Corporatists vs. Capitalists (Now with Fun AOL Poll)

When I heard the word "corporatist" a couple of years ago, I laughed. I thought what a funny, made up, liberal word. I fancy myself a die-hard capitalist, so it seemed vaguely anti-business, so I was put off by it.

Well, as it turns out, it's a great word. It perfectly describes a great majority of our politicians and the infrastructure set up to support the current corporations in the country. It is not just inaccurate to call these people and these corporations capitalists; it is in fact the exact opposite of what they are.

Capitalists believe in choice, free markets and competition. Corporatists believe in the opposite. They don't want any competition at all. They want to eliminate the competition using their power, their entrenched position and usually the politicians they've purchased. They want to capture the system and use it only for their benefit.

I don't blame them. They're trying to make a buck. And it's a hell of a lot easier making money when you don't have competition or truly free markets or consumer choice. All of these corporations would absolutely love it if they were the only choice a consumer had.

Blaming the corporations for this is a little silly. It's like blaming a man for breathing or a scorpion for stinging. That's what they do. In fact, they are legally bound to make their best effort at not just crushing the competition, but eliminating it. Lack of competition will lead to making more money (presumably for their shareholders; though realistically it winds up being for their executives these days).

As the saying goes, "Don't hate the player, hate the game."  We have to understand how this system works and then account for the abuses that are likely to arise out of it. I don't hate the scorpion for stinging but I also wouldn't put a bunch of them in my bed. And I wouldn't take kindly to someone else putting them there, either.

Politicians are very cheap to buy (and senators from smaller states are even easier to buy - great bang for your buck). So, obviously corporations are going to look to buy them so they can pass laws to kill off their competition. If you don't understand this, you're being at least a little bit dense.

You should lose significant credibility as a journalist if you're naïve enough to believe that corporations would not do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Come on, can anyone really believe that? Yet, in today's media atmosphere, saying politicians are in the back pocket of the corporate lobbyists who raise the most money for them is seen as an unacceptable comment. Anyone who challenges the system is potrayed as an outsider, fringe element who must be treated with scorn and shunned. We are told in earnest tones we must trust the corprations and not question the motives of the politicians.

The sensible approach would be to recognize the problem and figure out a way to avoid it the best we can. Money always finds a way in, but we can at least be cognizant of the issue and try to combat it as much as possible. We must do this as citizens who care about our democracy, but we must also do it as capitalists.

I believe in the capitalist system. I think it makes sense and it is attuned to human nature. People do not work to the best of their ability and take only as much as they need. They work as little as humanly possible and take as much as humanly possible. Capitalism helps to funnel these natural impulses in a positive, hopefully productive manner.

But in order to have capitalism we must have choice. If consumers do not have different companies to choose from, if the markets aren't truly free and there is no real competition, then you kill capitalism. Corporations are a natural byproduct of capitalism, but as soon as they are born they want to destroy their parent. Corporations are the Oedipus of the capitalist system.

In order for capitalism to work, they must not be allowed to succeed. We must guard capitalism jealously.

So, it is of the utmost importance that we watch politicians with a very wary eye. Campaign contributions are a tiny expense to a large corporation. And the politicians treasure them too much. It is an easy sale. So, beware of politicians receiving gifts.

The perfect example of this is the health care reform debate going on now. And perhaps there is no better example of a politician who works for his corporate overlords than Max Baucus, who has received nearly three million dollars from the health care industry.

I don't blame the health care companies. I would do the same thing in their position. In fact, it is their fiduciary responsibility to buy an important (and cheap) senator like Max Baucus (he's cheap because he comes from the small state of Montana where it is far less expensive to buy ads and crush your political competition with money they cannot possibly match).

If the health care companies can eliminate their competition, they'll make a lot more money. That is why there is so little competition among corporations in so many parts of the country now and why they are desperate to avoid the public option. They'd have to be stupid and negligent not to buy Max Baucus. He is the head of the Finance Committee and in charge of writing the most touted and awaited version of the health care bill.

I don't blame them, I blame us. How stupid and negligent are we to let that guy write this bill? The media should be treating Baucus and many of the other senators (who all get millions from the health care industry) with enormous skepticism. Instead, they are treating them as if they are honest actors who would never be affected by all that money.

They treat their concerns as if they are legitimate issues. The Republicans and the corporatist Democrats pretend to be fiscal conservatives who care about the budget when they are trying to kill the most important cost constraint in the whole bill - the public option. If you're a budget hawk, that's the last thing you'd kill, not the first. That's what keeps our costs down.

You see, these politicians betrayed their real motives in this debate (the corporatist Democrats are terrible but the Republican Party nearly in its entirety has become a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate USA). They made it crystal clear that they are not in fact conservatives or moderates or centrists or even capitalists. They are corporatists. They look out for the interests of the corporations that pay them above all else. Capitalists believe in competition. They believe it lowers costs and gives consumers better choices.

So, I would ask the media to please stop calling these politicians conservatives or even capitalists. And could you please look out for the rather obvious fact that they might not be working for us but for the people who pay them?

Of course, the media outlets might be able to better recognize this if large corporations didn't also own them. But that probably wouldn't affect their judgment either, would it?

Watch The Young Turks Here

UPDATE: Here is a review of Michael Moore's new movie "Capitalism: A Love Story" (and my defense of the capitalist system):

UPDATE: Vote in the new AOL Poll up now. "Who is more against capitalism? Michael Moore or the Republican Party?" Vote here.

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would be to increase the Top Marginal Tax Rate. Cenk, I know you always talk about how insanely high the rate was prior to Reagan (71-74% an 91% under Eisenhower), but it needs to kept in context.

We can't just generically say "wow, that sounds really high!" in an arbitrary fashion. We have to consider, for example, what the pros and cons were, not just theoretically, but in practice. And back in the Eisenhower days the top tax rate didn't kick in until *after* someone had made their first 3.2 million in today's dollars.

Let's say we had that today with a 60 or 70% top rate. Does anyone really believe that it would be difficult to find high quality, qualified and motivated people to run companies for 3 million a year (or 1 or 2 million for that matter)?  A top marginal tax rate would not only generate much needed tax revenue to fund critical programs, rebuild our infrastructure and help pay down our massive debt, but it would also discourage the rich from treating Wall Street as the world's largest casino.

Consider this: "...In 1970 the gap between the top 100 CEOs' average pay and the pay of average workers was 45 to 1 ($296,170 to $6,542), reflecting the restraints of lingering New Deal financial controls and mores. As those controls weakened, the gap increased to 127 to 1 by 1980. As deregulation, tax cuts, and the union bashing of the Reagan era took hold, the gap jumped to 321 to 1 by 1990. In 2000... the ratio of CEO pay to the average workers' pay hit an obscene level of 1,510 to 1. And then by 2006...it climbed to a whopping 1,723 to 1 ($50,877,450 to $29,529)..."

Does anyone think the increasingly outrageous pay disparity since Reagan is a coincidence? If the top marginal tax rate was higher, much less money would be dumped into short term 'ruin the company later for short term profit now' executives and instead it would be pumped back into the business. Plus it would help us avoid the increasingly dangerous bank failures and boom and bust cycles that we only see when top marginal tax rates are low, and instead we'd see steady, sustainable growth.

by Tom Hanc on 09/16/2009 02:13:23 PM EST

...was always the straw man argument by the right. Now after 30 years of reaganomics it's pretty clear which direction the wealth went. So much for trickle down economics, eh?

The original 90% tax bracket was put in place as a one size fits all stop to corruption. Since it's removal we  have one scandal after another, followed by an exodus of jobs and massive deficits.

One correction: A corporation is not intended to create short term profits for the BOD and CEO at the expense of sustainable growth and long term share holder value. That is a complete misnomer, much like the failure to distinguish between hedge fund investors and venture capitalist. Dividend and short term capitol gains tax cuts promote looting and momentum bubbles over real investment and sustainable growth.

by sisco66 on 09/16/2009 06:06:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Just keep running - it's durn well nigh impossible to keep up, but at least you won't fall too far behind.

...tried to tell you about Corporatists a year and a half ago...

Ready to believe me about Poppy and Gates, yet?

Didn't think so...sigh...

by MedfordTim on 09/16/2009 02:16:27 PM EST

Cenk hit the nail on the head with this one. The real conflict that is going on in this country is not the one that Republicans and other right wing nuts are framing it to be. It is not, as they say, a war between socialists and free market capitalists. Very few people on the left are ideologically opposed to capitalism. Why would they be inimical to a system that has provided for them as much prosperity as anyone else? We liberals are just as much for free markets as any conservative - the only difference is that liberals haven’t been seduced into thinking that the preservation of the corporations’ powers is synonymous with maintaining free market capitalism.

 
The conservatives, mainly from the “heartland” of America, but also hailing from every corner of our country, have been duped into thinking that some how they will one day get a piece of the fat pie that the corporate executives are gluttonously devouring. That is the ultimate allure of men like Rush Limbaugh and networks like Fox News. They are as adept as the most seasoned info commercial salesmen at selling an idealized vision of American, where everyone has an equal chance to be the corporate fat cat, if they give an honest effort. Of course behind all the platitudes they use to convince their conservative constituency on this idea, the true statistics show how few actually ascend the economic ladder to such lofty fiscal heights.  The chances that you will be as big as Rush Limbaugh (financial, not physically) is a fantasy that has as much likelihood of being realized as a poor urban kid’s dream that his skills as a basketball player will make him the next Michael Jordan, and that will be his ticket out of the ghetto.

 
This brings me to my problem with Cenk’s argument. He needs to understand that his criticism of the media powers for being naïve is in and of itself naïve. Its not that the media conglomerates are so credulous as to believe that conservatives and blue dog democrats are truly about free markets, and not corporatists. They know better, but the media, or at least the journalists that work for the big media networks, are themselves owned by these free market killing corporate entities. They know what they are saying is false, but they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. Hence, it is not that the media needs to learn the lesson that Cenk is trying to teach them. What is necessary is that the American population wakes up and starts to get their sources of news from other news outlets that are not monopolized by powerful corporate interests.

 
This is where the blogosphere, and Internet based news, like the YoungTurks, can make such a difference. In fact, the Internet is probably the main impetus behind why many truly progressive Congressmen got elected the last election cycle. Since the Internet is a realm that is very difficult, if next to impossible, to bring under submission, even by corporate powers, it is through this venue that the progressive movement will truly find its salvation.

 
We who are raised in the Internet age owe it to ourselves and our country to bring the elderly and those living in rural areas (the two most powerful voting blocks for Republicans and corporatists) into the 21<sup>st</sup> century by encouraging them to use the Internet and get more of their news from such sources, as opposed to the major networks. I think when these people are forced to confront their preconceived notions about liberal ideas and liberal people, by being exposed to more varied points of view, there will be an ideological shift in this country that will include not only the young, but the old as well.   &nbs p;

by lawrence louis on 09/16/2009 02:50:53 PM EST

Yeah...some of us old farts have already caught on to this Internets tubes thingy...good luck rounding up the ones not already "plugged in." Encouragement is good, though. Chocolate works well, too (not the kind with nuts!).

I wasn't going to respond, but after reading

"Since the Internet is a realm that is very difficult, if next to impossible, to bring under submission, even by corporate powers"

I felt it incumbent to point out that it hasn't really been tried yet. Wait until it gets a real stress test before thinking it can't be done. Who's in charge of deciding who receives which satellite feed or fiber optic data? May not be able to kill this beast, but I have no doubt that it could be severely wounded if the need arose - and that it would be blamed on Hackers, who would be "The Usual Suspects."

And now that there are no more analog TV signals, where will people turn if the satellites go dark? The radio? A lot of them are satellite, one way or another, too. Newspapers? Hope they kept their old typewriters in storage.

All I'm saying is make sure to keep a few hand powered ditto machines (look it up, youngster!) close at hand when the time comes that information needs to get out the old fashioned way.

May never happen...but I still carry an umbrella when it looks like rain...

(You wrote a good piece, I'm not trying to discount you in any way. Just having a little "age" fun while making the point that one shouldn't put too much faith in anything. Being prepared never hurts.)

by MedfordTim on 09/16/2009 03:29:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Since the Internet is a realm that is very difficult, if next to impossible, to bring under submission, even by corporate powers"
try telling this to Chinese people.
There are "good" arguments for the state to start censuring the internet. In Germany they used child-pornography and in America they can use the war on terror at any time they want.

The argument is simple. Jihadist propaganda on the internet is threatening America. We have to defend America. We have to block certain pages.
After the Patriot Act you can't tell me that's impossible.
When they start with terror they continue nwith child porn and then they go to communism.
Welcome to a brave new world order.

PS: I hope I haven't given ideas to theBoboformerlyknownasKen that he gives to his leaders.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/17/2009 04:40:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
There is going to be a huge attempt to regulate and control the internet. There are many in our government who would like to follow China's example on that. They may not control content, but they will try to price people like Cenk off the internet.

by mmosespt on 09/17/2009 07:53:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Well Cenk,

All I can say is that the people out there who make a disproportional amount of money who call theirselves capitalists are just the CEO wearing the capitalistic mask. They never cared about fairness, the other label fits them well. 

by m3k on 09/16/2009 08:20:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Cenk, you were right-on about the coporatists, but I must disagree with you about capitalism.  Capitalism is a system that will always go wrong because its natural outcome turns out like a game of Monopoly.  Sooner or later we end up where we are today with most wealth and power in the hands of about 5 percent of society. The people have lost control of what they thought was a democracy, but turns out to be a dictatorship run by a council of corporations.  Why else would we have a situation where 60 to 70 percent of the American people favor a Public Option, over 70 percent of doctors favor it and 4 of 5 congressional bills have a public option, but the one bill that kills the PO somehow seems to be the favored one by the Administration, the DLC and the insurance and drug industries?  I own an archaeological contract firm.  It is for-profit, but because I have a genuine interest in conducting meaningful scientific research I spend my profit to further my profession not to buy a second home in the Bahamas. I make a modest living, but I gain a rich reward in the results of my hard work.  I enjoy the freedom that a for-profit incorporation gives me to direct the goals and outcomes of my business, but my goal is not to maximize the money I put in my pocket.  What a sad country we live in, when most people think freedom means the freedom to bilk everyone else, to put as much money in their pocket as possible and to maximize their possessions. What is even more sad and pathetic is that most people in this country don't even have the opportunity to benefit from this pillaging, but yet they defend those that would, simply because they think that this behavior defines being an American. Someday maybe Americans will see that the world simply doesn't have the resources to allow capitalism to serve as the engine of economic growth. What you get is sick people who can't get proper medical care, huge numbers of people who loose their houses and their retirement plans, middle income people who are getting ripped off by the credit card industry, a natural environment that is going rapidly downhill without any apparent concern for intelligent and urgent measures to reverse the effects of global warming and a handful of people burning money like it's paper. Capitalism has an internal logic (maximization), but when this logic is played out and it guides policy we end up with a seemingly illogical and poorly adapted power structure that wastes our resources and does violence to the common good. It can't be the next step in our evolution because the World's problems are too serious to allow a bunch of pirates and gunslingers to shoot up the town.  Seriously, Cenk, do you really think that profit maximization has much of a future?  If you argue that capitalism is a good system that needs to be regulated, then you already are a socialist, whether you can accept it or not.  Welcome to the fold, comrade!

 

by Jcable on 09/16/2009 04:46:17 PM EST

so, I gotta respond: 6/5*. Right on, comrade! Capitalism is human nature, that is right, but so is killing and raping. Some human traits have to be regulated in order for our species, societies and the individuals to survive and prosper safely.

The amassing of money and power we see today is exactly how it has happened many times throughout history, when unregulated capitalism ruled. And Earth's resources won't sustain unlimited growth. I think peak capital might already have been reached or it is very close to it. Certainly the U.S. is. Why else would they invent nonsense (= get-rich-quick-bubble-schem es) like naked CDSs and Cap and Trade to artificially inflate the economy?

by eborujion on 09/16/2009 07:17:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I've learned a lot though TYT, but Cenk himself seems to be something of a slow learner. He accepts that he is naive in some regards, but each time he cheerleads for capitalism I cringe a little.

There are two problems with capitalism:

1.  It works.
2.  Unless rigorously controlled it is guaranteed eventually to consume and destroy everything, including itself.

Cenk, if you can so easily grasp the futility of the 'War on Drugs', surely you can understand the much simpler concept of the impossibility of infinite growth in a finite system?

Fortunately or otherwise the point seems likely to prove academic, as growth appears to have hit a brick wall. Or perhaps a rubber wall might be more appropriate, as capitalism and its supporters are bound to keep trying to push forward, only to be bounced back by the limits to growth. (Hey, that would make a book title!)

Chances are there will be no sustained recovery, no return to business as usual; and your dream of an ideal capitalist system will remain just that, reform or no reform.

Cenk, it might help a little if you could break free of the spell of mainstream economic thinking and try to see physical reality. Watch how those green shoots do over the next few months.

Have you asked Jesus what he thinks about Cantarell?

Or you can just cling to your current thinking as long as possible.

by Landbeyond on 09/17/2009 08:02:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Should read: '...would make a good book title!'

by Landbeyond on 09/17/2009 08:11:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"surely you can understand the much simpler concept of the impossibility of infinite growth in a finite system?"
Who says that the system is finite?
You seem to have a very primitive grasp of economy. Which is generally the problem with modern America.
Americans have to find (invent) new markets to compete on.
They can't compete with Third World countries when it comes to the costs of producing something, but they could use ingenuity and education to find new markets.
Some examples from recent decades:

Computers
Internet merchandizing/porn/platform s...
Beauty products for men
Wellness
Mobile phones (and thousands of applications)
The entertainment and education markets are nearly infinit if they are marketed correctly

Those are just from the top of my head. They all expanded the system beyond its recent borders. The system would only be infint if we would decide not to increase the amount of money in the world. Since money is worth what people believe it's worth there is no inherent problem.
The only problem is that Americans over-evaluate themselves and will soon face a terrible clash with reality.

All that said I still think that socialism is the superior system, but sadly it is not as inevitable as I would hope.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/17/2009 09:03:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
When I say 'the system is finite' I am referring to the planet and all the resources therein. These include non-renewables such as minerals, fossil fuels, 'fossil' water, and fast-disappearing habitats and species on land and in the oceans. It also covers what are effectively non-renewables like soil and ancient forests.

Hence, whether or not I 'have a very primitive grasp of economy' is irrelevant.

I didn't mention America.

Your examples of goods, services and markets all involve the consumption and eventual destruction/dissipation of elements of the physical world that cannot be replaced.

Money is an instrument employed in the economic system. It's a whole other topic and of no direct relevance to the points I made.

Economics and capitalism take no account of the impact of economic activity on the world in which we live or of its physical limitations. That is the problem; and that is what Cenk has yet to get to intellectual grips with.

by Landbeyond on 09/17/2009 04:24:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"When I say 'the system is finite' I am referring to the planet and all the resources therein. These include non-renewables such as minerals, fossil fuels, 'fossil' water, and fast-disappearing habitats and species on land and in the oceans. It also covers what are effectively non-renewables like soil and ancient forests."

The planet is growing. There is a constant surplus of energy coming from the sun. If we would exploit all the energy provided by the sun, the weather and the earth's core we could expand for several centuries. Surely long enough until we go to other planets to exploit them. It's just a question of money. It is said that the total amount of energy within the universe is constant, but it will take quite some time until we have exploited all that. Anyway, of what relavance is the physical composition of the planet, when we are talking economics?

"Your examples of goods, services and markets all involve the consumption and eventual destruction/dissipation of elements of the physical world that cannot be replaced."

Some of my examples:

(Internet) porn: Admitted there is some energy necessary to produce and watch it, but porn is a nearly infinite resource.

Wellness: I really don't understand how Yoga, fasting and other holistic meditation7diet techniques destroy the planet.

Marketing: Absolutely doesn't have to involve the destruction of resources.

Another good example, that I didn't mention before, is Green Technology. Not heard of 30 years ago but now it is enormous.

"Money is an instrument employed in the economic system. It's a whole other topic and of no direct relevance to the points I made."

As I mentioned above money is directly related to the topic, because it is the reason, that renewable energy is currently more expensive than oil and gas. That's going to change when it is necessary for capitalism to continue growing.

"Economics and capitalism take no account of the impact of economic activity on the world in which we live or of its physical limitations."

Capitalism isn't about the physical limitation, its about ideas. It's much closer related to religion than physics. As lon as people believe in capitalism and money it will work, and as long as it will work people will believe in it.
Unless something drastical is done to change it. We need a new enlightenment.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/18/2009 12:24:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
'The planet is growing.'

I guess there's the constant bombardment by meteorites, but...

'There is a constant surplus of energy coming from the sun.'

Energy = matter, but it doesn't equal the non-energy, non-renewable physical resources we depend on.  

'If we would exploit all the energy provided by the sun, the weather and the earth's core...'
 
That's rather the point, or an important part of it. We're dependent on fossil fuels, and we're at Peak Oil.

'...we could expand for several centuries.'
 
No, we couldn't, because we don't have sufficient non-energy, non-rerenewable resources.

'Surely long enough until we go to other planets to exploit them.'

Perhaps we should get through the next 6 or 12 months without economic collapse first?

'It's just a question of money.'

Money is a medium; it doesn't create physical resources.

'Anyway, of what relavance (sic) is the physical composition of the planet, when we are talking economics?'

No physical resources = no economy = no economics.

'Green' is good, but all goods, services and marketing, without exception, consume resources, and deplete them unless they rely totally on renewable resources.

'...money is directly related to the topic, because it is the reason, that renewable energy is currently more expensive than oil and gas.'
 
It's more expensive, unfortunately, for various reasons: money itself is just the expression of the difference in cost.

'Capitalism isn't about the physical limitation, its about ideas.'

It's about both.

'We need a new enlightenment.'

No argument here.

I'm sure you believe in your ideas. I strongly urge you to research Peak Oil and peak many other things. You might find your focus changing.

by Landbeyond on 09/18/2009 04:25:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
We could generate all the energy we need with renewable (renewing) resouces.
We don't do it because they are more expensive at the moment. When we run out of oil it will become more expensive than solar, wind and other energies.
When this happens we will switch.
The claim that we are dependent on oil is just a hoax to make making money easier for the establishment. Why change, when it is not necessary. When it is necessary the cororationists will change and tell the public that this change demands sacrifices from everyone. What they don't tell us is that these sacrifices will help the establishment to make more money.
Money is the god of capitalism. It is the aim of capitalists to make as much money as possible. It is also the means by which they make money. This is basic marxism supported by the current crisis.
The "good" means of production are no longer factories, but money that can be used to influence the markets to make more money. Clever capitalists have made billions through the current crisis, because they had the money to do so.
It is the job of banks to make money without producing anything and they are really good at it. The crisis helped them because they got stimulus money and will within months have much more than they had before.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/18/2009 08:08:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I'll try to keep this short.

Capitalism (while it has its uses) basically sucks.
Corporatism sucks.
Corporatist banks suck.
Bank bailouts suck.
Profiteering oil companies suck.
Corrupt, corporate-owned politicians suck.

Are we on the same page so far?

We could and should generate all or nearly all the energy we need from renewable sources, provided we had controlled the human population. This was recognised many decades ago. Experts warned again, and again, and again -- and were ignored. They are still for the most part being ignored by both the media and our 'leaders'. So now the world's economy i s dependent on oil for transport, agriculture (including the 'Green Revolution') and much besides. It shouldn't be, but it is; and it sucks.

We need to get off oil. We will never run out of oil, but the amount of cheap, energy-intensive oil available is about to start falling. That will have dire economic consequences, and will prevent us from easily scaling up adequate renewable energy sources.

We are on the brink of disaster and most people aren't even aware of it. You care about what's happening, but it's about more than economic exploitation (which is happening, and yes, it sucks).

Honestly, the best thing you can do, even at this stage, if you're not afraid of grappling with new ideas and demonstrable facts, is to make yourself Peak Oil aware.

You could do worse than start here: 

http://www.energybulletin.n et/primer

and/or here:

http://www.theoildrum.com/t ag/overview

Some people can't or won't grasp PO. It's a shocking concept. It is spreading, however, which is why Exxon sends out its minions to write articles attempting to 'debunk' it.

If you make it past the 'This can't be true!' stage I guarantee you will see the world - and the current crisis - differently.

You might even be back on here helping to educate Cenk on the subject.

Okay, so I didn't keep this short. I have no more to say about corporatists and capitalists. Good luck.

by Landbeyond on 09/18/2009 12:33:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree with you on all the things you said but one. I admitt that we may have reached Peak Oil, but I don't think it's a desaster.
We could still generate all our energy needs with renewable (I hate this misnomer) energy.
The reason we don't do it is that it is too expensive.
This will change as soon as oil becomes more expensive. Energy prices might rise for a certain time, in the transition period, but then they will come down again, because sustainable energy will be cheaper in the long run.
Capitalism just wants to exploit the current system as long as possible, until it is forced to expand by investing in sustainable energy.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/18/2009 12:48:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ah, yes, 'the transition period'. It doesn't sound too bad if you say it quickly.

To put it bluntly, 'the transition period' will probably result in your early death.

Nonsense? Then just forget about it. I don't plan on arguing the case here.

I provided two refs earlier that anyone with any interest in their or their children's future would be well-advised to check out. Here are two more.

First, an academic's interesting and quite comrehensive overview of what the world faces and why:

http://www.drmillslmu.com/p eakoil.htm

If that looks a little daunting, try listening to a recent recording of a talk given by Hyman Rickover in 1957. It illustrates what I mentioned about warnings from experts. Apparently something of a genius, Rickover is known as the father of the US nuclear submarine. He also had an incredibly clear-eyed view of the future of energy.

Here is where you can find the downloadable file (it's the first, larger one):

http://www.energybulletin.n et/audio/by/title/rickovere nergy

Giving too much attention to energy prices and the evils of capitalism will obscure the more, the much more significant reality that's hiding, as they say, in plain view.

by Landbeyond on 09/19/2009 06:19:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
79.2 percent of the American GDP is created in the service industry.
That's an industry that is usually not very energy and resource demanding.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/18/2009 10:42:44 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I first heard Janeane Garofalo use "corporatist."
I love the term. I have disconnected almost entirely from American politics because 1) it's almost completely controlled by corporations-- corporations that can even manipulate public opinion 2) Americans are fucking idiots,

by FlaccidMember on 09/16/2009 07:02:55 PM EST

a capitalist and a corporatist in today's society are 30-50 years, the willingness to dump all scruples and several digits on a bank account, as well as a yacht and a private jet. Oh, either big luck or (preferably) hereditary connections are a big asset.

by eborujion on 09/16/2009 07:24:55 PM EST

You are, in fact using "corporatist" as a special liberal word. Among the academia corporatism describes the pratice where the state thoroughly regulates corporations big and small. The pratice is manafested often times as representatives from businesses sitting down with the representatives from the state with the representatives from labor and compromises on wages and benefit. If you like the paid vacations and high wages the Europeans get, there's the way to get it. And if you haven't guessed, coproratism is adoped by the most liberal nations in the world, no it doesn't help or encourage competion just want to point out how much you were off your mark. 

 Also, the subject line was a lie. I love nothing more than to rain on other people's parade. 

by vonOhzu on 09/16/2009 07:49:56 PM EST

I am seeing the word "corporatist" being used more and more frequently to describe a politician or other person of power who argues for and advances corporate interests and positions in exchange for financial backing.

I could not care less about the definition of the word corporatism as defined in academia.

by bfaul on 09/16/2009 11:52:21 PM EST

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We ought to throw out the dictionary, and the reference books. Who needs them? The illustrious bafaul brought us vox populi. As a matter of fact, no point in writing things down all together. Just change the meaning of concepts on the whims of the populace. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how the meaning of "liberal" got to be weak on crime, weak on drug, weak on defense, wanting to tax everyone back to the stone age so the people who doesn't want to work wouldn't have to. And what of "terrorism"? or do I really need to bring up how a tactic came to be a convenient label for warmongers?

And if we should, for a moment entertain the idea of changing meaning of words in lieu of how people use these words who should get the right to dictate the definition of this particular word? Those who successfully achieved a functional compromise between the business, the state, and the labor or the people who cannot elect into office any candidate other than those who raise the most campaign fund.

Pass all the campaign financing reform you want, it's not going to do any good as long as the electorate is too stupid to operate a democracy. Considering the context, down playing the importance of academia is just what the doctor ordered don't you think?

by vonOhzu on 09/17/2009 12:41:49 AM EST

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Language is constantly evolving. 'Gay' and 'fag' are two striking examples of two words that are generally used in completely different ways.

There are countless other examples, but you knew that. You can argue that there is some downside to this, but that's about as far as you can take it.

by Tom Hanc on 09/17/2009 12:48:11 AM EST

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But the fluidity of language is determined by among others, the literacy of the populace. In most cases, language change because the people speaking it simply could not keep it the way it is. Our bars should be higher, our level of discourse needs to be higher.

by vonOhzu on 09/17/2009 01:06:42 AM EST

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At the same time I don't see any downside with the use of 'corporatist', and it has an intuitive feel to it with the use you're objecting to. If you really wanted to nitpick Cenk's choice of words, go after his relaxed use of the word 'theory'.

He makes the (incredibly) common mistake of saying theory when he should be saying hypothesis, or something along those lines. The only reason I care is because it helps feed the idiotic idea that 'evolution is just a theory'. Yes, it IS a theory, but the "just" qualifier is due to confusing theory with hypothesis.

by Tom Hanc on 09/17/2009 01:20:57 AM EST

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The word theory can be used in a scientific context or in a layman/non-scientific way. For the latter theory is defined like hypothesis is in science. It would be great if the general population would acknoledge the different concepts behind those terms, but it is no mistake to say theory when speculating about a single issue.

by eborujion on 09/17/2009 06:52:17 AM EST

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See my example of how it influences the evolution/creationism nonsense. People say "evolution is just a theory" when what they're really saying is that it's "just a hypothesis" which is incorrect.

So even though I understand your point, when you say "hey, let me run this theory by you" you're (unintentionally) undermining the credibility and meaning of "theory" which comes back to bite us. 

by Tom Hanc on 09/17/2009 12:34:54 PM EST

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I sometimes forget that most people still don't know or acknoledge the difference.

by eborujion on 09/17/2009 08:31:57 PM EST

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The meaning Cenk ascribed to the word corporatism is already included in the old definition. Maybe the negative connotation is something that liberals/progressives recently emphasized but IMO also that can be argued.

by eborujion on 09/17/2009 06:44:44 AM EST

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New meanings for words occur all the time.  It's a social phenomenon that happens as the necessity occurs.   Your railing against it won't change that.

You remind me of the Swift Boaters who complain that the term "Swift Boating" now has negative connotations because it has come to refer to a form of smearing your opponent in a political campaign by lying about and disparaging their accomplishments.   ; To that I would reply, "yes, it has".

by bfaul on 09/17/2009 09:43:48 AM EST

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I saw that Wendell Potter called the Baucus bill an "absolute gift to the health insurance industry".  That seals the deal for me.   If anyone would know, he would.

by bfaul on 09/17/2009 12:08:23 AM EST

We get back to the topic Cenk was writing about.

by Jcable on 09/17/2009 01:25:46 PM EST

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