While I understand its popular to hate religion on the internet,this was done off school hours with a private bus,it was voluntary.There is nothing unconstitutional about it,so why shouldn't he be able to?If you say he can't because he is a school official,does that mean any school official is banned from having any religion?

We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.

That said, these boys are 16 and 17 and that, in the eyes of the government is still minors.

OK so the coach wanted to take a few of the boys out for some nice conversions, but from what Cenk was saying I gathered, the Principle or some other administrator consented to the whole thing. Where do we draw the line from one teacher proselytizing off school grounds and after hours, and a school sanctioned trip? If the coach wanted to take the boys to the county fair and an admin consented to it, would it be a school sanctioned event, permission slips and the whole 9? Why be so sneaky about it?

Yes, I ask what would happen if it was a mosque or a wiccan coven or a buddhist monastery. Or something more secular, like a nudist organization? Or how about a -shock, awe- labour organization or a political party.

These children are old enough to choose their political affiliation just like they can choose their faith. See, how that works out.

Anyway, the coach's actions are super-fishy and he should be prohibited from teaching again.

Let's ask Hugh/Ken.

He played high school football.

I bet his ancestors patented  high school football.

So that would make him the leading authority on all things high school football.

Of course he should be allowed to take his team to church. If he was forcing them to go then it would be wrong but if the coach wanted to do something he felt was right, there is no need to go and punish him. Plus, if it was the students choice, then using Cenk's words "let him go!!!". I understand the coach should have asked the parents, but overall just let him go.

 -MrMustachMan

a. he asked this during school hours
b. he asked it in the capacity of a public school teacher

he was advertising a religious activity when he was being paid as a teacher

it would be different if he ran into the kids at a bar (oh right 17y olds can't drink in the US :) and asked them, but even then it's highly fishy because kids could feel presurred because they feel it might affect their grade or position in the team

and as Cenk said: what if it was a mosque or a satanic church

+ why the F would you want to go baptize a bunch of kids, the fact that he wanted to do this  should trigger an investigation into this guy

because it sounds strange to me that the coach spontaneously takes a school bus to go to a church where some of his students spontaneously get baptised.

In my former German Lutheran church , people over 14 years generally aren't baptised spontaneously. People over 14 are generally required to prove that they know what they're believing before they are baptised. But so many things are different in America, I don't know, maybe the American churches accept new members to the congregation and perform the holy sacrament of baptism to anybody.

The next thing is that I can't believe that this teacher didn't plan this in advance. After training, he suddenly realized that there is a school bus and that he could take this school bus for a trip to... a church. And - surprise, surprise - it turns out that in this church, there is a a priest who is authorized to convert them to a new faith and to baptise them.

I would totally agree with Ana if this coach had met one of his students on the streets, spontaneously had a conversation with him and then, both the coach and the student decided to go to a church, and it happened that the student got baptised. That would be the private life of two people who are old enough to decide upon religious matters.

But in this case, as far as I can see, it looks like this coach was on a religious mission and that he was misusing his authority as a government employee to make his players and his wannabe players to go to that church and to earn their master's favour.

There should be further investigations about this teacher. To me, it seems that this coach is a religious lunatic on a mission, someone who's misusing the authority that the government has given him. To me, it seems that this coach doesn't do the job that he's paid for. To me, it seems that he's trying to evangelize young boys who are focused on becoming a football star instead of doing what the taxpayer is paying him for.

The government should take this coach to Guantanamo for further investigation.

Sure the parents have a right to be upset if they thought the guy was influencing their kid in a way they don't agree with, but that's life. There are all kinds of people  influencing kids all kinds of ways. The parents need to keep parenting and the coach needs to be mindful and respectful of parents and their wishes when they entrust him to take care of them. But the simple act alone of taking them to a church on a voluntary basis is not something to stress over.

It would be wrong if he were pushing religion or favoring the catholic players over the non Catholics, or it would be wrong using school time or forcing players to worship his god. It would be wrong to go against  parent's wishes if they ask him not to do that again. He did none of these things. He has first amendment rights too and frankly there are alot worse things out there that people need to worry about than this coach.

Players on the team will feel pressure to participate because of the nature of a team.  As a public school figure this guy has no business trying to do religious conversions on students he is currently involved with, none whatsoever.

I would give the guy one single strict warning and if he did it again kick his ass out for good.

The coach definitely shouldn't get fired or anything, but it was certainly inappropriate to take those students to a church, voluntarily or otherwise, if for no other reason than it creates controversies just like this. Praying before a game is absolutely harmless. I don't even really consider that prayer, it's more like glorified hope. But if that's not allowed, then actually getting them baptized is, as Cenk would put it, beyond the bounds of reason. In retrospect, it was all harmless, no harm, no foul, but I have to agree with Jayar's point. Ask the parents, even if it's just as a courtesy. Then you have everyone on the same page and no one gets upset.

By the way, the best point of the debate was made by Cenk. If this guy had taken those players to a mosque and they came back Muslim, this would have been a much bigger story and the loudest voices would have been shouting, "No way, he can't do that!"

My issue is this: The coach cannot take his minor players anywhere without their parents’ permission, period. (okay, unless it’s an emergency) The rights of minors and church-state separation issues do not even have to come into play here.

Now I do not think he should be fired. But it needs to be made clear to him that he does not have the right to take minors anywhere behind their parents back. Not the mall, not a coffee shop, not their home, not their church. 

For one thing, some players won't go because they are not religious or believe in another religion. It's like going to a night club with some friends and you're the only one not getting in because you're not old enough. You will feel left out afterward as well. It doesn't make sense for a person with authority, the coach in this case, to take the their workers/players/colleagues to places that will exclude some people (if any) from going.

 "That baptism was absolutely fun! You should have went. Oh wait you're Jewish, never mind."

 "Gee fucking thanks."

What out of the blue he paid for a bus and said, "want to go get baptized?"  No way.  He's been talking about it and trying to convert them.  And when has he been doing this?  Obviously at practice and school.  The act of physically taking them on the bus is not the first step in this process, it's the last.

I know as a parent what I am expecting of my sons' coach is that they are teaching them; whatever sport they are playing, about team work, good sportsmanship, dedication, and responsibility.  That's an awful lot to cover in a practice without adding in their belief in God, they way that they believe in him.  So the outrage here is that some poor southern boys weren't being properly instructed in football!

Seriously though, it was unethical, highly inappropriate, and I have to believe illegal.  From what I read, he lied to the parents to get their permission, and said he was taking them to dinner to see a motivational speaker.

My family was one of three Jewish families in a small Indiana town.  I was a high school basketball player and before our sectional tournament, our coach took us to a Sunday service at a Friends Church...Quaker.  I was accustomed to the odd man out thing so it was just a "here we go again" experience. 

Even though it wasn't required, it was expected that I go.  I would have preferred I not be in a position of choice.  In other words, going to a church as part of a school team is setting-up someone for a bad experience.  I resented my coach and on other occasions, my teammates.(fellowship of christian athletes)

Face it, evangelicals and most religions can be cult-like, so if you are fine with subjecting kids to cults, I guess there's no problem.  Being one of those kids, I can tell you, you basically sit there the whole time thinking, 'These people are nuts and my coach is a dick...I hope college is better.'

"Life's rich demand creates supply in the hands of the power, the only vote that matters." --James Michael Stipe, from Begin the Begin.

This was an inappropriate use of this coach's position of power over minors. The school administration should suspend him or fire him immediately. I am Christian and cannot think of many worse ways to take the Lord's name in vain than to attempt to hold sway over other people's children (yes they are still children) by proselytizing and encouraging them join "the club" instead of allowing them to choose their own best path toward faith for themselves.

I don't blame the parents one tiny bit for being furious. I'd be looking for an attorney in a heartbeat - not to punish the coach, but to be sure the school put policies into place that guaranteed such an abuse of power never happened again in that district. And of course, it all just leads to confusion for the teens. Neither parents nor teens should have been put into this situation in the first place. The coach had no business taking them to his church or even discussing his religion with them. He was their coach - not their pastor. This was intimidation plain and simple - otherwise why were the parents not consulted?

How stupid or fanatical is this guy to think that parents shouldn't have the right to have a say in whether their child is carted off in a public school bus to join in a religious ritual in our secular country? This was not purely a matter of free choice for these team members. Of course they wanted to fit in and so followed the lead of an authority figure. I don't mind that they were baptized. I wouldn't even mind if they did it without their parents' knowledge at age 16. But that encouragement should have come from within - not from a public school teacher who makes decisions about whether or not they are able to succeed on a school sports team.

Cenk is absolutely right. If the coach had been Muslim, there would have been an army of Liberty University Law School crazies descending on this school like flies on a cow pie. It would be non-stop coverage by Fox News with Sean Hannity's eyeballs popping out and dangling in front of his face. Of course, they are going to go crazy anyway if the offended parents bring suit or demand his suspension, claiming oppression of Christians, and evidence of the rise of communism and threats to our Judeo-Christian heritage and blah blah.

Poor Jesus, what conceit is perpetuated in his name.

I may be working off of a lack of details here, but there's a good chance that the town this school was in had plenty of churches nearby. If 16/17 year old kids are old enough to make their own decisions, then let them walk into church on their own time and get baptized if they so choose.

Why the hell is their football coach rounding them up on a bus to go do it? It just sounds like he's purposefully trying to use his authority to get the kids baptized, with further evidence being that he did it secretly. A football coach or teacher has no right meddling in the personal lives of the students, be it a religious situation or otherwise.