Debates, Boycotts and TYT

The latest debacle when dealing with kenTX amply demonstrates why many of us have chosen to boycott KenTX threads and comments.

The debate challenge was a simple way of proving that the subject of the boycott has no intention of honestly debating any issue. Keep in mind, wanting to debate is his claim and his reason for participation, not mine

--I enjoy debating politics with liberals, and that's why I'm here. On the other hand, I do not enjoy trading personal insults. It's annoying, distracting, and a complete waste of my time. It's bad karma all around.

Rockulus had challenged KenTX to debate different issues at numerous times. Each time KenTX declined.

Unbeknown to Rockulus I drafted the KenTX\Rockulus debate blog. The subject I chose was Global Warming. The rules where taken form the Lincoln\Douglas debate format and modified for the web.

The debating points are politically and logically neutral and were taken form a wiki article on global warming

"The global warming controversy is in dispute regarding the nature, causes, and consequences of global warming. The disputed issues include:

  • ---The causes of increased global average air temperature, since the mid-20th century,
  • ---Is the warming trend unprecedented or within normal climatic variations,
  • ---Has humankind has contributed significantly to warming.
  • ---Is the increase wholly or partially an artifact of poor measurements.
  • ---What the consequences of global warming will be.

Of course the questions did not suit KenTX, as always, he re-framed the questions to support his point of view and started his own "debate blog"( since deleted by Dave) using claims of sock puppets and demanding the boycott be declared "officially " over as an excuse to directly avoid a open and honest debate.

His debate issue was that there is no global warming, period and that Rockulus should prove Global warming was not a hoax.

The narrow and dishonest framing of questions and discussion points is KenTXs modus operandi taken directly from the pages of Fox News operations manual.

The entire thrust of Fox and conservative talk radio and TV is to show that "conservative" ideas and opinions are superior to all other forms of reason.

Indeed they are when viewed in a narrow prism of ideology that uses its own set of facts, it own rules of logic and debate, glorifies the personal attack and demonizes the opponent.

These "conservative" methods should look familiar to you if you have been around the TYT forum for any length of time.

 

  • Method #1: Non-reporting or Creating a Non issue. A news story about rising gas prices blames regional environmental clean air standards. According to Fox News and KenTX, "some officials say environmental regulations are driving up prices by forcing fuel refiners to develop different blends." This is only partially true. The reporter does not mention other factors including the lack of refining capacity in the United States; OPEC holding back production; the simple economics of high-demand in the U.S.: speculation; poor fuel efficiency of U.S. vehicles; and the fact that even with price increases, the U.S. STILL has the lowest cost per gallon of gas in the world. The Fox News and KenTX spin was that the only reason gas prices rise is because of those liberal environmental laws.

  • Method #2: Conceptual and Defamatory Name Calling. A news story about global warming is titled "Junk Science." The first line of the newscast says: "The global warming treaty known as the Kyoto protocol is politically dead in the U.S. But the treaty's left-leaning environmental extremist supporters haven't given up their fantasy of creating a socialist global economy through controls on energy use." This report includes no scientific evidence of global warming and ends with the comment that "the junk science-fueled Kyoto protocol would be an economic suicide capsule." Sound familiar? It should, you have seen that same line of attack reposted here numerous times. The latest method is simply deny warming is happening at all,  for any reason and cite a few emails from the University of East Anglia about their particular climate model.

  • Method #3: Political Name Calling. The Fox News Channel and kenTX always makes a sharp distinction between Democrat and Republican and liberal and conservative. Fox news always identifies political party affiliations. For example, a 2004 report on Congressional hearings involving Bush administration Attorney General John Ashcroft said Democrats "accuse John Ashcroft" and "Democrats kept focus on a series of memos" which lead to a "frustrated Attorney General" who did his best to stay on topic. The newscast portrayed the Democrats attacking Ashcroft who was only trying to protect the U.S. from terrorism and was attacked by "left leaning" ie Democratic, terrorist sympathizers. I don't think I need to point out KenTX examples to the readers. 

 

--I have learned to draw pictures for liberals, and keep it simple. Do you know how fukking stupid you sound? You people need to read this and reflect upon why you hate America

 

 

 

  • Method #4: Warped Analysis. In a report about Democratic Presidential nominee John Kerry, reporter Carl Cameron's voice-over identified the public's "lagging perception in the polls that he can protect the country from bioterrorism" and the "Massachusetts Democrat as usual slammed the President for not doing enough to protect the homeland." Cameron then goes on to explain how George Bush increased the defense budget. The report then shows a poll map of states the candidates will focus on, with it clearly showing that Bush already won the election (see image above). Cameron ends the report with Vice President Dick Cheney attacking Kerry. Cameron says "Cheney slams Kerry" and "Cheney focused on Kerry's various positions on the Patriot Act." The report then shows a video of Cheney saying that Kerry takes "both sides" of important issues. This form of attack is used routinely by KenTX particularly when dealing with polls. On one hand if the issue is not going his way:
--I don't rely much on polls for accurate predictions regarding election outcomes.10/22/2006

When it does...

---It looks like the GOP might just hold on.Republicans Favored to Keep Control of US Senate, Poll.The Republicans may have trouble keeping a majority in the U.S. House of Representatives, but the latest Wall Street Journal/Zogby Interactive polls show Republicans on track to keep control of the U.S. Senate. 10/24/2006

---Try to get your tiny little brain around this Mr Fred: In a year when George Bush's approval rating is 25%; when the U.S. economy is in big trouble; when we've been tied down in a costly war for seven years; when the right track - wrong track polls are at an all time low, Barack Obama is still trailing John McCain in the national polls with 51 days until the election.KenTX on 09/14/2008

That poll was used routinely to hammer opponents and declare victory, interspersed with some insults, before the event even took place.

 

 

  • Method #5: Skewed or Nonsensical Statistics. Fox News' anchor Brit Hume said in a report that "Two hundred seventy-seven U.S. soldiers have now died in Iraq, which means that statistically speaking U.S. soldiers have less of a chance of dying from all causes in Iraq than citizens have of being murdered in California, which is roughly the same geographical size. The most recent statistics indicate California has more than 2300 homicides each year, which means about 6.6 murders each day. Meanwhile, U.S. troops have been in Iraq for 160 days, which means they're incurring about 1.7 deaths, including illness and accidents each day." Not only is this report silly and illogical, but does not take into account the populations of California versus U.S. soldiers in Iraq. On a per capita basis, these statistics make no sense. Ken routinely makes such outlandish comparisons using graphs and statistic out of context to reach "conservative" conclusions. For example, GOP tax cuts and spending always result in jobs, growth and, counter intuitively ,a lower deficit. Democratic tax cuts and spending only result in deficits and more "welfare bums."

  • Method #6: Unflattering Images. When choosing pictures and video, Fox News and kenTX chooses ones to serve their needs. Ken will post pictures in his blogs purposely designed to inflame and insult.
  • I really don't need many examples. Here's one from a recent race baiting blog that was deleted by Dave.

  • Method 7: Inflating The Meaning of Media Ratings Fox and ken routinely claim that conservative ideas are the predominate philosophy in the US by quoting unrelated TV ratings as "proof". Facts are different. Fox claims 2-4 million viewers daily. Compare this number with the 19 + million that watch or listen  other forms of broadcast news, not counting the internet . Even so those numbers only prove that the media rated have an approximate number of viewers, not that the viewers all agree 100% with what is being broadcast.

 

The boycott is still in effect, the organizers have told me they have no intention of playing games with KenTX again.

One reason I am so passionate about the whole affair is that people who are self-absorbed, self aggrandizing and enamored with greed and their personal comfort are the reason this country is in decline.

The very philosophy espoused by KenTX ( exaggerated personal "history" or not), wealth at all costs, is destroying the republic. He will do anything for a tax cut, say and believe anything to increase his income, even justify idiotic and nonsensical comments like this:

---America spends trillions of dollars maintaining the world’s greatest military. If we don’t use these assets to kill terrorists, why do we even have a military? 

He will do this at the expense of others even to point of death of the Republic:

---I know how good it is ( health care and insurance) because my daddies  business pays for mine. I don't give a fuck about the rest of you slobs. Its all about me me me! If the economy collapses because of health spending  driven by health insurers and GOP greed. I don't care! I have cattle, a ranch,  a big cowboy hat....a big horsey... ( unproven claims)

I for one will give no quarter to that mode of thinking, no matter where I find it.

Fox News material thanks to Ron Kaufman


< Fight against Pepsi, Cocacola, Nestle | John McCain and the lesser Dems' smear campaign >
 Display:
For some reason I found the analysis of the example of Method #4 particularly interesting.

David

by yturks on 03/17/2010 02:13:12 PM EST

Do I smell tension? 

 You should have a forum debate-1vs.1, or 2vs.2 over current events. Make them the "official" u nofficial debates. Imagine the traffic.

"The term 'national debt' is a way for the rich to con the poor into paying the tab of the former's escapades."

by bballadante on 03/17/2010 03:19:19 PM EST

...I have no idea what you had for lunch.

A debate on current events, who is the best looking of Tigers mistresses or the most effective stool softener  really isn't the point.

OUR "conservative" has no intention of debating anything or anyone honestly.

Its that simple.

by MRFred on 03/17/2010 03:58:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I wonder if kentroll payed dave to delete that thread?


by Chinese Democracy on 03/17/2010 04:02:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Any one who visits this site with any regularity has already formed an opinion on Ken. Seems to me like your wasting energy with this re-hash.

by finerbiner on 03/17/2010 04:07:34 PM EST

about the entire thing..

why did you bother posting in this thread?

Why did you even bother reading it  when you saw the topic
'

you give it a rest

the bull shit I mean


by Chinese Democracy on 03/17/2010 04:12:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
to the level of that comment. I just stated my opinion respectfully. You would do well to do the same.

by finerbiner on 03/17/2010 05:19:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
your glue

whatever you type bounces of me and sticks to you


by Chinese Democracy on 03/17/2010 07:37:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I can see why it makes you so angry when contributions to this forum start personal attacks instead of addressing the issue at hand. It obviously goes against your character. Not to worry though, you will never be bothered by me again.

by finerbiner on 03/18/2010 09:42:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
(About to find out the hard way that demanding respect on the internet never works)

by OneHitKill on 03/17/2010 10:01:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I see your point however the rehash as you put it,in my mind invokes the the first law of motion,

---An object at rest will remain at rest, and an object in motion will remain in motion, at a constant velocity unless or until outside forces act upon it.

When we understand the motives of the opposition then we are more effective in  fighting for our cause and presenting beliefs. If you will indulge me the metaphor: the "outside force "

It also irritates the living fuck out of him.

 

by MRFred on 03/17/2010 04:25:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
with most of that but the last line is hard to disagree with

by finerbiner on 03/17/2010 05:21:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I do firmly believe that the self delusional politics of the extreme right, of which Ken is one, is as surely responsible for our current mess as is the apocryphal "socialist" takeover they seem want to see behind every tree.

 

by MRFred on 03/17/2010 05:58:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]

When one lacks the mental capacity to effectively debate a point they stoop to demagoguery whether they are conservatives or liberals.  I have been on the receiving end of both so don't put this on conservatives.

Facts are facts and they will win out.

I admit I am a birther, a truther and I believe in Santa Claus.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 03/17/2010 10:14:41 PM EST

What are you? 12?

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 03/18/2010 07:58:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
As in the fat man in the red suit!  Santa Claus in White House 2012, whoooo!  Sorry about that, but I'm reminded of the Lewis Black bit on his 'Anticipation' album.  After all, who wouldn't love our president if it was the jolly fat man?

by Byronofsidius on 03/18/2010 08:51:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]

What the hell?

Man, you need to go meet some people.  Get out more.  Talk to people.  Stop watching so much Alex Jones.

Santa Claus.  Please.

 

Do you want to have a debate on that?

by Rockulus on 03/20/2010 12:04:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Alex is funny with all of his conspiracies, but when it comes to 9/11 he is spot on.  Just listen to the broadcast today by the Architects and Engineers regarding the collapse of the buildings.  Anyone with common sense can see there is a problem.

Does that mean the government did it or someone else?  The fact remains it is nearly impossible for the buildings to disintegrate and collapse on their own footprint without using explosions and a timed demolition.

Someone did it, and the Saudi stooges that participated in it were the scapegoats.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 03/20/2010 12:18:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Guys, guys, guys. I am the poster boy for the effectiveness of the KenTX boycott. Before the boycott, I wasted a lot of energy trying to re-educate Ken. Then I realized that his brain is far too old to ever change. It's like a Baby Ruth bar that's been sitting on the same store shelf for three years. You can't eat it. You can't so much as bite it. Not even a diamond jackhammer could make a dent in that fossil.

(I can say these mean things about him now because, as far as I'm concerned, he's not around anymore.)

So I joined the KenTX Boycott, permanently. And guess what I found out. It turns out that life without KenTX is virtually indistinguishable from life with KenTX. In fact, the only thing I ever got from KenTX was my time wasted.

PS, there's no way Ken has a big horsey. In Soviet Texas, big horse have you.

by OneHitKill on 03/17/2010 10:15:19 PM EST

Try to get your tiny little brain around this Mr Fred: In a year when George Bush's approval rating is 25%; when the U.S. economy is in big trouble; when we've been tied down in a costly war for seven years; when the right track - wrong track polls are at an all time low, Barack Obama is still trailing John McCain in the national polls with 51 days until the election.KenTX on 09/14/2008

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 05/07/2010 01:32:06 AM EST

 Display: