

I want to point out to all the other participants in this forum that Chris is the ONLY one who stood up and challenged my statements with any validity - I hope all of you can learn from his example...

For all of the big talk and ideals that the TYT regulars boast to have, I find it odd that only one person actually stood up to defend the president's policies and decisions thus far. You all supported him, fought for him, campaigned for him - so where are you now?

This is why Liberalism falls in the face of adversity. Any time someone scrutinizes it with facts and logic, it falls apart...

Again, thank you Chris, for at least trying to defend your beliefs...

:)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 02:35:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
It's like you never came back (4.20 / 4)
(My beliefs are invincible; that's why I don't have to defend them.)

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 09:40:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
foreign policy say what? (none / 0)
http://www.foxnews.com/poli tics/2009/07/06/russia-coop eration-afghanistan-shows-d egree-turn/

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/06/2009 09:54:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A couple more points (none / 0)

Bobo, I'd like to add to Chris' argument here---some points may agree with him, others differ, but from your last 5 issues, here goes:

1.) Look, you know perfectly well that you'd be absolutely ripping on Obama if he picked up all the troops tomorrow and brought 'em home. It's like you fault him for this. No one in their right mind would do that, and he never promised that sort of scale-down in his campaign. As a military man myself, I can assure you the deployment tempo has decreased significantly with this drawdown---this is b/c of a change in tactics and strategy as well as (obviously) fewer troops. And this is even including the ones in Afghanistan.

2.) I'd hope that the source of information isn't the only thing you look at to determine the validity of that information. That being said, the LDS is invalid b/c they're a Mormon publication?? C'mon...    Anywho, I'm interested to see how you come up with the idea there's no chance of significant change or success in Afghan. or Pakistan. As he mentioned during the campaign, these are the nations from which our original enemy came (i.e., Taliban). We beat back the Taliban itself, but the root sources of terrorist activity and elements that fuel extremism remain in the region. The Bush Doctrine does not apply to Afghanistan since this area is the stronghold of those who attacked us--thus, there is no "pre-emption" about this. It is not a pre-emptive strike, it is simply a strike.

3.)  Giving 4 months for $700 billion dollars to "trickle down" seems just a tad bit myopic. Now, I'm a little conflicted here, b/c there is a level I agree with you---taxpayer money should not have been used to bail out failed/fraudulent systems simply b/c average ppl were employed by those fraudulent systems. However, it's done now, and this attitude of resignation---as if the money is gone already---has got to go, or else the pursuit of this money will cease; and that's when we're really screwed. Ppl talk about the bailout as if it's the only thing we tried to get the economy back up. We mustn't forget there are also implementations like the new homebuyer program, re-vamped tax structure, and investments in future energy sources that will take longer than FOUR MONTHS to manifest in any large-scale economy. No neutral economist in their right mind would call the recovery plan a failure OR a success at this point.

4.)  In terms of foreign policy, it seems as if you want the US to reclaim its role as the world police, in some Lone Ranger role. But this hasn't made us many friends in the past few years, and the idea of engaging other nations on the stage of the international community is where we are forced to turn. If the U.S. wants any international action to fail...no matter how benevolent or well-intended...all we have to do is act on our own. Yes, we can absolutely thank Bush for that. Matters such as Iran, Honduras, etc. are being engaged, but we're doing so via the UN, NGO's and other vectors other than just marching in. You're right in that these are all matters which deserve our attention b/c ppl are being oppressed. But if the U.S. is to become involved in every int'l injustice or revolt, we won't last very long. And if I'm not mistaken, Obama recently returned from a trip to Russia, so we'll hear soon about the results of that.

5.) Aunt Zeituni was discovered to have received a Social Security card in 2001, which gives her legal status and authorization to work. She applied for political asylum and was turned down, but had been to the U.S. multiple times since the '70s. Now, this doesn't take away from the fact she's in public housing. However, this spectre of illegal immigration, as if she's getting special treatment b/c of her relation to the President, is not based on fact.

You ask where BHO has helped us in any way, but let me pose this question: If we are so quick to assign him responsibility for our economy, where is the praise for him keeping us safe from a terrorist attack for his entire duration thus far? Why isn't THAT a big deal anymore? Why is it that the notion of our protection has suddenly fallen to second fiddle compared to--of all things--money? Just a thought...

Alright, your turn-----5 minutes, go   :)

by maxwalters on 07/08/2009 10:45:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I think you have me all wrong (5.00 / 5)
What has he done thats even remotely good, even for your Liberal expectations?

What are my "liberal expectations?" Have you paid close enough attention to me in this forum to know how I stand on ANY issue? I feel like you haven't. Isn't it possible you are taking some things for granted just because I don't agree with your nonsense -- and I let you know I don't agree?

I seem to remember you saying that he voted for Obama (although I still don't believe you voted at all). So, if that's true, you either must have believed you were doing the right thing, or you've got a masochist complex just like Ken/Hugh.

And by the way,

Why are we sending more troops to Afghanistan?

"The liberals" and I are generally in favor of this move, supergenius.

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 10:16:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
BTW English teacher... (1.50 / 6)

It is "Burden" - sheesh...

 :)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 12:12:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Your glass house is shiny and pretty (5.00 / 5)
Okay, hyphen addict.

by OneHitKill on 07/06/2009 09:41:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I prefer my tinfoil house (5.00 / 1)
I've never heard of a hyphen addict ( - )  When exactly did english teachers start caring if we used hyphens or not?  

by birdboy1 on 07/07/2009 06:59:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
It's only an issue (5.00 / 4)

if you're subbing them for periods - Like that.

by Spencer on 07/07/2009 07:04:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dot dot dot, dash dash dash (4.20 / 4)
I consider myself an over-hyphenator. It's an Achilles heel of my own. But Bobo takes hyphen abuse to a whole new level.

And he blames his Blackberry.

by OneHitKill on 07/08/2009 11:59:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Hope for a change (1.50 / 6)

What a freakin liar you are. You talk to you mother with that mouth?

When have YOU ever praised and supported Obama other than calling him a Muslim terrorist.

Here's one change you can accomplish yourself!

1. Stick your head in an oven

2. Turn on the gas

3  Hit the igniter

Not only will you lose weight but you will spread a great deal of hope around here.

Change we can believe in!

 

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 07:58:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Is this appropriate, Dave? (1.50 / 6)
Come on - is this really necessary - are you THAT insecure in your beliefs, Tiny? :(

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 08:50:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What are you complaining about Bobo (2.67 / 6)

Ken/Hugh does this sort of thing all the time.

Its just a joke..you know satire.Why shouldn't I enjoy the same rights and privileges he has?

What gives you special dispensation not to be a target of hateful insults?

Of course you could use the Stalinist rating system...but hey, you are a man of principle.Right?

Can we be friends now?

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/06/2009 09:12:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cool Whip (5.00 / 6)
Whip has a point. None of us ever complained to Dave when Ken was saying stuff like this. We took care of ourselves, like real "rugged individualists."

by OneHitKill on 07/07/2009 11:46:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I think it was a little over the line (5.00 / 1)
Its just something about jokes about telling someone to kill him/herself...

but yes, I agree that bobo shouldn't really be talking about innapropriate.

by birdboy1 on 07/07/2009 07:02:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wait a damn minute! (none / 1)

All of you regulars who sussed out "Hugh"s identity as fast as I did, can you please answer me something?

What was it in the original post under this header which brought out the instant nastiness sent his way? I don't see any personal attacks against any member here in it.

Sure, it's a wrong-headed summation of where we are and how we got here, but is it really deserving of such vitriol?

by MedfordTim on 07/08/2009 01:33:20 AM EST

Hugh Everett Essential Box Set (1.17 / 6)
Here are all the comments I've submitted to date.

Small number. Easy reading.

There are three people named OHK, Robrob, and "Whipped Topping" who want to use these posts as an excuse to make fun of my Dad's health problems.

I can't understand why I've received such harsh treatment. These folks have always been extremely gracious and hospitable to all the other conservatives who have tried to post in this forum.

by Hugh Everett on 07/08/2009 02:36:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Using sockpuppets = liar (5.00 / 4)
"Here are all the comments I've submitted to date."

You mean as your most recent sockpuppet.

Why do you need to use sockpuppets?

Could it be because you've burned all your bridges under your former names?

"make fun of my Dad's health problems"

You have awfully thin skin for a sockpuppet. How do I know your Dad actually has a health problem? And more importantly, why should I care?

"People who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." LL

by Robrob on 07/08/2009 11:58:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Your dad's a weenie (4.50 / 6)
There are three people named OHK, Robrob, and "Whipped Topping" who want to use these posts as an excuse to make fun of my Dad's health problems.

It never occurred to me to make fun of your dad until you put the notion in my head.

It's a tempting proposition, but since I have a pretty clean record right now (go ahead, show me the comments where I make fun of your stupid dad), I think I'll keep it that way.

by OneHitKill on 07/08/2009 12:04:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
liar (1.20 / 4)

listen "Hugh"  i try to present an understanding to all the assholes like you who attack me because im liberal. but conservative idiots keep bitching at me ,attacking me everywhere i go. not this time. i like tyt and plan on staying. that is why i have come out on the offensive. im your new best friend  i know your type and i never made fun of your dad dipshit. i made fun of you KEN, you and your made up web persona. you are one sick bonophone player. what makes you think the changing of you nic changes anything,you are still a fuckhead no matter what you call yourself


"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclare Lewis "and come from Texas" Whipped Topping

by Whipped Topping on 07/08/2009 09:49:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]
How's that "Hope" and "Change" workin' out for ya? | 91 comments (91 topical, 0 hidden)
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