08/08/2009 01:43:46 PM EST

Founder Of Evangelical Movement Blows Whistle On Townhall 'Protests' & More

posted by Tom Hanc

We're all aware of how corporations have come together to create an artificial movement by misinforming people and trying to scare them into a seemingly ideological movement against health insurance reform. To anyone who's paying attention, this is both sad and obvious. In fact one of the CEOs behind this mess was on the Rachel Maddow show the other night and he was very open about how they're busing people around the country.

But even here at TYT.com our resident right-wingers are making laughable posts trying to argue that what we see today actually started with the left. Unfortunately for them this new video blows an enormous hole in that nonsense.

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If that didn't put the nail in the coffin, here's another must-watch video. Do the townhallers know what they're talking about? Are they just honest citizens trying to express their concerns?

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Founder Of Evangelical Movement Blows Whistle On Townhall 'Protests' & More | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
Both sides do this, Tom... (none / 1)
Why is that so hard for you to get? Its not a matter of "Who started it?" Its a matter of "Who's doing it this time?" I continue to sit in amazement as Liberals try to usurp our freedom of speech, even if the ones doing the speaking are conservative leaning corporations. Do they have no rights in this country?

by bobo1 on 08/08/2009 02:10:39 PM EST

The "Both Sides" bullshit (none / 1)
Here is my comment from the libertarian's thread trying to equate MoveOn's anti-war movement with that of the Townhallers.

Hopefully this will explain the enormous difference, never mind the fact if you actually watch the videos I posted above (I know you didn't), you'll see that it's not "both sides" that come dangerously close to encouraging murder. It's one thing to cherry-pick a few nuts (from either side), but this clearly goes beyond that:

What is the motive behind MoveOn? Is it the same motive that the Club For Growth and Americans For Prosperity have (read:money/corporate profits)?

MoveOn does mobilize grassroots movements, and while I'm not endorsing everything they do, there's a critical point here. When they rallied against a war (that we know was based on faked intelligence, torture, that was planned prior to 9/11, etc.) it wasn't because huge corporations who profit from non-war (do they exist? What is the opposite of the Military Industrial Complex? The Peace Industrial Complex?) gave them money and LIED to them about what would happen when we went to war.

Here we have the modern day Phillip Morris busing people around the country to yell "Let Pregnant Women Smoke!", "Smoking Is Safe!", "Get Rid Of Filters!" It's pathetic. These are not ideological movements they are corporate movements. Of course in that sense I guess they do in fact represent what the Republican party now stands for, but it's pathetic that anyone calling themselves "conservative" or "libertarian" is ok with that.

by Tom Hanc on 08/08/2009 02:19:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I cant get videos... (none / 1)
Old Blackberry software - I responded to your comments on TWBAs thread, and I ask you again - Why can MoveOn speak freely, whilst its members openly "suggested" the assasination of Bush, but corporations and concerned citizens can't argue against government run health care while getting pushy with union thugs and plants? I fail to see the course in your logic, other than you saying "I'm right and you're wrong". If we are to have freedom of speech, it needs to work both ways Tom!

by bobo1 on 08/08/2009 02:41:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wait a minute (none / 0)
Blackberry? Are you Ken?

Was there a coordinated movement across the country involving enormously powerful groups with near limitless resources to promote a profit agenda that went against the interests of the people asked to join it (although they were unaware of it) and that required blatant lies and misinformation to gain support?

And were there prominent left wing talk show hosts on radio (Limbaugh) and television (Glenn Beck) egging them on and also joking and dancing around violence against politicians and others?

These are rhetorical questions that we both know the answers to.

by Tom Hanc on 08/08/2009 02:52:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sounds familiar (none / 0)
Was there a coordinated movement across the country involving enormously powerful groups with near limitless resources to promote a profit agenda that went against the interests of the people asked to join it (although they were unaware of it) and that required blatant lies and misinformation to gain support?

That sounds a lot like Obama's presidential campaign, just substitute power for profit and you've nailed it.


If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's "free."

by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsTwba on 08/08/2009 03:03:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Keep stretching (none / 0)
Maybe they'll cast you for the remake:

by Tom Hanc on 08/08/2009 03:07:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
New Rule (for you/bobo/ken/hugh same person) (none / 0)
No more comments until you watch the videos in the original post. It'll stop you from wasting our time with arguments that are debunked by the videos ahead of time.

Thanks in advance!

by Tom Hanc on 08/08/2009 03:09:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
New Rule (for you/bobo/ken/hugh same person) (none / 0)
No more comments until you watch the videos in the original post. It'll stop you from wasting our time with arguments that are debunked by the videos ahead of time.

Thanks in advance!

by Tom Hanc on 08/08/2009 03:11:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well, Bob, that's just not true (none / 0)
Democrats aren't being bussed around the country to Republican congressmens' town hall meetings with the sole purpose of disrupting them and preventing any reasonable discussion about the issues.  If you could show one single instance of that then you might have a case.  But, as usual, you're simply pulling this shit out of your ass as if you think you're making some kind of valid point.

by EveningStarNM on 08/08/2009 03:19:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No... (none / 1)
Union Thugs and favorable audiences are being planted in those Democrat town hall meetings to confront senior citizens and people expressing their thoughts, whether those thoughts are paid for or not - is that any better? Star, when your "community organizing" buddies stop registering dead people to vote and calling everyone who doesn't agree with the president "racists", then we will stop asking questions of our Democratic breteren - Actually, no, we won't. :)

by bobo1 on 08/08/2009 04:17:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Evidence, Bob, you've got to have evidence. (none / 0)
And we know that you don't have any because what you say isn't happening.  Besides, the logical conclusion of your argument is that a congressman's constituents shouldn't show up at his public events, but that it's okay if agitators who are not his constituents disrupt his meetings with his consituents.

Bob, are you incapable of understanding that it is not in the interest of people who support health care reform to disrupt these meetings?

And you also imply that communities shouldn't organize themselves in order to accomplish their common goals.

What is it, Bob?  Is it simply that you lack the intelligence it takes to follow your ideas through to their logical conclusions?

And can you provide any evidence of where someone other than the director a Republican voter registration organization was sent to jail for registration fraud?  And it would help if that person was not reported by the organization for which he was working, as ACORN has done on several occasions.  (It turns out that ACORN is a very ethical organization.)

Bob, I've just got to say it: you strike me as being particularly dishonest and unintelligent.

by EveningStarNM on 08/08/2009 05:04:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Rush, is that you? (none / 1)

http://crooksandliars.com/d avid-neiwert/rush-limbaugh- has-his-fascism-all-ba

Here's the important part of the post. 

"Actually, Limbaugh has historical references exactly reversed. "Mussolini-type stuff" involves organizing gangs of thugs on behalf of established business interests to assault and intimidate union organizers."

Follow that link for more detail about the subject from a book called, "The Anatomy of Fascism" 

Your blackberry can handle facts, right? 

 

by Badass4Peace on 08/08/2009 05:07:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
let me clarify for you bobo/hugh/KenTX (none / 0)
Conservatives on the fringe like you are suffering from "Obama Trauma." You awoke one morning to realize you were no longer the establishment and have not been able to absorb the fact. In short you are clinging to your delusions, aided and abetted by right wing radio and blogs.

 What the Town Hall mobs, the birthers tea parties (all the same group) do in aces is to bring to the forefront the mental health issues of many Americans.

Calling a Senator and leaving death threats because they aren't having a town hall meeting and you want to go and disrupt it. Does not in any way shape or form fall within the parameters of civil discourse.

Disagreeing with the President doesnt make you a racist. Being a racist makes you a racist. Thought I would clear that up for ya !

Why do conservatives want to disrupt town hall meetings?  Why cant they have an HONEST debate?

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 08/08/2009 10:21:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The difference between black and white churches (none / 0)
With the passage of slave codes in the South, the only place blacks were allowed to meet in mass and talk openly was the Black Church.  These churches served as a place of birth for the civil rights movement.  It was a place where people did not talk of killing anyone, but just a place where people voiced their opinions of wanting equality and freedom.  Their heroes are people who fought and died for equal rights.  The true principles of America were alive in the Black Church.

In the White Church, people are angry.  Obama is the anti-Christ.  Why?  Because he is black?  He doesn't have the right pedigree?  They hate everyone who isn't like them.  Jews are Christians that need to be perfected.  Muslims are evil and need to be converted.  The end of America is coming because we have a black president who nominated a latino to the Supreme Court.  All they care about is abortion and guns.  Their heroes are murderers of abortion doctors.  The only choice they want for people are the ones they demand.  No debate is necessary.  The principles of America are dead in the White Church.      

by sampson on 08/08/2009 03:26:02 PM EST

Why do Liberals not use their memories... (none / 0)
If you people will think all the way back to 1993, this happened when HillaryCare was secretly being pushed through, eventually being defeated as the terrible bill that it was - why is it a racial issue in this case? Just because Obama is black? That arguments is getting tired, and its actually perpetuating a lot of the racial tension in this country...

by bobo1 on 08/08/2009 04:30:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Actually I'm not liberal (none / 0)
I am more of a conservative than a liberal.  The reason I left the Republican Party years ago was because of the fact they became a party that brought religion into politics.  Their politcal meetings became sermons rather than a place of political debate.    

Also, there was nothing secretive about Hillary trying to push Healthcare back in 1993.  It was covered all the time by all major news outlets.  It was mainly defeated because of the backlash people had against Hillary.  People were saying we voted for her husband and not her.  That's why the bill never passed.  

As far as perpetuating racial tension, that has been the mark of the Republican Party for many years.  Because of the Great Depression, Republicans were finding it hard to get back into power.  THey were not a force for many years until they split the Democratic Party during the Civil Rights Movement.  The fact that many Republicans call Sotomayor an affirmative action appointee is further proof of their opposition to someone because of their race.  Just hear their rhetoric against Obama and Sotomayor and you will see a party that is alienating people of color.

by sampson on 08/08/2009 05:26:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well, yes and no (none / 0)
You're right that there was nothing secretive about Hillary's work.  But she did fail to include many top-flight members of Congress in the discussions.  A lot of them thought that the bill had been rammed down their throats, and they were pissed off about that.  Hillary was not nearly the politician that her husband was, and she offended many people.

But while it's true that a lot of Republicans -- and more than a few Democrats -- simply didn't like Hillary, the major opposition to the bill came from the same interests who are fighting health care reform today: the insurance companies, HMOs, and the pharmaceutical industry.

Very little has changed from then to now.  In fact, the proposals we're seeing today are very similar to what Hillary proposed.  The main things that have changed are that Hillary isn't involved in the discussion, and the right is less afraid of appearing indecent today than it was then.

by EveningStarNM on 08/08/2009 05:53:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks for posting these (none / 0)
I think they were the most important clips from her show last night, and now I can re-post on Facebook!

BTW, would any of you awesome people who have posted Rachel or Keith videos to Facebook tell me how?  They don't seem to have the super-handy drop down and share menus on their sites.  I'd like to post directly from their sites instead of YouTube.

Thanks!

by wyotransplnt on 08/08/2009 03:55:18 PM EST

Two really insightful links. (none / 1)

http://www.washingtonmonthl y.com/archives/individual/2 009_08/019398.php

an excerpt: "Most significant here is not the right-wing liars and demagogues making this stuff up but the fact that they've convinced a significant number of their followers that this stuff is true."

http://www.washingtonmonthl y.com/archives/individual/2 009_08/019412.php

an excerpt: "So why are far-right activists so apoplectic? Why would people who stand to benefit from health care reform literally take to the streets and threaten violence in opposition to legislation that will help them and their families? President Obama supports an approach to health care reform that emphasizes competition and choice, doesn't increase the deficit, and wouldn't raise middle class taxes ... and conservatives are comparing the plan to the Nazi Holocaust?" 

 

It's a good question: What is the fear all about? Oh no! A healthy, productive populace that spends its money wisely! Run for the hills! 

 

by Badass4Peace on 08/08/2009 05:17:46 PM EST

nice one (none / 0)
I think the second video was the best because that evangelical man I've seen before and he's a straight up lefty now. But the second video was more informative in my mind. Whats funni is the only rebuttal you will see from most conservatives would be "oh she looks like a dike why should we listen to her she's gonna burn in hell" or some shit like that. Don't expect this to get through to anyone...

by jdiabla on 08/08/2009 05:20:37 PM EST

The first video (none / 0)
I wouldn't dismiss the first video so quickly.

The man's background as one of the architects of the evangelical/"pro-life" movement provides some incredible insight we might not otherwise have.

by Tom Hanc on 08/08/2009 05:59:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Founder Of Evangelical Movement Blows Whistle On Townhall 'Protests' & More | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
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